Blade Runner becomes Blade Gunner **Mod Warning Read OP""

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

You've obviously missed large chunks of the testimony then.

They are both awake at 3am, they briefly chat, he gets up to move fans, doesn't notice her get out of bed as well, he hears noise in bathroom, tells her to keep quite and he goes to fetch his gun ... then I think you have the rest of the story from there.

Problem is, there was only one fan plugged in..... :P

allibastor

Deise Vu wrote: »

The 'only' bit you have to believe is that a fella wakes up at night hearing a noise in the bathroom and doesn't check that it is his girlfriend by , I dunno, reaching out about 12 inches across the bed or maybe, just maybe, calling her name? Instead he has a great plan: "I'll blast four shots through the door, that's what most people would do."

I don't buy it and the formidable looking lady that is presiding judge will not be impressed either.

Could not agree more. The story he is giving is non-sense. He said he didn't have his false legs on when moving across the room to bring in the fan, yet earlier has said how walking on the stumps cause him discomfort. How did he manage to cross the room, bring in the fan and then notice the noise without noticing his GF wasn't in bed. Unless he has echo location and can hover this would have been hard for him with no legs on.

Also, anyone who has a long term partner will tell you, you just know if they are in the bed or not, her side would still be warm or cold or indented or what ever.

robinph

weldoninhio wrote: »

His intent was to kill whoever was in the bathroom. The type of bullets used don't just wound, they cause massive internal injuries. Firing them indiscriminately through a closed door, your only intent can be to kill. Whether he knew or not that it was Reeva, it's clear he intended to kill whoever was behind the door.

Agreed on that, although his new "accidental" thing that just came up in the last half hour changes his story on that slightly.

Intending to kill or incapacitate the person behind the door does not make it pre-meditated murder of Reeva though as his story has always been self defence from a perceived threat from intruders.

sopretty

allibastor wrote: »

Could not agree more. The story he is giving is non-sense. He said he didn't have his false legs on when moving across the room to bring in the fan, yet earlier has said how walking on the stumps cause him discomfort. How did he manage to cross the room, bring in the fan and then notice the noise without noticing his GF wasn't in bed. Unless he has echo location and can hover this would have been hard for him with no legs on.

Also, anyone who has a long term partner will tell you, you just know if they are in the bed or not, her side would still be warm or cold or indented or what ever.

Well a give-away as to them not being in the bed, is when they don't reply to you!

jimgoose

robinph wrote: »

...They are both awake at 3am, they briefly chat, he gets up to move fans, doesn't notice her get out of bed as well, he hears noise in bathroom, tells her to keep quite and he goes to fetch his gun...

...and sends four cross-cut shells through the bathroom door. Yes, so we heard. You'd think he'd check to see if it was the Bean an Tí in the bathroom regardless, wouldn't you?

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

Problem is, there was only one fan plugged in..... :P

Fan or fans doesn't matter hugely.

All that can be proved is that SA police are incompetent.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

Agreed on that, although his new "accidental" thing that just came up in the last half hour changes his story on that slightly.

Intending to kill or incapacitate the person behind the door does not make it pre-meditated murder of Reeva though as his story has always been self defence from a perceived threat from intruders.

Well it's not self defence if it accidentally went off is it?

My opinion of him is the following:

He was pathologically possessive of Reeva
He is a lying <bleep>
He is as thick as two planks
He will hang himself if given enough of a rope (well, he has already).

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

Well a give-away as to them not being in the bed, is when they don't reply to you!

Yeah, except if he has just said keep quiet there is someone in the bathroom I'd be expecting them to keep quiet and not start having a conversation about it.

Kristopherus

I think after today he's foooked;)

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

Yeah, except if he has just said keep quiet there is someone in the bathroom I'd be expecting them to keep quiet and not start having a conversation about it.

You're very obedient! :pac:

Tasden

sopretty wrote: »

You're very obedient! :pac:

Most people would do the same tbh

robinph

Maybe the prosecution will come back to it, but they seem to have skipped over the whole not noticing that she wasn't in bed bit.

Whilst it would be nice to think that you'd know the precise location of your partner at all times in the house, they have probably accepted that it's a bit of a dead end of line of questioning and gone straight from the fan/ fans question to the shooting at the door stage.

sopretty

Tasden wrote: »

Most people would do the same tbh

Are you serious?

