kilkee bay hotel

Lobby Con Shine

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

The fact the town is 75% unoccupied can't help. Awash with cheap self catering and I'm guessing there are 100 b&b beds in the general vicinity.

There can't be many seaside towns around the country that aren't "awash" with holiday homes. The Seaside Resort Renewal Scheme saw to that. It was introduced in the 1990s which led to the (over) building of cheap holiday homes due to the tax incentives.

There is no doubt that many, if not most, of them are poorly-built and that is a shame but from a Kilkee point of view, the scheme led to an alteration in the typical visitor to the town. While many (not most) of the tourists to Kilkee before the scheme were from Limerick, the fact that many of the homes were purchased by Dubliners has led to a change in the demographic of the visitor to Kilkee.

Lest there be any misconception of Kilkee's status as a resort (as suggested by Double D), the place is still packed to the rafters every summer. A well run hotel would certainly clean up during the summer. The question is whether there would be enough business for it to survive during the winter months and I am convinced that there is plenty of business for the Kilkee Bay Hotel to prosper if done correctly.

irish coldplayer

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

A well run hotel would certainly clean up during the summer. The question is whether there would be enough business for it to survive during the winter months and I am convinced that there is plenty of business for the Kilkee Bay Hotel to prosper if done correctly.

If it was such a no brainer then why did all the hotels in Kilkee go bust? unable to even achieve an operating profit let alone service debt.
By comparison none of the Hotels in lahinch are closed down...

Lobby Con Shine

irish coldplayer wrote: »

If it was such a no brainer then why did all the hotels in Kilkee go bust? unable to even achieve an operating profit let alone service debt.
By comparison none of the Hotels in lahinch are closed down...

You haven't the foggiest idea what they achieved so don't go on like you do.

Pretty much from the outset, the two recently-built hotels (Kilkee Bay and Ocean Cove) opened during the winter only so they didn't really give it a chance. Both were purchased by investment syndicates for tax purposes. The management changed on an almost yearly basis.

I have not suggested that it is a "no brainer" - that would seem to suggest that it's easy. Making a hotel work requires hard work and long hours, that's why I have prefaced my comments with the words "properly run" or "well run". I don't think anyone would describe the abovementioned hotels as having fitted that description.

kollegeknight

One story from a few weeks ago that will explain why the hotel struggles.

My wife and I stopped in for lunch not wanting to look for parking on the street in the town.

Two other small tables arrived at the same time. Two waitresses. 5 minutes to take our drink order(she got wrong). 15 minutes to take our food order.

I ordered the bangers and mash- two pork and black pudding sausages on a bed of mash with a red onion jus. (Sounds good). OH ordered chicken with sauce on side.

35 minutes later just when we were about to leave, our food came out. OH got her chicken with cold gravy all over it and the waitress landed a kids plate of chips and sausages in front of me. I presumed she got the order mixed up with a kid at another table. I explained to her my order.
She goes back to the kitchen, wife's meal was not edible. And the waitress comes out to ask me to order something else.

I asked for the drinks bill and as I was paying 16€ (charged for the uneaten chicken dinner) the chef comes out smirking and turns for the kitchen when he say me paying.

I am relatively local and do like to go to restaurants on the coast but will go nowhere near that place again.

A business will not and should not survive with that service or food quality.

Red Clover

blowin3 wrote: »

I lived outside Kilkee for a number of years 5 I think (blanked it out). It was with out doubt the worst time in my life especially if you are not from there "blowin". The business only want your money and lot of the others are just booze and drugs. Not a nice place have not been back or will be back in that dump again.

What a sad little person. Lived in a place for five years and wants to blank it out of the mind.
One thing that can be said about Kilkee is that it doesn't do blowins. It has been a holiday resort for over 200 years and welcoming visitors is in its DNA. This August week-end there are probably 15,000 people in the town all having a good time. Your bitter little post says more about you than it does about Kilkee.

blowin3

Hmmm thanks for the comments red! As I said my personal feelings from some one who had the pleasure of living there. But if you are local your comment " Kilkee does not do blowins" says a lot about what ye think of people who were not lucky to have been born or a is a local as ye call each other. Many a time I heard the comment thank God the blowins are gone home and we have it back to our selfs. Any way sorry for hijacking this tread as its about hotels etc. so won't be making any more comments about Kilkee .

