The Origin of Specious Nonsense. Twelve years on. Still going. Answer soon.

Reiver

Do you think aliens...have like....gods? I've always wondered how they fit in with our pantheons.

Every myth is based on a grain of truth right?

J C

Reiver wrote: »

Do you think aliens...have like....gods? I've always wondered how they fit in with our pantheons.

I'm not sure what 'Aliens' are ... I know they exit on Earth and they have amazing technology ... so therefore they technically aren't 'Extra-terrestrial' because they are present on Earth.

Reiver wrote: »

Every myth is based on a grain of truth right?

You are correct. For example the myth that life spontaously arose and 'evolved' from Pondkind to Mankind, via the natural selection of genetic mistakes is based on the truth that Natural Selection is observed to select amongst pre-existing genetic diversity.

Reiver

Well I presume something that isn't originally from Terra, that's an alien right? It's alien insofar as they aren't familiar.

So are they friendly? Or here to wage war? Advanced technology does make me nervous.

J C

Reiver wrote: »

Well I presume something that isn't originally from Terra, that's an alien right? It's alien insofar as they aren't familiar.

Yes ... 'Alien' is a good name for them.

Reiver wrote: »

So are they friendly? Or here to wage war? Advanced technology does make me nervous.

They seem to be operating largely on a 'leave us alone and we will leave you alone' basis.

If they were here to be friendly (or indeed to wage physical war) they would probably be making regular appearances on the 9 o'clock news, by now.:)

Their technology is indeed impressive (and relatively silent) ... it can slow to a crawl, hover, land ... and take off at acceleration, that would result in several thousand g-force.
Their technology is therefore 'alien' as well.

bumper234

oscarBravo

J C wrote: »

Yes ... 'Alien' is a good name for them.

They seem to be operating largely on a 'leave us alone and we will leave you alone' basis.

If they were here to be friendly (or indeed to wage physical war) they would probably be making regular appearances on the 9 o'clock news.:)

Their technology is indeed impressive (and relatively silent) ... it can slow to a crawl, hover, land ... and take off at acceleration, that would result in several thousand g-force.
Their technology is therefore 'alien' as well.

Presumably, they were created six thousand-odd years ago, but for some strange reason didn't get a mention in Genesis.

Was their impressive technology created at the same time, or did the creator make them dramatically more intelligent than those he created in his own image?

Brian Shanahan

Reiver wrote: »

Every myth is based on a grain of truth right?

No. Sometimes myths are based on gross exaggerations of what happened, but even then there was no truth involved.

Reiver

Lads can we stop trolling and being disrespectful here. This is an open forum for open-minded people to express their views. He might be onto something, we're like ostriches sticking our heads in the sand at times. There's stuff you can't explain, I remember seeing strange lights moving out in the field before and was afraid to go outside.



JC, so you've only really experienced their technology in relation to transport? Is it easy to shoot down? Could we defend ourselves? It's only a matter of time before some blunders about and provokes them. They seem harmless now but whos to say?

Brian Shanahan

Reiver wrote: »

Lads can we stop trolling and being disrespectful here. This is an open forum for open-minded people to express their views.

No, this forum is for people who present their case with evidence to back up said case. It is not for the kind of people who are so open to other ideas they'll listen to and follow any old nonsense. And the likes of JC aren't open minded anyway, you'd know that if you ever read any of his posts.

Oh, it really does infuriate me when people say stuff like the above to me, especially like when they are trying to defend deeply irrational and illogical explanations for natural phenomena that already have logical and reasonable explanations that have the advantage of being true.

He might be onto something,

He's not, seriously he's not. And saying stuff like this is only drawing him on.

we're like ostriches sticking our heads in the sand at times.

Looking for evidence for stated positions is not being an ostrich sticking their head in the sand. Allowing anybody to come on and rattle off any old nonsense without disputing it is, though. And the latter is what you are advocating.

