€15M berth facility to facilitate cruise liners at Dunlaoghaire Harbour. .

The_Wrecker

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Dun Laoghaire can barely cope with traffic as it, adding 30+ coaches every weekend during the summer would grind the place to a standstill very quickly. Cruise liner patrons will want to see sights or shop, neither of which DL can provide in abundance when compared to the city centre and while it may be quicker access out south of the city, it's more limited in a north or west direction for access.

It would make more sense to operate a special Dart from platform 3 on PH duties. Hopefully arrivals wont clash with the HSS.

Tabnabs

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I often thought a ferry bringing tourists from DL to Howth and back would be a nice feature.

Time to invest in a ferry?

Too late

http://www.dublinbaycruises.com/

Glen Plake

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why not Dublin Port, when you consider what the CC and Dun Laoghaire have to offer, it's a no brainer to spend the money on Dublin Port rather than the ghost port in the ghost town that DL has become.

For those that have a brain and many of them amongst the two million who have visited DL and walked the pier, enjoyed all the facilities the town has to offer, including the Maritime museum/ Shackelton exhibition etc they will realise the suitability of the beautiful port. What a wonderful vista for a traveller to arrive into.

markpb

Glen Plake wrote: »

For those that have a brain and many of them amongst the two million who have visited DL and walked the pier, enjoyed all the facilities the town has to offer, including the Maritime museum/ Shackelton exhibition etc they will realise the suitability of the beautiful port. What a wonderful vista for a traveller to arrive into.

Very few people visit a port on a cruise because it's pretty - they visit it because of what it has to offer.

Fratton Fred

Let's face it, visitors to Dublin aren't coming for golden beaches or to see herds of wildebeest sweeping across the plains.

Easy access to the city centre or the Wicklow mountains is probably the main objective and dun laoghaire certainly meets these.

zagmund

markpb wrote: »

Very few people visit a port on a cruise because it's pretty - they visit it because of what it has to offer.

People don't visit ports in general, they pass through them en-route to somewhere else.

However, if I had a choice between a cruise which docked at DL and one which docked in the Dublin, I know which I would choose, all other things being equal.

There's no doubt about it in my mind - DL offers a nicer vista while arriving & departing to the general passenger.

z

LordSutch

Can I please have something clarified here.

Will the Queen Mary II actually enter Dun Laoghaire port and be berthed inside the harbour? or will she be
(as I suspect) anchored way off shore, with small craft ferrying passengers/crew to and from the harbour?

Curious.

HeidiHeidi

LordSutch wrote: »

Can I please have something clarified here.

Will the Queen Mary II actually enter Dun Laoghaire port and be berthed inside the harbour? or will she be
(as I suspect) be anchored way off shore, with small craft ferrying passengers/crew to and from the harbour?

Curious.

Anchored off, with tenders bringing passengers in. Not sure where they're going to land them, I know there was talk of temporary (possibly to be made permanent for future business) pontoons, but I never bothered finding out where they were going to put them!

TheVoodoo

They will be be landing on the old coal quay beside traders wharf, where the coaches will be ready and waiting to bring them away. There is a new pontoon there, purpose built for all cruisers.

Fratton Fred

Arriving 8am on Thursday apparently.

Tabnabs

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Arriving 8am on Thursday apparently.

6 am according to Dublin Port (who provide the pilotage and control the waters within the bay) http://www.dublinport.ie/information-centre/next-100-arrivals/

She's currently in Greenock, Scotland and can be tracked here:
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?mmsi=310627000&header=true

zagmund

I was down at the coal harbour over the weekend. Please tell me the landing stage they have there is only temporary and is not the result of €15m worth of investment. I had to laugh at two of the signs that were there. One was "Printed an designed" by a well known print shop . . . who apparently don't pay enough attention to proofing their own signs. I can't remember the detail of the other one, but it was on the gate to the boarding area and was something to do with embarkation or permission. I know I'm an old fart and all, but I do think sign writers should check that the signs they are writing are correct.

z

Tabnabs

No that's just a temporary landing stage. The 15m version will effectively cut the harbour in two and allow ships of the size of QM2 to dock in the harbour.

Larbre34

Tabnabs wrote: »

No that's just a temporary landing stage. The 15m version will effectively cut the harbour in two and allow ships of the size of QM2 to dock in the harbour.

I think thats overstating in a bit, page 102 of the doc here shows the overall plan and the scale of the elements including the cruise berth

http://dlharbour.ie/masterplan/masterplan/

Tabnabs

What's that expression, paper never refuses ink?

An interesting little experiment; start up google earth and draw in a ship the full length of the QM2 (not the largest in the world BTW) and you'll see just how economical they are being with that graphic.

In terms of water usage within the harbour, it will very much cut it in two.

Fratton Fred

I presume most will be smaller, but even so, turning something that size in the harbour won't be easy. I guess it will need tugs.

Tabnabs

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I presume most will be smaller, but even so, turning something that size in the harbour won't be easy. I guess it will need tugs.

That's the thing, this is being built to attract the biggest cruise ships. They can't turn in the Liffey, but can go straight in and out and turn outside the harbour in DL. Smaller ships could be accommodated on the current Carlisle Pier (with a bit of reinforcing and proper fendering).

Larbre34

Tabnabs wrote: »

That's the thing, this is being built to attract the biggest cruise ships. They can't turn in the Liffey, but can go straight in and out and turn outside the harbour in DL. Smaller ships could be accommodated on the current Carlisle Pier (with a bit of reinforcing and proper fendering).

