Inverto Black Ultra v Inverto Black Premium

iba

Guys,

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between the Inverto Black Ultra LNB and the Inverto Black Premium LNB please, I cant spot the difference?

Thanks

Iba

Ronnie Raygun

There are some differences in the performance figures given in the specs & presumably in the internal components.

They seem to talk up the Ultra as something pretty special:

All in all, this LNB provides a leap in the overall reception performance compared with standard LNBs.

iba

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

There are some differences in the performance figures given in the specs & presumably in the internal components.

They seem to talk up the Ultra as something pretty special:

Thanks Ronnie

I didnt actually notice anything different in the specs.

Already have the Ultra and got the Premium 4 xmas and only noticed today (when I took it out of the box) that it wasnt an ultra.

Then did some googling and couldnt see the difference.

Regarda

rurs

I have one of each, the main difference for me was physical: the Ultra has a longer neck, with the Premium I couldn't fit both the main holder on my Triax dish, plus a multi-lnb holder.

There are minor differences in the spec, but I don't think there's much in it. Maybe at the extremes of reception, when the signal is very marginal, things like Phase Noise, Conversion Gain and Output VSWR can help, but I'd need an electronics engineer to explain how

STB

rurs wrote: »

I have one of each, the main difference for me was physical: the Ultra has a longer neck, with the Premium I couldn't fit both the main holder on my Triax dish, plus a multi-lnb holder.

There are minor differences in the spec, but I don't think there's much in it. Maybe at the extremes of reception, when the signal is very marginal, things like Phase Noise, Conversion Gain and Output VSWR can help, but I'd need an electronics engineer to explain how

Well I studied Telecommunications (not that it helped) in college many years ago and I don't know the answer. I have read many of the theories, none of which were that convincing.

The Ultras do seem to be the weapon of choice. I have 2 and the difference is noticable and can bring you over the lock threshold/rain fade threshold that standard so called "0.1db" LNBs cant.

iba

rurs wrote: »

I have one of each, the main difference for me was physical: the Ultra has a longer neck, with the Premium I couldn't fit both the main holder on my Triax dish, plus a multi-lnb holder.

There are minor differences in the spec, but I don't think there's much in it. Maybe at the extremes of reception, when the signal is very marginal, things like Phase Noise, Conversion Gain and Output VSWR can help, but I'd need an electronics engineer to explain how

Yes, the neck is not as long as the Ultra and makes for akwardness.

iba

Okay, I have now found what I think is the answer to my own question and thought Id post it here in case others may need:

The difference, as far as I can see (aside from the neck size) is in Phase Noise and Conversion Gain.

Links here:

Premium:

http://www.inverto.tv/products/product.php?section=1&id=69

Ultra:

http://www.inverto.tv/products/product.php?section=1&id=68

As for what Phase Noise and Conversion gain do exactly, dont ask me

Liameter

You can think of phase noise as unwanted background noise which every LNB adds to the signal. The lower the better. This becomes important only when the signal is very weak.

Conversion gain is simply the amplification factor. If you have a long cable, a higher amplification can help push the signal down it. If you have a short cable then the stronger signal might cause problems with a very sensitive receiver.

As for the length of neck, this is very useful if you want to adjust the LNB's focal position to get the best possible signal from the dish. Again, this matters only if the signal is very weak - which normally implies that you'll have a very large dish (1.8m or bigger).

The "noise figure" is complete rubbish unless it's stated as a max. or min. at a specific frequency. Otherwise it's marketing hype, designed to make you think it's better than other LNBs when, in fact, it's about as useful as "gold-plating" (bearing in mind you can't gold-plate the central copper wire in an 'F' plug). You'll notice that this particular "0.2dB typical" LNB has a max. noise figure of 0.7dB - which isn't exceptionally good, especially if it happens to occur at the frequency of the weakest transponder. (The reason that the manufacturer can't specify the frequency is that it varies from one LNB to the next - even in the same production batch. This is why, in places such as southern Spain, the good installers will take a dozen LNBs and try each one in turn to find the one that works best at that location.)

Cross-polarisation isolation is a measure of how much H transponders interfere with the reception of V transponders and vice-versa. This becomes important when one polarisation is significantly stronger than the other polarisation on adjacent channels, as tends to happen in fringe reception areas. Again, in such a location, you'll be using a large dish.

iba

Liameter wrote: »

You can think of phase noise as unwanted background noise which every LNB adds to the signal. The lower the better. This becomes important only when the signal is very weak.

Conversion gain is simply the amplification factor. If you have a long cable, a higher amplification can help push the signal down it. If you have a short cable then the stronger signal might cause problems with a very sensitive receiver.

As for the length of neck, this is very useful if you want to adjust the LNB's focal position to get the best possible signal from the dish. Again, this matters only if the signal is very weak - which normally implies that you'll have a very large dish (1.8m or bigger).

The "noise figure" is complete rubbish unless it's stated as a max. or min. at a specific frequency. Otherwise it's marketing hype, designed to make you think it's better than other LNBs when, in fact, it's about as useful as "gold-plating" (bearing in mind you can't gold-plate the central copper wire in an 'F' plug). You'll notice that this particular "0.2dB typical" LNB has a max. noise figure of 0.7dB - which isn't exceptionally good, especially if it happens to occur at the frequency of the weakest transponder. (The reason that the manufacturer can't specify the frequency is that it varies from one LNB to the next - even in the same production batch. This is why, in places such as southern Spain, the good installers will take a dozen LNBs and try each one in turn to find the one that works best at that location.)

Cross-polarisation isolation is a measure of how much H transponders interfere with the reception of V transponders and vice-versa. This becomes important when one polarisation is significantly stronger than the other polarisation on adjacent channels, as tends to happen in fringe reception areas. Again, in such a location, you'll be using a large dish.

Hi Liameter,

Thank you very much for your very detailed reply. I have learnt a lot from what you have written. It is much appreciated.

Regards