kilkee bay hotel

Red Clover

Kilkee Bay Hotel is open and flourishing. There is at least one tour bus there every night. Passing today (Whit Bank Holiday Monday) the car park is full to capacity. So it seems, at last, somebody is doing something right.
The Ocean Cove is up for sale again and was advertised in the Irish Times last week. Hopefully a proper hotelier will purchase and develop it to its full potential.

finbarrk

Sully777 wrote: »

Unfortunately more like the kiss of death given his track record in the Hotel industry.

It wasn't the Hotel industry that led to his downfall.

Lobby Con Shine

Does anyone know what's happening with Murphy's Pub in the Square in Kilkee?

It's had a "For Sale" sign for several years.

Does it still have a licence or is it going to be knocked down and developed into apartments like everything else in the place?

Red Clover

Murphy's Bar is still up for sale. The Commissioners for Donations and Charitable Bequests have the sale of it and my understanding is that they don't realise that we have had a serious drop in property prices and they are still looking for the same 2006 price (which was exorbitant even by 2006 standards). I suppose someone is sitting in an office in Dublin and doesn't have a clue where the business is or what the property is like. I believe it still has a licence but the building must be in bad condition. It hasn't opened as a pub since the 1950s. The bar was built in the late 19th century and it remains the same to this day with all the old fittings and counter, the non-existent toilets and the ladies snug.If someone could buy it at the right price it would attract a huge clientele (similar to the Greyhound Bar in Kilkee). It is a listed building so it can't be knocked down. The only problem is that it will probably fall down.

Lobby Con Shine

I wasn't back west over the Christmas. A few questions for those on here who seem to be knowledgeable about these things:-

1. Did the Kilkee Bay Hotel open over the Christmas?

2. What's happening with the Ocean Cove Hotel? Who are the new owners and are they going to open a hotel soon?

3. What's happening with Halpin's Hotel?

4. Was the Marine Hotel open over the Christmas? What's happening there?

In case you are wondering, I am not a hotelier competitor trying to sneakily get information, I just happen to think there is a real market for a family run hotel in the town - there's been a lot of shadow boxing and talk but so far only the Kilkee Bay has been taken over and the Stella Maris is the only hotel open all year round. If I was a hotel manager (which I am not) with a few quid (which I don't have!) and looking for a fresh start, I would definitely look at opening a small hotel in the town.

The same applies to chefs. A decently-run restaurant would make proper money.

Red Clover

Lobby Con Shine, i will try and answer your questions as accurately as I can:
1. No, Kilkee Bay Hotel did not open for Christmas. I believe they will be re-opening on St Patrick's Day next for the season.
2. The Ocean Cove Hotel is up for sale again. I am led to believe a well-known hotelier is interested. Let's hope so.
3. Halpin's Hotel is a conundrum. It was for sale in the last Allsop auction but was withdrawn a day or two before. Either it was sold privately or else Pat Halpin managed to get one over on the bank. The hotel was for sale but not the derelict building next to it, known as Woulfe's, and owned by Halpin's Hotel. I was told (I don't believe everything I am told) that the two premises are in hock to two different banks so that is why the two buildings are being sold separately. It would be good to see something happen. Pat Halpin was a very fine hotelier. His expansion in the property market in Dublin dragged down his two well-run hotels.
4. The Marine Hotel did not open at all this year. The owner Pat Hoare says he will sell if he gets the right price. If it says closed it will never get the 'right' price. It is an old building and will deteriorate if left closed for too long.
5. You are right about the business opportunity for a good hotelier to run a hotel in Kilkee. The emphasis is on a good hotelier. We have had too may fly-by-nights. You are also correct about the opening for a good restaurant. There is a premises in O Curry St which has planning permission to open as a restaurant ( Italian chef from Galway?). This expired earlier this year but re-applied for renewal of the permission which I believe was granted. This would be a good development if it gets off the ground.

