Blade Runner becomes Blade Gunner **Mod Warning Read OP""

Call me Al

Why would anyone go around to stay in their boyfriend's house, get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom with everyone else in the house asleep, after an apparently pleasant evening in with their partner, and lock the bathroom door?
The girl was scared of him and scared for her safety.

Call me Al

People's perceptions and recollection of the same event are often different. That's human nature... In fact it would I think be more sinister if everyone's account was identical, and more likely that the witnesses had been discussing the events between themselves.

robinph

Call me Al wrote: »

People's perceptions and recollection of the same event are often different. That's human nature... In fact it would I think be more sinister if everyone's account was identical, and more likely that the witnesses had been discussing the events between themselves.

Which is why that stuff about who heard what when is mostly irrelevant and the judge will be taking all of that evidence with a massive pinch of salt.

The stuff about him not remembering details is not odd in the slightest, and as you just said yourself the witnesses are not all expected to have been remembering the same things so why should he be expected to remember small details about a less significant day in his life?

Him not remembering the phone code is odd, but that still isn't enough to convict someone of murder because they forgot the password for their phone.

Tasden

Call me Al wrote: »

Why would anyone go around to stay in their boyfriend's house, get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom with everyone else in the house asleep, after an apparently pleasant evening in with their partner, and lock the bathroom door?
The girl was scared of him and scared for her safety.

I lock every single bathroom door regardless of the time or who else may be in the house, its just habit.

robinph

Call me Al wrote: »

Why would anyone go around to stay in their boyfriend's house, get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom with everyone else in the house asleep, after an apparently pleasant evening in with their partner, and lock the bathroom door?
The girl was scared of him and scared for her safety.

Habit. Wouldn't be unusual to lock the door of the bathroom even when there is nobody else in the house, just one of those things that on it's own doesn't mean anything.

Just because that is different to what you might do doesn't mean anything and there is nothing sinister about it.

sopretty

I find it strange that she asked him 'Can I wear the leopard print dress?'

Tasden

sopretty wrote: »

I find it strange that she asked him 'Can I wear the leopard print dress?'

Yeah I wouldn't have used that message to illustrate a "loving" relationship, although he didn't text back with yes or no, he just said it looked good on her and to enjoy her night so maybe that's why they used it, to show that he wasn't controlling even if it seemed that way sometimes, I dunno.

One of the tweets was saying how there wasn't one "i love you", wouldn't have thought that's an indication of anything tbh.

Just heard in one of the messages she said something like "i fell in love with you and was going to tell you this weekend" or something along those lines, guessing they hadn't even gotten to that stage yet so. How long were they together?

sopretty

Also, it seemed she had to explain herself when she was at the party and her phone had no signal.

Then, was there some suggestion on his part, that they should be using twitter more? To which she replied that she didn't want to make a spectacle of them?


I dunno, sounds all very possessive to me for some reason.

sopretty

Were they only going out since November? So, 3 and a half months by the time he killed her?

Tasden

sopretty wrote: »

Also, it seemed she had to explain herself when she was at the party and her phone had no signal.

Then, was there some suggestion on his part, that they should be using twitter more? To which she replied that she didn't want to make a spectacle of them?


I dunno, sounds all very possessive to me for some reason.

I dunno, on one hand it does but then on the other if people were to go through my texts with my partner it'd be along the same lines, if one of us hadn't texted or mailed in a few days we'd apologise and explain why, and neither of us could be classed as possessive, its just a politeness thing. A lot of things can be taken out of context after the fact.

Also the fact they were only together a few months and people are questioning why there was no "i love you" texts, bit ridiculous. Sure myself and the boyfriend would never text it to each other, rarely even say it tbh.

Merkin

Am watching him giving evidence on Sky. Christ, his voice is sooooooo monotonous!

sopretty

Whoever prepared the books of evidence is going to get fired lol.

Merkin

It's chaotic

sopretty

I used to have to photocopy those sons of b*tches lol. The most annoying fiddly job ever!!!!

sopretty

Guilty as sin. So he's screaming at an intruder, Reeva is in the bathroom and runs into the toilet, slams the door shut, and doesn't feel the need to say 'Eh, it's me here ya bollix?'.
He is completely and utterly hanging himself here. (Btw - I'm watching this a little later than live, as I've paused a few times).