Lady Chatterton

Mod Warning

Red Clover - Attack the post not the poster.

Red Clover

There has been quite a bit of discussion about hotels in Kilkee and not all the posts seem to have the facts.
There are 5 hotels in Kilkee. (although the word 'hotel' is a protected title and only those premises registered with Failte Ireland are legally entitled to use the name - if this was enforced it would halve the number of hotels in the country). At one time four of the five ran all year round.
Stella Maris: Open all year round. Family run and long established.
Kilkee Bay Hotel: Was built under the Seaside Renewal Scheme but once the 10 year tax break was up it changed hands a number of times. Ran successfully all year round in the early years when there was proper professional management. Now open for only 3 months of the summer.
Halpin's Hotel: Up to the mid 2000s was the best hotel in the town and open all year round. With collapse of the property market, associated hotels in Dublin dragged the group down. It has now been closed for the past couple of years.
Marine Hotel: This hotel is one of the oldest in Kilkee having been built in the 1870s. It was renovated under the Seaside Renewal Scheme but no investment in personnel or marketing. Open for about 5 months of the year.
Ocean Cove Hotel: Was built under the Seaside Renewal Scheme as part of a larger development of 60 holiday homes on the site of the old Atlantic Hotel. Was leased to the Lynch Hotel group and was all year round for a year and then only seasonal. Since the Lynch Group left it has been closed and has deteriorated rapidly. Clare Co Council should insist on the building being maintained under the Derelict Buildings legislation as the five story building is an eyesore.

I am sure the same story can be told about many towns in Ireland especially the premises which were opened for tax purposes rather by professional hoteliers.

Lobby Con Shine

Red Clover wrote: »

There has been quite a bit of discussion about hotels in Kilkee and not all the posts seem to have the facts.
There are 5 hotels in Kilkee. (although the word 'hotel' is a protected title and only those premises registered with Failte Ireland are legally entitled to use the name - if this was enforced it would halve the number of hotels in the country). At one time four of the five ran all year round.
Stella Maris: Open all year round. Family run and long established.
Kilkee Bay Hotel: Was built under the Seaside Renewal Scheme but once the 10 year tax break was up it changed hands a number of times. Ran successfully all year round in the early years when there was proper professional management. Now open for only 3 months of the summer.
Halpin's Hotel: Up to the mid 2000s was the best hotel in the town and open all year round. With collapse of the property market, associated hotels in Dublin dragged the group down. It has now been closed for the past couple of years.
Marine Hotel: This hotel is one of the oldest in Kilkee having been built in the 1870s. It was renovated under the Seaside Renewal Scheme but no investment in personnel or marketing. Open for about 5 months of the year.
Ocean Cove Hotel: Was built under the Seaside Renewal Scheme as part of a larger development of 60 holiday homes on the site of the old Atlantic Hotel. Was leased to the Lynch Hotel group and was all year round for a year and then only seasonal. Since the Lynch Group left it has been closed and has deteriorated rapidly. Clare Co Council should insist on the building being maintained under the Derelict Buildings legislation as the five story building is an eyesore.

I am sure the same story can be told about many towns in Ireland especially the premises which were opened for tax purposes rather by professional hoteliers.

There are not 5 hotel in Kilkee.

Halpins and Ocean Cove has been closed for years. A closed hotel is about as usfeul as an ashtray on a motorbike.

Anyway, I think the point of the more recent posts on this thread relates to the viability or otherwise of the Kilkee Bay Hotel (or any other regular-sized hotel) on an all-year-round basis.

I think it's viable to have at least one hotel in addition to Stella Maris during the winter but only on the basis that the owner runs it and earns their living from it.

As you rightly point out, many of the hotels were bought for investment purposes and it's no surprise that they either fail entirely (Ocean Cove) or choose to restrict opening to the obviously profitable time of the year (Marine, Kilkee Bay).

My point is that Kilkee, like most small towns in Ireland at present, needs employment. The Wild Atlantic Way and the Loop Head project are two recent additions which add to the reasons, in my view, why the Kilkee Bay Hotel would be viable in the right hands.

Lobby Con Shine

The Ocean Cove Hotel is currently on the market.

