Blade Runner becomes Blade Gunner **Mod Warning Read OP""

Muff Richardson

is there a time limit on cross examining? if he keeps up the charade for long enough does it put pressure on the prosecution?

Merkin

Excuse my thickness but what's the significance of the location of the jeans/duvet? I presume if the jeans were on top of the duvet as Nel asserts then it suggests the duvet was not moved but why would OP want to convince that the duvet was moved in the first place.....am missing something here, can someone clarify please?

The Caveman

Merkin wrote: »

Excuse my thickness but what's the significance of the location of the jeans/duvet? I presume if the jeans were on top of the duvet as Nel asserts then it suggests the duvet was not moved but why would OP want to convince that the duvet was moved in the first place.....am missing something here, can someone clarify please?

Duvet was covering her in bed, therefore he did not see her, if duvet was on floor, he is lying

sham69

sham69 wrote: »

more tough questions , more tears..

Buying for time again.

The thing is, IF he is innocent and his recollection is messed up with the stress and trauma of it all, it's perfectly human to be in tears and hesitant. It doesn't really mean anything by itself.

I personally think he intended to kill her, but I don't think being upset is necessarily a sign of guilt.

Merkin

Great thanks for that, I wasn't sure what he was getting at.

AudreyHepburn

gramar wrote: »

I know, I was being cruel. Whatever really happened it has to be unbelievably difficult there in front of the watching world.

Still though, a lot of people are unimpressed and a bit annoyed by the crying, wretching etc

Perhaps they should try to put themselves in his shoes.

Imagine being on that stand, the world and it's mother watching you, knowing that most of them have decided you are guilty before you even went to trial.

Imagine the pain of having taken a loved ones life accidently, of having them die in your arms. And knowing you will have to live with that for the rest of your life.

And now you are being subjected to vigorous question and are forced to relieve what you did over and over again while a lawyer called the Pit Bull repeatadly calls you a liar and tries to confused you and tear you apart.

I can't even imagine how horrific it must be. I think crying and throwing up is the least I'd be doing.

Merkin

This:

Nel says Pistorius' version is implausible because the first thing a couple would do when hearing a noise in the night would be to have a conversation. "You did not find out whether she was scared," says Nel, or whether she had heard him.

FunGoose

The Caveman wrote: »

Duvet was covering her in bed, therefore he did not see her, if duvet was on floor, he is lying

And also, it has something to do with if the duvet was on the floor when OP moved the fan like he said he did the fan would have been on the duvet. So if OPs version is true then the police must have moved the fan first (back to blocking the sliding door to the balcony) in order to spread the duvet on the floor.

In other words, OPs version explains how he was able to get onto the balcony to shout for help (after the shooting) but the prosecution says the police didn't move anything and there would be no room for him to get onto the balcony because the fan was in the way (because he never moved it).

Muff Richardson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Perhaps they should try to put themselves in his shoes.

Imagine being on that stand, the world and it's mother watching you, knowing that most of them have decided you are guilty before you even went to trial.

Imagine the pain of having taken a loved ones life accidently, of having them die in your arms. And knowing you will have to live with that for the rest of your life.

And now you are being subjected to vigorous question and are forced to relieve what you did over and over again while a lawyer called the Pit Bull repeatadly calls you a liar and tries to confused you and tear you apart.

I can't even imagine how horrific it must be. I think crying and throwing up is the least I'd be doing.

I know, and imagine trying to do all that when you are talking solemnly through your hole about what actually happened.

FunGoose

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Perhaps they should try to put themselves in his shoes.

Imagine being on that stand, the world and it's mother watching you, knowing that most of them have decided you are guilty before you even went to trial.

Imagine the pain of having taken a loved ones life accidently, of having them die in your arms. And knowing you will have to live with that for the rest of your life.

And now you are being subjected to vigorous question and are forced to relieve what you did over and over again while a lawyer called the Pit Bull repeatadly calls you a liar and tries to confused you and tear you apart.

I can't even imagine how horrific it must be. I think crying and throwing up is the least I'd be doing.

