Letting Agent want us to pay oil bill

Merch

Legal Expert wrote: »

No I give him cold hard cash every month and I expect some services for that money. Would you pay for a hotel room and then clean the place yourself every day?

Well, I hope when you say cold hard cash you actually mean your hard earned cash in the form of some bank transfer, otherwise you may be facilitating a person evading their tax liability, while there may be no penalty for you, it means your landlord could very likely be getting away with paying tax if it is cash in hand.

Would I pay for a hotel room and then clean it? well actually I'd keep it tidy and in clean order, I wouldnt get out my cif and rubber gloves, but that really is a different arrangement.

In a fair and legal agreement, Id expect both parties to act fairly and reasonably, Id no more expect a landlord to come around and cut the grass then I would expect them to come around and clean the bath.
If I was renting, I wouldn't want to provide my own lawnmower, if I was asked to keep the garden (depending on its size) Id likely agree as I dislike seeing an unkempt garden as I consider it somewhat lazy and inconsiderate of the occupants towards their neighbors to not give a toss even if their landlord is responsible, but I'd suggest the landlord provide the tools. Id hazard a guess most people would prefer to do that than have their landlords nosing around frequently and legitimately if the tenant requested it/agrees to it.

sailordog13

Who would be liable if there was an accident with the 'provided' mower ?

percy212

sailordog13 wrote: »

Who would be liable if there was an accident with the 'provided' mower ?

Merch

Merch

sailordog13 wrote: »

Who would be liable if there was an accident with the 'provided' mower ?

I suppose that depends on what type of accident it was,
what kind of accident is it?? what was the cause??

Adult homeowners are responsible for themselves, have adult tenants suddenly not become responsible?

StillWaters

I have never had a landlord cut grass in places I rented, and now as a LL I have never had a tenant ask me to do it.
Of course a mower has always been provided, but to me, this is like window cleaning, a task left to the occupiers of the house. One one hand tenants want a continental system with long leases, unfurnushed lets and landlords at a remove. On the other, they want the LL to cut the grass!

dissed doc

Legal Expert wrote: »

No I give him cold hard cash every month and I expect some services for that money. Would you pay for a hotel room and then clean the place yourself every day?

You don't get any services, it's not a hotel: it's a tenancy. You are the tenant and the property is now your home. The landlord is not a groundskeeper and in your home you maintain your own place while it's yoru tenancy - you clean the windows, vacuum the carpet, cut the grass. Big boy's rules. .

Merch

StillWaters wrote: »

I have never had a landlord cut grass in places I rented, and now as a LL I have never had a tenant ask me to do it.
Of course a mower has always been provided, but to me, this is like window cleaning, a task left to the occupiers of the house. One one hand tenants want a continental system with long leases, unfurnushed lets and landlords at a remove. On the other, they want the LL to cut the grass!

I didnt think Irish people were used to or wanted unfurnished lets?
Maybe this is non Irish renters that are used to it?? is it?
What do you mean landlords at a remove? do you mean on hand 24-7 at the end of a phone??

dissed doc wrote: »

You don't get any services, it's not a hotel: it's a tenancy. You are the tenant and the property is now your home. The landlord is not a groundskeeper and in your home you maintain your own place while it's yoru tenancy - you clean the windows, vacuum the carpet, cut the grass. Big boy's rules. .

This is the thing, Ive read through plenty of threads and spoken to people too! and the thing I hear is people (tenants) insist a place is their home (which it is) but when it comes to actually doing some of the stuff that comes with having a home, the ancillary maintenance, like keeping the place clean and tidy (not fixing the gutters), well then its not their home, its some place they are pumping dead money into and its not their place all of a sudden!
As a homeowner, if I see rented places with the gutter falling off, I think the landlord is lazy and doesnt give a stuff about the area, if i see the grass uncut I assume the tenant is lazy and doesn't give stuff about the area.

StillWaters

Merch wrote: »

I didnt think Irish people were used to or wanted unfurnished lets?
Maybe this is non Irish renters that are used to it?? is it?
What do you mean landlords at a remove? do you mean on hand 24-7 at the end of a phone??
.

Increasingly I am finding tenants are less transient than they used to be. Tenants are seeing renting as a long term viable option, and the Market, or certainly a sector of it is responding. My tenants brought their own bed and suite of furniture for example. It is their home. When I say at a remove, I mean a professional relationship. I don't bother them, and trust them to get on with it. Small jobs they fix themselves, they keep the place in good order, and dont contact me when the windows need washing, or the lawn needs mowing. When there are issues, and they are very rare, they are fixed promptly, often by the tenants, paid by me of course.
I would be loathe to go back to the type of arrangement some people here seem to expect, and that may be the norm when credit returns. I'd exit the Market first.

eas

Just for perspective, would your tenants bring lawn mowers or would you have one on site?

percy212

The Amateur LL's are out in force on this thread. Imagine tenants bringing their own furniture to a rental!! Fierce continental altogether! I wish the Irish rental market would mature so that all rentals were run by well staffed management companies who do what is required of them without getting emotional or pejorative about tenants.