The auctioneers are taking private tender bids up until (I think) the 28th November.

It would be interesting to see the level of damage that has been done to the property since it ceased trading. The cost of the renovations could surpass the purchase price.

I really hope the hotel will be bought by an owner/occupier or someone with an interest in making it work rather than some fly-by-night looking to make a quick buck.

I firmly believe the purchase of this hotel represents a massive opportunity for employment in Kilkee.

JCX BXC

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

The Ocean Cove Hotel is currently on the market.

The auctioneers are taking private tender bids up until (I think) the 28th November.

It would be interesting to see the level of damage that has been done to the property since it ceased trading. The cost of the renovations could surpass the purchase price.

I really hope the hotel will be bought by an owner/occupier or someone with an interest in making it work rather than some fly-by-night looking to make a quick buck.

I firmly believe the purchase of this hotel represents a massive opportunity for employment in Kilkee.

After a long hour worth of a dig through the internet I found a link:
http://www.property.ie/commercial-property/Former-Ocean-Cove-Hotel-Kilkee-Co-Clare/210120/

Lobby Con Shine

Carnacalla wrote: »

After a long hour worth of a dig through the internet I found a link:
http://www.property.ie/commercial-property/Former-Ocean-Cove-Hotel-Kilkee-Co-Clare/210120/

Well spotted. I tried a Google search but nothing came up. I heard it was for sale from someone down the town.

I wonder why it didn't go into an Allsop Auction before end of 2014 to take ccount of the CGT exemption.

Anyway, we'll soon know who the new owners are. Donald Bloody Trump probably.

JCX BXC

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

Well spotted. I tried a Google search but nothing came up. I heard it was for sale from someone down the town.

I wonder why it didn't go into an Allsop Auction before end of 2014 to take ccount of the CGT exemption.

Anyway, we'll soon know who the new owners are. Donald Bloody Trump probably.

Donald trump? You would have a better chance of barrack Obama coming into buy that. It would be completely senseless for him to buy it.

But as you said we will soon see who the new owners are. Obama. Trump or someone else

JonEBGud

Over sixteen K Per Annum for the mast?

Nice little earner.

6 months of the year plus that.

Possible? or Not?

JCX BXC

JonEBGud wrote: »

Over sixteen K Per Annum for the mast?

Nice little earner.

6 months of the year plus that.

Possible? or Not?

If you market it right then I would say it viable.

Lobby Con Shine

JonEBGud wrote: »

Over sixteen K Per Annum for the mast?

Nice little earner.

6 months of the year plus that.

Possible? or Not?

Don't mind this "6 months of the year" talk.

There is a market for a 12 month hotel. Kilkee is smack bang in the middle of the Wild Atlantic Way. The current owner of the Kilkee Bay Hotel clearly isn't interested in opening for 12 months which leaves the door open for the Ocean Cove Hotel (I really hope the new owner renames it at least! I would go back to the "Atlantic Hotel" for old time's sake).

Think of the bus tours you could get in there. With a well-run restaurant and bar you could make a good living from it. No doubt about that.

The hotel has amazing views and is in a great location right beside the Diving Centre which is busy for most weekends of the year. The divers alone would give you some business during the winter.

One of the drawbacks is that I think the hotel does not have a function room. The Kilkee Bay Hotel has but it doesn't get used. Aside from Doonbeg, there is no decent-sized hotel in the triangle between Loop Head, Lahinch/Liscannor and Ennis. That is a large chunk of the county without a hotel.

The hotel also has apartments next door which would take away from the hotel but at least that's guaranteed custom for barfood during the summer months.

The real drawback, however, would be the cost of repairs. You might get the hotel at a knockdown price but how much would it cost to bring it up to standard?

Red Clover

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

Don't mind this "6 months of the year" talk.

There is a market for a 12 month hotel. Kilkee is smack bang in the middle of the Wild Atlantic Way. The current owner of the Kilkee Bay Hotel clearly isn't interested in opening for 12 months which leaves the door open for the Ocean Cove Hotel (I really hope the new owner renames it at least! I would go back to the "Atlantic Hotel" for old time's sake).

Think of the bus tours you could get in there. With a well-run restaurant and bar you could make a good living from it. No doubt about that.

