Test engine power,car over 14 years.

Nissan doctor

raher1 wrote: »

I just want to know is my car engine still producing it's engine capacity as it was new. No point paying for a 1.4 engine capacity if it's capacity or power/ hp is much less. They did it on top gear with some BMW s and other cars.

You sound like you are misunderstanding the terminology here. The engine capacity is 1.4, it will always be 1.4 no matter if its brand new or 15 years old, and so it will always be taxed as a 1.4, regardless of anything else.

What you sound like you want to know is the power output of the engine. This is not connected to its capacity. The power output may be different now then when new but this is utterly irrelevant to how much tax you pay.

dmc17

Maybe we should take a kettle as an example.
If you buy a 1.5 litre kettle today it might boil the water in 2 mins.
10 years later it may take 3 mins to boil the water but its capacity will still be 1.5 litres. Now, I'm off for a cup of tea

raher1

CJhaughey wrote: »

Capacity is the swept volume inside the cylinders this doesn't change over the life of an engine.

Hp is the power the engine develops at a certain revs some engines produce more than others of the same capacity.
depending on many factors including the state of tune the engine is in.
for example a 1.4 litre car engine in a Corolla might be declared as 95hp from new.
In reality it might make 90hp or less.
The state of tune it is in is designed for long life and economy with performance as a lesser consideration.
A Kawasaki ZZR1400 has a 1.4 litre engine designed for horsepower first and economy last. It should produces around 190hp in stock form.
These engines are both the same capacity but totally different in their design goals.
No insurance company is going to change your premium based on a dyno figure, the risk is calculated from your age and driving history, and the risk of the car being stolen or crashed.
No matter if your car is producing 1/2 the hp of when it was new it won't be any cheaper to insure.

Ok,I just want to know the hp/capacity of the engine today. I know I can't change the insurance or tax but why pay for a car producing less power than on paper.

Technoprisoner

you want to spend about €70 on a dyno run to see if your car is worth keeping or not? what a waste of money

Big Nasty

raher1 wrote: »

Ok,I just want to know the hp/capacity of the engine today. I know I can't change the insurance or tax but why pay for a car producing less power than on paper.

Your capacity is and always will be the same. Your power could be down +/- 5% since it came out of the factory. This does not affect your tax.

/thread.

ION08

raher1 wrote: »

Ok,I just want to know the hp/capacity of the engine today. I know I can't change the insurance or tax but why pay for a car producing less power than on paper.

You still dont seem to have a clue what youre talking about. I suggest you read back over previous posts VERY carefully again!

Also stop saying "capacity/hp" as if they are the same thing. THEY ARE NOT.

Tea 1000

raher1 wrote: »

Ok,I just want to know the hp/capacity of the engine today. I know I can't change the insurance or tax but why pay for a car producing less power than on paper.

Lets try this from a different angle. What car is it?

ION08

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Lets try this from a different angle. What car is it?

Seriously, save yourself the facepalm

I was going to ask the same question.

The answer being the capacity is exactly the same and horsepower being 3hp less of the official figure quoted for that model.

But then the OP would probably respond to with another stupid question showing he understood absolutely nothing of what was said but still wants to test his "capacity" because he saw it on Top Gear!! :rolleyes:

Mr Benevolent

I had my old 1L Corsa dyno'd on a test day, over 13 years it had lost 3 hp. We were all fairly impressed.

colm_mcm

Confab wrote: »

I had my old 1L Corsa dyno'd on a test day, over 13 years it had lost 3 hp. We were all fairly impressed.

Which dyno was that?

Mr Benevolent

colm_mcm wrote: »

Which dyno was that?

Urban Per4mance or something, gone now.

Tea 1000

Confab wrote: »

I had my old 1L Corsa dyno'd on a test day, over 13 years it had lost 3 hp. We were all fairly impressed.

But didn't those 1 litre Corsa's only have 4hp to begin with?