Gheebag

sopretty wrote: »

Guilty as sin. So he's screaming at an intruder, Reeva is in the bathroom and runs into the toilet, slams the door shut, and doesn't feel the need to say 'Eh, it's me here ya bollix?'.
He is completely and utterly hanging himself here. (Btw - I'm watching this a little later than live, as I've paused a few times).

I'm so with you on this one,totally hanging himself,give him a rope.

Tasden

Is there any chance that she, being in the toilet, assumes he's shouting at someone in their room/downstairs, and she deliberately stayed in the toilet being quiet while he dealt with the intruder?? (I dont believe this at all btw, think hes guilty, but could it be argued?) I haven't been following the trial at all but have been watching it all morning, interesting stuff.

sopretty

Tasden wrote: »

Is there any chance that she, being in the toilet, assumes he's shouting at someone in their room/downstairs, and she deliberately stayed in the toilet being quiet while he dealt with the intruder?? (I dont believe this at all btw, think hes guilty, but could it be argued?) I haven't been following the trial at all but have been watching it all morning, interesting stuff.

We'll see when he's cross-examined, whether it's picked up on.

Tasden

sopretty wrote: »

We'll see when he's cross-examined, whether it's picked up on.

When will this be?

I've gotten nothing done all morning morbidly fascinating tbh

sopretty

The other thing is, he says he whispered to Reeva to get down and call the police (presumably she didn't reply - since she was in the bathroom).
Then he starts screaming? Lol. Totally and utterly unbelievable defence.

sopretty

Tasden wrote: »

When will this be?

I've gotten nothing done all morning morbidly fascinating tbh

Cross examination won't be today anyway!

gramar

I have alwys found it impossible to believe that he did not know it was her.
The prosecution case is not that strong and there may be discrepencies
in the witness statements but his actions make no rational sense to me.

That said I think he will be found not guilty of her intentional murder but
whether he is in jail or not he will serve a life sentence for his actions.

Gheebag

Oh hes guilty alright

sopretty

Tasden wrote: »

Is there any chance that she, being in the toilet, assumes he's shouting at someone in their room/downstairs, and she deliberately stayed in the toilet being quiet while he dealt with the intruder?? (I dont believe this at all btw, think hes guilty, but could it be argued?) I haven't been following the trial at all but have been watching it all morning, interesting stuff.

I think he said that he started screaming after he heard the toilet door being slammed shut. So, that screws that one up too.

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

Guilty as sin. So he's screaming at an intruder, Reeva is in the bathroom and runs into the toilet, slams the door shut, and doesn't feel the need to say 'Eh, it's me here ya bollix?'.
He is completely and utterly hanging himself here. (Btw - I'm watching this a little later than live, as I've paused a few times).

Do you think that she did shout "it's me in here" then? If she had then surely we wouldn't be here now.

However, perfectly plausible that he shouted, hadn't checked where she was but assumed she was in bed, she heard him shout at an intruder so locks herself in the toilet for safety as she heard shouting from the bedroom direction, he hears door slam and assumes it's the intruder that he just heard in the bathroom making more noise.

If he had been shouting at an intruder then why would she then be making more noise or shouting back which would draw attention to herself? She'd most likely keep quiet as possible and hope that the toilet door would close quietly.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

Do you think that she did shout "it's me in here" then? If she had then surely we wouldn't be here now.

However, perfectly plausible that he shouted, hadn't checked where she was but assumed she was in bed, she heard him shout at an intruder so locks herself in the toilet for safety as she heard shouting from the bedroom direction, he hears door slam and assumes it's the intruder that he just heard in the bathroom making more noise.

If he had been shouting at an intruder then why would she then be making more noise or shouting back which would draw attention to herself? She'd most likely keep quiet as possible and hope that the toilet door would close quietly.

No, I don't think she shouted it's me in here. Because I don't believe a shred of his evidence. I think the woman ran for refuge to the bathroom after a massive row and he shot her in a rage.