The hotel has amazing views and is in a great location right beside the Diving Centre which is busy for most weekends of the year. The divers alone would give you some business during the winter.

One of the drawbacks is that I think the hotel does not have a function room. The Kilkee Bay Hotel has but it doesn't get used. Aside from Doonbeg, there is no decent-sized hotel in the triangle between Loop Head, Lahinch/Liscannor and Ennis. That is a large chunk of the county without a hotel.

The hotel also has apartments next door which would take away from the hotel but at least that's guaranteed custom for barfood during the summer months.

The real drawback, however, would be the cost of repairs. You might get the hotel at a knockdown price but how much would it cost to bring it up to standard?

This post sums up the position exactly.

elastico

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

One of the drawbacks is that I think the hotel does not have a function room. The Kilkee Bay Hotel has but it doesn't get used. Aside from Doonbeg, there is no decent-sized hotel in the triangle between Loop Head, Lahinch/Liscannor and Ennis. That is a large chunk of the county without a hotel.

It does have a function room. You are also forgetting the Bellbridge and Armada hotels in Spanish point also have function rooms.

Either way if an owner occupier buys it then it can be made work.

Lobby Con Shine

elastico wrote: »

It does have a function room. You are also forgetting the Bellbridge and Armada hotels in Spanish point also have function rooms.

Either way if an owner occupier buys it then it can be made work.

You're right, thanks for that. They're still a fair distance away from Kilkee.

Edit: Are you sure it has a function room? The link above mentions banqueting facilities but I seem to recall just a small restaurant to the left of the front entrance and the bar on the right. I think the picture of the large room in the link is of the bar witht he tables/chairs removed. Could be wrong though.

Lobby Con Shine

The deadline for tender offers was the 28th November.

Anyone heard owt?

Red Clover

Nothing yet. Maybe none of the tenders were high enough? Or the auctioneers have to get back to one or more tenderers to elaborate on their offers. Or maybe they have had no offer (quite possible).

Lobby Con Shine

Red Clover wrote: »

Nothing yet. Maybe none of the tenders were high enough? Or the auctioneers have to get back to one or more tenderers to elaborate on their offers. Or maybe they have had no offer (quite possible).

I see DTZ were guiding €750,000.

Tee hee hee.

Palmach

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

I see DTZ were guiding €750,000.

Tee hee hee.

I spoke to someone who spoke to them. They are willing to talk.:D

Red Clover

Palmach wrote: »

I spoke to someone who spoke to them. They are willing to talk.:D

If anyone wants to talk to them!

JCX BXC

It seems past employees love the hotel.

mashtobi

Carnacalla wrote: »

It seems past employees love the hotel.

I was talkin about ocean cove..thats if ya saw my post. Kilkee Bay Hotel I dont have no time for..but yes, standards do be met there..and they did hire back most of the original staff.

mashtobi

mashtobi wrote: »

I was talkin about ocean cove..thats if ya saw my post. Kilkee Bay Hotel I dont have no time for..but yes, standards do be met there..and they did hire back most of the original staff.

They advertise for positions..but they dont really hire new staff.

JCX BXC

mashtobi wrote: »

I was talkin about ocean cove..thats if ya saw my post. Kilkee Bay Hotel I dont have no time for..but yes, standards do be met there..and they did hire back most of the original staff.

I understood which hotel. I didnt have time to read your post, but happily it was stored in my emails.

As for the Kilkee bay, I personally know 4 ex employees and 3 were hired back, the other was employed elsewhere.

Lobby Con Shine

What's the word on the street for a buyer for the Ocean Cove?

Palmach

Kilkee Bay Hotel looking for staff. Reopening this month under Sonas Hotels which is run by the well known Michael Lynch.

JCX BXC

Under the management of Sonas Hotel, a group owned by the previous owner of the now defunct Lunch Hotels Group.

Red Clover

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

What's the word on the street for a buyer for the Ocean Cove?