(sorry, couldn't resist!!)

langdang

Tea 1000 wrote: »

But didn't those 1 litre Corsa's only have 4hp to begin with?

(sorry, couldn't resist!!)

As much as a Findus lasagne. Maybe the OP could root through Tesco's bins for extra horsepower.

Yeah, it's old at this stage.

Matt Simis

raher1 wrote: »

I just want to know is my car engine still producing it's engine capacity as it was new. No point paying for a 1.4 engine capacity if it's capacity or power/ hp is much less. They did it on top gear with some BMW s and other cars.

I dont know whats more infuriating here, the fact you dont seem to be comprehending whats being advised, despite multiple attempts, that you are not paying for "power / hp" at all and never have been or the fact your teeny little 1.4litre is already bargain basement tax and insurance.

The effort to argue with insurance companies and Revenue to save pennies (and with no hope of success) is effort completely misspent. Go sell your car and find something even smaller if you want to "save" annual tax.

ION08

Matt Simis wrote: »

Go sell your car and find something even smaller if you want to "save" annual tax.

Yes but if they do that, how will they know that the capacity/hp of that smaller car is the same as it is on paper! HOW!?! :P

rocky

I'm sure OP refers to the capacity to produce power

SouperComputer

raher1 wrote: »

Ok,I just want to know the hp/capacity of the engine today. I know I can't change the insurance or tax but why pay for a car producing less power than on paper.

In principle its an interesting idea, however in reality it's an exercise in futility to be honest because its going to be near impossible to get meaningful data.. Unless you can find out the exact same circumstances of the first dyno test and replicate them for the second. The exact fuel used (goes way beyond octane rating) and correction factor at the minimum. Then you will need to compare the AREA of the curves, not the peak HP and or torque reading.

Provided the fuel trims are in spec and your exhaust/cat(s) are clear a compression and or leakdown test will give a good indication of how much wear and tear the motor has endured. That said, if you want to split hairs air density will play a role in the accuracy of the compression test too.

Bottom line is that you are not "just" paying for the peak HP figure that's on paper for a car, if that was the case you'd just have a piece of paper (or a jpg) and they aren't much use getting to work.

CJhaughey

raher1 wrote: »

Ok,I just want to know the hp/capacity of the engine today. I know I can't change the insurance or tax but why pay for a car producing less power than on paper.

Dyno it!
That will give you your power output.
Won't change a damn thing though apart from relieving you of the dynotest cost.

raher1

Going upgrade and down grade now.

Gumbo

raher1 wrote: »

Going upgrade and down grade now.

If it has more power than the quoted figure, will you pay the extra tax?



Anyway, mute point, after you have paid for the dunno run and paid for all the time it takes you to enquire about this, you will still be paying 1.4 tax this time next month, and the month after that and next year.

It's a 1.4 car, pay the tax and move on, or sell it and buy a smaller car.

Cee-Jay-Cee

raher1 wrote: »

I have a 14 year old car and I was wondering how do you test the car engine to see if it producing the same power as before. It's for tax and insurance issue. No point paying for a 1.4 when's producing 1.2 power.

The engine capacity doesn't change and so tax won't either. Insurance companies don't care if its down on power, they quote you on the model and engine size and its totally irrelevant if the engine is down power or not. They do however care if the engine has been modified making it more powerful.

dahamsta

kceire wrote: »

Anyway, mute point, after

It's "moot". Sorry, one of those ones that bugs the crap out of me, like "rediculous".

</pedantry>

rocky

dahamsta wrote: »

It's "moot". Sorry, one of those ones that bugs the crap out of me, like "rediculous".

</pedantry>

ludacris!

Gumbo

dahamsta wrote: »

It's "moot". Sorry, one of those ones that bugs the crap out of me, like "rediculous".

</pedantry>

That's a rediculous point to pull me up on
Anyway, I'll go on mute now

Esel

raher1 wrote: »

Going upgrade and down grade now.

Say what???

ION08

Esel wrote: »

Say what???

