FF the biggest party in Ireland

storker

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Given we had a deficit of 30B a year what were you expecting when you voted for this government? And what would you expect them to have done.

FG has been far from Gombeen. It's been adult. The Gombeens are whine about necessary cuts. The Gombeens would prefer we didn't increase taxes, kept social welfare the same, and also cleared the deficit. By Gombeen magic. I didn't vote for this government but it is precisely because they have acted like adults that I will vote for them next time.

Well it's interesting to note how well the spin works on some people. Far from gombeen? Let's see...

• Increased lottery donations to Mayo?
• Hogans grandiose wining and dining?
• Government jet as busy as it ever was?
• TD perks and pensions untouched?
• Reilly's conveniently-placed care centres?
• Vulnerable attacked while the well-heeled remain largely untouched?
• Quangos, promised to be culled, actually increased?
  Etc

Yep, business as usual for the gombeens, but if believing the spin makes you happy, then go for it. In a way I don't blame you - it's easier than facing up to the reality I suppose.

What did I expect when I elected the government? If you're making the (by now way-overused) point that there would still have had to be cuts, I'm well aware of that, thanks. What I did expect though was political reform, leadership, fairness, transparency and a willingness to put the people of the state above other narrower considerations.

Annasopra

Dónal wrote: »

The positive to take from this is that the most popular party is the one which has 26-7% of the poll. Ignoring undecided voters, this means that FF won't have the full controls of any government.

So the only possible way for them to govern is coalition with FG or SF

storker

yizorselves wrote: »

Just shows you how stupid a lot of people are in this country when it comes to politics. Cant think for themselves, just going with whats familiar. Lazy attitude is what it is. And an arrogant, dismissive attitude towards the likes of SF. Never give them a chance and still take jabs and slag them off, listening to other peoples opinions and spouting it off. Ooooh terrorists! blah blah blah

Gobsh1tes galore I tell thee

I'm surprised that SF rather than FF haven't been the real beneficiaries of FG's blatant contempt for the electorate, but then they do carry the mark of the beast. Getting rid of Adams would help immeasurably in this regard, as well as dumping any with troubles-related baggage, like Dessie Ellis.

storker

zenno wrote: »

I'm praying Norwegian women will invade my bedroom soon.

I liked the first suggestion of a Norwegian invasion. I like yours even better though.

zenno wrote: »

I'm waiting for the zombie people to come out soon, but there again, are there not zombies around us already ?.

I'll say one thing for a zombie apocalypse, at least it would put the gombeens out of business...

donegal_road

The pollsters gathered their information from Brian Lenihan's old constituency in Dublin West. The results do not reflect the political climate of the rest of the country and they are misleading.

Annasopra

demanufactured wrote: »

All the political party's are the same.

That's such an FF mantra

Death and Taxes

donegal_road wrote: »

The pollsters gathered their information from Brian Lenihan's old constituency in Dublin West. The results do not reflect the political climate of the rest of the country and they are misleading.

No they didn't it was national poll!
It has however put a smile on my face as I remember those Official IRA posters with "Gilmore for Taoiseach" on them, the one bit of good news in the rcent polls is the rapid demise of the stickkies.

Best username ever

donegal_road wrote: »

The pollsters gathered their information from Brian Lenihan's old constituency in Dublin West. The results do not reflect the political climate of the rest of the country and they are misleading.

I totally agree with this, I have yet to meet somebody that is going to vote FF ever again. This includes everyone I personally know and my work mates.

If the Irish Times had said SF were top of the polls, I would have believed that. I'm not a shinner myself, but even the most level headed people I know are now supporting them.


I'm an undecided voter at the moment, all parties are lying bastards at the minute.

Ghost Buster

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut... The thing is. Come the next election who do we vote for?
Once upon a distant time i would be Green Party or Labour followed by FG at a push or maybe a good independent.
Greens dont exist any more. labour soon wont and i wouldnt vote for em now even if i could. FG and FF are identical and i wont vote Sf so long as Adams and his era are involved...so...
??????

Best username ever

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut... The thing is. Come the next election who do we vote for?
Once upon a distant time i would be Green Party or Labour followed by FG at a push or maybe a good independent.
Greens dont exist any more. labour soon wont and i wouldnt vote for em now even if i could. FG and FF are identical and i wont vote Sf so long as Adams and his era are involved...so...
??????

So you have no confidence in the current line up like myself?

mikemac1

pmcmahon wrote: »

I'm still praying Norway invade us soon.

Well they've done it before! :mad:

Busted Flat.