Lobby Con Shine

Red Clover wrote: »

Lobby Con Shine, i will try and answer your questions as accurately as I can:
1. No, Kilkee Bay Hotel did not open for Christmas. I believe they will be re-opening on St Patrick's Day next for the season.
2. The Ocean Cove Hotel is up for sale again. I am led to believe a well-known hotelier is interested. Let's hope so.
3. Halpin's Hotel is a conundrum. It was for sale in the last Allsop auction but was withdrawn a day or two before. Either it was sold privately or else Pat Halpin managed to get one over on the bank. The hotel was for sale but not the derelict building next to it, known as Woulfe's, and owned by Halpin's Hotel. I was told (I don't believe everything I am told) that the two premises are in hock to two different banks so that is why the two buildings are being sold separately. It would be good to see something happen. Pat Halpin was a very fine hotelier. His expansion in the property market in Dublin dragged down his two well-run hotels.
4. The Marine Hotel did not open at all this year. The owner Pat Hoare says he will sell if he gets the right price. If it says closed it will never get the 'right' price. It is an old building and will deteriorate if left closed for too long.
5. You are right about the business opportunity for a good hotelier to run a hotel in Kilkee. The emphasis is on a good hotelier. We have had too may fly-by-nights. You are also correct about the opening for a good restaurant. There is a premises in O Curry St which has planning permission to open as a restaurant ( Italian chef from Galway?). This expired earlier this year but re-applied for renewal of the permission which I believe was granted. This would be a good development if it gets off the ground.

Thanks for the update.

So, aside from the Kilkee Bay Hotel, there's been little movement for several years on the other hotels which are lying idle. That is a shame.

The state of play with the Ocean Cove is particularly disappointing. It requires serious investment but it could be one of the most impressive and imposing hotels on the Wild Atlantic Way if done correctly.

Jim Martin

I visit Kilkee regularly (weekly) & I'd say that in the winter there is just not the business these days (even in the summer, if the weather's bad, there isn't either!). The Stella Maris just about seems to be holding it's own & the Diamond Rocks restaurant does very good business with it seems, mainly locals on Sunday afternoons but they're not open in the week in the winter. Halpins is beginning to look very sorry for itself & is just adding to the general air of decreptitude which, unfortunately hangs around the town with all the closed hotels/restaurants!

Red Clover

Jim, I can't agree with you that there is not enough business for a hotel(s) in Kilkee or anywhere else. Hotels don't depend on the locals to stay in their property. A well run marketing campaign will fill a hotel no matter how remote. Some of the busiest hotels in the country are in areas with very little local activity such Kelly's of Rosslare, Inchidoney Island Hotel in west Cork, Sandhill Hotel in Rossnowlagh in Donegal. A good hotelier will fill his hotel whatever the season. In Kilkee there is much to do for the winter: birdwatching in Poulnasherry Bay or Ross Bay, cycling on Loophead cycle-way, many official walks either along the cliffs or in bogs (Tullaher), or follow the Heritage Trail for which Loophead won gold for the best presentation of heritage in the world at the recent hosting of the world travel fair in London. There is business out there but it takes a good person to bring it in.

Tom44

Red Clover wrote: »

Jim, I can't agree with you that there is not enough business for a hotel(s) in Kilkee or anywhere else. Hotels don't depend on the locals to stay in their property. A well run marketing campaign will fill a hotel no matter how remote. Some of the busiest hotels in the country are in areas with very little local activity such Kelly's of Rosslare, Inchidoney Island Hotel in west Cork, Sandhill Hotel in Rossnowlagh in Donegal. A good hotelier will fill his hotel whatever the season. In Kilkee there is much to do for the winter: birdwatching in Poulnasherry Bay or Ross Bay, cycling on Loophead cycle-way, many official walks either along the cliffs or in bogs (Tullaher), or follow the Heritage Trail for which Loophead won gold for the best presentation of heritage in the world at the recent hosting of the world travel fair in London. There is business out there but it takes a good person to bring it in.

Totally agree.
But unfortunately it would need money, most banks will not take that risk without a heafty guarantor.
So the hotel businesses are normaly only available to the already established chains.
Only a highly viable hotel is of interest to the banks.

blowin3

Red Clover wrote: »

Jim, I can't agree with you that there is not enough business for a hotel(s) in Kilkee or anywhere else. Hotels don't depend on the locals to stay in their property. A well run marketing campaign will fill a hotel no matter how remote. Some of the busiest hotels in the country are in areas with very little local activity such Kelly's of Rosslare, Inchidoney Island Hotel in west Cork, Sandhill Hotel in Rossnowlagh in Donegal. A good hotelier will fill his hotel whatever the season. In Kilkee there is much to do for the winter: birdwatching in Poulnasherry Bay or Ross Bay, cycling on Loophead cycle-way, many official walks either along the cliffs or in bogs (Tullaher), or follow the Heritage Trail for which Loophead won gold for the best presentation of heritage in the world at the recent hosting of the world travel fair in London. There is business out there but it takes a good person to bring it in.