Lol.

I've heard noises. My OH has heard noises. The instinct is to say 'Did you hear that?' You reply 'Yes' or 'No'. You engage in conversation in whispers. Cave-man heads down the stairs, bat in hand, while you arm yourself with the phone.

You don't hear a noise, tell your girlfriend to get down and call the police, tell her to be quiet, fail to hear any movement from her, fail to see whether she is on her phone, manage to get your gun from under the bed she's on with her phone, and then fail to see that eh........... she's not in the bed. While you're shushing her, then you start screaming??? lol. Then you decide to be quiet.
:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Deise Vu

robinph wrote: »

You've obviously missed large chunks of the testimony then.

They are both awake at 3am, they briefly chat, he gets up to move fans, doesn't notice her get out of bed as well, he hears noise in bathroom, tells her to keep quite and he goes to fetch his gun ... then I think you have the rest of the story from there.

So he is not even claiming to have been woken up from a deep sleep. I might have given a small bit of credit for that. She snuck off to the bathroom, relieved herself and then flushed the toilet as any polite burglar would. She truly got what she deserved (for going out with a psycho).

And BTW, 'the rest of the story from there' remains as ridiculously implausible as ever.

allibastor

robinph wrote: »

Yeah, except if he has just said keep quiet there is someone in the bathroom I'd be expecting them to keep quiet and not start having a conversation about it.

Do you live with anyone. I have a big bedroom and an ensuite, not overly dissimilar to the Pistorious house. If my wife was in the jax at night and I yelled at her or indeed whom ever I thought was in there, I would get a reply along the lines of " what do you want, I am in the bloody toilet, leave me alone will you"

He said they were talking in bed, but she failed to answer when he spoke to her, even if she was in bed and awake you would expect some answer of either, " Oh god someone is in our toilet" or "Oh god the British are coming" or something. if she didn't answer back to him, then of course the logical thing to do is hobble over to the bathroom on stumps, yell at the door and then fire off 4 rounds from a large handgun with possibly illegal ammunition.
Sure we all do that, don't we?

Tasden

sopretty wrote: »

Are you serious?

Lol.

I've heard noises. My OH has heard noises. The instinct is to say 'Did you hear that?' You reply 'Yes' or 'No'. You engage in conversation in whispers. Cave-man heads down the stairs, bat in hand, while you arm yourself with the phone.

You don't hear a noise, tell your girlfriend to get down and call the police, tell her to be quiet, fail to hear any movement from her, fail to see whether she is on her phone, manage to get your gun from under the bed she's on with her phone, and then fail to see that eh........... she's not in the bed. While you're shushing her, then you start screaming??? lol. Then you decide to be quiet.
:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

:pac:



Someone tells you to be quiet you be quiet. Most people would.
I never said most people would do what OP did.

robinph

Deise Vu wrote: »

And BTW, 'the rest of the story from there' remains as ridiculously implausible as ever.

Have you ever been in a situation where there is an unknown intruder in your bathroom, whilst your girlfriend is asleep in the next room?

What is implausible about him trying to defend himself and her from the unknown attacker?

allibastor

robinph wrote: »

Maybe the prosecution will come back to it, but they seem to have skipped over the whole not noticing that she wasn't in bed bit.

Whilst it would be nice to think that you'd know the precise location of your partner at all times in the house, they have probably accepted that it's a bit of a dead end of line of questioning and gone straight from the fan/ fans question to the shooting at the door stage.

They will come back to that, they are just building the case first on his account of actually being awake in the room first and actually moving around. He said he got fans from the balcony, so surely he must have noticed a ladder or something against the bathroom window, or heard noise from outside also.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

Have you ever been in a situation where there is an unknown intruder in your bathroom, whilst your girlfriend is asleep in the next room?

What is implausible about him trying to defend himself and her from the unknown attacker?

She wasn't asleep. According to his evidence, he woke up and she was still awake on her phone.

sopretty

allibastor wrote: »

They will come back to that, they are just building the case first on his account of actually being awake in the room first and actually moving around. He said he got fans from the balcony, so surely he must have noticed a ladder or something against the bathroom window, or heard noise from outside also.

