Bouncers legal rights - what they can and can't do

Dan_Solo

Kosseegan wrote: »

I take steps to avoid trouble. I don't get attacked in pubs. People who get attacked are never innocent in my experience.

Er, by extension then this theory extends to the real world and there simply is no such thing as innocents and victims?
Your suggestion is that everybody in a nightclub is there looking for trouble. Why not just shut them all down then?

petethebrick

Kosseegan wrote: »

I take steps to avoid trouble. I don't get attacked in pubs. People who get attacked are never innocent in my experience.

I hope for your sake you are trolling. If not then you are obviously a retarded fukin idiot. I really hope you get attacked for no reason on a night out sometime.

celt262

petethebrick wrote: »

I hope for your sake you are trolling. If not then you are obviously a retarded fukin idiot. I really hope you get attacked for no reason on a night out sometime.

Dont rise to him.

Boskowski

I am someone who got thrown out of a nightclub for wanting their jacket back. The jacket was left in the cloakroom and I needed to pay for a ticket.
When leaving the premises I tried to get the jacket back presenting the ticket.
The girl was not able to find my jacket and told me to come back tomorrow.
When I asked her to try harder she waved at the bouncer who forcibly ejected me. 2 minutes later he threw the jacket at me outside and shouted 'don't fkn come back here'. Of course I didn't need being told that. I won't be coming back for sure.

I wasn't drunk and I wasn't being an arsehole either - not even to the girl. When I tried to explain to the bouncer what the issue was he took it as 'talking back' and used force and actually flung me out the door.

The whole thing was totally unnecessary and totally uncalled for and yet I was obviously deemed a troublemaker or something.

I know bouncers have to make quick decisions and err on the side of caution. But jeez there are some arseholes out there.
I'd be interested to hear what people think of such a scenario.

Procrastastudy

Boskowski wrote: »

I am someone who got thrown out of a nightclub for wanting their jacket back. The jacket was left in the cloakroom and I needed to pay for a ticket.
When leaving the premises I tried to get the jacket back presenting the ticket.
The girl was not able to find my jacket and told me to come back tomorrow.
When I asked her to try harder she waved at the bouncer who forcibly ejected me. 2 minutes later he threw the jacket at me outside and shouted 'don't fkn come back here'. Of course I didn't need being told that. I won't be coming back for sure.

I wasn't drunk and I wasn't being an arsehole either - not even to the girl. When I tried to explain to the bouncer what the issue was he took it as 'talking back' and used force and actually flung me out the door.

The whole thing was totally unnecessary and totally uncalled for and yet I was obviously deemed a troublemaker or something.

I know bouncers have to make quick decisions and err on the side of caution. But jeez there are some arseholes out there.
I'd be interested to hear what people think of such a scenario.

I think the bouncer should have been running the cloakroom.

dodderangler

Boskowski wrote: »

I am someone who got thrown out of a nightclub for wanting their jacket back. The jacket was left in the cloakroom and I needed to pay for a ticket.
When leaving the premises I tried to get the jacket back presenting the ticket.
The girl was not able to find my jacket and told me to come back tomorrow.
When I asked her to try harder she waved at the bouncer who forcibly ejected me. 2 minutes later he threw the jacket at me outside and shouted 'don't fkn come back here'. Of course I didn't need being told that. I won't be coming back for sure.

I wasn't drunk and I wasn't being an arsehole either - not even to the girl. When I tried to explain to the bouncer what the issue was he took it as 'talking back' and used force and actually flung me out the door.

The whole thing was totally unnecessary and totally uncalled for and yet I was obviously deemed a troublemaker or something.

I know bouncers have to make quick decisions and err on the side of caution. But jeez there are some arseholes out there.
I'd be interested to hear what people think of such a scenario.

In one of my previous posts I stated about bouncers abusing their authority
And seems a lot of people have gone through the same situation
I've often went to smoking area and seen idiots being refused and start argument over it when clearly they are unfit to enter club but I've also seen sober people being refused and when asked why they were basically ATTACKED by a number of bouncers
Also witnessed smart assed bouncers being knocked clean out for abusing their power and messing with wrong person

Esel

One poster on this thread has made it to my Ignore List.

No prizes for guessing who!

ali123

Ok heres my scenario. Was in Galway with some friends recently. One non smoker went outside to keep another company, when he tried to re-enter the pub the bouncer refused, he then asked if he could collect his jacket. Bouncers response was to pick him up by the neck and throw him across the road. Then when he finally retaliated four bouncers attacked him kneeling on his chest an pinning him to the ground. This seems pretty criminal and excessive.

28064212

ali123 wrote: »

Ok heres my scenario. Was in Galway with some friends recently. One non smoker went outside to keep another company, when he tried to re-enter the pub the bouncer refused, he then asked if he could collect his jacket. Bouncers response was to pick him up by the neck and throw him across the road. Then when he finally retaliated four bouncers attacked him kneeling on his chest an pinning him to the ground. This seems pretty criminal and excessive.