Love your optimism Red Clover. But have you ever noticed the good weather West Clare enjoys. I can't imagine any of the out door pursuits you suggest being enjoyable in these fine winter days. But hey each to their own!

Lobby Con Shine

blowin3 wrote: »

Love your optimism Red Clover. But have you ever noticed the good weather West Clare enjoys. I can't imagine any of the out door pursuits you suggest being enjoyable in these fine winter days. But hey each to their own!

The weather in West Clare is no different to other counties on the West Coast. There are dozens of hotels that operate all year round from Cork to Donegal.

It is true that cycling tours are not feasible but presumably hotels bring in most money from May to September.

As for the winter months, a good hotelier will get creative.

Red Clover

blowin3 wrote: »

Love your optimism Red Clover. But have you ever noticed the good weather West Clare enjoys. I can't imagine any of the out door pursuits you suggest being enjoyable in these fine winter days. But hey each to their own!

See you on the Cliff Walk later on today where we will see dozens and dozens of others enjoying the bracing air and, yes, a lively breeze. At Ross Bay literally hundreds of birders from November to March are out with their binoculars. Loop head is a flyway for migrating birds north and south and while I don't understand the obsession with watching birds flying overhead I respect their enthusiasm.

blowin3

I will pass on your invitation if you don't mind lol. But as I said each to their own!

JCX BXC

Looks like they're re-roofing it again. When's it opening?

Palmach

Carnacalla wrote: »

Looks like they're re-roofing it again. When's it opening?

May weekend is the date. Or so we are told.

Red Clover

Yes, I have heard May week-end as an opening date. Why the secrecy? If they want business the world should know about an opening date. It seems they had hoped to open for St Patrick's week-end and through Easter but bookings were not too good. To get business off season proper packages have to be put together. In the case of the Kilkee Bay Hotel there is a very fine swimming pool and gym beside it on the same grounds. This premises is for sale at a very low price. Anyone serious about off-season business would acquire this premises and use it as a draw over the winter months.The reroofing is taking place at the side of the hotel. Last year the front was re-roofed. I am told that the inside, especially the bedrooms, could do with a good overhaul. There are three other hotels in Kilkee making no effort at opening. In fact the Ocean Cove Hotel had a notice in the local Clare Champion newspaper, recently, requesting planning to convert it into an apartment block. The company which posted the notice does not exist (not on CRO website) and Clare County Council planning section has not received any planning application. Obviously someone flying a kite to test both local opinion and Clare Co Council planning guidelines.

burnsey1987

Apologies for pulling up a near-2-year-old thread but any updates on the Kilkee Bay and/or Ocean Cove? I haven't really been in Kilkee much in the last while and haven't heard anything myself...

Red Clover

Unfortunately there is no good news about either hotel. The Ocean Cove, GFT Investments, attempt to convert this premises to an apartment block is at present with Bord Pleanala. There is huge opposition locally to this planning application. This is a fine building in one of the best locations in the country. Kilkee does not have a decent sized hotel to take a bus load of tourists and many tour operators have expressed surprise that such a central holiday resort on the WAW has two suitable premises, closed. The Kilkee Bay Hotel did not open last year and is now up for sale. The price (over €700K) won't encourage many takers, half that would be enough, because to re-open and make a success will take a lot of money, effort and especially hotelier know-how. It had got such a bad name before it closed that it will be hard to get it's credibility back. That is the problem when non-hotelier speculators get their hands on a premises, the trousering of cash is the only criteria they use. One piece of good news is that the well-known Logue family from Lahinch have bought the old Halpin's Hotel, re-named Kilkee Town House Hotel, and are in the process of renovating it. They expect to be open next month. It has 20 bedrooms so it does not make up for the two that are closed (total: 120 rooms).

