Sim City

Jonny7

All servers issues and teething problems aside..


The game has online DRM because of piracy.

The potential customers who boycott bc of DRM + potential customers who don't have a 24hr bb connect < the potential customers lost because the game is easily pirated

However unpopular, online DRM makes business sense.

maggy_thatcher

.ak wrote: »

Would people play SC on a train..? Tiny demograph, I'm sure?

Why not? Say every day you're sitting on a train for a couple of hours (return). Playing a game like the original SC series would be perfect for times like this - not a game that requires fine motion control like an FPS, but allows you to play around with a city.

maggy_thatcher

Jonny7 wrote: »

All servers issues and teething problems aside..


The game has online DRM because of piracy.

The potential customers who boycott bc of DRM + potential customers who don't have a 24hr bb connect < the potential customers lost because the game is easily pirated

However unpopular, online DRM makes business sense.

As was put on Reddit before:


Always-Online DRM hurts the paying customer a lot more than it hurts the pirate.

_Puma_

Jonny7 wrote: »

All servers issues and teething problems aside..


The game has online DRM because of piracy.

The potential customers who boycott bc of DRM + potential customers who don't have a 24hr bb connect < the potential customers lost because the game is easily pirated

However unpopular, online DRM makes business sense.

Anything to back this up? You know we are talking about always online DRM right? If anything companies, like Ubisoft, have been moving away from always online DRM because it does not make business sense.

gizmo

_Puma_ wrote: »

"It wasn't all a design decision, however, which Katsarelis admits later on. "We had some performance constraints that factored into the decision."
Source

These performance constraints would have appeared at Alpha/Beta testing I could only assume where the game is tested on lower end systems. The fact that the introduction of an always online aspect that has affected the design decisions in a negative way is the point I'm making

From that article though an engineer also calls out client side problems relating to the about of memory required to manage so many cities in a region. So from the looks of it, it appears that the current size of the maps (which were also present in the alpha and beta builds, linking back to what I said about it not being made at the last minute) was a result of both online and offline issues, caused by both the online simulations and said local memory issues respectively. Now, I don't really doubt that the city size will be extended in time, possibly when the active player count settles down and EA can better gauge the result of larger regions on their end which should also mean that they can be enabled on client machines which can handle it. The kicker will be whether this expansion come at a price to the end user.

humanji

How is cloud gaming doing? I've never tried it before, but has that been effected by people complaining that it's always on?

Jonny7

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Always-Online DRM hurts the paying customer a lot more than it hurts the pirate.

It's not about punishment, its about a games company realising they make more money using online DRM than without.

One inherent issue with this method is the fact that the online system has to work pretty flawlessly - they aren't doing so well in that department

Yes it would be nice to be always able to play single-player games offline - thus without any server issues - but as long as piracy is seriously denting a company's finances they will (in my opinion) increasingly implement this always online DRM in big budget games.

maggy_thatcher

Jonny7 wrote: »

It's not about punishment, its about a games company realising they make more money using online DRM than without.

One inherent issue with this method is the fact that the online system has to work pretty flawlessly - they aren't doing so well in that department

Yes it would be nice to be always able to play single-player games offline - thus without any server issues - but as long as piracy is seriously denting a company's finances they will (in my opinion) increasingly implement this always online DRM in big budget games.

And the reaction to this should be to not purchase any game with Always-Online DRM, so that the studios that release it will hopefully see it hit their wallet hard, and then maybe they'll go back and remove it (like Ubisoft).

And for games that don't have a server side play component (i.e. not Sim City due to architectural decisions), but that online play is purely for DRM purposes - all it takes is one pirate to hack out the DRM bits and then they get a better user experience than those who pay for it.

Jonny7

_Puma_ wrote: »

Anything to back this up? You know we are talking about always online DRM right? If anything companies, like Ubisoft, have been moving away from always online DRM because it does not make business sense.

We have Blizzard who implemented it for Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3.

Personally I much rather do without it, but I understand why it's there. I don't know what the exact opportunity cost is, but only anecdotally, e.g. I know several friends who already pre-ordered (or will be buying) SC5, I can guarantee they wouldn't be paying for it if they had the opportunity.