If that's what happened, then yes, it was criminal. If. I can't say I've seen many people be able to restrict themselves to polite behaviour when they want in to a pub after a few drinks.

ali123

Totally agree. But we'd already been in and only wanted to collect our stuff to leave. Is it too much to ask for bouncers to be a little helpful, like could they not just escort you to get your jacket surely that scenario is common enough.

28064212

ali123 wrote: »

Totally agree. But we'd already been in and only wanted to collect our stuff to leave. Is it too much to ask for bouncers to be a little helpful, like could they not just escort you to get your jacket surely that scenario is common enough.

Because 99% of the people that say "Oh I just want to get my jacket" don't have jackets in there.

doolox

30 odd years ago I was at a nightclub and was accosted and hassled by two or three other men looking for cigarettes or physical retribution was threatened.

I was too scared to do anything but sat there staring into my pint.

The three "men" persisted in their approaches and were removed from the premises in a swift and timely manner. I had been pushed and shoved on the shoulder a few time but did not retaliate.

Amid apologies and a free pint for my troubles it was remarked that if I had retaliated I would have ended up out on the street with the three amigos and would be in "real trouble" as there is no way of telling aggressor from victim once the victim retaliates and all are usually cast out for the safety of the other customers.

The bouncers took the trouble of escorting me to my transport, taxi I think, when the night was over and sure enough the three lads were waiting outside to have their revenge......If I had tried to make my own way home without the bouncers assistance and advice that night I would have been toast.....

Another night while going into a nightclub, I was advised in whispers to go next door to a cafe for a quick coffee until the bouncers had got rid of undesireable elements seeking to gain admission, I am not normally the quickest to take a hint but took the hint and scarpered next door for 10 minutes or so. The bouncers then got into an almighty row with the "undesireables" and the police were called.

20 minutes later I got in free to the nightclub for being "cooperating" and "understanding". I am just grateful that quick and tactful thinking by one of the bouncers kept me out of a nasty free-for-all fight. It was very common in my hometown for slow and innocent bystanders to be hit in the crossfire of a fist-fight if they wern't quick enough to dodge fists and missiles being thrown about.

I was fortunate enough to work with many bouncers in their full time jobs and got to know them as colleagues and friends outside their mostly part-time bouncing role. This put me in their good books but also I didn't view them as a sort of authority hate-figure as can happen with some people in such situations.

I have seen other people come off the wrong end of bouncers however and would be of the and opinion that there are good and bad in the group they need to be treated with caution, like any other group of people.

mrjoneill

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

They cannot search you without your consent. They can ask for you consent. If you refuse they may refuse you entry.

They do not have the power to detain you unless you have committed or are suspected on reasonable grounds of committing an offence. Most cases I've seen for unlawful detention are settled and admitted. It's almost impossible to defend where a party has been shown to be innocent.

They may ask you to leave a premises. If you refuse they are entitled to use reasonable force.

99% of the time it is a drunk patron's word against several sober security staff, no guesses what way that is going to come down.

There have been several notable cases of Bouncers being done for assault but it is usually on CCTV from a different premises as the CCTV tends to get overwritten by the time you get a discovery order of it (accidently on purposes)

That's about the gist of it.

common law citizens arrest no longer exists

Bepolite

Criminal Law Act, 1997

Arrest without warrant.

4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.

(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

Mr. Incognito's post is slightly poorly worded but there are grounds for arrest by joe public on of suspicion, although as you can see they are very narrow.

defforirl

I worked on and off for more than 10 years as a Doorman, only ever because I needed more money at the time.....never for the love of the job. I've come to realise that most people have a story where they or someone they know was wronged by a doorman for no reason what so ever. I'm not going to claim that this never happens because it does I have have had arguments with other doormen because of it and once walked off a door, but it is definitely the minority of cases. People are incredibly biased when recounting stories of when they were 'wronged'. Some people are completly unaware of how much of an arse they are when drunk.
I was always one of those doormen who would spend 20 mins trying to reason with a drunk person rather than resort to 1min of agro, 99.9% of the time what you say, how you say it and your body language can defuse a tense situation, however sometimes it was nessasary to resort to some form of physical reaction when the patron became violent. I would regularyly be subjected to verbal abuse, spat at, physical threats, physical abuse and even threatend with 'I'll have you shot' at least once a month. Twice I was set upon by a gang whilst on my own, a guy once tried to stab me and I was attacked with bottles and glasses on several ocasions. Once even attacked by a girl with a stiletto.
I'll not claim I'm the hardest man to ever stand on a door however I can look after myself, I sometimes had minor cuts and some bruises but always managed to walk to my car at the end of a shift. Irregardless I'd still prefer to talk my way out of a situation. Some people are just hell bent on getting into a fight and despite being given umpteen chances to leave quietly or walk away they just wont let it go.