78 year old grandmother wrongly accused of shoplifting

looksee

I have seen lots of people using their bags to collect goods, presumably with the intention of paying, but I think it is very unfair to do that. Its almost challenging shop staff to stop you so you can get indignant.

I do sympathise with people trying to manage a shopping trolly (like the granny's) or a buggy and a basket, it is awkward, but if you put things in a bag, you really cannot get too uptight if a subsequent error is made.

Pawwed Rig

looksee wrote: »

, but if you put things in a bag, you really cannot get too uptight if a subsequent error is made.

Course you can. It is a serious accusation to make against someone so they should be sure of themselves before making it.
If you put stuff in a bag and walk out without paying then let them accuse. If you bring the back upto the counter and empty it in front of the cashier before paying then they have no right to accuse you of anything

Nolimits

I'm surprised how this was handled by the shop, feel terrible for the lady involved. I work in a large Supermarket, if I see someone that I think is shoplifting then I'll go to security and point them out on the cameras. The security guards will not take my word for it (even if I am friends with some of them ) they need to see the person take something off the shelves themselves, and then they follow it all the way through watching the transaction or lack there of. This is the correct way to do it and pretty much eliminates what happened to the lady in the OP

dubstarr

If she had used the basket then the problem wouldnt have arisen in the first place

athtrasna

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Your describing contributory negligence but this is a potential defamation case.

What actually happens in the jury retire - like the looks of the old dear - come back out and award €150,000 because that's the figure they've pulled out of their arses.

For defamation to occur there has to have been independent witnesses ie not the Grandmother, shop assistants or Gardai. The witnesses must have seen/heard the grandmother being accused of theft. If the gardai said they were investigating an alleged theft, no defamation has occurred.

ResearchWill

athtrasna wrote: »

For defamation to occur there has to have been independent witnesses ie not the Grandmother, shop assistants or Gardai. The witnesses must have seen/heard the grandmother being accused of theft. If the gardai said they were investigating an alleged theft, no defamation has occurred.

Informing AGS would be the publication, then the question is does qualified privialage apply to that communication.

Procrastastudy

athtrasna wrote: »

For defamation to occur there has to have been independent witnesses ie not the Grandmother, shop assistants or Gardai. The witnesses must have seen/heard the grandmother being accused of theft. If the gardai said they were investigating an alleged theft, no defamation has occurred.

If one of the shop assistants said something in earshot of anyone but the gardai they'd be wide open. If it was ONLY the gardai they have a possible defence only.

The only thing that stops a flood of defamation cases is the cost and risk. Defamation can happen very, very easily.

daithi1970

..what about Aldi or Lidl? they don't have baskets..i always go to either and put my purchases into a carrier bag and take them to the till for payment..no point in using a trolley for the few thing i get there...

daithi

Furious_George

If she so feels she can take a case for defamation of character (not sure if that is the correct technical term for it). I worked as a security guard for 4 years during college and we were well taught by our bosses that if you falsely accuse someone of stealing, then its going to cost the shop you work for a few grand. We were told no matter how sure we were that they had stolen an item, if you lost sight of the person for a millisecond after they put the item in a bag/under a coat, you let them go because they could put it back or pay for it when you cant see them and if you falsely accuse someone they are getting a payout.

I am 100% certain about this and especially in this case since the gardai are witness they cant deny it. Its up to your grandmother how to proceed but if she wants to follow up on it she should get onto the garda who called out and then consult a solicitor.

The behaviour of the shop assistants was completely wrong, in this country you cant accuse someone of stealing without repercussion, much worse bringing the gardai to their door to falsely accuse them. I'm sorry your grandmother was embarrassed in this manner.

Procrastastudy

Just to throw this out there - I actually feel differently.

No harm was done, people really need to develop a thicker skin. An apology was intimidate and the accusation was done fairly privately. I've heard of defamation cases taken for the bloody beepers going off in shops. There is a current high court case involving the theft of a plastic duck!

