Blade Runner becomes Blade Gunner **Mod Warning Read OP""

Bacchus

Rascasse wrote: »

I should also add that SA isn't as dangerous as people make out. Most of the murders happen in the townships. In 3 years the only time I came into contact with guns in a worrying way was a few times 'Black taxi' drivers waving them at me on the motorway as a warning to get out their way. That was during the taxi wars, though.

Ah the taxi wars. What country doesn't have one of those every couple of years or so.

Magic Pips

Latest news this side: ALLEDGED:

The police were called out 2 hours before the shooting for an argument between the two- drink suspected to be involved.
She was shot through a bathroom door, arm, chest, pelvis and head.

For tweets from within the court room follow here:
https://twitter.com/barrybateman

Magic Pips

Rascasse wrote: »

I should also add that SA isn't as dangerous as people make out...

+1 on this. Yes it is dangerous, yes bad things happen to good people. Its not all doom and gloom though.

2ndcoming

Despite offending the sensibilities of some of our more delicate boardsies it seems the editors of the red-tops thought your thread title was pretty sweet Xavi6

seamus

Whatever about whether this was murder, there were four shots through a closed bathroom door. Means that we can be fairly certain this wasn't a tragic case of mistaken identity or a simple accident.

Bacchus

seamus wrote: »

Whatever about whether this was murder, there were four shots through a closed bathroom door. Means that we can be fairly certain this wasn't a tragic case of mistaken identity or a simple accident.

Where did you hear the shots were through a bathroom door? If that's the case... it looks very much like manslaughter.

seamus

Bacchus wrote: »

Where did you hear the shots were through a bathroom door? If that's the case... it looks very much like manslaughter.

This is pretty much what's being reported everywhere today, I think they're following the lead of a local media outlet.

Though if the SA media are as prone to frenzy as someone mentioned earlier, then I suppose all "facts" should be viewed with suspicion until a trial actually begins.

old hippy

paddy147 wrote: »

So theres no such thing as a WHITE Intruder in South Africa then??.:pac:

Depends on how you view the actions of the colonialists, I imagine...

pickarooney

MadsL wrote: »

I'd counter that not having a gun in country with as high a crime rate as South Africa would be more idiotic. What do you expect the police response time is there?

You call them and they'll be there 'just now'.

MurdyWurdy

pickarooney wrote: »

You call them and they'll be there 'just now'.

or the other good one "now now" - meaning "yeah, in a few minutes". Still cracks me up every time I hear it

SA slang is very amusing

JupiterKid

It does look like it's pointing to a domestic row that got out of hand. But isn't that how a lot of fatal shooting incidents happen?

Whatever the outcome of the trial, a beautiful and bright young woman is dead and Pistorious's career and reputation is in permanent tatters.

Micky Dolenz

RTE report she was killed in the bathroom. Shot 4 times through the closed bathroom door.

Odd.

wow sierra

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

RTE report she was killed in the bathroom. Shot 4 times through the closed bathroom door.

Odd.

To me this sounds even worse. It sounds like they were having a violent row and she locked herself in the bathroom to get away and he shot her through the door.

I think the media bias in his favour is rediculous - all the coverage of how sad he is and how his family are standing by him in his difficulty etc. What about the dead girl and her family:mad:

LizT

wow sierra wrote: »

To me this sounds even worse. It sounds like they were having a violent row and she locked herself in the bathroom to get away and he shot her through the door.

I think the media bias in his favour is rediculous - all the coverage of how sad he is and how his family are standing by him in his difficulty etc. What about the dead girl and her family:mad:

Any reports I've read or seen have been fairly impartial, just describing his reaction in the court.

JupiterKid

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

RTE report she was killed in the bathroom. Shot 4 times through the closed bathroom door.

Odd.

IMO it's possible that they were having a domestic row, she locked herself into the bathroom and Pistorius fired the shots into the bathroom door in a fit of rage.

Whether those shots were meant to kill, injure or just frighten his girlfriend is a moot point. Could be one of those incidents where if there was no gun to hand two lives wouldn't have been destroyed in a moment of madness.

Micky Dolenz

wow sierra wrote: »

To me this sounds even worse. It sounds like they were having a violent row and she locked herself in the bathroom to get away and he shot her through the door.

I think the media bias in his favour is rediculous - all the coverage of how sad he is and how his family are standing by him in his difficulty etc. What about the dead girl and her family:mad:

The SA prosecutors seem pretty confident if they are going full out with a premeditated murder charge.

token101

He shot through a locked door??? **** me if that's true it's at least manslaughter whether he thought there was an intruder or not?? Assuming his story's true, why didn't he call out to see who it was? And the police were called beforehand?? Not looking good at all.