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

The other thing is, he says he whispered to Reeva to get down and call the police (presumably she didn't reply - since she was in the bathroom).
Then he starts screaming? Lol. Totally and utterly unbelievable defence.

What is unbelievable about him whispering to the direction of the bed for her to keep quiet? And then after he's told her to keep quiet he unsurprisingly doesn't hear anything from the direction of the bed.

If she's in the bathroom then she'd not be hearing any of that to which she'd have then been able to say, "nope it's me in the bathroom, nothing to worry about" and again this wouldn't have happened.

whatstherush

sopretty wrote: »

Guilty as sin. So he's screaming at an intruder, Reeva is in the bathroom and runs into the toilet, slams the door shut, and doesn't feel the need to say 'Eh, it's me here ya bollix?'.
He is completely and utterly hanging himself here. (Btw - I'm watching this a little later than live, as I've paused a few times).

Also he pulls his gun out from underneath his bed, but doesn't bother look in the bed, which is the last place he saw Reeva, who he knew was awake, didn't bother to call out to her. What kinda horse****e is that?

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

No, I don't think she shouted it's me in here. Because I don't believe a shred of his evidence. I think the woman ran for refuge to the bathroom after a massive row and he shot her in a rage.

Yep, and the evidence for this fight is what exactly?

whatstherush

robinph wrote: »

What is unbelievable about him whispering to the direction of the bed for her to keep quiet? .

He took is gun from under the bed, are you honestly saying he could not tell if a person was in that bed

Tasden

robinph wrote: »

What is unbelievable about him whispering to the direction of the bed for her to keep quiet? And then after he's told her to keep quiet he unsurprisingly doesn't hear anything from the direction of the bed.

If she's in the bathroom then she'd not be hearing any of that to which she'd have then been able to say, "nope it's me in the bathroom, nothing to worry about" and again this wouldn't have happened.

This would've been my thinking too.

robinph

whatstherush wrote: »

Also he pulls his gun out from underneath his bed, but doesn't bother look in the bed, which is the last place he saw Reeva, who he knew was awake, didn't bother to call out to her. What kinda horse****e is that?

Did you miss the bit about the lights being off and it being very dark in the room, or that he whispered to her in bed?

whatstherush

robinph wrote: »

Yep, and the evidence for this fight is what exactly?

All the neighbors testimony. Just cause you say it's rubbish doesn't make it so

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

What is unbelievable about him whispering to the direction of the bed for her to keep quiet? And then after he's told her to keep quiet he unsurprisingly doesn't hear anything from the direction of the bed.

If she's in the bathroom then she'd not be hearing any of that to which she'd have then been able to say, "nope it's me in the bathroom, nothing to worry about" and again this wouldn't have happened.

I don't know what point you're making?

They were both awake. She wasn't asleep. How did he not hear her going to the bathroom? He was still in the same room? If my boyfriend hushed me and told me to call the guards - I'd at least ask him 'why?' Also, good point about him going for the gun under the bed, but not noticing that she wasn't still sitting up in the bed. According to his testimony, he was awake a few minutes, fixing the fans/curtains. If he could manage that, he could see what he was doing. Your eyes become accustomed to darkness very quickly. Load of crock. Completely fabricated unbelievable scéal in my opinion.

robinph

whatstherush wrote: »

He took is gun from under the bed, are you honestly saying he could not tell if a person was in that bed

Erm, yep. If he's looking at the bed from the opposite side and just see some crumpled up duvet or sheets in shadow, very easy to mistake for a person being there. Especially when that is where you expect them to be.

whatstherush

robinph wrote: »

Did you miss the bit about the lights being off and it being very dark in the room, or that he whispered to her in bed?

He could find his gun easy enough ha, and make his way round to bathroom in quick time before the scary robbers got him, but he couldn't see 5 feet in front of him, after he has been up in the dark for several minutes. The word for all this, ****ing Incredulous.

Gheebag

I think from day one,this fella has dug a hole for himself and there's no getting out of it.GUILTY.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

Erm, yep. If he's looking at the bed from the opposite side and just see some crumpled up duvet or sheets in shadow, very easy to mistake for a person being there. Especially when that is where you expect them to be.

