Blade Runner becomes Blade Gunner **Mod Warning Read OP""

Gosub

seamus wrote: »

Plausibly? You'd break down the door, then throw the bat on the ground. There could be blood on the ground, or it could splatter onto the bat as he tried to move her.

Possible. It would be interesting to hear if there was other matter on the bat. That would be harder to talk away.

davet82

Gosub wrote: »

Only if the head was being pressed against it by the holder of the bat. Why would she keep her head against the inside of a door that is being battered in? Surely it would take more than one blow from a bat to break an internal door, even if it was poor quality, which seems unlikely in this case.

I agree!

seamus wrote: »

Plausibly? You'd break down the door, then throw the bat on the ground. There could be blood on the ground, or it could splatter onto the bat as he tried to move her.

The smashed skull seems to be the problem though!

Wossack

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

The baseball bat hasn't been mentioned in court to my knowledge.

"Mr Pistorius broke the door down with a cricket bat to find his girlfriend shot inside, the statement said." - just from the bbc website

no word of it being bloody mind you, or there being any related injuries to Reeva

opinion guy

davet82 wrote: »

I agree!



The smashed skull seems to be the problem though!

Again was this mentioned in court ?

I would agree if this is true then he is guilty, however so far I've only seen it reported as a leak from 'an insider with knowledge'

Wossack

opinion guy wrote: »

Again was this mentioned in court ?

I would agree if this is true then he is guilty, however so far I've only seen it reported as a leak from 'an insider with knowledge'

If there were related wounds, I really would have thought the prosecution would have mentioned it - but they only say:

"Prosecutor Gerrie Nel told the court that on the evening of 14 February, Mr Pistorius - a double amputee - had got up from bed, put on his prostheses, and fired his gun through the door of the small bathroom."

again just per the bbc site (link)

fishy fishy

opinion guy wrote: »

Yup.
Have they presented evidence of this to the judge ?

don't knnw, but it came from the police department in an interview. Be realistic.

davet82

opinion guy wrote: »

Again was this mentioned in court ?

I would agree if this is true then he is guilty, however so far I've only seen it reported as a leak from 'an insider with knowledge'

I acknowledge your point but it has been mentioned already in this thread, i will try use 'allegedly' or 'as reported' then

Duggys Housemate

davet82 wrote: »

I acknowledge your point but it has been mentioned already in this thread, i will try use 'allegedly' or 'as reported' then

Lets not use it at all. We've had a bail hearing. The prosecution didn't mention it. It didn't happen.

The shooting happened. That's not in dispute.

davet82

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Lets not use it at all. We've had a bail hearing. The prosecution didn't mention it. It didn't happen.

The shooting happened. That's not in dispute.

ok i'll settle with that then

fishy fishy

this is just a bail hearing. its not a trial - not everything has to be mentioned.

sham69

only the 2 of them were in the house.
Why did she lock the bathroom door?

He said he grabbed his gun (in a darkened room) and went to the bathroom door.
Said he let a shout and told his girlfriend to call the police?
Surely if someone is shouting at you to get out of the house thinking you were someone else you would respond in some way?

robinph

sham69 wrote: »

only the 2 of them were in the house.
Why did she lock the bathroom door?

Because she heard him shouting about there being someone in the house maybe?

Rascasse

sham69 wrote: »

only the 2 of them were in the house.
Why did she lock the bathroom door?

He said he grabbed his gun (in a darkened room) and went to the bathroom door.
Said he let a shout and told his girlfriend to call the police?
Surely if someone is shouting at you to get out of the house thinking you were someone else you would respond in some way?

I'd imagine he'd argue that when he left the room for the fan she went to the bathroom (locking the door in the process), he heard someone in the toilet, got his gun from beside his bed, shouted to her and fired.

I'm not troubled so much by the locked door, more so by the fact that he didn't see she wasn't in bed and that she didn't answer back when he shouted.

Ash.J.Williams

ha ha the BBC just had to apologise for playing jimi hendrix "hey joe" after their segment on the Oscar case!!

sham69

Rascasse wrote: »

I'd imagine he'd argue that when he left the room for the fan she went to the bathroom (locking the door in the process), he heard someone in the toilet, got his gun from beside his bed, shouted to her and fired.

I'm not troubled so much by the locked door, more so by the fact that he didn't see she wasn't in bed and that she didn't answer back when he shouted.

what I meant was, I never lock the door in the bathroom in my house unless we have guests etc...

I suppose I don't live in South Africa although Cabra can be quite rough at times

LizT

sham69 wrote: »

what I meant was, I never lock the door in the bathroom in my house unless we have guests etc...

I suppose I don't live in South Africa although Cabra can be quite rough at times

I do, even if the house is empty. It's just force of habit.

fishy fishy

just a thought....

if you are so security conscious, that you would have a gun by your bed, then why would you leave a bathroom window open with ladders nearby?

sham69

LizT wrote: »

I do, even if the house is empty. It's just force of habit.