For a while there I thought I was the only one to who that made no sense to!

raher1

might as well close this thread

EazyD

Dyno as mentioned previously is your only option to actually measure the loss as such, and I wouldn't recommend it tbh, factoring in the relative costs, the rate of compression loss in the cylinders varies widely and can be minimal,

Esel

raher1 wrote: »

might as well close this thread

Have you learned anything from the thread?

Voodoomelon

Deserves an honourable mention in the motors troll awards.

raher1

My car failed the nct,wait for it. The dim in one light was off by a half screw of bolt. 28 euros for the recheck. They are having a laugh.

galwaytt

CiniO wrote: »

It's actually interesting question...
If someone modified the engine by decreasing it's cubic capacity, and had engineers report to confirm it, would motortax be lowered?

You can't reduce the cc of an existing engine. You can however, change the engine in the car to a different engine with lower cc. Then you'd have to update taxbook etc.

galwaytt

dahamsta wrote: »

It's "moot". Sorry, one of those ones that bugs the crap out of me, like "rediculous".

</pedantry>

rocky wrote: »

ludacris!

Chimley and hemlet :pac:

Wheres My ForkandKnife

raher1 wrote: »

My car failed the nct,wait for it. The dim in one light was off by a half screw of bolt. 28 euros for the recheck. They are having a laugh.

I don't think its the NCT who are having a laugh here.Did you bring in your dyno results???They might lower the fee:pac:

scamalert

Laugh of a thread this is :cool: 1.4 has no power whats so ever,esp since its 14y old car.On the other note
Some new hybrids and luxo cars have already developed system where engine can shut down 2-4 pistons/injectors when not needed ,but that wont change anything especially with ridiculous tax system where 08 and afterwards costs less to insure then 10y old car with 1.4 engine where 08 might be 2l :cool:

vectra

dgt wrote: »

If you are prepared to travel there's one in Kilworth

Are you sure?
Where in Kilworth is that?

H3llR4iser

Oh my, I don't know what's more ridiculous in this thread - the language or the fact that the vast majority, I am afraid, failed to figure out that the OP is a bit confused about words, not engines.

It's clear he knows the tax is based on engine size, and that he's asking about a dyno to test if his engine is too far gone and it's time to get rid of it.

It's also more than clear that he knows very well the difference between the concepts of capacity and power (he states in the very first post, saying there's no point paying for a 1.4 if it pumps out the same power of a 1.2), but not so much about the words.

ION08

raher1 wrote: »

might as well close this thread

raher1 wrote: »

My car failed the nct,wait for it. The dim in one light was off by a half screw of bolt. 28 euros for the recheck. They are having a laugh.

Why on earth did you have to ressurect this abomination of a thread to tell us your car failed the NCT on lights - which has nothing to do with your original post about "engine power" :rolleyes:

You fail at the internet

And no the NCT are not having a laugh, you failed because your lights were incorrectly aligned, quite possibly blinding other drivers or severely reducing you visibility.

dgt

Vectra I'll try get you a link when I'm at a pc but thats what I was told when asked. There cod be more than one Kilworth?

Also after doing much more snooping I found out that private cars were taxed based on engine output up until the early 60s, this is why the op wants to lower the output for tax purposes. Doesn't work like that anymore!

CiniO

galwaytt wrote: »

You can't reduce the cc of an existing engine. You can however, change the engine in the car to a different engine with lower cc. Then you'd have to update taxbook etc.

Of course you can reduce cc of an existing engine..
Did you ever heard about "head planning".

By cutting the head by some amount, you are physically reducing engine CC, which usually causes and increase of compression ratio and possible power increase.

I'm sure you could go f.e. from 2204ccm to 2196ccm, which should put engine in lower tax class.

dgt

vectra wrote: »

Are you sure?
Where in Kilworth is that?

Avec lá.... :pac:

As for making an engine smaller in size, quite easy to do with liners

raher1

Don't care anymore.