He testified that she was sitting up in the bed when he woke up, on her ipad/iphone. If he could see her when he woke up, he'd see her when he apparently heard 'the noise'.

robinph

whatstherush wrote: »

All the neighbors testimony. Just cause you say it's rubbish doesn't make it so

That is not evidence of a fight. They have only testified to hearing some gunshots that might have been cricket bats hitting a door, and some shouting and screaming.

Think there was only one person who claimed to have heard a fight going on for a while beforehand. And all of these people were hearing things from different directions, could have been anyone having a fight in another house, or they just dreamt it.

Gheebag

I think from day one,this fella has dug a hole for himself and there's no getting out of it.GUILTY.

sopretty

Gheebag wrote: »

I think from day one,this fella has dug a hole for himself and there's no getting out of it.GUILTY.

I wouldn't be so convinced. Depends on whether the judge holds the same viewpoint as Robinph!

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

I wouldn't be so convinced. Depends on whether the judge holds the same viewpoint as Robinph!

What, that the case should be judged on the evidence and not public opinion? I'd hope so.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

What, that the case should be judged on the evidence and not public opinion? I'd hope so.

I'm seeing different evidence to you I think.

:P

Tasden

I dunno, if he genuinely feared for his and his partner's safety then he isn't gonna have his wits about him, yeah he was able to get the gun but you could argue that this was him basically in fight or flight mode and his awareness of anything else was pretty much gone.

sopretty

Tasden wrote: »

I dunno, if he genuinely feared for his and his partner's safety then he isn't gonna have his wits about him, yeah he was able to get the gun but you could argue that this was him basically in fight or flight mode and his awareness of anything else was pretty much gone.

A saner interpretation of the evidence is that his version of events are incredible. You remember the testimony given by the previous girlfriend? That, he had often awoken and heard noises, but would ALWAYS ask her whether she had heard something too, before going to investigate.

Tasden

sopretty wrote: »

A saner interpretation of the evidence is that his version of events are incredible. You remember the testimony given by the previous girlfriend? That, he had often awoken and heard noises, but would ALWAYS ask her whether she had heard something too, before going to investigate.

Like I said I haven't been watching the trial at all so only going by what I've seen today and the scenarios posters are discussing.

Personally I dont believe him, but I don't think its all that unbelievable either tbh.

sopretty

Tasden wrote: »

Like I said I haven't been watching the trial at all so only going by what I've seen today and the scenarios posters are discussing.

Personally I dont believe him, but I don't think its all that unbelievable either tbh.

Well, it's completely unbelievable to me.

Muff Richardson

robinph wrote: »

What, that the case should be judged on the evidence and not public opinion? I'd hope so.

I've the majority of your posts, simple question for you, do you believe he is innocent of the charges being brought against him?

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

I'm seeing different evidence to you I think.

:P

I think you are missing the bit about reasonable doubt and jumping to conclusions.

Everything he has said is perfectly plausible if you try and look at things without pre-judging it. The main bit that doesn't seem right to me is the forgetting his phone password, but that is not evidence of murder.

It all fits with his version of a very unfortunate sequence of events and mistaken identity resulting in her death. There isn't anything to fit with pre-meditated murder claims. Again, I in no way think he should get off. He is 100% guilty... but he is guilty of manslaughter. It is an incredibly weak claim to charge him with murder.

Tasden

robinph wrote: »

I think you are missing the bit about reasonable doubt and jumping to conclusions.

Everything he has said is perfectly plausible if you try and look at things without pre-judging it. The main bit that doesn't seem right to me is the forgetting his phone password, but that is not evidence of murder.

It all fits with his version of a very unfortunate sequence of events and mistaken identity resulting in her death. There isn't anything to fit with pre-meditated murder claims. Again, I in no way think he should get off. He is 100% guilty... but he is guilty of manslaughter. It is an incredibly weak claim to charge him with murder.

I think I get where you're coming from with the reasonable doubt. It is plausable, maybe not believable, but it could be true and that's the way I've been looking at it too, admittedly only today though so I can't claim to know a lot about the case.