Woman thing obviously which is fair enough I suppose...

JP Liz V1

Oscar Pistorius has denied murdering his girlfriend, saying he shot her by mistake thinking she was an intruder.
He told a packed bail hearing in Pretoria that he loved Reeva Steenkamp and had never intended to kill her.
Prosecutors accuse Mr Pistorius of premeditated murder. They say he shot his girlfriend dead deliberately, firing through a locked bathroom door.
The hearing came as Ms Steenkamp's family held her funeral.
The case has shocked South Africans and many around the world who admire Oscar Pistorius for overcoming adversity to become a Paralympic champion.
Tuesday's hearing began with the prosecution giving its account of the killing, which it says was premeditated murder by the 26-year-old athlete at his home in Pretoria.
Prosecutor Gerrie Nel told the court that in the early hours of the morning of 14 February, Mr Pistorius - a double amputee - had got up from bed, put on his prostheses, and fired his pistol through the locked door of the bathroom.
He shot four times and hit Ms Steenkamp three times, Mr Nel said.
He added that the defendant later broke down the bathroom door with a cricket bat and carried the body downstairs.

I think she locked herself away in the bathroom as she was afraid of him

davet82

sham69 wrote: »

Woman thing obviously which is fair enough I suppose...

not really i often lock the door when i'm in the house by myself out of habit tbh

robinph

Would always lock the door, if there is a lock. Habit, and it just feels wrong leaving it open.

davet82

fishy fishy wrote: »

just a thought....

if you are so security conscious, that you would have a gun by your bed, then why would you leave a bathroom window open with ladders nearby?

because once you own a gun you don't have to worry about stupid things like that

they'll cook something up to refute any type of sensible questions and it will all depend on will a jury buy it or at least doubt what happened

davet82

robinph wrote: »

Would always lock the door, if there is a lock. Habit, and it just feels wrong leaving it open.

try leave it open and live on the wild side, i did it once :cool:

fishy fishy

davet82 wrote: »

because once you own a gun you don't have to worry about stupid things like that

they'll cook something up to refute any type of sensible questions and it will all depend on will a jury buy it or at least doubt what happened

it seems to be a bit of a watery defense to be honest and the only defense that they can make sound plausible.

I am wondering if this was just an "unknown" would people be so quick to defend.

it's all a bit fishy

he'll be doing time anyway.

Brian017

davet82 wrote: »

because once you own a gun you don't have to worry about stupid things like that

they'll cook something up to refute any type of sensible questions and it will all depend on will a jury buy it or at least doubt what happened

I don't think there's any juries in the SA legal system. Its all down to the magistrate.

davet82

Brian017 wrote: »

I don't think there's any juries in the SA legal system. Its all down to the magistrate.

Really? Well you learn something new everyday.

Rascasse

Brian017 wrote: »

I don't think there's any juries in the SA legal system. Its all down to the magistrate.

This is true, juries were done away with during the apartheid days and now it would be impossible to bring them back (unless they were all upper working and middle classes - which isn't very fair). This bail hearing will be in front a Magistrate, but the actual trial will be in front of a Judge at the High Court.

I wonder how long it will take for the trial to take place and if they will try to expedite it. If he is kept in jail he won't have it easy, and they've said he'd have to use a wheel chair as prosthetics are banned.

Brian017

davet82 wrote: »

Really? Well you learn something new everyday.

Yup just checked they were abolished in 1969.

What really irks about me about the whole situation is that Pistorius and his family are almost playing the victim card, there's hardly a peep about Reeva and her poor family.

sham69

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I think she locked herself away in the bathroom afraid for him

That does seem to be the case..
This will end up like the OJ case....

davet82

Do they televise court proceedings in SA, anybody know?

Da Shins Kelly

That is an absurd defence.

fishy fishy

it seems that only one judge will decide his fate.

did he just say in a statement something along the lines of....i can't believe I am being charged for murder, not to mention premeditative murder..... is this true? If so then :eek::eek::eek:

what does he think he did??

davet82

fishy fishy wrote: »

it seems that only one judge will decide his fate.

did he just say in a statement something along the lines of....i can't believe I am being charged for murder, not to mention premeditative murder..... is this true? If so then :eek::eek::eek:

what does he think he did??

he said he was 'mortified' about what he had done, weird choice of words imo

ebixa82

He'll obviously pretend he can't remember anything as he was legless at the time...

robinph

davet82 wrote: »

Do they televise court proceedings in SA, anybody know?

Sometimes, but they have already ruled that there is to be no recording or photography when the magistrate/ judge is present.

Gosub

ebixa82 wrote: »

He'll obviously pretend he can't remember anything...

Oops

Rascasse

davet82 wrote: »

Do they televise court proceedings in SA, anybody know?