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut... The thing is. Come the next election who do we vote for?
Once upon a distant time i would be Green Party or Labour followed by FG at a push or maybe a good independent.
Greens dont exist any more. labour soon wont and i wouldnt vote for em now even if i could. FG and FF are identical and i wont vote Sf so long as Adams and his era are involved...so...
??????

You could try these, and set up an Irish Branch.

http://www.omrlp.com/

donegal_road

WileyCoyote wrote: »

No they didn't it was national poll!
It has however put a smile on my face as I remember those Official IRA posters with "Gilmore for Taoiseach" on them, the one bit of good news in the rcent polls is the rapid demise of the stickkies.

I have a cousin who worked for one of the poll companies.. not going to say who they are on here

Sierra Oscar

donegal_road wrote: »

The pollsters gathered their information from Brian Lenihan's old constituency in Dublin West. The results do not reflect the political climate of the rest of the country and they are misleading.

The fieldwork was done nation wide, which has been clarified by Millward Brown themselves.

Best username ever

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The fieldwork was done nation wide.

I don't believe that.

Kerrigooney

I hate waking up in the morning these days.
I read threads like this,listen to the news,read the paper and wish I'd died in my sleep.

R0ot

Dónal wrote: »

The positive to take from this is that the most popular party is the one which has 26-7% of the poll. Ignoring undecided voters, this means that FF won't have the full controls of any government.

I fail to see how a split/shared government is a good thing. It means you have two parties compromising more election promises than normal to try and appease the other.

We need to get rid of all the current parties and have them reformed. I don't care at this point which is linked to terrorism and which voted no to the treaty for the state. I want honest and educated leaders willing to spend their time in government fixing the country and damn popularity or re-election. Make it 1 term serving in government every 8 years max that way we rule out their decisions being impacted by re-election prospects.

Death and Taxes

donegal_road wrote: »

I have a cousin who worked for one of the poll companies.. not going to say who they are on here

* Smells Bullshít*

mikemac1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

5. New Politics - As the Reilly health centre fiasco trundles on, I'm failing to see how this New politics has been implemented.

What does New Politics even mean?

donegal_road

WileyCoyote wrote: »

* Smells Bullshít*

*like the rest of us do from the poll results*

Sierra Oscar

donegal_road wrote: »

*like the rest of us do from the poll results*

I suppose your cousin works for Ipsos /MRBI too and can confirm that last weeks results were also some sort of setup? Will he also be working for RedC next weekend when they release their results? :rolleyes:

round tower huntsman

never underestimate the stupidity of the irish electorate.

our relationship with ff is like that of a battered wife who's self esteem and self worth is low she returns time and time again to her abusive husband. time and time again ff phuck us over prison style and time and time again we go back for more. its depressing tbh.

Busted Flat.

round tower huntsman wrote: »

never underestimate the stupidity of the irish electorate.

our relationship with ff is like that of a battered wife who's self esteem and self worth is low she returns time and time again to her abusive husband. time and time again ff phuck us over prison style and time and time again we go back for more. its depressing tbh.

What happened in 2011, we got out of the frying pan and into the fire.

DoneDL

Hunter Thompson 1970

"In a democracy, people usually get the kind of government they deserve,

and they deserve what they get."

round tower huntsman

agreed but that was our chance to blow the shackles of the ff/fg gombeen parish pump politics away and try and stand up for ourselves. but we hadnt the balls. we went from ff to fg. and we'll go back again and so on and so on.....
the irish majority havent the self belief to stand up for ourselves and fight back. thats why europe love us, we take it lying down.
like a battered wife that keeps going back, we've no self worth or self esteem as a nation. i put it down to 800 yrs of colonisation and 100 yrs a church domination were we've house trained.

Worztron

George Santayana: "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

dxhound2005

round tower huntsman wrote: »

agreed but that was our chance to blow the shackles of the ff/fg gombeen parish pump politics away and try and stand up for ourselves. but we hadnt the balls. we went from ff to fg. and we'll go back again and so on and so on.....
the irish majority havent the self belief to stand up for ourselves and fight back. thats why europe love us, we take it lying down.
like a battered wife that keeps going back, we've no self worth or self esteem as a nation. i put it down to 800 yrs of colonisation and 100 yrs a church domination were we've house trained.

We used to have one party government under Fianna Fail which was terrible (unemployment, emigration, social deprivation). But for the last 35 years or so it's been all coalitions. Every combination of FF FG Labour/Worker's Party PD's Greens and Independents has been tried and they all failed miserably (unemployment, emigration, high taxes, high inflation, bogus Celtic Tiger). The only ones that haven't got a go are SF and we can see from their complete failure in government in the North that they are not the answer either (unemployment, savage property taxes, social division). Fianna Fail were punished in recent times because everyone's house halved in value. The current lot are unpopular now because they haven't doubled the value of houses.

