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Software Tester Jobs

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    #32
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,735 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    You can get away without a degree if you can prove that you are still sh!t hot. Things like open source projects are great for this. Pointing someone to your github is a good start.


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    #33
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    jme2010 wrote: »
    . But to be fair I am working for free (JobBridge)

    Sigh as an expat who reads a lot of depressing news from home, this is one of the particularly bad ones.


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    #34
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Colonel Panic wrote: »
    A minor detail barely worth mentioning! :D

    Point still stands. There is nothing stopping someone with a good portfolio of personal projects getting in to the job.


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    #35
    jme2010
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭jme2010


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Sigh as an expat who reads a lot of depressing news from home, this is one of the particularly bad ones.

    Sigh for the rest of them, not me.

    The last 3 of 3 JB applicants in QA IBM are now on full-time contracts. I am to be offered mine in next few weeks.

    Sigh for the idiots who fall for JB under the unskilled section. Like car washing attendant and tea maker.

    Two friends of mine in control systems engineering companies are now full-time too. (from JB scheme)

    Alot of people bad mouth the JB scheme, and yes, it is a place for greedy companies to take advantage of the unemployed. But it's their [applicants] fault for not applying to reputable companies with a strong ethos on employee trust and relationships. Companies with good names like Microsoft, Google, Ebay, Paypal Xerox are not going to treat their JB applicants like crap.

    I know I'm speaking about tech jobs, but what do people expect when they go on JB with spar or jurys hotel?

    [TL:DR] Job bridge works for a lot of people, mainly graduates looking for the experience (which is invaluable) and it doesn't matter if they get hired. They got what they needed. Experience and that big company name on the CV.


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    #36
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    jme2010 wrote: »
    Sigh for the rest of them, not me.

    The last 3 of 3 JB applicants in QA IBM are now on full-time contracts. I am to be offered mine in next few weeks.

    Sigh for the idiots who fall for JB under the unskilled section. Like car washing attendant and tea maker.

    Two friends of mine in control systems engineering companies are now full-time too. (from JB scheme)

    Alot of people bad mouth the JB scheme, and yes, it is a place for greedy companies to take advantage of the unemployed. But it's their [applicants] fault for not applying to reputable companies with a strong ethos on employee trust and relationships. Companies with good names like Microsoft, Google, Ebay, Paypal Xerox are not going to treat their JB applicants like crap.

    I know I'm speaking about tech jobs, but what do people expect when they go on JB with spar or jurys hotel?

    [TL:DR] Job bridge works for a lot of people, mainly graduates looking for the experience (which is invaluable) and it doesn't matter if they get hired. They got what they needed. Experience and that big company name on the CV.

    Unpaid labor falls into my definition of "treating applicants like crap", its a disgrace. </rant>


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    #37
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Except they get paid for it so that's ok then,


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    #38
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    srsly78 wrote: »
    Except they get paid for it so that's ok then,

    Thats not my understanding?

    Hang on you are not going to attempt to frame this as they are paid in the form of their dole are you?


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    #39
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    They get an extra 50 quid on top of the dole. When I was that age I would have happily taken an unpaid development job, getting foot in the door is the hard part.

    These new guys really need to get some perspective, in a few years they should be earning serious money - so why complain about voluntary internships?

    This isn't like the UK where people are forced to work in Tesco or lose their benefits.


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    #40
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Also, that sort of graduate role to get experience would have had a ok to decent salary for a new grad associated with it a few years back, but now it's 50 quid on top of the dole. That's just wrong.


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    #41
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Also, that sort of graduate role to get experience would have had a ok to decent salary for a new grad associated with it a few years back, but now it's 50 quid on top of the dole. That's just wrong.

    Its plain exploitation


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    #42
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    srsly78 wrote: »
    They get an extra 50 quid on top of the dole. When I was that age I would have happily taken an unpaid development job, getting foot in the door is the hard part.

    These new guys really need to get some perspective, in a few years they should be earning serious money - so why complain about voluntary internships?

    This isn't like the UK where people are forced to work in Tesco or lose their benefits.

    Its bad for everyone in the industry. I know you have the smarts srsly78 so I'm not going to spell it out why.


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    #43
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    The problem here is quality, if there are getting somebody to teach them, they aren't just getting 50e + the dole. There are some good ones and lots of terrible ones. Also yes, some people may use it as a way to get labour cheaper whereas they would have offered a job before. I eventually got a job but if I hadn't there is no way I'd turn down a good internship. Nothing to stop you looking during it either. The real issue is that it should be offered where no job could have been offered, that is not the case most of the time.


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    #44
    jme2010
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭jme2010


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Its bad for everyone in the industry. I know you have the smarts srsly78 so I'm not going to spell it out why.

    If you have all the answers, what is the alternative?

    In this current economy, companies only want to shell out money for senior level applicants with years of experience. What is a fresh graduate with no real world exposure to do?

    I understand before the downturn a graduate could start on a decent salary and now has to take the dole instead. Get over it. These are not the good old times. these are the sh1tty sh1tty times, and we all have to do what is needed in order to secure a future for ourselves.

    If that means I have to put up with the dole for a just couple of months longer, with the prospect of 30K+ starting salary + bonus and I can work from home whenever the hell I feel like. Then so be it. We're all in this poxy mess together, lets just pull through it. If it doesn't work out, well F**K it.
    ChRoMe wrote: »
    as an expat.

    Maybe I'll just turn my back on the country too.


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    #45
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    jme2010 wrote: »
    If you have all the answers, what is the alternative?

    Well considering the whole reason Ireland is in a such a ****ing mess is the lack of consumer spending to stimulate demand and thus jobs.. paying people for their surplus value seems like a pretty good start to stimulate demand doesn't it?