He wouldn't have been able to notice a ladder, as the balcony is at a right angle to the bathroom window where this fictional ladder might have been.

Deise Vu

robinph wrote: »

Have you ever been in a situation where there is an unknown intruder in your bathroom, whilst your girlfriend is asleep in the next room?

What is implausible about him trying to defend himself and her from the unknown attacker?

I can safely say I have been in a lot more dangerous situations that being alone in a apartment carrying a loaded pistol while a model takes a leak (allegedly) behind a locked door.

I can assure you I would categorically not start shooting through the door as my first option.

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

She wasn't asleep. According to his evidence, he woke up and she was still awake on her phone.

Sorry, gets difficult to remember each detail at times.

Anyway, if she was awake or not is irrelevant to that point.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

Sorry, gets difficult to remember each detail at times.

Anyway, if she was awake or not is irrelevant to that point.

You sound as slippery as Pistorious!

robinph

Deise Vu wrote: »

I can safely say I have been in a lot more dangerous situations that being alone in a apartment carrying a loaded pistol while a model takes a leak (allegedly) behind a locked door.

I can assure you I would categorically not start shooting through the door as my first option.

Except that is not the situation that he believed himself to be in.

We know that Reeva was actually in the loo, that is a fact. However, at the point of the shooting OP believed her to be in bed and someone else was making noise in the bathroom.

allibastor

sopretty wrote: »

He wouldn't have been able to notice a ladder, as the balcony is at a right angle to the bathroom window where this fictional ladder might have been.

It is still building cause that if was he at the balcony he might have noticed something, such as noise or what ever.
The fact he didn't notice anything outside is building up the case of " why the hell did you then shoot inside your own bedroom into your own toilet at 3am, you crazy fool"

robinph

allibastor wrote: »

It is still building cause that if was he at the balcony he might have noticed something, such as noise or what ever.
The fact he didn't notice anything outside is building up the case of " why the hell did you then shoot inside your own bedroom into your own toilet at 3am, you crazy fool"

But we all know the answer to that question and nobody is disputing it, and it's as you have said because he is a crazy fool.

That still does not make it murder, it only makes him a crazy fool.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

Except that is not the situation that he believed himself to be in.

We know that Reeva was actually in the loo, that is a fact. However, at the point of the shooting OP believed her to be in bed and someone else was making noise in the bathroom.

Do you really believe that he believed her to be in bed?

sham69

robinph wrote: »

Have you ever been in a situation where there is an unknown intruder in your bathroom, whilst your girlfriend is asleep in the next room?

What is implausible about him trying to defend himself and her from the unknown attacker?

How is he protecting her by legging it (excuse the pun) out of the bedroom away from her to the bathroom to blow the head off the intruder?

Surely a shout warning who is in there to get out or whatever before he shoots, maybe a cound to three or something?
But to just fire 4 explosive shots into the door with no warning when not knowing what was behind it seems crazy.

He was the one with the gun, he was in control.
Granted he didnt know if there was an armed intruder in the bathroom but still seems a bit extreme.


Just doesnt make sense.

sopretty

robinph wrote: »

But we all know the answer to that question and nobody is disputing it, and it's as you have said because he is a crazy fool.

That still does not make it murder, it only makes him a crazy fool.

Robin - you are unquestioningly accepting his evidence as fact and truth!!! Despite holes being picked in his version of events and his credibility as a witness.

Gyalist

sham69 wrote: »

Just doesnt make sense.

'If it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.' - Judge Judy

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

Do you really believe that he believed her to be in bed?

I've seen nothing that suggests that he didn't believe her to be in bed.

If he knew she wasn't in bed then does that follow that it was then murder? Would there not be some evidence of things being thrown around the room during this fight that must have happened before the shooting took place? Or are people seriously suggesting that he got up in the middle of the night, waited until she went to the loo and shot her through the door?

What is the sequence of events for this murder? I can't think of anything that would be any less fanciful a story to account for this murder than you see the OP story as being.

I agree that there is a bunch of points in the OP story where if he had just done X then the shooting would never have happened, and the fact that he didn't do that makes it all together sound unlikely.