So I don't know who you expect to change this system unless you stand for election yourself.

green_beret

i put this down to cowen no longer being around, guy was kryptonite for polls

lightspeed

humbert wrote: »

People believe FF can "get things done". Looking at/listening to Enda makes me die a little inside.

Yes but look what they do when they get things done. They make financial decisions solely based on political gestures with no respect for economics or financial management. That is why this country is such a welfare state.

When they were in power, the unions representing the financial interests of their shareholders pressured fianna fail to increase salaries in the civil service which led to salary increases in other areas.

The politicians did not mind cause they were able to increase their wages also.

If it was not for union extortionate and fianna fail hunger to facilitate them, i doubt the likes of John Delaney would be on over €300,000 a year.

Of course this meant welfare had to be increased also in all areas.

Dont people understand that the boom that we had should never have happened? Do they not realise that it was only possible because of all the wreckless banking.

Voting Fianna fail again is like down pints of vodka to cure a hangover.

Aside from what they did to lead to the crisis how can you trust them?

They oppose the property tax and water charges now even though they brought them in.

So its not the case of saying that they will probably just do the same as the current government. There is no questions because before the left, they actually done the same.

If this poll is accurate, it is utterly astonishing.

Best username ever

lightspeed wrote: »

They oppose the property tax and water charges now even though they brought them in.

If this poll is accurate, it is utterly astonishing.

Correct, that's why I don't believe it. Or FF for that matter. If they were in power they would be all for property tax. They are a bunch of actors just playing the role of opposition for entertainment.

dr.fuzzenstein

My problem with property tax is that I payed the last bunch of thieving cnuts over E20k and now the current bunch of thieving cnuts want a property tax from me.
Also, a lot of households would have lost over 50% of their income when one of the people lost their job.
Did the cost of living go down with in line with the decrease in earning power? Did it fcuk.
What does this government do? Their thinking is that we're all sitting on big bundles of cash, we're only too mean to spend it. So they have to tax it out of us.
DIRT tax is at over 30%, if some old granny has a few quid in her bank account she gets robbed blind by these thieving scumbags.
This will push another 100000 mortgages over the edge, take the average mortgage at 200000, so if you multiply 100000 x 200000 you get the figure of what will be the next bank bailout.
The only thing the government has done aside from that is to take money of the poor, the sick, the blind and the disabled, whilst protecting the cronies and the civil service.
They are a bunch of thieving, lying bastards and once I am King I promise I will have them up against a wall and I will personally shoot them.
Or maybe I'll slowly ram a rusty screwdriver through their skulls.
Everyone, grab a torch and a pitchfork, it's huntin' season!

King of Kings

dvpower wrote: »

Although this is clearly a joke post, it does provide a satirical view of what's behind the rise in FF.

a poor attempt at satire that was picked up as a joke.

back to clown school with me - I'll give your best to brian cowan when i'm there.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

My problem with property tax is that I payed the last bunch of thieving cnuts over E20k and now the current bunch of thieving cnuts want a property tax from me.
Also, a lot of households would have lost over 50% of their income when one of the people lost their job.
Did the cost of living go down with in line with the decrease in earning power? Did it fcuk.
What does this government do? Their thinking is that we're all sitting on big bundles of cash, we're only too mean to spend it. So they have to tax it out of us.
DIRT tax is at over 30%, if some old granny has a few quid in her bank account she gets robbed blind by these thieving scumbags.
This will push another 100000 mortgages over the edge, take the average mortgage at 200000, so if you multiply 100000 x 200000 you get the figure of what will be the next bank bailout.
The only thing the government has done aside from that is to take money of the poor, the sick, the blind and the disabled, whilst protecting the cronies and the civil service.
They are a bunch of thieving, lying bastards and once I am King I promise I will have them up against a wall and I will personally shoot them.
Or maybe I'll slowly ram a rusty screwdriver through their skulls.
Everyone, grab a torch and a pitchfork, it's huntin' season!

