If English clubs sought individual TV deals

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Do you think it would turn out to be a good thing for the RoI football team?

The likes of Man Utd and Liverpool would Man Utd and Liverpool would probably buy up all the world stars so no improvement there! Man City and Chelsea would probably be the same with their vastly wealthy owners (and getting around FFP with B.S sponsorships) but I think everyone else in the league would be part of the herd and have no money to spend on players from the continent so there would be more Irish players in the English top flight like the old days.

What do you think would happen?

BhoscaCapall

Around 15 would go out of business. Would certainly bring a lot of their fans back down to earth.

thebaz

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Do you think it would turn out to be a good thing for the RoI football team?

The likes of Man Utd and Liverpool would Man Utd and Liverpool would probably buy up all the world stars so no improvement there! Man City and Chelsea would probably be the same with their vastly wealthy owners
What do you think would happen?

The EPL is already graded into 3 financial leagues - but still chelsea can lose to qpr, rovers can beat united like last year , individual deal's would lead to further selfishness and inequality , bad move all round - good Irish players still cross the chanell, if they are good eneogh - all in all , bad move, in fact terrible move - i am just about struggling to watch MOTD as it is , not to mention that the title race is over already, and its not even march

smileyj1987

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Do you think it would turn out to be a good thing for the RoI football team?

The likes of Man Utd and Liverpool would Man Utd and Liverpool would probably buy up all the world stars so no improvement there! Man City and Chelsea would probably be the same with their vastly wealthy owners (and getting around FFP with B.S sponsorships) but I think everyone else in the league would be part of the herd and have no money to spend on players from the continent so there would be more Irish players in the English top flight like the old days.

What do you think would happen?

Liverpool and Man Utd would be the only two clubs it would benefit because they are the two biggest supported clubs in the league . If that happened you would have a 2 two league very much like the scottish league was with Celtic and Rangers especially with the incoming FFP rules . I would prefer to see the same system of tv money stay in place for the sake of the league .

CSF

Yeah, realistically it'd be Liverpool who would benefit the most from this if it were to ever happen, which it won't.

BhoscaCapall

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Liverpool and Man Utd would be the only two clubs it would benefit because they are the two biggest supported clubs in the league . If that happened you would have a 2 two league

It's already a 2 team league. Well it's a one team league right now but as soon as City get a proper manager...

smileyj1987

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

It's already a 2 team league. Well it's a one team league right now but as soon as City get a proper manager...

It might be a two club league right now but Chelsea have a very good team but no direction because of all the sackings . I honestly do think if it came down to clubs getting sponorship on their own basis United and Liverpool would dominate the League because of the money .

homerjay2005

a tv deal without United would be worthless, Liverpool not far behind also. the likes of Chelsea and City arent big enough clubs to have their own TV deal, so they are in their best interest to stay as is.

if this ever came to a vote, i would be pretty sure it would be defeated 18-2, even 19-1 with United the only team who would benifit. in saying that, if the Glazers can see yet another gap to make even more money, im sure they would consider it.

wont happen though.

Lovely Bloke

The Glazers recently bought Sky's share in MUTV, so it's fully owned by them now.

I reckon they are readying themselves for just this scenario, it is a HUGE untapped market for money making for United.

Don't for one minute expect the Glazers to give a crap about any other club, or any other club's ability to make money.

They have shown that they are more than capable of making excellent commercial deals for thier product, and the TV deal will be no different.

citytillidie

If it were to happen only Liverpool and Man Utd would benefit and Liverpool have already put out feelers for it, sure you can see that when it comes to ITV picking games. This entire Europa League season every Liverpool game has been 1st choice for ITV4 and United for Champions league has been ITV's 1st choice

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15269831

Cantona's Collars

United & Liverpool are the most televised teams as it stands,Stoke are the least popular.Clubs get extra money for a set number of appearances live on tv-Stoke could miss out on £10 million if they fail to reach that target.

If each club negotiated their own rights,we'd end up with a league consisting of a few mega rich clubs & the small fry going bust.As it stands,the system is flawed but is the fairest way to divide the cash out.