    I'll let the "turn my back on the country" comment slide, as frankly all that does is illustrate your naivety which I imagine is due to age.


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    #46
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    They should introduce a special internship scheme just for STEM jobs, with strict monitoring and criteria - maybe with a little more pay as well.


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    #47
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    There's no excuse though for large companies who can well afford to pay a graduate a living wage to be using JobBridge in my opinion. The IT sector has not been hit anywhere near as badly as others, so they really shouldn't be behaving like they have. It's exploitative and grossly unfair to new grads.


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    #48
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    srsly78 wrote: »
    They should introduce a special internship scheme just for STEM jobs, with strict monitoring and criteria - maybe with a little more pay as well.

    Or take all the money that would be required to implement strict monitoring and just create jobs, crazy idea I know.


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    #49
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    That is a meaningless platitude that I would expect to hear from a politician. How would these jobs be created? By the government? By the private sector? There are already loads of grants etc available. IT is not the sector with an unemployment problem.


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    #50
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I dont think you can just take money and throw it at the problem like that chrome. While there isnt a problem for people with experience srsly78 there is for grads no? Even for jobbridges they get inundated with applications. There are jobs there, but there is huge demand.


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    #51
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    My Job Bridge advertisement got inundated with applications from Indian guys... not Irish guys.


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    #52
    jme2010
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭jme2010


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    There's no excuse though for large companies who can well afford to pay a graduate a living wage to be using JobBridge in my opinion. The IT sector has not been hit anywhere near as badly as others, so they really shouldn't be behaving like they have. It's exploitative and grossly unfair to new grads.

    I agree somewhat.

    But in a few cases the graduate simply would not meet all the requirements for that job or may not be the best candidate.

    (Lets say they are still suitable)
    Instead of being flat out rejected, they are thrown a lifeline, with a chance to get up to speed. They can comfortably take up a role in the company or get a head start on any other similar interviewees.

    I know it still sounds there's an element of explosiveness about it, maybe there is, but I know a lot of guys with mixes of qualifications/ certs & skills who just need a foot in the door.


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    #53
    jme2010
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭jme2010


    srsly78 wrote: »
    My Job Bridge advertisement got inundated with applications from Indian guys... not Irish guys.

    Could you quote the advert in full here?
    Lets see if it would be of benefit to the applicant.


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    #54
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Can't, it was from last year and isn't shown anymore.

    The wording of the ad is forced anyway, it MUST say "the applicant will gain practical experience with X". Mine said practical experience with software development. The intern was free to work on anything they wanted really, but was encouraged to do android stuff because that was my business at the time.

    I got the impression that most of the applications I got were just to show the dole office that they were looking for work.


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    #55
    donegal11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭donegal11


    jme2010 wrote: »

    If that means I have to put up with the dole for a just couple of months longer, with the prospect of 30K+ starting salary + bonus and I can work from home whenever the hell I feel like.

    Your not working for just a couple of months, an internship is 9 months. Big companies are just looking for ways to cut down there costs and make internal budgets look better. I don't know how a new grad could afford to live in Dublin paying rent and travel to work full time on 200ish euro. Heard the lad from HP on the last word (radio)talk about taking on interns when asked about qualifications he said they had no I.T skills which was a lie. A fair portion of those he took on had masters degree in IT. His training to solve the apparent lack of IT knowledge involved taking the ISTQB cert. :pac: which is normally a three day course hardly intensive training.


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    #56
    jme2010
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭jme2010


    donegal11 wrote: »
    Your not working for just a couple of months, an internship is 9 months.

    False.

    On my first day I was told at the 3 month mark I would be interviewed for a position here.

    The last guy on JB here was made full-time (after 3-4 months) just as I was starting.

    My evaluation is coming up next month (3rd-4th month mark) and a new JB tester is coming on.

    :cool: Proof the JB can work.


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    #57
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    jme2010 wrote: »
    False.

    On my first day I was told at the 3 month mark I would be interviewed for a position here.

    The last guy on JB here was made full-time (after 3-4 months) just as I was starting.

    My evaluation is coming up next month (3rd-4th month mark) and a new JB tester is coming on.

    :cool: Proof the JB can work.

    No no no, you are being exploited maaan. Fight the powah!


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    #58
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    srsly78 wrote: »
    No no no, you are being exploited maaan. Fight the powah!

    Wonder how many staff were let go to make way for the cheap labor.

    Even if it is none is this particular instance, these sorts of practices encourages such casual labor situations.


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    #59
    donegal11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭donegal11


    srsly78 wrote: »
    No no no, you are being exploited maaan. Fight the powah!

    So how long did it take for you offer your intern a paid job?


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    #60
    donegal11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭donegal11


    jme2010 wrote: »
    False.

    On my first day I was told at the 3 month mark I would be interviewed for a position here.

    Yes but the vast majority of jobbridge internships are 9 months and only 20% offer a paid job to there interns at the end. So your story is not a typical internship. Before jobbridge companies use to offer short term contracts to graduates during which companies would see if you were able for the job. Jobbridge seemed to replace these sort of paid graduate roles not add to them. It was commented on the radio by someone working in a MNC that it was taking testers on jobbridge doing the exact same work as him/her (underminding their work) yet after 7 years working for this company they have still not been made permanent. You don't see teachers, nurses or other professions involved in the scheme in fact their actively against it so why should a industry with a relatively large number of jobs want there work devalued?


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    #61
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    donegal11 wrote: »
    So how long did it take for you offer your intern a paid job?

    They were getting paid the whole time, just not by me. There is no promise of a paid job - there is a promise of gaining experience. If the intern showed the ability to make money for the company then maybe they a paid job could be created, but this is not guaranteed.

    I did not profit from this internship at all.


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