There's stuff you can't explain, I remember seeing strange lights moving out in the field before and was afraid to go outside.

I was cycling to a match the other week. I glanced to my left cycling past a derelict old farmhouse and saw what looked like a pillar of yellow light. On the way back home I slowed down at the spot I saw this "pillar of light", and do you know what, it was simply a dead tree which combined with my millisecond glance, the angle of the sun and my distraction by other thoughts got turned into something else the first time, i.e. it was a simple optical illusion. I bet that if you investigate your "strange lights" properly you'll in fact find a perfectly reasonable explanation for those lights, either that or you were suffering from sleep paralysis and hallucinating. Quite a lot of apparations, from medieval witch scares to modern alien abductions can be and should be explained by this perfectly normal and common physioligical phenomenon.

JC, so you've only really experienced their technology in relation to transport? Is it easy to shoot down? Could we defend ourselves? It's only a matter of time before some blunders about and provokes them. They seem harmless now but whos to say?

Why are you asking him questions about something that any person of reasonable intelligence would dismiss as 99.9recurring% imaginary? Seriously, why?

_Redzer_

I for one think that JC is doing a fantastic job at representing the religious community

bumper234

_Redzer_ wrote: »

I for one think that JC is doing a fantastic job at representing the religious community

I agree 1000%

Religion needs more people like him to get out there and post on as many forums as possible. They should stand on every street corner and knock on every door because the more people like him there are preaching religion the sooner organised religion will die out and disappear.

J C

Reiver wrote: »

Lads can we stop trolling and being disrespectful here. This is an open forum for open-minded people to express their views. He might be onto something, we're like ostriches sticking our heads in the sand at times. There's stuff you can't explain, I remember seeing strange lights moving out in the field before and was afraid to go outside.

What can I say?

These things exist ... and millions of people have had encounters of varying quality/closeness with them.

Other people prefer to label as 'insane' anything they haven't personally observed (and especially that which 'conventional' religion/science doesn't fully endorse).

Stuff that we take for granted today was stated to be impossible by the leaders of 'scientific' opinion in the past ... for example, 'heavier than air flying machines' were declared to be impossibilities ... even though birds and bats were heavier than air and flying all around the people making such pronouncements.:)
... and not to be outdone, some religious people even when as far as declaring that if God wanted people to fly, He would have given them wings.

That's just the way it is with some folks.

Reiver wrote: »

JC, so you've only really experienced their technology in relation to transport? Is it easy to shoot down? Could we defend ourselves? It's only a matter of time before some blunders about and provokes them. They seem harmless now but whos to say?

I'd say it's probably impossible to physically challenge them (with current Human technology).
I don't think they will be provoked and our 'blunders' probably won't affect them ... but that is just speculation on my part.
I think that if it was going to happen, it would probably have happened by now, as they have been challenged by fighter aircraft on thousands of sorties.

J C

oscarBravo wrote: »

Presumably, they were created six thousand-odd years ago, but for some strange reason didn't get a mention in Genesis.

Was their impressive technology created at the same time, or did the creator make them dramatically more intelligent than those he created in his own image?

They (or something like them) are mentioned in Genesis allright ... and in rather ominous tones.
They appear to be different in substance and spirit to Human Beings.

J C

bumper234 wrote: »

I agree 1000%

Religion needs more people like him to get out there and post on as many forums as possible. They should stand on every street corner and knock on every door because the more people like him there are preaching religion the sooner organised religion will die out and disappear.

I thank you for your opinion and I will give it consideration ... even though I disagree with your conclusions.

In this regard, it's very easy to ignore 'inconvenient truths' and observations that don't fit with the current Zeitgeist (both religious and/or temporal).

It is brave (perhaps even foolhardy) to question the current settled dogmas (of either religion or science) ... but that's how progress is made in our thinking and our technology.

housetypeb

Are they saved? j c, are they going to heaven?