Lovely Bloke

zerks wrote: »

United & Liverpool are the most televised teams as it stands,Stoke are the least popular.Clubs get extra money for a set number of appearances live on tv-Stoke could miss out on £10 million if they fail to reach that target.

If each club negotiated their own rights,we'd end up with a league consisting of a few mega rich clubs & the small fry going bust.As it stands,the system is flawed but is the fairest way to divide the cash out.

no we wouldn't, the other teams would adapt. the ones who adapt the best will be still around.

Survival of the fittest.

Who really cares about the "smaller" teams though, certainly not the majority of people on this forum, I personally couldn't give a fiddlers fart if "small" teams like Stoke, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Bristol Rovers go out of business, I'm only interested in the big teams of the PL/UCL - I get my "small team" fix from the LoI.

Cantona's Collars

TheNinthGate wrote: »

no we wouldn't, the other teams would adapt. the ones who adapt the best will be still around.

Survival of the fittest.

Who really cares about the "smaller" teams though, certainly not the majority of people on this forum, I personally couldn't give a fiddlers fart if "small" teams like Stoke, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Bristol Rovers go out of business, I'm only interested in the big teams of the PL/UCL - I get my "small team" fix from the LoI.

Audiences would soon lose interest in a league of 5 clubs,the charm of the EPL is the fact that the 'small' sides can beat the big boys,just look at Southampton v City.The league would be poorer for the lack of so called minnows.

Perhaps a European Super League would keep you happy but I for one prefer things the way they are,even the little guys have a chance to dream big-just look at the Capital One Cup Final.Who'd have thought Bradford would be playing Swansea.

mike65

Think la Liga in the drizzle.

dan1895

TheNinthGate wrote: »

no we wouldn't, the other teams would adapt. the ones who adapt the best will be still around.

Survival of the fittest.

Who really cares about the "smaller" teams though, certainly not the majority of people on this forum, I personally couldn't give a fiddlers fart if "small" teams like Stoke, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Bristol Rovers go out of business, I'm only interested in the big teams of the PL/UCL - I get my "small team" fix from the LoI.

This is an odd thing for a fan of any team to say. You don't mind small clubs, some who've been part of their communities for over a hundred years, going out of business in order to keep the big boys propped up?
Apologies if I'm taking you up wrong.

Lovely Bloke

Sure, I'd feel sad for them, but meh, adapt or survive. It's not 1895 any more, football has changed, either change with it or die.

Liam O

The TV coverage for the PL is still lacking way behind it's American counterparts. There are games every week that millions would watch that aren't on. Sell the individual club channels these games and I think it would make a good compromise though this might be more down to sky's choices more than anything. The smaller teams who aren't on TV as much would get more games to market and the bigger teams would be able to entice a lot of people to pay the subscription. Win win for everyone I'd say.

KaiserGunner

TheNinthGate wrote: »

no we wouldn't, the other teams would adapt. the ones who adapt the best will be still around.

Survival of the fittest.

Who really cares about the "smaller" teams though, certainly not the majority of people on this forum, I personally couldn't give a fiddlers fart if "small" teams like Stoke, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Bristol Rovers go out of business, I'm only interested in the big teams of the PL/UCL - I get my "small team" fix from the LoI.

Im assuming you're a Man Utd fan? Well believe it or not Man Utd need teams to actually play against in the league, teams like Stoke, Swansea etc. Unless you're advocating that there should be a european super league? If that is the case, you certainly wouldnt have enjoyed your 12 league titles in the last 19 years.

IMO if fans want a competitive league than individual tv deals would be a disaster. If fans want Man Utd and Liverpool to be top 2 every season, than individual tv deals are the way to go.

Lovely Bloke

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Im assuming you're a Man Utd fan?

You assume wrong.

everdead.ie

Clubs would still have to buy well and buying badly and bringing in the wrong player on big wages could lead to massive losses when they try to shift them on.

KaiserGunner

TheNinthGate wrote: »

You assume wrong.

O.K my apologies, but my point still stands. PL/UCL teams still need so called smaller clubs to play against. If they go out of business than who are the bigger clubs going to play?

smileyj1987

KaiserGunner wrote: »

O.K my apologies, but my point still stands. PL/UCL teams still need so called smaller clubs to play against. If they go out of business than who are the bigger clubs going to play?