If the OP feels they want to take this to court - that's their right and I encourage them to exercise it. What they shouldn't do is mope around because someone was trying to protect their employers property from theft. We all pay for shoplifting in the price we pay for goods.

ZENER

These threads really are complete conjecture unless the OP continues to contribute. Accusations and assumptions leading to further accusations and assumption leading to over-reaction and more assumptions. . . . :rolleyes:

Procrastastudy hit the nail on the head, the lady appears not to have used the store provided baskets and not every OAP is as innocent as we'd like to believe.

Ken

the groutch

while I agree that the shop should have had greater evidence before making the accusation, they were fair in doing it in private to avoid public embarassment.
and customers (of all ages) don't exactly do retailers any favours using bags to carry stuff around before buying it. by removing items from view pre-purchase it makes it harder for security to seperate out the real shoplifters.

P_1

I remember from my days working in retail that when theft was suspected nothing was to be done until

1 - The tills were balanced
2 - The stock system was checked
3 - The CCTV footage was checked

Only then could any action be taken, of course at that stage it was generally too late to do anything useful

borderlinemeath

daithi1970 wrote: »

..what about Aldi or Lidl? they don't have baskets..i always go to either and put my purchases into a carrier bag and take them to the till for payment..no point in using a trolley for the few thing i get there...

daithi

And it's only since Aldi & Lidl started trading here with their pared back costs of no baskets that people have started using their own bags. TBH - they're the ONLY stores I shop in that I would use my own reusable shopping bag as the option to use a basket isn't available. I'm sure that there is a sign up in my local Dunnes asking that patrons use baskets provided rather than their own bags probably for the very reasons this thread is here.

Maybe it's because I worked in retail for so long that I am more aware of store security procedures, how staff and security view potential shoplifters, how brazen some shoplifters can be (and for the poster who uses the bottom of their buggy, that's one place I would always look if I thought somebody was robbing)

Unfortunately OP all grannies may not be as innocent and honest as yours and staff have to view them all as a risk, particularly if they potter around with those wheelie trolleys. Their major mistake was not checking the cameras (if they had them) or with the staff on the register or even to see was a sale logged for the items that they thought were taken.

Branoic

jluv wrote: »

Can I ask how did they know who your granny was and where she lives? Very strange also that the guards took 2 assistants with them to someones house over a few euro. The company also taking a big risk for a few euro..

One of my mates is a guard in a different station, but we checked with him earlier tonight to see if he could find out how exactly that happened. Turned out the two staff members actually followed her home (unknown to her), and then when she got home they called the guards. Mate said the guards would be required to turn up, but when they did and realised what was going on they were pretty embarressed by it and gave out to the staff.

elfy4eva

Branoic wrote: »

One of my mates is a guard in a different station, but we checked with him earlier tonight to see if he could find out how exactly that happened. Turned out the two staff members actually followed her home (unknown to her), and then when she got home they called the guards. Mate said the guards would be required to turn up, but when they did and realised what was going on they were pretty embarressed by it and gave out to the staff.

That is absolutely shocking who in their right mind
would be posessed to follow an old lady
with a wheelybag to her house. There's no way
in hell that's part of their store policy. It's basically stalking
I'd say the gards rightly eat the head offa them for that.

dudara

The staff assistants got admonished by the Gardaí for wasting their time, and rightly so.

I personally wouldn't be looking to take any legal action here. There has been no false imprisonment or defamation (IMO). But the fact that the assistants appear to have followed your grandmother home is a little unnerving. I'd be writing a registered letter to the shop manager and the head office of the shop chain (assuming it's a shop chain).

Furious_George

dudara wrote: »

The staff assistants got admonished by the Gardaí for wasting their time, and rightly so.

I personally wouldn't be looking to take any legal action here. There has been no false imprisonment or defamation (IMO). But the fact that the assistants appear to have followed your grandmother home is a little unnerving. I'd be writing a registered letter to the shop manager and the head office of the shop chain (assuming it's a shop chain).

