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Letting Agent want us to pay oil bill

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    #62
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    If the tenant wants to make an issue of the landlord making a profit from the oil then more power to them, but honestly who would want to start such a stupid row with your new landlord before you have even moved in? The tenant stands to gain nothing from it; they will end up buying the oil anyway, and who knows, maybe the landlord will offer to pass the tax savings onto the tenant. The point being its not worth falling out over.

    If you dont want to pay for the oil that is in the tank then come to an arrangement to leave the same amount of oil when you leave. Itll probably cost more to do this than it would just to buy the oil now (assuming oil prices continue to rise), but at least everyone knows they havent been ripped off.

    And I agree, if dipping the tank only gives an estimate reading then the estimate should be conservative in favour of the tenant. Of course, I would say that looking at it from a tenants point of view!


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    #63
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    D3PO wrote: »
    as for the landlord making a few quid profit, why should he make a few quid profit and the tennant get nothing?

    the fact the landlord pays less for 200l of fuel is irrelevant to the tenant.

    the tenant is getting 200l of fuel at the same price from either the landlord or the fuel company.

    All the tenant needs to worry about is how much fuel is actually there and that they only pay for what is there.

    Yes its dubious behavior pocketing the tax back if that is the case by the landlord, but makes no difference to the tenant. and it saves them the hassle of having the tank drained and then refilled with oil they bought them self.

    the oil is in the tank, arrange a price with the landlord for how much he wants for it.

    But do so armed with the fact that you know there is no way of measuring the oil accurately and that you know he would get a reduced price. use them to negotiate a price cheaper for your self.


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    #64
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    like I said it regardless of anything else it sets a bad precedent. I refer to what I said whats next landlord says you owe x for credit on the bin account. I mean they shoudl pay it coz they will use it eventually right ??

    Tough luck on the landlord the same way whatever oil is left when the tennant leaves is tough luck on them. Do you believe the landlord is going to pay them for whatever oil is left in the tank when they leave ? I dont think so.


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    #65
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    D3PO wrote: »
    like I said it regardless of anything else it sets a bad precedent. I refer to what I said whats next landlord says you owe x for credit on the bin account. I mean they shoudl pay it coz they will use it eventually right ??

    Tough luck on the landlord the same way whatever oil is left when the tennant leaves is tough luck on them. Do you believe the landlord is going to pay them for whatever oil is left in the tank when they leave ? I dont think so.

    Utilities are not the same things as oil in the tank in fairness. You start paying utilities when you start using them; you have use of the oil in the tank so why shouldnt you pay for it?

    An agreement needs to be made, in writing (in the lease preferably) about how to handle such a situation. Either both parties agree that the same amount will be left at the end of the lease as was in the tank when the tenancy started, or the tenant agrees to buy the oil from the landlord at the start and the landlord agrees to reimburse for what is left at the end.

    How do other people handle such situations? Is it the norm to start renting with an empty oil tank?


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    #66
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    D3PO wrote: »
    like I said it regardless of anything else it sets a bad precedent. I refer to what I said whats next landlord says you owe x for credit on the bin account. I mean they shoudl pay it coz they will use it eventually right ??

    Tough luck on the landlord the same way whatever oil is left when the tennant leaves is tough luck on them. Do you believe the landlord is going to pay them for whatever oil is left in the tank when they leave ? I dont think so.

    so dont leave any oil in the tank.
    Thing is this isnt an account, or a bill etc, the oil is a tangible thing, its sat right there in the bucket. have the landlord remove it and dont pay him and have to arrange a delivery on the day you move in. Or simply buy it off him.

    If, when it comes to moving out and you have oil in the tank offer to sell it to the landlord/next tenant or drain it and take it with you.


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    #67
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    thegreatiam wrote: »
    so dont leave any oil in the tank.
    Thing is this isnt an account, or a bill etc, the oil is a tangible thing, its sat right there in the bucket. have the landlord remove it and dont pay him and have to arrange a delivery on the day you move in. Or simply buy it off him.

    If, when it comes to moving out and you have oil in the tank offer to sell it to the landlord/next tenant or drain it and take it with you.

    The tennant isnt being given the option to buy here. They are being told they have to pay x for the oil in the tank.