Not in so many words but Reevas' father said similar (in an interview where Reevas' mother gave her reaction to OPs apology). He said "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy"

Merkin

FunGoose wrote: »

Not in so many words but Reevas' father said similar (in an interview where Reevas' mother gave her reaction to OPs apology). He said "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy"

I feel very sorry for him. He had a near fatal stroke just a few weeks before this trial started - he must be heartbroken.

123balltv

Reeva's Mothers blonde friend looks ready to smash his head in.

BQQ

This is it.

He shouts at her to call the police.
No answer. . .
Does he check to see where she was/if she heard? No.

He arms himself and goes towards the bathroom shouting and screaming.
She remains silent?


Totally Unbelievable.

FunGoose

Merkin wrote: »

I feel very sorry for him. He had a near fatal stroke just a few weeks before this trial started - he must be heartbroken.

Me too. I feel sorry for all of Reevas family and friends. No matter what people believe or don't believe it's all OPs fault.

Merkin

She would have responded," says Nel, if Pistorius was shouting and screaming three metres away. Long silence as Nel asks whether Steenkamp screamed after first shot. Pistorius says she didn't scream. But he also says the shots were so loud that screams would not have been heard. Nel says people heard a woman scream during the shots

Whatsisname

Things aren't looking good for OP.

Spudmonkey

Over till Monday

Kunkka

I's plainly obvious to me that he murdered her. From the personality that he has portrayed prior to all of this he seems the type that would get very defensive about accusations if they were false not emotional. I can't help but think that this is all a show, I just don't believe him at all. Too many things don't make any sense to me at all.

I think it's a simple case of a guy that has had inner demons since he was a child. Very bi polar, a gun nut with a temper. Something happened in that room that night and he snapped. We'll never know the truth as it's got to the stage that he's recited the lies in his head so regularly that he almost believes them.

Joeseph Balls

He said he 'wished she did scream' after 1st shot,
Then says he 'would not have heard her scream'?.
Thought Nel would have said something there

desbrook

Reckon the last hour was very bad for OP . Even the sympathetic would find it very hard to believe him after that .

sopretty

At times, he is is arrogant and a bit of a 'smart-ass' in his answers. When he is backed into a corner, he starts to cry. Rather than answer the question.

I agree, the woman sitting with Reeva's mother, has been fit to deck him from the start of the trial!! Is she Reeva's aunt?

123balltv

sopretty wrote: »

At times, he is is arrogant and a bit of a 'smart-ass' in his answers. When he is backed into a corner, he starts to cry. Rather than answer the question.

I agree, the woman sitting with Reeva's mother, has been fit to deck him from the start of the trial!! Is she Reeva's aunt?

No shes not family that's her Mother's friend.
To shoot a gun in a packed restaurant with Children you'd have be arrogant his family are multi -millionaires he has no fear.

sopretty

123balltv wrote: »

No shes not family that's her Mother's friend.
To shoot a gun in a packed restaurant with Children you'd have be arrogant his family are multi -millionaires he has no fear.

I thought he said he grew up in a poor household? That they had to live in unsafe neighbourhoods due to financial constraints?

He also lied about his father yesterday. He said he hadn't been in contact with him for years. Then, eh, how or why did you consent to him storing ammunition in your safe?

weldoninhio

His lies were pulled apart this morning. Any time there is a tough question he either cries or answers with some nonsense that isn't relevant, then claims he made a mistake in his answer.

He's going away for a long, long time.

123balltv

sopretty wrote: »

I thought he said he grew up in a poor household? That they had to live in unsafe neighbourhoods due to financial constraints?

He also lied about his father yesterday. He said he hadn't been in contact with him for years. Then, eh, how or why did you consent to him storing ammunition in your safe?

Maybe the Dad is bad for Oscar's case and image he owns 55 guns im sure
he has some kind of relationship with him.
His Family Grandfather, Father and Uncles are mining developers

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/theyre-rolling-in-it/

sham69

Arrogant bully who thinks he is untouchable due to his celebrity status.

Nel is a class act, won't fall for his crocodile tears and time wasting.

Weren't they only together 3 months?
OP is going on like they were together years?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he does feel some remorse and hurt due to his actions but his reactions are way over the top...

sopretty

123balltv wrote: »

Maybe the Dad is bad for Oscar's case and image he owns 55 guns im sure
he has some kind of relationship with him.
His Family Grandfather, Father and Uncles are mining developers

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/theyre-rolling-in-it/

His father refused to sign a statement saying that the ammunition for the .38 was his apparently (well according to Nell anyway!).