Hmm. Itll be bigger than the plan says alright. If you draw an extreme example of a 500m jetty straight out beside the HSS berth, to accommodate a 350m Liner its very long, and itll need to be a good 30m wide to accommodate vehicles. However the West Pier breakwater measures around 350m long itself and thats not particularly obtrusive

The Carlisle Pier has long accommodated passenger ships up to 150m long, no problem there

zagmund

Can someone explain the bit about having to turn *in* the harbour? I know ships are designed to go one direction mostly, but for example the St Columba used to back away from the pier in DL . . . yes, and then turn inside the harbour, but it backed out for sure.

Is the problem to do with hitting open water while going backwards rather than going backwards as such? Is it not feasible for the larger vessels to approach directly, dock, then back out beyond the harbour walls and *then* turn? I'll freely admit I'm not a marine engineer and someone has probably thought of this already, but I'm interested to know why turning in the harbour is a requirement.

z

Tabnabs

zagmund wrote: »

Can someone explain the bit about having to turn *in* the harbour? I know ships are designed to go one direction mostly, but for example the St Columba used to back away from the pier in DL . . . yes, and then turn inside the harbour, but it backed out for sure.

Is the problem to do with hitting open water while going backwards rather than going backwards as such? Is it not feasible for the larger vessels to approach directly, dock, then back out beyond the harbour walls and *then* turn? I'll freely admit I'm not a marine engineer and someone has probably thought of this already, but I'm interested to know why turning in the harbour is a requirement.

z

It won't turn in the harbour if it's sufficiently big and on the new cruise berth. It will back out into the bay where there is miles of room to swing. It's not as simple as turning on the spot, or a three point turn, wind and tide will influence the ease or difficulty in turning. There's also the leisure boat traffic and fishing boats which make life difficult in confined waters. So to get it out into the bay, you give everyone plenty of breathing space.

markpb

I think they prefer to turn in sheltered, more calm waters than in open waters but I'm not sure why. Certainly some cruise ships (like those with azipods) can turn on the spot.

Seaswimmer

Tabnabs wrote: »

That's the thing, this is being built to attract the biggest cruise ships. They can't turn in the Liffey, but can go straight in and out and turn outside the harbour in DL. Smaller ships could be accommodated on the current Carlisle Pier (with a bit of reinforcing and proper fendering).

Large cruise ships do turn in the Liffey at the moment. They come in as normal and then swing with the help of tugs and go stern first into Alexandra basin. I think its always very impressive to see how close the bow goes to Ringsend yacht club when they are swinging around. In fact I think nothing is allowed to be permanently tied up to the pontoon at the yacht club for this reason.

However the largest I think in Dublin has been 295 metres long so you are correct in that anything bigger would have to go to Dun Laoghaire where I assume they would turn outside the harbour and berth stern first with the help of tugs to enable an easier sailing when leaving.

I am not sure how many cruise ships are longer than 295 metres but I am sure there are a few..

Larbre34

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Large cruise ships do turn in the Liffey at the moment. They come in as normal and then swing with the help of tugs and go stern first into Alexandra basin. I think its always very impressive to see how close the bow goes to Ringsend yacht club when they are swinging around. In fact I think nothing is allowed to be permanently tied up to the pontoon at the yacht club for this reason.

However the largest I think in Dublin has been 295 metres long so you are correct in that anything bigger would have to go to Dun Laoghaire where I assume they would turn outside the harbour and berth stern first with the help of tugs to enable an easier sailing when leaving.

I am not sure how many cruise ships are longer than 295 metres but I am sure there are a few..

QM2 is 345, Grand Princess which was recently in Dublin is 290m. Biggest one afloat is Allure of the Seas at 362m which only sails the Caribbean. Next Gen ships will be up to 400m but as someone mentioned the Azipod independent prop/rudder technology makes them incredibly manoeuvrable

markpb

Larbre34 wrote: »

Biggest one afloat is Allure of the Seas at 362m which only sails the Caribbean.

Its sister ship, Oasis of the Seas (which is only centimetres shorter) will be doing a few sailings from Barcelona next year (link) ahead of it's 5 year check in Southampton.

josip

Tabnabs wrote: »

What's that expression, paper never refuses ink?

An interesting little experiment; start up google earth and draw in a ship the full length of the QM2 (not the largest in the world BTW) and you'll see just how economical they are being with that graphic.

In terms of water usage within the harbour, it will very much cut it in two.

Hey Tabnabs, get your own ideas
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84642340&postcount=10

And it could easily reverse up to the old Carlisle pier saving millions.
"Back, back, easy, stop, STOP, STOOOOPPPPP!!!!!"

Fratton Fred

josip wrote: »

Hey Tabnabs, get your own ideas
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84642340&postcount=10

And it could easily reverse up to the old Carlisle pier saving millions.
"Back, back, easy, stop, STOP, STOOOOPPPPP!!!!!"

imagine if they tried doing that on a Saturday pm when they Dublin bay sailing club raves take place, it'll be war!

expectationlost

Cruise berth plan to save Dun Laoghaire port | Irish Examiner

RBB giving out about it

isn't a berth better then all those previous plans to build buildings in the harbour

CatFromHue

Interesting that RBB's problem is with them borrowing the money for it.

ted1

expectationlost wrote: »

Cruise berth plan to save Dun Laoghaire port | Irish Examiner

RBB giving out about it

isn't a berth better then all those previous plans to build buildings in the harbour

In fairness he also gave out that it didn't rain today. What has that gov****e ever supported?

If your not part of the solution , your part of the problem .

Tabnabs

All I can say is that when a cruise ship comes to DL, anchored or otherwise, there are more tourists up the town and spending in the businesses locally. RBB would want to be very careful about what he says as DL is crying out for an opportunity like this.

People Before Profit obviously stands for the comfortable sailing community and pier walkers instead of the local workers, in RBBs mind...