Their Reserve team :pac:

jester77

They should do a model like the BundesLiga model where all games are shown live, fragmenting the games across different networks only hurts the fans. This excuse that people would not attend the games is nonsense. The reason that attendance goes down is because of the ticket prices and not because the game in on the box. Prices in Germany are reasonable and the league has best average attendance in the world, even though all games are shown live.

5starpool

TheNinthGate wrote: »

You assume wrong.

Ah Heyor.

eagle eye

If this happened all teams would be dealing for their own home games. So Stoke, Swansea, QPR etc. could charge £100 million for the rights to the United/Liverpool/Chelsea/Spurs/City games.

Would Sky buy up all the rights? You can bet your backside they would. It would be great for the ordinary fan because if they didn't then the likes of ITV/BBC would surely buy them up.

I really enjoy watching Swansea, Newcastle, Everton, Wigan, Southampton and Reading games. Personally I couldn't give a hoot who wins the league, thats not why I watch football. Football would be incredibly boring if you were only watching three or four teams playing every season.

bucketybuck

TheNinthGate wrote: »

no we wouldn't, the other teams would adapt. the ones who adapt the best will be still around.

Survival of the fittest.

Who really cares about the "smaller" teams though, certainly not the majority of people on this forum, I personally couldn't give a fiddlers fart if "small" teams like Stoke, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Bristol Rovers go out of business, I'm only interested in the big teams of the PL/UCL - I get my "small team" fix from the LoI.

Its a very misguided view to be honest. Be careful what you wish for, the big clubs arent worth anything without the small clubs to contrast with.

citytillidie

jester77 wrote: »

They should do a model like the BundesLiga model where all games are shown live, fragmenting the games across different networks only hurts the fans. This excuse that people would not attend the games is nonsense. The reason that attendance goes down is because of the ticket prices and not because the game in on the box. Prices in Germany are reasonable and the league has best average attendance in the world, even though all games are shown live.

Its not the premier league games they are worried about people not attending its the lower league games

gnfnrhead

I think clubs should be able to show their own games if they arent being shown by Sky or whoever. Lets say Sky show United's game, ESPN shown Liverpool's etc. Arsenal, Chelsea, City etc can show their game on their own channel. The fans get to watch every game they can and Sky etc dont lose out because they wouldnt have been showing them anyway.

Ideally, each club could show their own games regardless of Sky but that wont happen.

Lovely Bloke

gnfnrhead wrote: »

The fans get to watch every game they can and

Fans can watch every game if they want. TV or not.

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Sky etc dont lose out because they wouldnt have been showing them anyway.

Well, Sky do lose out. Do only fans of the two clubs playing watch the match being shown? Or do some Man United fans watch Liverpool matches (when Man Utd aren't on)?

Viewership would be diluted. Sky would lose a lot of viewership figures, the value of the TV deal would plummet.

Guy:Incognito

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I think clubs should be able to show their own games if they arent being shown by Sky or whoever. Lets say Sky show United's game, ESPN shown Liverpool's etc. Arsenal, Chelsea, City etc can show their game on their own channel. The fans get to watch every game they can and Sky etc dont lose out because they wouldnt have been showing them anyway.

Ideally, each club could show their own games regardless of Sky but that wont happen.

That would be fine if say , Utd V Wigan was only watched by Utd and Wigan fans while everyone else watched something else instead. In reality the figures for the Utd Wigan game would drop away a good bit.

EDIT. Beaten to it.

mike65

If this route were being pursued clubs would do better to run their own match channel on satellite, 10 quid a match or 300 a season for 38 PL games. Wonder how many would go for that?

Of course they'd still end up paying Sky etc for carriage but the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool do this already. Strike deals for international markets and the potential could be huge.

Not that I would approve.

Laois_Man

TheNinthGate wrote: »

Fans can watch every game if they want. TV or not.


Well, Sky do lose out. Do only fans of the two clubs playing watch the match being shown? Or do some Man United fans watch Liverpool matches (when Man Utd aren't on)?

Viewership would be diluted. Sky would lose a lot of viewership figures, the value of the TV deal would plummet.