From that article:

"Of the four Pistorius brothers, Oscar’s father Henke has the fewest business interests.

Of the 10 companies he was involved in over the years, one went into voluntary liquidation and seven are dormant."

I don't think he has support from his father's side of the family.

sham69

sopretty wrote: »

His father refused to sign a statement saying that the ammunition for the .38 was his apparently (well according to Nell anyway!).

From that article:

"Of the four Pistorius brothers, Oscar’s father Henke has the fewest business interests.

Of the 10 companies he was involved in over the years, one went into voluntary liquidation and seven are dormant."

I don't think he has support from his father's side of the family.

Yeah, didnt OP say that he was storing the ammunition for his father but then went on to say that he doesnt really have a relationship with his father? (when Nel asked him)

Very strange...

Kunkka

sham69 wrote: »

Very strange...

Nothing strange about it mate. Like most liars he's tripping up and forgetting which lies he told. If that was a person telling the truth that wouldn't be happening. He murdered that poor young woman plain & simple. This trial wouldn't have even been entertained if he wasn't a celebrity. Send him to prison and be done with it.

123balltv

sopretty wrote: »

I don't think he has support from his father's side of the family.

His Father's family did support him
He boarded at highly respected Pretoria Boys High School at 13

His Uncle Arnold paid most of the R1-million bail to secure Oscar’s release after his arrest for shooting model Reeva Steenkamp (29) in February last year. He then offered the Olympic athlete a safe refuge, allowing him to move into his family mansion Oscar is apparently still living in a cottage on the property and Arnold has had a gym built for him so he can train in private.

I find it hard to believe his wealthy, politically-connected family never support him if he gets off its all thanks to his family.

sopretty

123balltv wrote: »

His Father's family did support him
He boarded at highly respected Pretoria Boys High School at 13

His Uncle Arnold paid most of the R1-million bail to secure Oscar’s release after his arrest for shooting model Reeva Steenkamp (29) in February last year. He then offered the Olympic athlete a safe refuge, allowing him to move into his family mansion Oscar is apparently still living in a cottage on the property and Arnold has had a gym built for him so he can train in private.

I find it hard to believe his wealthy, politically-connected family never support him if he gets off its all thanks to his family.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that at all. Thanks for clarifying.

Sierra Oscar

I just don't think it is believable that Reeva would not have responded to Pistorius when he was shouting for the intruder to leave and for her to call the police. He says that he shouted on more than one occasion for the intruder to leave the house, and continued doing so as he approached the bathroom. He says that he only stopped shouting when he got to the door itself, and that he was shouting to Reeva to tell her to call the police. Why wouldn't Reeva respond to him? It would have been clear to her that he was approaching the bathroom.

And is it believable that Reeva wouldn't scream after being shot the first time? We know that others heard a scream that they attributed to a female voice at that time, but Pistorious has qualified his defence by saying that he would not have heard due to the noise from shooting.

I dunno, just doesn't seem believable but I guess the judge will be the decider of that!

Idbatterim

And is it believable that Reeva wouldn't scream after being shot the first time? We know that others heard a scream that they attributed to a female voice at that time, but Pistorious has qualified his defence by saying that he would not have heard due to the noise from shooting.

I dunno, just doesn't seem believable but I guess the judge will be the decider of that!

the screams according to defence were Oscar Pistorious!

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/03/05/does-oscar-pistorius-scream-like-a-woman/

PRETORIA, South Africa—A cornerstone to South African sprinter Oscar Pistorius’ defense so far is that he screams like a woman.

That is, when the South African sprinter is scared or anxious he can sound like a woman, his lawyers have suggested. Not normally.

“Pistorius could have sounded like a woman in his hysteria,” Mr. Pistorius’ lawyer Barry Roux told a court this week.

Sierra Oscar

Idbatterim wrote: »

the screams according to defence were Oscar Pistorious!

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/03/05/does-oscar-pistorius-scream-like-a-woman/

PRETORIA, South Africa—A cornerstone to South African sprinter Oscar Pistorius’ defense so far is that he screams like a woman.