Im not arguing as to whether a case should be taken because thats a personal decision but a case definitely exists for defamation. The shop assistants came to her house and accused her of stealing. Im guessing the lady has neighbours due to her living walking distance from the shop. She can claim all sorts of distress and shame if she so pleases and fear of leaving the house. Im not one for this claim culture but when someone is so clearly wronged by representatives of a company i would consider a claim.

Oh and if there is a sIgn in the shop saying to use baskets provided all this would mean is that when in the shop staff could politely provide the lady with one and point out store policy. Again this would have to be done politely and would be a rather stupid thing to do anyway as i cant imagine many 78 yr olds who would manage to lug a basket and a rolling carrier around while shopping. Suggestions that the lady was in the wrong are ridiculous but also lack empathy.

Teagwee

I cannot understand how the assistants managed to follow this lady out of the shop to her home after seeing her 'take' the items off the shelf and failed to follow her to the till inside the shop when she paid for them. How did they miss that?
The issue of holding onto the receipt for these items also bugs me - she could have lost it or disposed of it anywhere or at any time between leaving the store and (likely) being at home a while before the guards arrived. Then it would have involved a lot more hassle for both her and the assistants, especially if CC cameras were not available. They clearly could not swear that she didn't pay for the goods, since they obviously lost track of her at the till.
All in all, very sloppy work by the store assistants.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

mccarthy37

What would have happened if she had disposed of the receipt I wonder. A bit heavy handed carry on If you ask me. I would go back to the shop with my receipt and make a very strong complaint.This woman was 78 were the Guards aware of this. I doubt she will ever shop in that premise's again. After such lousy treatment you would think you would have received a proper apology from the manager.

Orbion

TBH I hate people who claim for such things, people make mistakes. I work in security and the amount of times we have to leave people go because of this is a joke. Often it is people with these trolleys or buggies, who even if you catch them will say they forgot. As has already been said, just cause someone is old doesnt make a difference and neither would the value, if your job is security, your job is to stop theft.

They apologized and for most that would be good enough. But as usual you get people who for some reason are so upset and embarressed but somehow x amount of money solves that. The worst part is everyone else has to pay for these peoples ego or greed. So if you really want to punish the shop or get revenge, just dont shop there anymore.

Shelflife

Realistically the shop assistants should have been SURE that a theft had taken place before they went after the lady in question.

Only then should they have followed up with the gardai. That said the practise of putting goods in your own bag will lead to incidents where doubt is sown in the minds of staff.

I wouldnt put much weight to the fact that she was a 78yr old granny, just because she is an elderly granny doesnt mean that she is no capable of robbing a shop on a regular basis and then pulling the Oh im old and confused scam. (op im not suggesting this is the case here).

shoplifting is rife at the moment and all walks of life are at it, the shop is entitled to make reasonable efforts to protect its property and while in one way you have to admire the assistants for their efforts in protecting the property of the shop, you would also say that they made a balls of it by not double checking their facts first.

As regards Compo, well perhaps granny has a case for distress caused, being accused etc but if she was distressed by this she would be up the walls with a court case and all that it entails. would it be worth it ? imo no.

On the other hand I feel that the shop owner/manager should hightail it to the grannys house and apologise profusely and offer gift vouchers or a dinner out or some decent gesture as a show of goodwill.

a decent gesture and a genuine apology would go a long way here and keep both sides happy.

TheDriver

the shop assistants sound wrong in this case and as much as its a mistake and apologies count, I think a letter to the store/area manager needs to be written with the facts of the case because they might not learn from their mistakes and this might happen again.
At the end of the day, the store assistants, followed someone home, called in the law without any realistic proof or check of same and mostly, cost the store a lot more in lost productivity than the 2 euro dishes.
Compo sounds bit too far fetched and oportunistic but I would write to store or area as their actions might never be known to management and they should know this.

pleasant Co.