The fact that so many are losing the plot here about who should mow a lawn is Father Ted worthy. At the end of the day the LL is responsible for maintenance of the property. If the tenant is not maintaining the lawn, then the landlord must. Whether or not the landlords on this thread agree or not is irrelevant.

OP, you asked for advice. Here it is: don't pay for the oil, it should be a goodwill gesture from your landlord since you are generously offering to help with outside maintenance. Secondly the landlord should provide a lawnmower. If I were you I would take a long hard look at this rental. You are being pushed around and you haven't even moved in yet. Best of luck. I hope it all works out to your satisfaction.

eas

Thanks percy212, that advice hits the mark for me.

we're bringing our own furniture

going off topic here but it is quite difficult to find 3-4 bed houses that either come unfurnished and/or has adequate storage. Houses that do have sheds/garages all seem to be full with the owners belongings and not included with the rental. I can understand this in built up areas but we're looking in Wicklow. The common story is that the owners emigrate for whatever reason and leave the house up for lease, seemingly not giving much thought to what perspective renters may require for storage, even for simple things like bicycles.

Sikpupi

Cutting the grass is one thing...... I find getting rid of the cut grass a problem especially living in town!!!

(..so don't ask me how I do it !! wink wink nod nod!!!)

bidiots

percy212 wrote: »

The Amateur LL's are out in force on this thread. Imagine tenants bringing their own furniture to a rental!! Fierce continental altogether! I wish the Irish rental market would mature so that all rentals were run by well staffed management companies who do what is required of them without getting emotional or pejorative about tenants.

The fact that so many are losing the plot here about who should mow a lawn is Father Ted worthy. At the end of the day the LL is responsible for maintenance of the property. If the tenant is not maintaining the lawn, then the landlord must. Whether or not the landlords on this thread agree or not is irrelevant.

OP, you asked for advice. Here it is: don't pay for the oil, it should be a goodwill gesture from your landlord since you are generously offering to help with outside maintenance. Secondly the landlord should provide a lawnmower. If I were you I would take a long hard look at this rental. You are being pushed around and you haven't even moved in yet. Best of luck. I hope it all works out to your satisfaction.

It took 4 pages but finally a bit of sense....what he said.

jmayo

Sikpupi wrote: »

Cutting the grass is one thing...... I find getting rid of the cut grass a problem especially living in town!!!

(..so don't ask me how I do it !! wink wink nod nod!!!)

A sheep or a goat ???

I know someone who was stopped and a charge demanded when they went to reclying dump centre.
They just went and spread it in the local park.

Can you be charged with littering grass ?

eas

After some consideration we decided to pull out. On top of what's been discussed there was other background noise happening. 6 month contract break clause & possible viewings if the owners decided to sell the house all came up during negotiations. The feeling that this was only a sign of things to come made us reconsider and pull out.

thanks everyone for their opinions and advice.

percy212

Best of luck in your search. Its a nice time of the year to look around

Victor

Merch wrote: »

Id suggest that kind of upkeep and maintenance isnt a landlords responsibility, and if its agreed for by the tenant, you sound a bit unreasonable, me me me wa wa, like you'd be up in arms if they turn up every week to cut the grass, you should get your landlord to take out your bins, make you tea and wipe your hole while you're at it.
Jeezzus.

Merch wrote: »

As the OPs question seems to have been answered, and we aren't going to change each others mind, good luck with your case against your landlord for not mowing the lawn, what kind of lazy, disagreeable person argues with another person over that??? maybe you get him/her to bring you some iced lemon drinks while you then watch them mow your lawn.

No need to be so patronising.

percy212 wrote: »

You sound like a slumlord, and an illiterate.

Behave. Constructive posts only please.

Moderator

percy212

Victor, I was responding to this very rude post from Merch. I don't find it constructive. I have reported it - oh I can't report it. Well this the report in that case.

Merch wrote: »

Id suggest that kind of upkeep and maintenance isnt a landlords responsibility, and if its agreed for by the tenant, you sound a bit unreasonable, me me me wa wa, like you'd be up in arms if they turn up every week to cut the grass, you should get your landlord to take out your bins, make you tea and wipe your hole while you're at it.
Jeezzus.

djimi

eas wrote: »

After some consideration we decided to pull out. On top of what's been discussed there was other background noise happening. 6 month contract break clause & possible viewings if the owners decided to sell the house all came up during negotiations. The feeling that this was only a sign of things to come made us reconsider and pull out.

thanks everyone for their opinions and advice.

I wouldnt let a 6 month break clause put you off; they can come in extremely handy as I found out first hand when it allowed me to get out of a lease on a place that turned out to be a bit of a disaster! If you are new to a property/area then you might be glad of an escape clause. I know it also allows the landlord an out, but chances are that once you are a good tenant and have no issues paying rent then there is little reason for them to want you out after 6 months.

eas

We did see the possible value in the 6 month break clause for sure, but it wasn't the 6 month break clause on it's own that made us change our minds, it was everything combined. The overwhelming feeling that we where the bottom of the relationship and that was not going to change, and possibly get worse.