That is, when the South African sprinter is scared or anxious he can sound like a woman, his lawyers have suggested. Not normally.

“Pistorius could have sounded like a woman in his hysteria,” Mr. Pistorius’ lawyer Barry Roux told a court this week.

Indeed, but is it believable that Reeva would not have responded to his screams in any shape or form? He has said that he was screaming and shouting prior to shooting her, and he did not just start after he had shot her and realized what he had done. He said today that he stopped shouting when he got to the bathroom door and there was a pause before shooting, so he can't claim that he didn't hear Reeva at that stage because he was shouting.

Today was not a good day for Pistorious in court, it just seems like his defence is unraveling. Too many unbelievable claims and an over reliance on trying to blame the police for tampering with evidence. It just seems like it is everyone's fault bar him. Reeva for not replying to him, and the police for trying to fit him up.

BBC News: Oscar Pistorius 'Close to Disaster'

And yet I would conclude that, overall, these past few days have been close to a disaster for Mr Pistorius - and one that largely seems to have been of his own making.

I do feel sorry for his fans, who didn't admire Pistorius in recent years? However his defence this just doesn't add up at all.

sopretty

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Indeed, but is it believable that Reeva would not have responded to his screams in any shape or form? He has said that he was screaming and shouting prior to shooting her, and he did not just start after he had shot her and realized what he had done. He said today that he stopped shouting when he got to the bathroom door and there was a pause before shooting, so he can't claim that he didn't hear Reeva at that stage because he was shouting.

My version is that they had a massive argument, he was shouting at her, she was screaming, she ran to the toilet, he shot her through the door. This explains the evidence better than his version.

sopretty

Also, it would be interesting to know whether Nell will call the ex as a witness for the prosecution. I'd be particularly interested to know whether jamming the door with the baseball bat was his typical behaviour.

Sierra Oscar

sopretty wrote: »

My version is that they had a massive argument, he was shouting at her, she was screaming, she ran to the toilet, he shot her through the door. This explains the evidence better than his version.

Yes, it is much more plausible in my view too.

And I don't think this was premeditated at all, I think he lost his cool and killed her in a blind rage. Some of the other 'instances' we have heard about during the court case would seem to indicate that he had a tendency to get carried away at times. And he hugely regrets what happened, as we can all see from the court case. However he is trying to remove himself from all responsibility for what happened.

stpaddy99

I don't believe him. the man is unstable and gung ho.....his defence is bizarre and unbelievable
the only thing that could save him is his disability as he can lay claim to being more vulnerable because he didn't have his prosthetic legs on. disability can make one more irritable as can all health issues. but of course its a heck of a leap to shooting your girlfriend. the south African culture of guns and violence (towards women especially) is a national disgrace. instinctively I tend not to believe people who cry out hysterically either. he sounded like a mad man worse still he sounded like he was trying to sound like a mad man

Cushie Butterfield

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXRhAAJA_n4

Kunkka

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Yes, it is much more plausible in my view too.

And I don't think this was premeditated at all, I think he lost his cool and killed her in a blind rage. Some of the other 'instances' we have heard about during the court case would seem to indicate that he had a tendency to get carried away at times. And he hugely regrets what happened, as we can all see from the court case. However he is trying to remove himself from all responsibility for what happened.

Exactly what I am thinking.

He lost his temper over something we'll probably never find out about. Reeva was an absolute knockout and had millions of admirers so it could have been fueled by some sort of jealousy. Jealousy is one of the most common emotions that causes violence between couples for a reason and I think it might well be the case here. Being the gun nut he was and the temper he had it got extreme. The bullet holes look like they were fired at someone on the toilet too.... there is just too much against OP to say that he didn't murder her.

So many things just don't add up. Why didn't Reeva respond to the shouting? Why did she lock the door to the bathroom when it was only the two of them in the apartment? His reactions today though have eliminated any sort of doubt I had of his guilt.

RollieFingers

How can anybody believe this fool is innocent? Cry me a river Oscar!

Da Shins Kelly

How anyone could believe anything coming out of his mouth at this stage is beyond me. It's becoming more and more obvious he's a liar every time he opens his mouth. He can't even keep track of what he's saying himself.

sopretty

I thought Nell made an extremely good point today when he said that Pistorious argued his mistakes with the same conviction that he argued his version of events. I.e. that he sounded exactly the same, and had the same 'conviction' when arguing later proven lies as he sounded when stating his version of events.