A development company is interested and has put a bid on the premises. It's plan was to convert the hotel into 20 self-catering apartments for sale. The project developers have run into trouble with Clare Co Council planning dept and local tourist interests who are not keen to see the local hotel infrastructure degraded further. There is a shortage of overnight hotel and B&B accommodation in Kilkee and in a recent report 'Towards a Better Kilkee' drawn up by Clare Co council it was stated that planning would not be given to any project converting present overnight accommodation into self-catering units. All local tourist bodies are of like mind.
Speculative development did no favours for Kilkee in the past and in this case the development company can make one and a half million euro ( 3 minus one and a half) profit in the space of two years putting the hotel underbidder at a major disadvantage.

Lobby Con Shine

Red Clover wrote: »

A development company is interested and has put a bid on the premises. It's plan was to convert the hotel into 20 self-catering apartments for sale. The project developers have run into trouble with Clare Co Council planning dept and local tourist interests who are not keen to see the local hotel infrastructure degraded further. There is a shortage of overnight hotel and B&B accommodation in Kilkee and in a recent report 'Towards a Better Kilkee' drawn up by Clare Co council it was stated that planning would not be given to any project converting present overnight accommodation into self-catering units. All local tourist bodies are of like mind.
Speculative development did no favours for Kilkee in the past and in this case the development company can make one and a half million euro ( 3 minus one and a half) profit in the space of two years putting the hotel underbidder at a major disadvantage.

Thanks for the update.

Well done Clare Co Co. That hotel is on a prime site and there will be someone interested in buying it as a going concern if the price is right.

Unfortunately, it seems that the development company hadn't thought about the acquisition for more than three seconds and now won't sell to an actual hotelier for less than the exhorbitant price they stupidly paid for it, thinking they'd make a quick buck and to hell with those who live in the town and the amenities they might enjoy.

JCX BXC

Just back from a visit to kilkee, its getting busy there! I just can't help thinking that if there was a large hotel open with proper advertising in a place like Limerick it'd be even busier!

Lobby Con Shine

Carnacalla wrote: »

Just back from a visit to kilkee, its getting busy there! I just can't help thinking that if there was a large hotel open with proper advertising in a place like Limerick it'd be even busier!

A properly-run and established hotel would make a killing this weekend.

Those in town just for a day trip would automatically go to the bar there for sandwiches etc as they would know it was open.

As things stand, Stella Maris is the only hotel guaranteed to be open. It'll do very well as a result.

JCX BXC

Stella Maris doesn't have that true hotel feel imo, its too much of a pub. It has very few rooms and most people would confuse it from your average B&B. Kilkee needs a proper full service hotel and as you said it would make a "killing" this weekend. Especially something like the Ocean Cove (Although it may be a little hard to access for Tourists unknown to the place, that stupid road is closed 1 year 2 months).

On another note, I wonder why the Kilkee Bay didn't open this weekend and are waiting until the may weekend.

Red Clover

Carnacalla wrote: »

On another note, I wonder why the Kilkee Bay didn't open this weekend and are waiting until the may weekend.

I suspect that there is quite a bit of maintenance to do because that has been neglected in the past. As well as that staff have to be recruited and trained (hopefully). For the last three years this hotel has opened on Whit week-end with absolutely no preparatory work. No connection either by phone or email to answer queries or take bookings. It surprises me that the new management haven't got these minimum lines of communication up and running. You can't fill a hotel by just opening the front door.

JCX BXC

Red Clover wrote: »

I suspect that there is quite a bit of maintenance to do because that has been neglected in the past. As well as that staff have to be recruited and trained (hopefully). For the last three years this hotel has opened on Whit week-end with absolutely no preparatory work. No connection either by phone or email to answer queries or take bookings. It surprises me that the new management haven't got these minimum lines of communication up and running. You can't fill a hotel by just opening the front door.

Especially the experienced MR. Lynch.

Didn't it get a new roof last year?

Red Clover

Carnacalla wrote: »

Stella Maris doesn't have that true hotel feel imo, its too much of a pub. It has very few rooms and most people would confuse it from your average B&B. Kilkee needs a proper full service hotel and as you said it would make a "killing" this weekend. Especially something like the Ocean Cove (Although it may be a little hard to access for Tourists unknown to the place, that stupid road is closed 1 year 2 months).

I think you are bit unfair to the Stella Maris Hotel. It has 16 bedrooms and caters for a wide cross-section of tourists. It has a wonderful veranda with a Kilkee bay view where they serve breakfast, lunches, snacks and dinners at night. It is a family run hotel and is almost like a social centre for the locals. The pub part has a low profile. But I agree with you that Kilkee needs a major hotel (or two). Tour operators regularly look for hotels with 30 or more rooms to cater for bus loads. This lack of accommodation is hindering tourism in the town.