_Puma_

humanji wrote: »

How is cloud gaming doing? I've never tried it before, but has that been effected by people complaining that it's always on?

Completely different service and it has not taken off yet mainly because the network infrastructure is still not yet up to scratch. Besides you pay a subscition fee, like with Netflix not full price like what you pay for Sim City, no client hardware costs either as your basically playing in a browser/thin client application. Apples and Oranges, and besides if Netflix/OnLive was down for an extended period of time I am sure you would hear about it.

With the article I linked the memory issues could be sorted out in an offline environment by graphics settings. However another big problem is bandwidth.

With always online modes more bandwidth is going to be needed with the increased city sizes so they have had to gimp it to get it to run on the current network infrastructure. That is fine if it was just for the Multiplayer element of the game but why not have a separate single player element?

Which brings me back to my original point, they have shoe horned everything in with always online DRM, and why I think that there is very little chance of an offline element being introduced as it would take too many resources to retrofit the game. If this was the way they intended the game to work then they should call it Sim City MMO, have a MMO business model and design the game entirely for this. Then there would be no reason for people to complain about having to be always online.

However I really doubt this was how it was originally intended and they have simply had to put everything as one big Multiplayer mode for whatever reason. Maybe this happened after EA decide that the game was going to use always online DRM, or time constraints, I dunno, but it would really surprise me if Maxis had originally intended the game to only work like a MMO. If they did then why not be upfront about it and call a spade a spade.

youreadthat

Guys I got my physical copy today, does DRM stop my PC from reading the disc until tomorrow?

Shiminay

I've been trying to play Sim City for the last hour. The servers are dead it seems and I can't connect. This is extremely disappointing and I find myself wondering why this can't have been fixed or why I don't have any meaningful information as to why they're down and when they'll be back up in the same way I do with SWTOR or indeed any other multi-player. Oh, by the way, this *is* a multi-player game, please stop talking about not being able to do single player stuff with it. This was never intended to be a single player game and if you're disappointed about that, then that's understandable. But complaining about this is like complaining that you have to share a cinema with hundreds of people despite the fact that you paid to see a film by yourself.

For what it's worth, I've been playing Sim City 4 a lot in the run up to this game's release and there are an impressive set of community built mods for it that make it a lot of fun. I am equally disappointed that we'll never see that sort of thing for this as the idea of community built content seems abhorrent to EA which is a tragically short sighted way to do business I think.

Falthyron

youreadthat wrote: »

Guys I got my physical copy today, does DRM stop my PC from reading the disc until tomorrow?

Pretty sure you need an Origin account to run the game (even though you have the disc), so once it is registered on Origin you will have to wait until it is unlocked. Probably midnight tonight, or some time tomorrow.

Maybe somebody on here can verify if the game has been unlocked on EU servers?

youreadthat

Falthyron wrote: »

Pretty sure you need an Origin account to run the game (even though you have the disc), so once it is registered on Origin you will have to wait until it is unlocked. Probably midnight tonight, or some time tomorrow.

Maybe somebody on here can verify if the game has been unlocked on EU servers?

Yes thanks I just did that on Origin, redeemed the code. But I'm just making sure there's nothing wrong with my pc? It just makes noises when I put the disk in. I'm guessing come midnight It'll let me install? Or does it still install via download?

Sephiroth_dude

youreadthat wrote: »

Guys I got my physical copy today, does DRM stop my PC from reading the disc until tomorrow?

where did you get it?

youreadthat

Ok scrap what I said, eventually an Origin box opened and said I couldn't install until midnight. Minor panic over lol.

youreadthat

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

where did you get it?

Well I live in the UK and it was my brithday the other day so when my sis asked me for gift ideas I just said pre-order this, and she got it from Game.

Sephiroth_dude

youreadthat wrote: »

Well I live in the UK and it was my brithday the other day so when my sis asked me for gift ideas I just said pre-order this, and she got it from Game.

From the website I persume?