LizT

token101 wrote: »

He shot through a locked door??? **** me if that's true it's at least manslaughter whether he thought there was an intruder or not?? Assuming his story's true, why didn't he call out to see who it was? And the police were called beforehand?? Not looking good at all.

They've discounted the intruder story afaik. Seems she was in the house for a few hours before she was shot.

Felexicon

wow sierra wrote: »

I think the media bias in his favour is rediculous - all the coverage of how sad he is and how his family are standing by him in his difficulty etc. What about the dead girl and her family:mad:

It just seems like that because Oscar Pustorius is the story. The media don't care about reporting on the victims family as she wasn't a major sporting figure.
Take away the celebrity and its just another murder in SA.

libra02

Freinds of mine lived in SA for a few years and I was aking their opinion on the case and their opinion was both the police and media are both prone to hysterical reactions. As one of them said alot of people in SA have the view the police could not detect 8 o clock at 7.55 and that the police seem to be rushing the case to try to boost the reputation of the force given opinion of it both at home and abroad would not be great.

Given so many people have to take the defence of their house and person into their own hands by keeping weapons all over the house says alot about crime and lack of confidence in the law over there. Even secure complex's are not safe as they are targetted alot of the time.

They don't know what happened that night no-one does but I agree that he has got a trial by media and that the police are using this to push the case forward very fast. They have never seen the police coming out with so much alleged facts within such a short space of them especially when forensics have not even been completed. They think the pre-mediated murder charge is a bit of ego boosting / headline grabbing and that the police are using this to try to get him to plead to manslaughter instead if they rule out the intruder case, which they have. They know the eyes of the world are on the police force now and aspects of the investigation will be used by them to get good PR for the force.

Even if it was a cut and dry case, which none of us know if it is, everyone has to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

All in all it is a very sad case. A young life has been wiped out and a man who has overcome so much life is destroyed.

Ballerina

Nobody has a clue what was going on in that house that night and never will

Micky Dolenz

Ballerina wrote: »

Nobody has a clue what was going on in that house that night and never will

It won't be too hard to piece together. And who's to say he won't confess all.

Ava_e

Listening to BBC radio this morning, they were talking to a journalist from SA he said three interesting things.


The first shot was fired in the bedroom, the police found an empty cartridge there.

A blood covered cricket bat was found in the bedroom, they do not yet know whose blood it was.

The police demanded that Pistorious be tested for steroids. Thinking it could be a roidrage induced attack.

Rascasse

Ava_e wrote: »

A blood covered cricket bat was found in the bedroom, they do not yet know whose blood it was.

The SA press are saying her skull was fractured, which could explain the bat.

Plenty of stories of him being a rather angry individual too. Not looking good for him, and you wouldn't want to be a pretty white boy in a South African prison.

On a more positive note for him, I see he's also got the same barrister as Bees Roux had. He's a former Springbok that beat a cop to death and got off with a suspended sentence after paying the family €60k in compensation. http://mg.co.za/article/2011-09-09-suspended-sentence-for-bees-roux

donvito99

Christ. That's just not cricket, chaps.

LizT

Rascasse wrote: »

The SA press are saying her skull was fractured, which could explain the bat.

Plenty of stories of him being a rather angry individual too. Not looking good for him, and you wouldn't want to be a pretty white boy in a South African prison.

On a more positive note for him, I see he's also got the same barrister as Bees Roux had. He's a former Springbok that beat a cop to death and got off with a suspended sentence after paying the family €60k in compensation. http://mg.co.za/article/2011-09-09-suspended-sentence-for-bees-roux

If that's true, that's horrible. Poor poor girl.

Gyalist

wow sierra wrote: »

I think the media bias in his favour is rediculous - all the coverage of how sad he is and how his family are standing by him in his difficulty etc. What about the dead girl and her family:mad:

That's because Pistorius and his management team have the resources to run a sophisticated PR campaign. Stuart Higgins, a former editor of The Sun went out to South Africa the day after the murder to run the campaign.

Now the SA police seem to have leaked some of their evidence to tilt the PR battle in their favour:

A bloodied cricket bat is the central piece of evidence in the unfolding murder investigation into ReevaSteenkamp’s death.

City Press can reveal that police are investigating different scenarios involving the bat – one of which is that her boyfriend, Olympic hero Oscar Pistorius, used it to viciously assault her.

The police are also investigating two more possibilities: that Steenkamp may have used the bat in self-defence, or that Pistorius used it to break down the toilet door behind which Steenkamp was hiding from him.

We can further reveal that police specifically requested that Pistorius’ blood be tested for drugs and steroids.
Steenkamp’s skull was “crushed” and police tests on the cricket bat and her body will reveal if the injuries were caused by blows to the back of her head.

“There was lots of blood on the bat. Forensic tests will show whose blood it was,” said a source with inside knowledge of the case.