Merkin

Kunkka wrote: »

Exactly what I am thinking.

He lost his temper over something we'll probably never find out about. Reeva was an absolute knockout and had millions of admirers so it could have been fueled by some sort of jealousy. Jealousy is one of the most common emotions that causes violence between couples for a reason and I think it might well be the case here.

That's what I thought too. I reckon she was on IM or snap chat to some bloke (I think they had had issues with her being friendly with an ex if I recall?) and he copped on to that. Massive argument ensued. She fled to the toilet to get away from him. She brought her phone into the toilet with her (which would explain her having it with her at 3am). Pistorious, in a fit of abject rage, got his gun and either:

a. Deliberately shot at her with the intent to cause harm

b. Recklessly shot at the door to gain access without giving much thought to harming her.

I think a. is more likely given the fact that he was more than familiar with firearms and what impact firing a gun of that caliber would have on impact.

Sierra Oscar

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Yes, it is much more plausible in my view too.

And I don't think this was premeditated at all, I think he lost his cool and killed her in a blind rage.

Doesn't this make it manslaughter rather than murder?

I agree, I don't think there was any planning involved, I think it was pure fury and temper, probably over very little.

sopretty

Candie wrote: »

Doesn't this make it manslaughter rather than murder?

I agree, I don't think there was any planning involved, I think it was pure fury and temper, probably over very little.

I heard a guy talking today on Sky News (some sort of legal correspondent in SA).

There is premeditated murder (you set off in the morning with the intent to murder someone)
There is murder (someone pisses you off and you shoot them dead)
And then there is something called 'residual intent' which is what he implied was applicable to this case at the very least.

brandon_flowers

I was always of the opinion that he was guilty but at the start of the trial I was very much unsure with Barry Roux destroying a lot of the witness evidence and I was coming around to the fact it could be an accident.

But frankly now Pistorius is talking complete horsesh1t. I have just watched all of today's evidence back. He said in the space of two minutes under examination that he was quiet not to give away his position to the "intruder" and he was shouting at Reeva at almost the exact same time to call the police. And then he shot her while she was facing the door. Without her making one sound or saying one word between getting out of bed, slamming the door closed and then standing facing the door from the inside.

I am surprised Nel hasn't picked this up, I assume he will on Monday.

Just to give a comparison we had a rather strong earthquake here on Monday night, first thing I did was call out to my girlfriend to see was she alright and first thing she did was scream at me at exactly the same time. I can't see how through all of this Reeva would have said nothing.

sopretty

brandon_flowers wrote: »

I was always of the opinion that he was guilty but at the start of the trial I was very much unsure with Barry Roux destroying a lot of the witness evidence and I was coming around to the fact it could be an accident.

But frankly now Pistorius is talking complete horsesh1t. I have just watched all of today's evidence back. He said in the space of two minutes under examination that he was quiet not to give away his position to the "intruder" and he was shouting at Reeva at almost the exact same time to call the police. And then he shot her while she was facing the door. Without her making one sound or saying one word between getting out of bed, slamming the door closed and then standing facing the door from the inside.

I am surprised Nel hasn't picked this up, I assume he will on Monday.

Just to give a comparison we had a rather strong earthquake here on Monday night, first thing I did was call out to my girlfriend to see was she alright and first thing she did was scream at me at exactly the same time. I can't see how through all of this Reeva would have said nothing.

Because she would have. Plain and simple.
His version of events is a lie. It's that simple. He starts to cry when he can't think of what to say when his big lie is being picked apart. That would require you to have to go deeper into your lying scenario to try to think what would have happened if the lie theory was happening.
He gets confused then and cries.

brandon_flowers

Yes of course she would have.

But I can't believe Nel didn't pick up the blatant lie/discrepancy between Pistorius being quiet not to give his position away and shouting at Reeva at the same time.

Flippyfloppy

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Yes of course she would have.

But I can't believe Nel didn't pick up the blatant lie/discrepancy between Pistorius being quiet not to give his position away and shouting at Reeva at the same time.

Sometimes what defendants admit in court does not need to be embellished upon anymore !