Driver Training on 22000

Jamie2k9

Why do drivers use a different braking method when stopping/slowing the 22k. When they first entered service it was simply put the brakes on and slow/stop. Over the last 2 years or so some divers have changed the way they stop the 22k.

Driver A - reves the engines and puts the breaks on and train slows more gradually.
Driver B - simply put the brakes on and stops.

Its seems to be a lot of Dublin area based ones that do option A. Of the drivers in Waterford most do option B.

To the passengers A seems the better option as its less sudden but I don't think it does any favors to the engines and it probably wasts fuel to.

Any reasons for the change

A little off topic but some of the 22's are desperately in need of maintenance, some of them are being run into the ground by the sounds of some of the sets I was on today there will be lots of breakdowns over the next few months.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why do drivers use a different braking method when stopping/slowing the 22k. When they first entered service it was simply put the brakes on and slow/stop. Over the last 2 years or so some divers have changed the way they stop the 22k.

Driver A - reves the engines and puts the breaks on and train slows more gradually.
Driver B - simply put the brakes on and stops.

Its seems to be a lot of Dublin area based ones that do option A. Of the drivers in Waterford most do option B.

To the passengers A seems the better option as its less sudden but I don't think it does any favors to the engines and it probably wasts fuel to.

Any reasons for the change

A little off topic but some of the 22's are desperately in need of maintenance, some of them are being run into the ground by the sounds of some of the sets I was on today there will be lots of breakdowns over the next few months.

Driver A wants to burn the brakes off them and wreck the engines so he can say the loco-hauled trains were better. Driver B is just doing a good job.

I hear the 22000s flying past me here and they are beginning to sound very rough but then it is probably the worst of them that is sent to Waterford.

Cookie_Monster

the engine revving could be entirely unrelated, could be one engine on the consist shutting down and another picking up to cover a bit of slack, or providing power to compressors etc

Jamie2k9

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the engine revving could be entirely unrelated, could be one engine on the consist shutting down and another picking up to cover a bit of slack, or providing power to compressors etc

Its all working engines on the train that do be revving once they start to slow down.

bikeman1

Great to hear that our relatively new trains are starting to fall apart all ready. These will have to / should last us at least another 25 - 30 years.

Re: Braking. I'm not aware of any different braking styles between drivers. I would say its the on board computer using the engine or not.

Some 29000s were like that as well. I think one set still revs up when slowwing down. I prefer the option B.

Captain Chaos

bikeman1 wrote: »

Some 29000s were like that as well. I think one set still revs up when slowwing down. I prefer the option B.

The 29s used to have dynamic or blended braking, where the engine revs up to help slow the train down and then the brakes were used at the end to slow to a stop. That feature was removed from them from around 2005 and now they just brake as normal.

The engine revving could be due to the air compressors. The same will happen with a loco if the air level drops, the engine will rev up to drive the compressors and restore air.

Maybe the driver is using the brakes too much, thus requiring the compressors to be restarted? Complete speculation on my part though.

goingnowhere

The 22000 also has a blended brake, its not in common use and can be enabled/disabled

bikeman1

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 29s used to have dynamic or blended braking, where the engine revs up to help slow the train down and then the brakes were used at the end to slow to a stop. That feature was removed from them from around 2005 and now they just brake as normal.

I was talking to a driver I know and he said it was enabled on one set again. No reason why though. I have travelled on the set twice and noted it. That was about 5 months ago. Cant remember what number it was / is.

TheBandicoot

I think it's 29x05 that has the dynamic brake turned back on(and it is extremely annoying as a passenger).

As has been said, the answer is the use of the blended brake/retarder. It's probably a driver training issue, some think it should be turned on and others don't.

I've never seen the blended brake used on the Connolly side(where 22ks are used on commuter runs), didn't know it existed.

Jamie2k9

It could be any of the above so just look out for it next time you travel on 22's.

Great to hear that our relatively new trains are starting to fall apart all ready. These will have to / should last us at least another 25 - 30 years.

A little exaggerated, a lot of the older sets are scheduled to have engine replacments but there is no money there to pay for new ones.

RonanM123

A little off topic but some of the 22's are desperately in need of maintenance, some of them are being run into the ground by the sounds of some of the sets I was on today there will be lots of breakdowns over the next few months.

Looks like you were right.