Running Balance

Good news about halpins - I remember that place being packed in the 90s..

I guess the number of holiday homes in the town take away from the hotel business..

Are the caravan park as busy as they used to be?

burnsey1987

Red Clover wrote: »

Unfortunately there is no good news about either hotel. The Ocean Cove, GFT Investments, attempt to convert this premises to an apartment block is at present with Bord Pleanala. There is huge opposition locally to this planning application. This is a fine building in one of the best locations in the country. Kilkee does not have a decent sized hotel to take a bus load of tourists and many tour operators have expressed surprise that such a central holiday resort on the WAW has two suitable premises, closed. The Kilkee Bay Hotel did not open last year and is now up for sale. The price (over €700K) won't encourage many takers, half that would be enough, because to re-open and make a success will take a lot of money, effort and especially hotelier know-how. It had got such a bad name before it closed that it will be hard to get it's credibility back. That is the problem when non-hotelier speculators get their hands on a premises, the trousering of cash is the only criteria they use. One piece of good news is that the well-known Logue family from Lahinch have bought the old Halpin's Hotel, re-named Kilkee Town House Hotel, and are in the process of renovating it. They expect to be open next month. It has 20 bedrooms so it does not make up for the two that are closed (total: 120 rooms).

Yes, I remember driving past the Kilkee Bay on a (very) brief visit to the town last year. Very few cars in the car park and didn't look like there was much happening. The place certainly did develop a bad rep in the last couple of years. I went for food there once a while back. Neither the quality of service or the general appearance of the place impressed me much.

I worked in the Ocean Cove back in the summer of 2004 (does not feel like that long ago) and while it was always busy back then, it really was a badly run place. It would be nice if someone did buy it and got serious about making it a success, as the potential is there. Just reading about a fire there? Is that true? How come I never heard anything about that?

That's good news about Halpin's. I just hope that the building hasn't deteriorated too much in all that time it's been closed (about 6/7 years now???)

Red Clover

The hotel business is different to the holiday home business and a properly run and marketed hotel will thrive wherever they are. See Spanish Point with two large hotels open all the year round and with up to 100 permanent staff each.
The old Halpin's Hotel was in reasonably good condition and the new owners are spending quite a bit on renovating it. New beds, carpets, kitchens, entrance re-jigged, in fact a complete make-over. Hopefully it will do well.
While the new hotel is good news it doesn't cancel the bad news of the three largest hotels closed, Ocean Cove, Kilkee Bay and Marine The two last are waiting for the Bord Pleanala decision on the Ocean Cove. If it allows the conversion of the hotel to apartments, which will be sold on, you can expect the other two to jump in with their plans for apartments. The planners will find it difficult to refuse if they have already allowed the Ocean Cove to go down that road.

godfrey

Red Clover wrote: »

The planners will find it difficult to refuse if they have already allowed the Ocean Cove to go down that road.

What's this based on? Is there a policy you're aware of, or are you speculating?

Maybe planners could decide there are then enough apartments, and still not enough hotel rooms.

g

Athdara

Kilkee Bay Hotel - SOLD sign went up last week. Nobody knows for sure who has bought it. Rumours last week were Logue family who have hotels in Spanish Point & Lauinch but they are refurbishing Halpins Hotel so I can't see them buying here aswell. Another rumour has slgrouo with a consortium of hotels has bought it. That suggests Logues to me maybe. Sure who knows. Hopefully it will be reopened and not allowed to fall into disrepair as our town is dying.

Red Clover

Planning authorities are inclined to favour the applicant in a planning application. In the case of the Ocean Cove Hotel it is mentioned in the statutory Town Development Plan that in should be retained as a hotel. It is also mentioned by name in the study brought out by Clare Co Council "Towards a Better Kilkee" in which it recommends the reopening as hotel because of it's location etc. If Bord Pleanála over rides both these documents it is open season for any other hotel establishment to take the easy and more profitable option of converting to apartments and sell them off. Hotels take years and a lot of hard work to regain the investment whereas selling off apartments is quicker and more profitable. There is one piece of good news. The For Sale sign on the Kilkee Bay Hotel has a SOLD sign across it. Word on the street has it that the hoteliers who bought Halpin's Hotel (now called KILKEE TOWN HOUSE HOTEL) are the people involved in the Kilkee Bay Hotel. Things may be looking up.