You can join our "small/minimal govt" party :cool:

dr.fuzzenstein

bluewolf wrote: »

You can join our "small/minimal govt" party :cool:

I'm in, I can be General Insanity? Last time I got busted down to Private Parts.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

My problem with property tax is that I payed the last bunch of thieving cnuts over E20k and now the current bunch of thieving cnuts want a property tax from me.
Also, a lot of households would have lost over 50% of their income when one of the people lost their job.
Did the cost of living go down with in line with the decrease in earning power? Did it fcuk.
What does this government do? Their thinking is that we're all sitting on big bundles of cash, we're only too mean to spend it. So they have to tax it out of us.
DIRT tax is at over 30%, if some old granny has a few quid in her bank account she gets robbed blind by these thieving scumbags.
This will push another 100000 mortgages over the edge, take the average mortgage at 200000, so if you multiply 100000 x 200000 you get the figure of what will be the next bank bailout.
The only thing the government has done aside from that is to take money of the poor, the sick, the blind and the disabled, whilst protecting the cronies and the civil service.
They are a bunch of thieving, lying bastards and once I am King I promise I will have them up against a wall and I will personally shoot them.
Or maybe I'll slowly ram a rusty screwdriver through their skulls.
Everyone, grab a torch and a pitchfork, it's huntin' season!

It's not the government's (read: representatives of everyone) job to look after your personal finances. They legislate for the greater, national good. Not for your wallet.

I'm sure you've bought into some other party's BS that they'll magic the money up with their magic money trees to fix everything.

dr.fuzzenstein

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

It's not the government's (read: representatives of everyone) job to look after your personal finances. They legislate for the greater, national good. Not for your wallet.

I'm sure you've bought into some other party's BS that they'll magic the money up with their magic money trees to fix everything.

I have bought into what now?
I know it can't be fixed quickly and easily. I know that there's a several billion Euro hole that won't be fixed easily.
But what I object to is having paid an obscene amount of stamp duty and now the next shower wants property tax off me. And I'm certainly not alone in that viewpoint.
Also, a lot of households have lost 50% of their income and are struggling, they get hit too.
They call it a fair tax. Let's have a look at what is a fair tax. It's a tax that affects everyone according to their income, that the ones who earn more, pay more.
The property tax does none of that. It does not take ability to pay into account.
There are many better ways to save billions. People in the civil service are grossly overpaid compared to their European counterparts. There are also way too many of them. The administration that runs this country is vastly bloated. And inefficient.
Social welfare is generous here, compared to the rest of the world.
Income tax needs to be raised a few %, because that is the one way you really make sure that people pay based on their income.
But FG are just as scared as FF of their buddies from the unions and vested interests.

TL;DR:
I do not believe that anyone can "magic money" and make it all good.
I DO believe that this country is run by morons, always was, always will be and apaprt from the short blip that was the Celtic Tiger, will always be high unemployment, high cost and only fair to the rich.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I have bought into what now?
I know it can't be fixed quickly and easily. I know that there's a several billion Euro hole that won't be fixed easily.
But what I object to is having paid an obscene amount of stamp duty and now the next shower wants property tax off me. And I'm certainly not alone in that viewpoint.
Also, a lot of households have lost 50% of their income and are struggling, they get hit too.
They call it a fair tax. Let's have a look at what is a fair tax. It's a tax that affects everyone according to their income, that the ones who earn more, pay more.
The property tax does none of that. It does not take ability to pay into account.
There are many better ways to save billions. People in the civil service are grossly overpaid compared to their European counterparts. There are also way too many of them. The administration that runs this country is vastly bloated. And inefficient.
Social welfare is generous here, compared to the rest of the world.
Income tax needs to be raised a few %, because that is the one way you really make sure that people pay based on their income.
But FG are just as scared as FF of their buddies from the unions and vested interests.

TL;DR:
I do not believe that anyone can "magic money" and make it all good.
I DO believe that this country is run by morons, always was, always will be and apaprt from the short blip that was the Celtic Tiger, will always be high unemployment, high cost and only fair to the rich.

So basically, to sum up your entire post: you want everyone else to pay.
How can you claim that the government are hitting the poor unfairly and then complain about welfare not being cut? At least try to maintain some sort of consistency in your "everything is the government's fault" position.

mitosis

round tower huntsman wrote: »

never underestimate the stupidity of the irish electorate.

our relationship with ff is like that of a battered wife who's self esteem and self worth is low she returns time and time again to her abusive husband. time and time again ff phuck us over prison style and time and time again we go back for more. its depressing tbh.

Traditionally FF have been the biggest party with the most support. The last election returned FG as biggest party only as a protest vote. Those who switched allegiance are reverting because things are no better, maybe worse, than under FF. So, no surprise really, nothing to do with the intellect of the electors, more to do with the conservative nature of the two main parties and the lack of a viable alternative.

squod

mitosis wrote: »

the lack of a viable alternative.

Never going to be a viable alternative unless we get rid of FF/FG. The electorate have leaned nothing. There's a series of steps in any change. Step one in this case is vote for anyone but FF/FG.

golfball37

I'd take FF over the current crop of quislings any day of the week. The current crop were mandated to make changes on foot of FF's wreckage but they just carried on and in many cases even exceeded Cowans's government in their arrogance towards the electorate.