City Press spoke to three sources close to the high-profile investigation, which has gripped the world’s imagination. They all ruled out the possibility that Pistorius could have mistaken Steenkamp for an intruder. The police found no evidence of forced entry.

The case against Oscar

davet82

not just a murderer now but also a cheat?

Cops are now probing a theory that Pistorius may have blasted Reeva in an explosion of fury caused by the performance-boosting steroids.

They are investigating whether murder suspect Pistorius was in the grip of “roid rage” — a side-effect of high doses of the outlawed drugs.

Officers who searched the 26-year-old’s home after lover Reeva was killed in the bathroom are said to have found steroids. Blood samples taken from Pistorius are being tested for the drugs.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4800201/Steroids-found-in-Oscar-Pistorius-house-after-he-shot-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2LFGIo8lm

flanzer

davet82 wrote: »

not just a murderer now but also a cheat?



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4800201/Steroids-found-in-Oscar-Pistorius-house-after-he-shot-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2LFGIo8lm

If that paper is reporting it, it must be true :rolleyes:

twinQuins

davet82 wrote: »

not just a murderer [...]

Wait, the trial is over and he was found guilty?

davet82

twinQuins wrote: »

Wait, the trial is over and he was found guilty?

i hate to break it to you (you must be a fan) but i'm pretty sure he's guilty, sorry to be the bearer of bad news :rolleyes:

twinQuins

Not a fan (barely heard of him before all this) but hey, if you're "pretty sure" then I guess all the authorities investigating the case can stop since, obviously, you know exactly what happened.

No, no. I'm sure all those cops with their new fangled forensics have no clue what they're doing, you're the only person who actually knows the skinny, and they should just defer to you.

In fact, let's just get rid of all police forces the world over since they clearly have no idea what they're doing is some random guy on the internet can figure out murder cases by himself.

davet82

twinQuins wrote: »

Not a fan (barely heard of him before all this) but hey, if you're "pretty sure" then I guess all the authorities investigating the case can stop since, obviously, you know exactly what happened.

No, no. I'm sure all those cops with their new fangled forensics have no clue what they're doing, you're the only person who actually knows the skinny, and they should just defer to you.

In fact, let's just get rid of all police forces the world over since they clearly have no idea what they're doing is some random guy on the internet can figure out murder cases by himself.

ok you sit on the edge of your chair waiting on the verdit :pac:

twinQuins

I will admit to having some interest in this but mostly I'm bemused by the rush to assume guilt in the face of not knowing the facts.

But you didn't do that because you know more than the people investigating this.

Right?

davet82

twinQuins wrote: »

I will admit to having some interest in this but mostly I'm bemused by the rush to assume guilt in the face of not knowing the facts.

But you didn't do that because you know more than the people investigating this.

Right?

yes i do but then again maybe it was elves that shot her?

twinQuins

Maybe. It's about as plausible as your assertion that he's guilty, after all.

davet82

twinQuins wrote: »

Maybe. It's about as plausible as your assertion that he's guilty, after all.

that made me laugh, you're funny

ebixa82

Why do people even think it could be anything but a roid rage incident and that he's 100% guilty of that girl's murder? What doubt is there?

Rascasse

I highly doubt he was on steroids as he would have been caught by now. Either they found EPO or similar and they are calling it 'steroids', or they've found steroids and its something not banned, like a corticosteroid cream for his legs.

Also, the guy is a disaster around guns;

Meanwhile, Beeld reported on Monday Pistorius in January accidentally fired a gun shot at a busy Jo'burg restaurant.

The paper said the bullet, which was fired at a Tashas in Melrose Arch, almost hit the foot of Kevin Lerena, a boxer and mutual friend of Pistorius and his slain girlfriend, Steenkamp – who was allegedly gunned down in Pistorius's Pretoria home last week.

"I got a huge fright, because the bullet hit the ground just centimetres from my foot ... but it really was just a freak accident," Lerena told Beeld.

He said he had visited the restaurant with a group of friends who included Pistorius and Steenkamp.

"I must emphasise that the gun belonged to one of Pistorius's friends – I'm not going to mention his name. Oscar just wanted to look at the gun, and it sort of snagged on his pants, releasing the safety catch. A shot went off. I wouldn't call him negligent, it was just an accident. He apologised to me for days afterwards," Lerena said.

The restaurant did not report the incident to the police, as Pistorius and Steenkamp were regular customers.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-18-pistorius-accidentally-fired-a-shot-in-restaurant-report-claims

ebixa82

ebixa82 wrote: »

Why do people even think it could be anything but a roid rage incident and that he's 100% guilty of that girl's murder? What doubt is there?