Not when I lived there (apart from the Truth and Reconcilliation commission). They were allowed to film when the court wasn't in session though. Not sure if it's changed since.

Aidric

Anyone else think the courtroom looks like a Jerry Springer set?

fishy fishy

davet82 wrote: »

he said he was 'mortified' about what he had done, weird choice of words imo

really?? :eek:

davet82

fishy fishy wrote: »

really?? :eek:

Oscar Pistorius has said he was "absolutely mortified at the death of my beloved Reeva" during a bail hearing. He denies the charge of premeditated murder, claiming he mistook her for an intruder.

scarlet for me, i thought it was a robber but it was really me bird

seamus

Primary extracts of his court statement, as reported by Reuters

By about 2200 on Feb. 13 we were in our bedroom. She was doing yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier.

I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm - a 9 mm Parabellum - underneath my bed when I went to bed at night.

During the early morning hours of 14 Feb. 2013 I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised someone was in the bathroom.

I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There were no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetics legs on, I have mobility on my stumps.

I believed someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9 mm pistol from underneath my bed.

On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.

I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.

It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window.

As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself.
I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet, we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.

I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to call the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance.

Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on the light. Reeva was not responding.

When I reached the bed, I realized that Reeva was not in the bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet.

I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting on to the balcony and screamed for help.

I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must have then turned on the light. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.

I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander, who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.

I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to the hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down, Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.

I am absolutely mortified by the events and the devastating loss of my beloved Reeva.

With the benefit of hindsight, I believe that Reeva went to the toilet when I went out on the balcony to bring the fan in. I cannot bear to think of the suffering that I have caused her and her family, knowing how much she was loved.

I also know that the events of that tragic night were as I had described them and that in due course I have no doubt the police and the expert investigators will bear this out.

I have no idea what to make of this. There's something really off about it.

Ash.J.Williams

i was like totally morto

bootybouncer

who locks the bathroom door during the middle of the night from the inside and doesnt respond to their name........................................horse**** stumpy, the man is a murderer

davet82

bootybouncer wrote: »

who locks the bathroom door during the middle of the night from the inside and doesnt respond to their name........................................horse**** stumpy, the man is a murderer

the defence will argue a frightened woman who also thought there was an intruder

Ash.J.Williams

seamus wrote: »

Primary extracts of his court statement, as reported by Reuters



I have no idea what to make of this. There's something really off about it.

that statement makes no sense whatsoever! So he was in bed with his girl, he went onto the balcony to bring in a fan, she goes to the loo without making a sound until she gets there...he hears the bathroom and assumes it's an intruder without so much as a second thought for his girfriend and opens fire on the door???
99% of men would not have acted until they made sure their partner was safe...like "shhh did you hear that??" or a "i think there's someone downstairs?"

davet82

seamus wrote: »

Primary extracts of his court statement, as reported by Reuters



I have no idea what to make of this. There's something really off about it.

sounds very choreographed by a good legal team imo, i'd love to hear from a professional when it comes to making statements what their opinion is on it.

davet82

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

that statement makes no sense whatsoever! So he was in bed with his girl, he went onto the balcony to bring in a fan, she goes to the loo without making a sound until she gets there...he hears the bathroom and assumes it's an intruder without so much as a second thought for his girfriend and opens fire on the door???
99% of men would not have acted until they made sure their partner was safe...like "shhh did you hear that??" or a "i think there's someone downstairs?"

but it may not be an impossible chain of events just how unlikely will be up to the prosectution to show.

the statement gives the bear minimun and leaves room for maunover to tweek the story i think even if it sounds totally ludacris to you or me

LizT

I just don't understand why your first instinct would be to fire the gun, not once, but four times at the door. It really doesn't make any sense to me. I know SA has a much higher rate of crime etc and people are rightly paranoid about it but I just can't fathom why you would fire shots at a door.

Would he not have checked if she was awake to call the police if he thought she was still in bed?

April O Neill

When I reached the bed, I realized that Reeva was not in the bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet.

I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting on to the balcony and screamed for help.

This bit is WTF?

Reeva wasn't in the bed, and someone was in the bathroom. Now who could that be????

robinph

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

that statement makes no sense whatsoever! So he was in bed with his girl, he went onto the balcony to bring in a fan, she goes to the loo without making a sound until she gets there...he hears the bathroom and assumes it's an intruder without so much as a second thought for his girfriend and opens fire on the door???
99% of men would not have acted until they made sure their partner was safe...like "shhh did you hear that??" or a "i think there's someone downstairs?"

And what about men who are limited to hopping about on their knees? How well will they hear the partner making their way to the loo as he drags a fan into the room on his knees? How good a view of the bed would he have to be able to tell in the dark if there was a person asleep there or it was just an empty crumpled pile of sheets? If you are limited to getting about on your knees and an intruder is in your house then you will be wanting to shoot them before they get a chance to approach you as well.