Lads, lassies, i dunno about your jobs but in my work 2 members of staff cant up and leave to follow someone home...we'd usually be employed to do our actual jobs :P this tale and subsequent follow-ups seems extremely unusual.

jluv

Orbion wrote: »

TBH I hate people who claim for such things, people make mistakes. I work in security and the amount of times we have to leave people go because of this is a joke. Often it is people with these trolleys or buggies, who even if you catch them will say they forgot. As has already been said, just cause someone is old doesnt make a difference and neither would the value, if your job is security, your job is to stop theft.

They apologized and for most that would be good enough. But as usual you get people who for some reason are so upset and embarressed but somehow x amount of money solves that. The worst part is everyone else has to pay for these peoples ego or greed. So if you really want to punish the shop or get revenge, just dont shop there anymore.

If you work in security, then you should know that you need to sure the act of theft has taken place. If there is any doubt that the person has paid,you shoud not make a stop as you put your company at risk. I agree it can be annoying sometimes but trust me if they get away once,they will come back and thats when you get them. Taking a chance for a few euro is not worth the risk,never mind what it could cost in the long run..

jluv

Branoic wrote: »

One of my mates is a guard in a different station, but we checked with him earlier tonight to see if he could find out how exactly that happened. Turned out the two staff members actually followed her home (unknown to her), and then when she got home they called the guards. Mate said the guards would be required to turn up, but when they did and realised what was going on they were pretty embarressed by it and gave out to the staff.

Thanks for clearing that up as I must admit I was puzzled by it. I doubt any company would condone staff members following a person to their home and acting as representatives of the company. I would not like to think of anyone following my Granny home. I suggest a family member(someone who is calm,levelheaded) go speak to management. They may be as appauled as you and I are. Depending on their response would make my mind up as to how the outcome should be.

repsol

If I were you I would bring my Granny to a solicitor and get proper legal advice.I assume she has neighbours or lives on a street used by the public so it would be fair to assume somebody saw the Gardai arriving at her house and questioning her accompanied by the 2 shop staff.In my opinion she has been treated unfairly and assuming she is of previously good character,she has a good case if she decides to take the shop to court.I am afraid a "telling off" from the Gardai is not going to make this one go away.You cannot accuse a person of theft unless you observe them conceal an item and then have an uninterrupted view of them leave the store without making an attempt to pay.Any security guard worth his salt will,if in doubt not stop the person as they know being sued is more expensive than being robbed.They only stop if they are 100% sure.It should be noted that if ever challenged by a security guard upon leaving a store,do not allow them to touch you or go anywhere with them until the Gardai are called and insist only a Garda searches you.Store security guards have been known to plant a small item if they have made a mistake to cover their arse,and then "let you off this time" with this made up theft.Cannot see this going to court.Send a solicitors letter and they will offer a settlement.They don't want the publicity of frightening the **** out of little old ladies.I hope she is not too distressed OP.

Orbion

Once again I have to say - why should there be compensation? Its a big mistake but why should anyone profit out of this. I have to laugh at people who go on about bankers, politicians etc and then encourage this compo culture for incidents that dont deserve it. Can someone tell me how granny getting x amount solves this problem?

repsol

Orbion wrote: »

Once again I have to say - why should there be compensation? Its a big mistake but why should anyone profit out of this. I have to laugh at people who go on about bankers, politicians etc and then encourage this compo culture for incidents that dont deserve it. Can someone tell me how granny getting x amount solves this problem?

It means the next granny will not have to suffer at the hands of the morons working in that shop.The lady obviously lives close to this shop yet she will now feel afraid to go near that or possibly any other shop in the future.At her age it takes very little to frighten a lady.When the owner has to put his hand in his pocket he might invest in a bit of training for his staff.Do you think it is acceptable to accuse people in the wrong on a whim and get away with it? That is the thin end of the wedge and will lead to random searching if it goes unpunished.I don't see what bankers and politicians has to do with this matter.