The concept of everyone having the right to a free trial is the fairest concept in terms of determining whether someone is not guilty or guilty. This way every factor is examined and a judgement made beyond reasonable doubt

If we were going by the Sun newspaper to decide these things then who is guilty as sin one day might have suffered a huge miscarriage of justice another day. The red tops are utter scutter from the gutter

Duggys Housemate

Deleted User wrote: »

The concept of everyone having the right to a free trial is the fairest concept in terms of determining whether someone is not guilty or guilty. This way every factor is examined and a judgement made beyond reasonable doubt

If we were going by the Sun newspaper to decide these things then who is guilty as sin one day might have suffered a huge miscarriage of justice another day. The red tops are utter scutter from the gutter

however, being outside that jurisdiction, we are not subject to laws on sub judice* ( or boards would pull this thread). So he is technically innocent until proven guilty, but does his defense make sense?



* which is clearly not that strong in SA anyway.

Duggys Housemate

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

however, being outside that jurisdiction, we are not subject to laws on sub judice* ( or boards would pull this thread). So he is technically innocent until proven guilty, but does his defense make sense?



* which is clearly not that strong in SA anyway.

Based on what we are hearing then no, but he'll have his day in court and my overall judgement at the end of the day will be based on the dialogue within that court room. Anything i heard beforehand that didnt come out in court as evidence or testimony ill just put to the back of my mind

ebixa82

Of course he's innocent until proven guilty.

But the fact of the matter is he's 100% guilty of killing her, there's no doubt in that.

His case will be whether or not the steroids were a contributing factor which might mean a less severe sentence.

Blood tests will show the presence of steroids and this will be used in his defence.

opinion guy

ebixa82 wrote: »

Of course he's innocent until proven guilty.

But the fact of the matter is he's 100% guilty of killing her, there's no doubt in that.

His case will be whether or not the steroids were a contributing factor which might mean a less severe sentence.

Blood tests will show the presence of steroids and this will be used in his defence.

Do you have next weeks Lotto numbers there while you are at the clairvoyant stuff ?


I must say I find the speed with which he was in court and the amount of stuff being leaked to the press to be poor. Suggests to me the police are not confident in whatever case they are making. Why wage a PR campaign if the facts are on your side ?

MadsL

JupiterKid wrote: »

IMO it's possible that they were having a domestic row, she locked herself into the bathroom and Pistorius fired the shots into the bathroom door in a fit of rage.

Whether those shots were meant to kill, injure or just frighten his girlfriend is a moot point. Could be one of those incidents where if there was no gun to hand two lives wouldn't have been destroyed in a moment of madness.

Cricket bat? Ban those too huh?

COYVB

ebixa82 wrote: »

Of course he's innocent until proven guilty.

But the fact of the matter is he's 100% guilty of killing her, there's no doubt in that.

You're basing that on the hard evidence you know for a fact, yeah? Or, perhaps, are you speculating based on what you've read about a case thousands of miles away from you, about which you couldn't possibly have any intimate knowledge?

I reckon he murdered her too, but to say innocent until proven guilty, and immediately afterwards say that it's "fact" that he is "100% guilty of killing her" is among the most absurd and ignorant things I've ever read on here - that that's a hell of an achievement

ebixa82

COYVB wrote: »

You're basing that on the hard evidence you know for a fact, yeah? Or, perhaps, are you speculating based on what you've read about a case thousands of miles away from you, about which you couldn't possibly have any intimate knowledge?

I reckon he murdered her too, but to say innocent until proven guilty, and immediately afterwards say that it's "fact" that he is "100% guilty of killing her" is among the most absurd and ignorant things I've ever read on here - that that's a hell of an achievement

My point is he is innocent until proven guilty. But he will 100% be proven guilty so I'm just being realistic, not ignorant.

opinion guy

MadsL wrote: »

Cricket bat? Ban those too huh?

Nothing about the cricket bat in todays reporting about court proceedings:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21502541

Now its saying she was shot 3 times through a door - it was previously reported as 4 times

Story is changing quite a bit from what was reported initially. I don't think there is a 100% certainty about anything just yet

Duggys Housemate

opinion guy wrote: »

Nothing about the cricket bat in todays reporting about court proceedings:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21502541

Now its saying she was shot 3 times through a door - it was previously reported as 4 times

Story is changing quite a bit from what was reported initially. I don't think there is a 100% certainty about anything just yet

They are still saying he shot 4 times. She was hit 3 times. Not all that radical a change.

Pudders

opinion guy wrote: »

Do you have next weeks Lotto numbers there while you are at the clairvoyant stuff ?


I must say I find the speed with which he was in court and the amount of stuff being leaked to the press to be poor. Suggests to me the police are not confident in whatever case they are making. Why wage a PR campaign if the facts are on your side ?

Because his side have been waging a bigger PR campaign. The police had to deny the mistaken intrduer story. He had a big pr hitter fly out from the UK to manage HIS pr campaign so it is two sides to the PR campaign story.