Not really valid. The games shown live on Sky/ESPN are rarely on at the same time as other PL fixtures are being played (Saturday: 12:45pm & 5:30pm, Sunday: 1:30pm & 4:00pm, Monday: 8:00pm)

upandcumming

TheNinthGate wrote: »

no we wouldn't, the other teams would adapt. the ones who adapt the best will be still around.

Survival of the fittest.

Who really cares about the "smaller" teams though, certainly not the majority of people on this forum, I personally couldn't give a fiddlers fart if "small" teams like Stoke, Swansea, Middlesbrough, Bristol Rovers go out of business, I'm only interested in the big teams of the PL/UCL - I get my "small team" fix from the LoI.

Fuck me, do you even like football?

Fr Tod Umptious

While we are here can someone explain how the Spanish system works at present

Do two seperate broadcasters carry Barca and Real games home and way ?
Are they subscription or free ?
Who carries the other clubs games ?

Fr Tod Umptious

mike65 wrote: »

If this route were being pursued clubs would do better to run their own match channel on satellite, 10 quid a match or 300 a season for 38 PL games. Wonder how many would go for that?

Of course they'd still end up paying Sky etc for carriage but the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool do this already. Strike deals for international markets and the potential could be huge.

Not that I would approve.

That's where this will start, in the near future you will see teams being able to sell individual rights to Asia and the US.

gnfnrhead

TheNinthGate wrote: »

Fans can watch every game if they want. TV or not.


Well, Sky do lose out. Do only fans of the two clubs playing watch the match being shown? Or do some Man United fans watch Liverpool matches (when Man Utd aren't on)?

Viewership would be diluted. Sky would lose a lot of viewership figures, the value of the TV deal would plummet.

The majority of matches are Saturday at 3pm. Sky dont show any of them. Sky only show games (with a few exceptions such as the last day etc) when their is only one or two others on at the same time. Unless they start showing those 3pm kick off's, they will lose very little, if any.

Fromthetrees

I want to say that as Irish EPL fans we are fingered up the ass big time. We get lumped in with the UK deal apart from one 3pm kick off. It's frustrating because Sky pay by far the most for rights as they are the domestic broadcaster while the tv rights for the games get sold off separately to every other region around the world; the Scandinavian, Australian, German rights get sold off for a fraction of what BSkyB pay.

I don't see why every EPL game isn't shown on Irish tv by an Irish broadcaster. Even if it had to be as Gaeilge so there wasn't commentary in English.

Sky charge 50 big ones a month to watch a handful of games in HD because we're put in as part of the home broadcast.

On another note, as mentioned above, the price to attend a top EPL game is outrageous and it's effecting attendances but Sky are also choking out the regular English Joe Blogs fan by making it exorbitantly expensive to sit in your socks and tightie whities on a Sunday with a few tins and catch a game. The price to be a football fan is just too much for so many.

I don't really give a toss, I have Sky Go hooked up to my tv, its just I'd much rather pay Setanta 20 or 30 per month to watch every game I want to in HD, they'd also give an Irish angle to the match even if there wasn't any Irish player playing.

Fr Tod Umptious

gnfnrhead wrote: »

The majority of matches are Saturday at 3pm. Sky dont show any of them. Sky only show games (with a few exceptions such as the last day etc) when their is only one or two others on at the same time. Unless they start showing those 3pm kick off's, they will lose very little, if any.

Sky or anyone else for that matter do not show 3pm games because they ate not allowed to, it not their choice

citytillidie

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Sky or anyone else for that matter do not show 3pm games because they ate not allowed to, it not their choice

Not entirely true.

SFA and the FA signed up for the black out time of 2:45pm to 5:15pm.

FAI and WFA have not hence why you get the 3pm on Setanta, and S4C can show Welsh games at 3 on a Saturday. BBC Northern Ireland do show Northern Ireland games at 3 but its just usually cup finals

Sky could if they wanted to show 3pm games in Ireland and Wales, but choose not too.

Oh and because of this the 2nd el classico will not be shown live here on March 2nd as its a 3pm kick off.

Black out list for Europe only 6 countries do it

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/events/marketing/media-rights-and-services/news/newsid=19817.html