JCX BXC

Red Clover wrote: »

The For Sale sign on the Kilkee Bay Hotel has a SOLD sign across it. Word on the street has it that the hoteliers who bought Halpin's Hotel (now called KILKEE TOWN HOUSE HOTEL) are the people involved in the Kilkee Bay Hotel. Things may be looking up.

Fairly solid word about that, I just find it bizzare that they'd reopen Halpins and then reopen Kilkee Bay. Perhaps they plan to do something else with Kilkee Bay?

Also, does anyone remember the exact year Halpins closed?

Red Clover

Kilkee Town House Hotel is about to open. An awful lot of renovating has gone on over the last 4 months. Knowing the new owners I expect it to be very successful. As for Halpin's closure it is hard to be sure because due to the then owners concentration on a new Dublin development on the Merrion Road the hotel in Kilkee opened rather erratically. It is approximately 12 years fully closed.
The SOLD sign is still up on Kilkee Bay Hotel. I am still not sure who the new owners are. Hopefully it is real hoteliers rather than the chancer speculators who have invested in hotels around the country and run them into the ground to get their investment back. It does not surprise me if the same group has bought the two hotels. They service two different markets. The Kilkee Bay Hotel with 50 rooms will go for the bus touring market while Kilkee Town House Hotel with 20 rooms will probably go for the independent traveller such as the Failte Ireland's definition, the Culturally Curious. The Kilkee Bay Hotel may not open this year. Apart from renovations it is too late for a major marketing campaign and tour operators have already decided on itineraries and published brochures. There is a huge opening for hotels in Kilkee to take bus tours. If the Ocean Cove opens as a hotel it too would do very well.

JCX BXC

Kilkee Bay hotel reopening in "early 2019". Training programme beginning in September associated with it:

Red Clover

Good news about staff recruitment. It is a good sign when the hotel owners are setting up a training programme early in the year.

Radio5

Is the Ocean Cove still empty?

JCX BXC

Radio5 wrote: »

Is the Ocean Cove still empty?

Yup. At this stage it would need massive infrastructural work before reopening.

Red Clover

Unfortunately it will not open as a hotel again. A developer has got planning permission to turn it into a block of apartments (as though there was not enough of them in Kilkee already). The developer got planning permission from Bord Pleanála despite having it refused by Clare Co Council and against the advice of it's own inspector and despite a very large number of local objectors who claimed it should re-open as a hotel. It was trashed last year and every bathroom/toilet/bedroom was destroyed. The insurance claim will be astronomical!. Bord Pleanála doesn't have much credibility in Kilkee.

Jim Martin

If objectors have the time & the money to do it, they should go to appeal, neighbours of mine did & won but it's quite an ordeal!

Cookiemunster

Jim Martin wrote: »

If objectors have the time & the money to do it, they should go to appeal, neighbours of mine did & won but it's quite an ordeal!

Only a judicial review in the courts can overturn an ABP decision.

Red Clover

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Only a judicial review in the courts can overturn an ABP decision.

Yes, you are right and a judicial review can only be taken on a point of law not on the planning decision. In cases like the Ocean Cove, Bord Pleanála should be obliged to explain in detail how it arrived at the decision. In this case, of the three board members who made the decision, two voted to overturn the Council's decision and the third voted to adhere to the council's decision and refuse planning. The explanation given was yes/no to objections raided even though the Bord Pleanála inspector who visited the site recommended refusing planning. The two who voted against their own inspector had no knowledge of the town or tourism requirements. There is a lot of public anger in Kilkee because of this.

chuckles30

Looks like work has started on the Ocean Cove - I noticed a lot of doors and windows overlooking the beach open there at the weekend and what appeared to be a Site Safety notice up near the building too

Red Clover

Yes, you are right. There is a lot of activity on the site at the moment. I hope they do a nice job and it it will not be just thrown together.

Muscles Schultz

What’s the latest with Kilkee bay hotel?

JCX BXC

Muscles Schultz wrote: »

What’s the latest with Kilkee bay hotel?

Opening in spring.

chuckles30

It has been bought by the people that own the Bellbridge in Spanish Point