SmithG

Looks superb - I am tempted

youreadthat

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

From the website I persume?

Yeah I believe so, I don't know where's the best place to get it in Ireland.

InTheTrees

I was about to buy it from Amazon.com

But look at the reviews. I Dont think i've ever seen any game get hammered that bad before over something that has really nothing to do with the game itself.

600 negative reviews to 30 good ones? Eugh.


http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Arts-41018ted-Edition2-SimCity/product-reviews/B007VTVRFA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

humanji

InTheTrees wrote: »

I was about to buy it from Amazon.com

But look at the reviews. I Dont think i've ever seen any game get hammered that bad before over something that has really nothing to do with the game itself.

600 negative reviews to 30 good ones? Eugh.


http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Arts-41018ted-Edition2-SimCity/product-reviews/B007VTVRFA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

That's lots of people throwing hissy fits at the drm and the servers being overloaded. The full reviews will come out tomorrow and over the weekend, so you'll get a better idea of how ti runs.

youreadthat

InTheTrees wrote: »

I was about to buy it from Amazon.com

But look at the reviews. I Dont think i've ever seen any game get hammered that bad before over something that has really nothing to do with the game itself.

600 negative reviews to 30 good ones? Eugh.


http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Arts-41018ted-Edition2-SimCity/product-reviews/B007VTVRFA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

A lot is DRM unrest, but there's a lot of discontent about the stupidly small maps, bubble cities ect. There are genuine complaints so I do think it deserves a somewhat mixed review. Personally I'm looking forward to playing it but deep down I know it won't keep me away from SC4 with all it's great mods. I have some great regions I was working on with cities, towns, villages, countryside ect...

maggy_thatcher

InTheTrees wrote: »

I was about to buy it from Amazon.com

But look at the reviews. I Dont think i've ever seen any game get hammered that bad before over something that has really nothing to do with the game itself.

600 negative reviews to 30 good ones? Eugh.


http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Arts-41018ted-Edition2-SimCity/product-reviews/B007VTVRFA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

My favourite favourable review is this one - not really saying too many nice things about it

And I disagree that it's nothing to do with the game itself - if you can't play the game because all you get is a PFO error, then it's kind of fundamental to the game! It also shows that EA are ignoring the target market that used to buy the SC series to target a different group of people. Maybe it's a larger group, maybe it isn't, but it's certainly a different group (yes there are some overlaps between them).

COYVB

I was going to buy this yesterday, but plumped for 4 instead at $13. I'll pick this up for a score in a few months

InTheTrees

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

My favourite favourable review is this one - not really saying too many nice things about it

Yes, I saw that one!

I agree too that of course it IS the game. I'm just disappointed that I'm being denied, I was looking forward to this one.

I remember the original came with a code sheet printed black on dark red so you couldnt photocopy it.

KilOit

Angry reviews are totally justified in my opinion. this is a type of game you should be able to play solo and without a internet connection. Target audience for this type of game would be 30+ i'd imagine and looks like a fun game to play while on the move

humanji

KilOit wrote: »

Angry reviews are totally justified in my opinion. this is a type of game you should be able to play solo and without a internet connection. Target audience for this type of game would be 30+ i'd imagine and looks like a fun game to play while on the move

But they're not reviews. They're at best brief first impressions and at worst hissy fits. They haven't played the game to any lengths. Most are complaining about one issue which they were well informed about ages ago. It's like complaining that Tomb Raider wasn't an FPS. Am I justified in complaining to Square Enix and demanding that they patch in an FPS mode? Or if I wanted a specific type of game, am I better off not buying Tomb Raider and getting that other type of game?

Sim City may well end up being terrible. But there is not a single reason to take any notice of a load random reviews on a shopping website.

VinLieger

Just home from work and saw people going nuts again about not being able to play, managed to get on fine with no problems now thats not to say it wont get worse later but im fed up with people who dont even own the game whining about this that and the other

Reekwind

humanji wrote: »

But they're not reviews. They're at best brief first impressions and at worst hissy fits. They haven't played the game to any lengths...

...because they can't. The system won't let them. Hence their anger