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Faulty laptop inspected while in warranty and wrongly told it was a software fault.

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  • 18-02-2013 12:28pm
    #1
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭


    I got a dell laptop to look at for a friend of a friend. It had been giving trouble ever since they got it. They said they returned it within the warranty period and were told it was a software fault and so not covered. It is now out of warranty.

    It turns off intermittently and looked like a hardware fault to me. To rule out software I booted it and went into the BIOS settings (i.e. not loading windows). After ~10mins it reset showing me it was likely to be the hardware. I did this a few times, and also loaded a linux live cd on it (again not loading windows), and it packed in.

    Can anything be done about this at this stage? I expect they might have records of their own testing when it was sent back.


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    #2
    kaisersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭kaisersoze


    I've had many similar problems with Dell laptops and solved the most recent one with a bios upgrade. So while its not a hardware issue, I guess its technically a software issue, however, I would have thought it was under warranty.

    Its not always the latest BIOS that resolved the problem, but the recommended one. This can be 1 or 2 releases lower than latest, depending on model. The problem I had similar to that is an E6510.

    I guess, that doesnt really solve your problem. If you are of the mind the problem is the laptop is not fit for purpose, you could take a case to the small claims court.

    Good luck with it.


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    #3
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Cheers, my worry about changing the BIOS would be the risk of it packing in halfway through it and bring rightly screwed.

    In linux it would flicker off for a moment, screen goes black and comes back again and the screen & programs would be running fine again. While in windows 7 it typically would shut down completely or go into hibernation.

    Also only remember now that the buttons on the scroll pad do not work right most of the time. Perhaps it is a loose connection inside and it is shutting down due to shorting.
    So while its not a hardware issue, I guess its technically a software issue
    technically it could be, but it sounds like they were trying to blame the customer for messing with the OS and causing it.


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    #4
    kaisersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭kaisersoze


    If they are not covering the warranty, and its screwed, trying a BIOS update is not more risky than the problem you describe. Its worthless.

    If they say its a software issue, I'd be curious as to what the issue is.

    I've had endless problems with NVidia drivers etc for video, but as a last resort I updated the BIOS and haven't had a problem since.

    The Small Claims Court seems like your best option for now.
    rubadub wrote: »
    Cheers, my worry about changing the BIOS would be the risk of it packing in halfway through it and bring rightly screwed.

    In linux it would flicker off for a moment, screen goes black and comes back again and the screen & programs would be running fine again. While in windows 7 it typically would shut down completely or go into hibernation.

    Also only remember now that the buttons on the scroll pad do not work right most of the time. Perhaps it is a loose connection inside and it is shutting down due to shorting.

    technically it could be, but it sounds like they were trying to blame the customer for messing with the OS and causing it.


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    #5
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    rubadub wrote: »
    In linux it would flicker off for a moment, screen goes black and comes back again and the screen & programs would be running fine again. While in windows 7 it typically would shut down completely or go into hibernation.
    Gut feeling - it's an issue with the lid switch which detects when the lid has been closed. In the case of BIOS or windows, this triggers a shutdown, in the case of Linux it doesn't do anything because it hasn't been told what to do when it receives that signal.

    You can verify this by changing windows' power settings to fiddle with what it does when the lid is closed. Tell it to do nothing and see if windows stays running when the screen flickers.

    If that's the issue, then it's definitely a hardware fault and since you've diagnosed the fault without opening the case, it would be worth fighting it with Dell to show them that the original case misdiagnosed it.

    How old is the laptop?


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    #6
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    kaisersoze wrote: »
    If they are not covering the warranty, and its screwed, trying a BIOS update is not more risky than the problem you describe. Its worthless.
    It is usable with linux though. My plan was to just format it and live with the flickering every so often. But if it is a hardware fault and there was any chance of them fixing it I would prefer that.
    seamus wrote: »
    Linux it doesn't do anything because it hasn't been told what to do when it receives that signal.
    It does get the odd flicker on linux though, screen goes black for a split second, up to 4 times in a row, it is not consistent -linux just keeps running though.

    I will still have a look at power settings, perhaps there is something I can change where windows does not do the full shutdown, like linux.
    seamus wrote: »
    How old is the laptop?
    About 3 years now I think. I will have to check the service tag again.


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    #7
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    How old is it? While it may be outside of dells warranty it might still be inside the reasonable lifetime that the goods are covered by the consumers statutory rights


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    #8
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    rubadub wrote: »
    It does get the odd flicker on linux though, screen goes black for a split second, up to 4 times in a row, it is not consistent -linux just keeps running though.

    I will still have a look at power settings, perhaps there is something I can change where windows does not do the full shutdown, like linux.
    Control Panel > Power Options

    There should be an option there like, "When I close the lid of my computer" and this is currently set to "shut down" or "hibernate".

    Change it to "do nothing" and the system won't shut down. It means that it's still usable, but the screen will flicker now and again (the switch probably turns off the display independently of the OS)

    The thing is that this may be easily fixable. Since you mention an issue with the track pad, it could be something simple like the case or an internal component is not sitting flush and is interfering with the front edge of the case.

    You could open the case and investigate, but the kicker is that as soon as you've done that, you lose all hope of getting a warranty fix from Dell.


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    #9
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    I turned off the hibernation and it did not turn off in about 2 hours use, so looking good so far.

    I have not been near this laptop in months. Now I recall it used to turn off more if I opened certain programs, e.g. if I opened control panel. So I am wondering if it was something to do with a CPU overheating when busy or ram being accessed or something.

    I have tried the troublesome applications that I can remember and do not get the flicker effect.

    The BIOS is the lastest, I remember now I did check this. I am confident enough to reflash an older one now as it looks very stable.

    The touchpad buttons are still not working at all, I did find they worked a few times before. I loaded a linux live Lubuntu on it and the buttons still did not work. So I am wondering if the BIOS might fix it, I did try the latest drivers on dells site, might try and get others. Or I might have a look inside, I don't think the owner could be arsed complaining to dell again.

    If the hibernation method continues to work then the worst case now is having to use a mouse with it.


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    #10
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    With issues like this, mobile phone or laptop, I'd leave it in factory state and replicate the problem then video it. Then leave a copy of video on the device. Saves a lot and back and forward if they can't replicate it. Also put a copy on youtube and link to it. Gentle Persuasion,


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    #11
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    i had a dell a few years ago with the same lid close issue. happened after a windows update about 9 months after i bought it. Finally realised what it was and set it to do nothing.


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    #12
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    If the problem was reported while the system was under warranty and not resolved then the issue would still be covered. I assume that when it's said that the issue was "looked at" by Dell that someone came to collect it and then returned it about a week later, this is Dell's base warranty and is outsourced to the lowest bidder, chances are Dell Technical Support wouldn't agree with the service providers diagnostics of a software fault.

    If it was my laptop I would get onto Dell's Technical Support again, their number is 1890-543 543 (I know I'm sad that I know it off by heart) and say that your system is reporting the same issues as it did the last time it was serviced, if you have a DellServ number it'll make it easier for them to look up the history, if they tell you the system isn't under warranty and won't be covered ask them to email you that information as you believe it should be covered as it wasn't fixed when it was under warranty and you'd like to have someone take a look at it.

    If you really want to mess with them say that "I see on the internet this is a known issue", Social Media terrifies Dell, either that or email 1 of their top ranking folks, that normally frightens them as well, I have a few names if you want to PM me I'll send them onto you


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