Since then, we've been in contact with another letting agent about another property and things could not be better. The whole thing seems to be about us, not them.

And someone comes to do the lawn every 2 weeks.

Rasmus

A six month clause could be beneficial for the tenant in one way, but a clause that allows the agent to bring in a slew of viewings if the LL decides to sell is a losing situation for the tenant. This happened to a friend of mine, and as they were settled in the house they did not really want to move again, yet had to make time and effort in order to accommodate viewings (and there were many). I would never consider that kind of agreement - if you lease a home it is your home for the time you are renting it for.

PS OP I just spotted your post above, glad you found a good fit.

djimi

Im not actually sure that a clause that tries to allow a landlord to allow viewings would actually have any legal standing anyway. One of the basic laws of renting is that the tenant is entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property, and another is that nothing can be written into a lease that looks to reduce the tenants rights as set out in the RTA. A clause that seeks to allow viewings would certainly go against the tenants right to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

Rasmus

djimi wrote: »

Im not actually sure that a clause that tries to allow a landlord to allow viewings would actually have any legal standing anyway. One of the basic laws of renting is that the tenant is entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property, and another is that nothing can be written into a lease that looks to reduce the tenants rights as set out in the RTA. A clause that seeks to allow viewings would certainly go against the tenants right to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

Most likely. The fact that a tenant would have to contest that or fight it is enough of a reason to step back though.

SimonPRepublic

Tell them to get lost. You're not liable for any bills prior to signing your contract. The landlord has chosen to add a bit of oil to keep the house warm for viewings so that he had more chance of letting it - this has absolutely nothing to do with you.

djimi

SimonPRepublic wrote: »

Tell them to get lost. You're not liable for any bills prior to signing your contract. The landlord has chosen to add a bit of oil to keep the house warm for viewings so that he had more chance of letting it - this has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Well it does have something to do with the OP when they move into the property with a tank containing half the oil that the agency paid for...

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

Well it does have something to do with the OP when they move into the property with a tank containing half the oil that the agency paid for...

if the agency want the oil so bad let them syphon it out and the new tennants can go get thier own oil.

No way should any EA have the cheek to ask a tennant to pay for this. Oh and Im sure the tennant wasnt offered the oil minus 20% given that the Landlord could write the oil purchase off against their tax bill ...

chancers and whoever eventually agrees to needs to look long and hard at themselves.

djimi

The tenant is going to have to buy the oil either way, so in reality what difference does it make whether they are paying the agent for the 100L or whatever that is left in the tank, or they drain the tank and end up paying the oil company for the 100L plus the rest of the fill? Works out the same for the tenant either way; one way is an awful lot simpler than the other however...

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

The tenant is going to have to buy the oil either way, so in reality what difference does it make whether they are paying the agent for the 100L or whatever that is left in the tank, or they drain the tank and end up paying the oil company for the 100L plus the rest of the fill? Works out the same for the tenant either way; one way is an awful lot simpler than the other however...

Except in the first instance you have no way of verifying exactly how much oil is in the tank. Why should they trust the EA when they say theres whatever many hundred litres in the tank.

as for simple. its not hard to ring or even order oil online. 2 minutes delivered next day job done. The prospective tennant owes the EA no favours, and most of them wouldnt jump to apease a tennant so quickly so im afraid you reap what you sow.

Plus it landlord would have paid for the oil not the EA and you can be damn sure said landlord if tax compliant is writing that off as a tax deducatable expense. So the tennant should see the beneft of this or at least some of it, why should the landlord essentially make 20% profit on this oil sale.

djimi

You can dip a tank to get an idea of how much oil is left, cant you? I dont see that being too much of an issue tbh; even if its a case of coming to an arrangement with the agent for a cost of the remaining oil.

Honestly, who cares if the landlord is making a few quid profit of the oil from the tax? The tenant is going to have to pay for the oil one way or another; what does it matter at the end of the day whether they give the money to the landlord or to the fuel company, and is it really worth the hassle of trying to argue this with your new landlord?

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

You can dip a tank to get an idea of how much oil is left, cant you? I dont see that being too much of an issue tbh; even if its a case of coming to an arrangement with the agent for a cost of the remaining oil.

Honestly, who cares if the landlord is making a few quid profit of the oil from the tax? The tenant is going to have to pay for the oil one way or another; what does it matter at the end of the day whether they give the money to the landlord or to the fuel company, and is it really worth the hassle of trying to argue this with your new landlord?

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...

you can get an idea from dipping but not a precise reading. So surely the amount should be conservatively estimated.

as for the landlord making a few quid profit, why should he make a few quid profit and the tennant get nothing? If the EA said lets dip the tank and assume 5% less oil to ensure your not overpaying and then say heres another discount as the landlord can writ eit off against tax fair enough maybe.

Maybe it is a mountain out of a molehill but where does it stop if you agree to this ? Next of all they are charging you upfront as theirs credit with the bin company resgisterd with and so on so forth.

Sorry but not the renters problem. Landlord should write it off just like the tennant will write off any oil they leave in the tank when they leave.