Day 1 18,15 to Westport failes near Nass and everything stops for 100 minutes until 18.30 to Galway pushed it to Newbridge.

highlydebased

Was actually just looking through an IRRS journal and came across this, related I wonder?

The 22000-class is fitted with a hydrodynamic brake utilising the engine transmission system to assist / supplement braking of the train. Due to a number of software issues this hydrodynamic brake was disconnected in 2010 and 22000-class braking became solely dependent on the wheel mounted friction brake disc / calliper system. These software issues have been resolved and the hydrodynamic brake is being reactivated throughout the fleet. The hydrodynamic brake only operates at speeds above 25-mph (40-km/h). It is understood that several high mileage 3-car ICR sets due overhaul have been temporarily stored. They have been replaced by newly commissioned ICRs.

Jamie2k9

It is understood that several high mileage 3-car ICR sets due overhaul have been temporarily stored.

There will be a lot more sets going like that but no replacments to cover for them. Have/do Irish Rail set a certain amount to overhaul stock per year and if so how many sets do they hope to do in 2013. We are heading back to the times of an unreliable train service.

The 22000-class is fitted with a hydrodynamic brake utilising the engine transmission system to assist / supplement braking of the train. Due to a number of software issues this hydrodynamic brake was disconnected in 2010 and 22000-class braking became solely dependent on the wheel mounted friction brake disc / calliper system. These software issues have been resolved and the hydrodynamic brake is being reactivated throughout the fleet. The hydrodynamic brake only operates at speeds above 25-mph (40-km/h).

That sounds like the answer.

bikeman1

Hydrodynamic brake working on set 29015 today. Travelling on it now. Quite annoying as the only time you dont have engine noise is when idling. And unlike a 22, it stays in until less than 10mph.

kingshankly

Some sets have hydrodynamic brakes not to keen on it myself never forget the first time I drove a set with it got the fright of me life thought the train was taking off.
Plus the brakes on the 22s are the best I have ever driven without a shadow of a doubt

Captain Chaos

Just curious, what if 2 sets are working together and one set has it enabled while the other does not. Is it disabled then for the 2 sets or are there restrictions as to which sets can work together depending on the brake settup? Does the train software just look after that automatically?

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Driver A wants to burn the brakes off them and wreck the engines so he can say the loco-hauled trains were better. Driver B is just doing a good job.

I hear the 22000s flying past me here and they are beginning to sound very rough but then it is probably the worst of them that is sent to Waterford.

I'm assuming that there is some form of proof for this accusation ?

Given the absence of smilies or any other marks,I have to take it as (yet another) direct attack on CIE Group STAFF,simply for being just that...CIE Staff.

As other posts have directly,and factually,answered the questions surrounding the issue,perhaps there is scope for an Enda K like apology to a group of people doing a job,about which Foggy_Lad has little knowledge of.

I'm calling (recurring) nonsense on this post....divilment,as my late mother would call it,for the sake of divilment !!!

A platform for repeatedly Levelling unsubstantiated and serious allegations against CIE Staff is surely not what Boards is about...or have I missed an update ?

foggy_lad

Are smilies now essential so people can see what is plainly obvious? What I posted was meant as humerous and not any dig at train drivers. It was aimed at those who would blow up the new rolling stock bought by irish rail in favor of the knackered old carriages and locomotives they replaced.

As usual you ignore the more important issue highlighted in the post about Waterford/Carlow getting the cast offs and damaged dirty buses and being last in line for anything from CIE.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Are smilies now essential so people can see what is plainly obvious? What I posted was meant as humerous and not any dig at train drivers. It was aimed at those who would blow up the new rolling stock bought by irish rail in favor of the knackered old carriages and locomotives they replaced.

As usual you ignore the more important issue highlighted in the post about Waterford/Carlow getting the cast offs and damaged dirty buses and being last in line for anything from CIE.

I'd suggest Foggy,with your track-record of hurling allegations at CIE Group Staff,that some form of emoticion or marker IS necessary to warn us that you are in "Humerous" mode.

This particular thread is specifically about the Braking performance of the 22K's,so I'd imagine that your Waterford/Carlow issue would merit a seperate thread,but that's for Moderation to decide I presume ?

kingshankly

The truth should never get in the way of an attack on Irish rail isn't that right foggy