J C

housetypeb wrote: »

Are they saved? j c, are they going to heaven?

I don't know ... you will need to ask them, if you ever meet them.

The ones I have seen aren't very communicative.:)

J C

bumper234 wrote: »

Cuckoo to you too!!!:);)

J C

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Oh, it really does infuriate me when people say stuff like the above to me, especially like when they are trying to defend deeply irrational and illogical explanations for natural phenomena that already have logical and reasonable explanations that have the advantage of being true.

OK ... so what is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation for a craft that is closely observed manouvering, hovering, landing and taking off at speeds that would result in several thousand g-force for any occupants therein?

What is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation' for closely observed beings that are apparently able to physically manifest at will?

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

I was cycling to a match the other week. I glanced to my left cycling past a derelict old farmhouse and saw what looked like a pillar of yellow light. On the way back home I slowed down at the spot I saw this "pillar of light", and do you know what, it was simply a dead tree which combined with my millisecond glance, the angle of the sun and my distraction by other thoughts got turned into something else the first time, i.e. it was a simple optical illusion.

An optical illusion is clearly the 'logical and reasonable' explanation for what you describe ... but everything we observe isn't an optical illusion ... or as easily discounted.

Gordon

J C wrote: »

OK ... so what is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation for a craft that is closely observed manouvering, hovering, landing and taking off at speeds that would result in several thousand g-force for any occupants therein?

What is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation' for closely observed beings that are apparently able to physically manifest at will?

The circumstances need to be looked into properly to define any semblance of logical answer, but the answer is probably hallucinations or eye floaters.

MrPudding

Gordon wrote: »

The circumstances need to be looked into properly to define any semblance of logical answer, but the answer is probably hallucinations or eye floaters.

My money is on neurochemical imbalance.

MrP

Obliq

Oh wow, I've just spotted that you're talking about aliens JC! This is a vast improvement on the acres of gospel :cool: Carry on, and peace out.

Brian Shanahan

J C wrote: »

OK ... so what is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation for a craft that is closely observed manouvering, hovering, landing and taking off at speeds that would result in several thousand g-force for any occupants therein?

Have you ever looked directly into the sun, or other bright light? The afterimage perfectly replicates for me the phenomenon you describe. And this is one of the myriad of explanations that are far more reasonable and logical than "I see flying saucers, get me out of here!" line the alien abductee community blathers on about.

What is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation' for closely observed beings that are apparently able to physically manifest at will?

Here's three:
1) Eat the same breed of mushrooms as the author of Revelation did, or many of the medieval christian mystics. That will work.
2) Be extremely susceptical to cultural memes (e.g. the almost ubiquitous little grey men in sci-fi films and games) and hallucinate brought on by any number of factors, or even just fall asleep and dream, for example when I worked in Tesco I had regular dreams about working in Tesco, brought on by long hours and unusual sleep patterns.
3) The person reporting said phenomenon is lying to gain attention, power or wealth. This is fantastically common.

I'll quote from Science of Discorld (Pratchett, Stewart & Cohen,p.290 Ebury Press paperback edition 1999) just to show how bad the UFO community is at evidence:

The first thing to say is that without a doubt many of these experiences are false. Ian once did a radio broadcast which included a woman who had undergone a convincing experience of being abducted - except that she knew she hadn't really been, because her family told her she'd been asleep beside the fire the whole time. Jack once met a woman who claimed that the aliens abducted her and took away her baby. So he asked a question that nobody elase thought to ask, the women included: "Were you pregnant?"
"No"
The point is that to the victims, the experience felt real. Even though logic told them it couldn't have happened, they either didn't apply the logic, or they did but still remembered the experience vividly. We deduce that the human mind has vivid memories that do not correspond to real events. Of course we must also observe that just because some alien abductions aren't real, that doesn't imply that all aren't. However, if we can find a sensible mechanism for othewrwise reasonable people believing that they really were carted off in a UFO, then the burden of proof shifts dramatically and evidence of abduction stronger than sincere expressions of belief becomes necessary.