The alternative is a fight at 3am that resulted in him shooting her through the toilet door, but with no evidence of anything else being out of place, nothing along the lines of bites or scratches from a fight between them, no furniture knocked over. The suggestion that he went straight for the gun at 3am is an even more daft story.

My name is URL

I still can't get past the fact that he claims to have 'yelled' to Reeva to 'get down' before opening fire. Why would he do that if he didn't know she was in the bathroom and believed she was still in bed? And why didn't he wait for a response before shooting?

He's talking through his arse.. and I really do hope the jury sees it. It would be a terrible injustice if he were to walk free after all is said and done.

Gyalist

My name is URL wrote: »

I still can't get past the fact that he claims to have 'yelled' to Reeva to 'get down' before opening fire. Why would he do that if he didn't know she was in the bathroom and believed she was still in bed? And why didn't he wait for a response before shooting?

He's talking through his arse.. and I really do hope the jury sees it. It would be a terrible injustice if he were to walk free after all is said and done.

Non-jury trial.

sham69

robinph wrote: »

I've seen nothing that suggests that he didn't believe her to be in bed.

If he knew she wasn't in bed then does that follow that it was then murder? Would there not be some evidence of things being thrown around the room during this fight that must have happened before the shooting took place? Or are people seriously suggesting that he got up in the middle of the night, waited until she went to the loo and shot her through the door?

What is the sequence of events for this murder? I can't think of anything that would be any less fanciful a story to account for this murder than you see the OP story as being.

I agree that there is a bunch of points in the OP story where if he had just done X then the shooting would never have happened, and the fact that he didn't do that makes it all together sound unlikely.

The alternative is a fight at 3am that resulted in him shooting her through the toilet door, but with no evidence of anything else being out of place, nothing along the lines of bites or scratches from a fight between them, no furniture knocked over. The suggestion that he went straight for the gun at 3am is an even more daft story.

Was she not fully clothed when found?

Deise Vu

robinph wrote: »

Except that is not the situation that he believed himself to be in.

We know that Reeva was actually in the loo, that is a fact. However, at the point of the shooting OP believed her to be in bed and someone else was making noise in the bathroom.

OK, apologies for the sarcasm but the point still stands: there are no circumstances where I would start blasting away without warning. None.

And that is after making the enormous leap that I hadn't checked where my girlfriend was in our locked apartment in a secure compound that had never been burgled before.

3mm

sham69 wrote: »

How is he protecting her by legging it (excuse the pun) out of the bedroom away from her to the bathroom to blow the head off the intruder?

Surely a shout warning who is in there to get out or whatever before he shoots, maybe a cound to three or something?
But to just fire 4 explosive shots into the door with no warning when not knowing what was behind it seems crazy.

He was the one with the gun, he was in control.
Granted he didnt know if there was an armed intruder in the bathroom but still seems a bit extreme.




Just doesnt make sense.

This is South Africa were talking about , not Ireland . Generally intruders in South Africa would be alot more violent than here and it might of being too late if he didn't act quickly . Personally I believe it was a tragic accident .

robinph

sopretty wrote: »

Robin - you are unquestioningly accepting his evidence as fact and truth!!! Despite holes being picked in his version of events and his credibility as a witness.

His credibility as a witness is only as good as anyone else. Whilst his story is odd, it is far more believable than the alternative, and the prosecution have nothing at all to suggest that it was more than a very unfortunate accident.

There is no motive, no cause, nothing to suggest a fight that evening.
There is shouting and screaming and bangs being heard from neighbours, but that only confirms OP's story.

I do not like his story because there are so many points at which he could have saved this from happening if he took a second longer to think about what he was doing. It is more believable than the alternative though.

My name is URL

Gyalist wrote: »

Non-jury trial.

Oh.. didn't know that. I suppose that might be a good thing

sham69

This is South Africa were talking about , not Ireland . Generally intruders in South Africa would be alot more violent than here and it might of being too late if he didn't act quickly . Personally I believe it was a tragic accident

but surely they wouldnt have locked themselves in the bathroom and waited to be found if they wanted to harm someone or rob the place blind (going by your logic)

robinph

sham69 wrote: »

Was she not fully clothed when found?

So?

What do that have to do with anything? People can have a fight whilst fully clothed, or go to bed fully clothed, or go to the bathroom while fully clothed.