JCX BXC

Oh it's great to have Stella maris! Its open year round and caters for the flow of year round tourists, but Kilkee as you said need a lot more.
Also, I'm not sure about it being a "social centre". There's plenty more bars that locals go to.

JOSman

Don't forget Hickey's. I like that place, nice staff and the food is great.

Heading down now.

Red Clover

JOSman wrote: »

Don't forget Hickey's. I like that place, nice staff and the food is great.

Heading down now.

Of course I like Hickie's too but I think the debate on this thread is about Kilkee hotels. Ten years ago there were five reasonable sized hotels, Marine, Ocean Cove, Kilkee Bay, Halpin's and of course Stella Maris and all were doing reasonably well. Once the 10 year tax break ran out the owners were more interested in other tax break opportunities elsewhere. This left Kilkee with some fine hotel premises but little in the way of active hoteliers. If that could be reversed it would make a huge difference to Kilkee but also to the Loop head and West Clare area economies.

Lobby Con Shine

Red Clover wrote: »

Of course I like Hickie's too but I think the debate on this thread is about Kilkee hotels. Ten years ago there were five reasonable sized hotels, Marine, Ocean Cove, Kilkee Bay, Halpin's and of course Stella Maris and all were doing reasonably well. Once the 10 year tax break ran out the owners were more interested in other tax break opportunities elsewhere. This left Kilkee with some fine hotel premises but little in the way of active hoteliers. If that could be reversed it would make a huge difference to Kilkee but also to the Loop head and West Clare area economies.

Spot on.

cocoman

Any update on the Kilkee Bay Hotel?
Has anyone been there lately?

JOSman

Red Clover wrote: »

Of course I like Hickie's too but I think the debate on this thread is about Kilkee hotels. Ten years ago there were five reasonable sized hotels, Marine, Ocean Cove, Kilkee Bay, Halpin's and of course Stella Maris and all were doing reasonably well. Once the 10 year tax break ran out the owners were more interested in other tax break opportunities elsewhere. This left Kilkee with some fine hotel premises but little in the way of active hoteliers. If that could be reversed it would make a huge difference to Kilkee but also to the Loop head and West Clare area economies.

What size is a hotel in your book?

16 bedrooms, restaurant and bar is not a hotel?

Red Clover

cocoman wrote: »

Any update on the Kilkee Bay Hotel?
Has anyone been there lately?

Kilkee Bay Hotel is open for business. It has been leased, we are led to believe, by Michael B Lynch of West County Hotel fame. Already is has more of a 'cut' of hotel about it than previously. Hopefully with the experience of the new management it will become a welcome addition to the accommodation stock in Kilkee.

Red Clover

JOSman wrote: »

What size is a hotel in your book?

16 bedrooms, restaurant and bar is not a hotel?

A hotel is defined by Failte Ireland registration and the stars (1 to 5) are allocated by that body. In a welcome development Failte Ireland has changed the criteria for B&Bs starting in 2016. The previous standards were not about service but about the physical structure. Now the emphasis will be on the level of visitor satisfaction. Maybe some of the B & B owners will come back in the Failte Ireland fold now that approval will be less restrictive.

Sully777

Red Clover wrote: »

Kilkee Bay Hotel is open for business. It has been leased, we are led to believe, by Michael B Lynch of West County Hotel fame. Already is has more of a 'cut' of hotel about it than previously. Hopefully with the experience of the new management it will become a welcome addition to the accommodation stock in Kilkee.

Unfortunately more like the kiss of death given his track record in the Hotel industry.

Red Clover

Sully777 wrote: »

Unfortunately more like the kiss of death given his track record in the Hotel industry.

Well, we will give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Hopefully we will be surprised.

Lobby Con Shine

Any word on what's happening with the Ocean Cove Hotel?

From what I have heard, Clare Co Co, thankfully, put the kibosh on the recent investors' plans to turn it into apartments. Has the story moved on from there?

Also, has the Kilkee Bay Hotel opened yet? If so, what are the reports like?