And then they go on to detail both medieval hallucinations and the phenomenon of sleep paralysis, showing two such reasonable, plausible and common explanations. Therefore the shoe is now on the other foot, and as the saying goes "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs".

An optical illusion is clearly the 'logical and reasonable' explanation for what you describe ... but everything we observe isn't an optical illusion ... or as easily discounted.

And as stated in the bolded part of the above quote it is up to you and your fellow UFOlogists to come up with some evidence for your claims.

Genghiz Cohen

J C

Thank you guys for your considered opinions.

I have no particular desire to discuss this topic. Most of it is classified - and it therefore largely can't be discussed on the Boards anyway.

I was just answering what appears to be genuine questions from some posters, in so far as I can.

Now, lets get back to evaluating the belief that the yottabytes of complex functional specified genetic information found in living organisms was the result of an enormous cosmic accident ... combined with the selection of the mostly devastating mistakes that mutagenesis is observed to produce.:)

bumper234

J C wrote: »

Thank you guys for your considered opinions.

I have no particular desire to discuss this topic. Most of it is classified anyway - and therefore shouldn't be discussed on the Boards for legal reasons.

I was just answering what appears to be genuine questions from some posters, in so far as I can.

Now, lets get back to evaluating the belief that the yottabytes of complex functional specified genetic information found in living organisms was the result of an enormous cosmic accident ... combined with the selection of the mostly devastating mistakes that mutagenesis is observed to produce.:)

And on that bombshell JC finally admits what we have all always suspected. Well played JC well played

oscarBravo

J C wrote: »

Most of it is classified anyway...

Ye gods, it gets better.

Now, lets get back to evaluating the belief that the yottabytes of complex functional specified genetic information found in living organisms was the result of an enormous cosmic accident ...

I'm afraid you'll have to evaluate that belief by yourself, because - as has been pointed out to you a yotta times already - it's a creationist invention (along with CFSI, or whatever your makey-uppy term is).

J C

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

and as the saying goes "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs".

You first, Brian ... because you really can't get anything more extraordinary than the Evolutionist claim that 'goo evolved into you via the zoo' using nothing but time and selected mistakes.:)

... and just in case somebody starts quibbling over whether living organisms contain yottabytes of genetic information here is how wikipedia describes the storage capacities required for 1 yottabyte:-
Quote:-
"To store a yottabyte on terabyte-size hard drives would require one million city block size data-centers, as big as the states of Delaware and Rhode Island.

If 64 GB microSDXC cards (the most compact data storage medium available to the public as of early 2013) were used instead, the total volume would be approximately 2500000 cubic meters, or the volume of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

Alternatively, using recently demonstrated DNA as storage media, one yottabyte would require a volume between 0.003 and 1 cubic meter, depending on number of redundant backup copies desired. "

Just shows the power of God to invent compact mobile data storage ... versus our (relatively) puny Human efforts to date!!!:D

Be still and know that God is great ... and loves you.

J C

oscarBravo wrote: »

Ye gods, it gets better.

It really does get much better ... when you get to know Him.:)

Bellatori

J C wrote: »

Be still and know that God is great ... and loves you.

What is charming and cute in a small child is certainly a cause for concern in an adult. Most children come to understand quite quickly that the voices that they associate with their invisible friend is in fact simply their imagination.

The Real Reasons Kid Create Imaginary Friends

J C

Bellatori wrote: »

What is charming and cute in a small child is certainly a cause for concern in an adult. Most children come to understand quite quickly that the voices that they associate with their invisible friend is in fact simply their imagination.

The Real Reasons Kid Create Imaginary Friends

A healthy imagination is no liability ... as everybody who imagines that they are directly descended from Pondslime (via deep time and selected mistakes), can verify ... I'm sure.:)