My name is URL

3mm wrote: »

This is South Africa were talking about , not Ireland . Generally intruders in South Africa would be alot more violent than here and it might of being too late if he didn't act quickly . Personally I believe it was a tragic accident .

People keep saying things like that. It's true, but if you want to apply that argument evenly.. In SA, a woman is murdered every 8 hours by their partner, so...!

sham69

robinph wrote: »

So?

What do that have to do with anything? People can have a fight whilst fully clothed, or go to bed fully clothed, or go to the bathroom while fully clothed.

So??

He said they were both in bed and were woken by a sound?

She was fully clothed (despite possibly being in bed, and possible getting up for a wee?)

is that not strange?

sham69

People keep saying things like that. It's true, but if you want to apply that argument evenly.. In SA, a woman is murdered every 8 hours by their partner.. so it's not exactly beyond reasonable doubt that's what happened here.

Also , surely the intruders would know that OP being a famous person would be armed to the hilt with weapons, given that it is SA..

robinph

sham69 wrote: »

So??

He said they were both in bed and were woken by a sound?

She was fully clothed (despite possibly being in bed, and possible getting up for a wee?)

is that not strange?

Nope, she was awake and on the phone, he couldn't sleep and got out of bed to move the fan/ fans, then heard a sound...

Deise Vu

robinph wrote: »

I've seen nothing that suggests that he didn't believe her to be in bed.

If he knew she wasn't in bed then does that follow that it was then murder? Would there not be some evidence of things being thrown around the room during this fight that must have happened before the shooting took place? Or are people seriously suggesting that he got up in the middle of the night, waited until she went to the loo and shot her through the door?

What is the sequence of events for this murder? I can't think of anything that would be any less fanciful a story to account for this murder than you see the OP story as being.

I agree that there is a bunch of points in the OP story where if he had just done X then the shooting would never have happened, and the fact that he didn't do that makes it all together sound unlikely.

The alternative is a fight at 3am that resulted in him shooting her through the toilet door, but with no evidence of anything else being out of place, nothing along the lines of bites or scratches from a fight between them, no furniture knocked over. The suggestion that he went straight for the gun at 3am is an even more daft story.

Because blasting blindly through your bathroom door in your locked apartment in your secure compound without knowing where your girlfriend's whereabouts is not daft?

Have you considered that all the damage to the door was done before the shooting after she maybe locked herself in out of fear and that he worked himself into a frenzy of frustration because she wouldn't come out? He is the only one who knows the truth but plausibility is stacked up against him.

robinph

My name is URL wrote: »

People keep saying things like that. It's true, but if you want to apply that argument evenly.. In SA, a woman is murdered every 8 hours by their partner, so...!

So.

The murder rate in SA is not relevant, other than being a reason that OP had guns in the house and was scared. It does not make him guilty of murder because lots of other people do it.

My name is URL

robinph wrote: »

So.

The murder rate in SA is not relevant, other than being a reason that OP had guns in the house and was scared. It does not make him guilty of murder because lots of other people do it.

Read as: 'facts and statistics are not relevant unless they support my own pre-formed notions'

robinph

Deise Vu wrote: »

Because blasting blindly through your bathroom door in your locked apartment in your secure compound without knowing where your girlfriend's whereabouts is not daft?

Have you considered that all the damage to the door was done before the shooting after she maybe locked herself in out of fear and that he worked himself into a frenzy of frustration because she wouldn't come out? He is the only one who knows the truth but plausibility is stacked up against him.

That is a possible scenario.

However, she had her phone on her. If this argument was going on long enough for her to have run away to the loo, him to have battered the door with a cricket bat, then him to have fetched his gun ... would she not have phoned the police in that time?

sham69

robinph wrote: »

Nope, she was awake and on the phone, he couldn't sleep and got out of bed to move the fan/ fans, then heard a sound...

oh ok, my mistake.
Thats worse so...

If she was asleep I can kind of understand him not noticing she was not in the bed as she could have been asleep and not movning etc..

But she was awake and on the phone?

And there was only 1 fan working

robinph

My name is URL wrote: »

Read as: 'facts and statistics are not relevant unless they support my own pre-formed notions'

Nope, the murder rate in SA does not imply every person that dies in SA is murdered. You have your logic back to front.