I wish none of the 3 main parties existed in Irelands they have not served us well but at present if its a choice between FF and the current lot, its a no brainer.

I'm seriously considering emigrating in any case, this is not a proper country and I have grave reservations about raising my kids into a society like ours.

dr.fuzzenstein

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So basically, to sum up your entire post: you want everyone else to pay.
How can you claim that the government are hitting the poor unfairly and then complain about welfare not being cut? At least try to maintain some sort of consistency in your "everything is the government's fault" position.

Housing tax is not a fair tax.
It is levied regardless of income or ability to pay. A lot of households have lost 50% or more of their income. So this tax is not fair and pretty much everyone who paid stamp duty is not impressed at this double taxation.
As for social welfare, it is too high in a European context.
The governemnt won't go near it, but they took money off the blind. That is just simple scumbaggery and nothing else.
I am happy to pay and already am paying along with everyone else and disproportionally high just like everyone else in the private sector.
Why does the government not put up income tax? Because it would also hit their buddies in the public service and the mafioso on the Unions would then start leaving horse's heads in politician's beds, so they are scared to touch that particular sacred cow.
I wouldn't mind paying a few % more income tax, it would spread the load more evenly and and fairly, it is simply daft not to consider it.
It is somehow pretending that they're not increasing taxes, which is stuff worthy of Comical Ali.
So, cowardice and an unwillingness and inability to take action seems to be just as much a trademark of FG as it was with FF.

golfball37

golfball37 wrote: »

I wish none of the 3 main parties exitsed in Irelands they have not served us well but at present if its a choice between FF and the current lot, its a no brainer.

You're right - it is a "no brainer." As in, how could you possibly arrive at this conclusion unless you were lacking a brain. People are talking in this thread as if Fine Fail have nothing to do with the current economic situation...

THEY CREATED THE BLOODY MESS.

My god. This thread really would make your blood boil, if only you didn't expect it from the electorate.

gobnaitolunacy

golfball37 wrote: »

I'd take FF over the current crop of quislings any day of the week. The current crop were mandated to make changes on foot of FF's wreckage but they just carried on and in many cases even exceeded Cowans's government in their arrogance towards the electorate.

I wish none of the 3 main parties existed in Irelands they have not served us well but at present if its a choice between FF and the current lot, its a no brainer.

I'm seriously considering emigrating in any case, this is not a proper country and I have grave reservations about raising my kids into a society like ours.

And how would FF (or any other party) in power be any different??
The Greater European Union Reich calls the shots.

If I didn't have an elderly parent I'd have blown this taco stand a long time ago. It's becoming a very unpleasant kip to live in :mad:

golfball37

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You're right - it is a "no brainer." As in, how could you possibly arrive at this conclusion unless you were lacking a brain. People are talking in this thread as if Fine Fail have nothing to do with the current economic situation...

THEY CREATED THE BLOODY MESS.

My god. This thread really would make your blood boil, if only you didn't expect it from the electorate.

Knowing what they did the current government acted the exact same as Cowans government. For me they are worse than the previous government. At least there as no pretence of national interest from the FFailures towards the end. This crowd are far worse as they used a climate of change to feather their own nests.

Of course FF are not an alternative nor should they be but I would rather the devil you know than the one that pees down your back only to tell you its raining. Thats assuming there's only a choice between tweedledum and tweedlee.

Azure_sky

dr.fuzzenstein

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You're right - it is a "no brainer." As in, how could you possibly arrive at this conclusion unless you were lacking a brain. People are talking in this thread as if Fine Fail have nothing to do with the current economic situation...

THEY CREATED THE BLOODY MESS.

My god. This thread really would make your blood boil, if only you didn't expect it from the electorate.

Well, yeah, uh, what thread have you been reading?
Hi, welcome to the thead I started. It exists to point out that FF is now the biggest party in Ireland according to a recent survey.
It then goes on to blast FF due to their many failings before going on to describe how FG is making many of the same mistakes.
---->Specsavers

zenno

Don't ever forget...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiiN--4hSjY

mikemac1

Bizarre video ^^^^^

Hanafin, O'Dea and Martin putting the boot in and ripping their leader within the first minute but they were senior ministers too.

So much for loyalty

zenno

mikemac1 wrote: »

Bizarre video ^^^^^

Hanafin, O'Dea and Martin putting the boot in and ripping their leader within the first minute but they were senior ministers too.

So much for loyalty

They are all a bunch of carnivorous creatures. They will pick at you if they see weaknesses and then they take chunks. Nasty.