    Sorry but if somebody approached me with that attitude id tell them to sing for it immediatly. Its completely different than them being offered the option to buy the oil at such a price assuming aconservative estimate of what is left or being told that if they dont want to its no problem the landlord can drain said oil.

    thats simply not the case here.


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    #68
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    D3PO wrote: »
    The tennant isnt being given the option to buy here. They are being told they have to pay x for the oil in the tank.

    Sorry but if somebody approached me with that attitude id tell them to sing for it immediatly. Its completely different than them being offered the option to buy the oil at such a price assuming aconservative estimate of what is left or being told that if they dont want to its no problem the landlord can drain said oil.

    thats simply not the case here.

    I wouldn't, I would recognise that I will need some oil sooner or later and offer to buy it from him. but I would measure it, and get a quote from the oil company and make a reasonable offer. If the LL disagrees then I would let him swing and have him remove it or find somewhere else to live.

    You need the oil, that is almost 100% indisputable. The landlord needs to be compensated for the oil he has bought. There will be a meeting ground where both will be happy. Why make extra hassle for your self by refusing to buy the oil, pissing the landlord off and having to find another property?


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    #69
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    thegreatiam wrote: »
    I wouldn't, I would recognise that I will need some oil sooner or later and offer to buy it from him. but I would measure it, and get a quote from the oil company and make a reasonable offer. If the LL disagrees then I would let him swing and have him remove it or find somewhere else to live.

    You need the oil, that is almost 100% indisputable. The landlord needs to be compensated for the oil he has bought. There will be a meeting ground where both will be happy. Why make extra hassle for your self by refusing to buy the oil, pissing the landlord off and having to find another property?

    yes you do need the oil BUT they may prefer to buy it in gallon drums for example for budgetry reasons (despite the fact it costs more per litre) so thats the first thing. They should not be told by an EA they have to pay 200 for oil.

    The EA is dictating to the tennant what is going to happen thats not how it should be. If the EA approached it rationally and in a reasonable manner fair enough, but they havent they didnt offer to dip , they didnt offer to agree a price, they didnt offer any solutions they just told the OP they have to pay 200 euro for oil in the tank.

    I have no issue negotiating with somebody but I'm not going to negotiate with somebody who starts with such an attitude. Id much rather make them drain the tank.


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    #70
    thegreatiam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    D3PO wrote: »
    They should not be told by an EA they have to pay 200 for oil.

    The EA is dictating to the tennant

    I have no issue negotiating with somebody but I'm not going to negotiate with somebody who starts with such an attitude. Id much rather make them drain the tank.

    I actually agree with all of this, but I would use the opportunity to get a cheap load of oil with the leverage in my favour before creating a load of hassle for myself just because of a perceived attitude of a third party.

    negotiate first, if that fails then tell them to sling their hook and find another tenant


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    #71
    eas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭eas


    For the sake of the EA involved, in the odd chance that they might be reading this and recognize the scenario - after we told them we where not happy to pay for the oil and offered an alternative (agreed to leave the same amount on leaving) they where fine. The main thing here, no matter how you look at it, IMO the EA tried to pull a fast one on us, and that's where we lost confidence.


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    #72
    Merch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Merch


    D3PO wrote: »
    like I said it regardless of anything else it sets a bad precedent. I refer to what I said whats next landlord says you owe x for credit on the bin account. I mean they shoudl pay it coz they will use it eventually right ??

    Tough luck on the landlord the same way whatever oil is left when the tennant leaves is tough luck on them. Do you believe the landlord is going to pay them for whatever oil is left in the tank when they leave ? I dont think so.

    First paragraph
    Dont tenants get their own bin account, they'd be liable for setting that up and having their own utilities, I cant imagine a landlord would want to be involved in that, they could seek out the best deal for whatever suits them.

    Second,
    I wouldnt say its tough luck on either party, if the landlord or EA didn't say anything then its like free oil,(ie if they werent clued in enough to check at the start, then how would they ever prove thats how much was in it, unless they kept the receipt and then that would seem valid) but if they do say something and thats what this thread is about, then its worth making a simple note of it in the lease and that could be offset against whats left at the end of the lease, if they leave less oil, then they pay, if its more oil, they are paid.
    I believe you suggested that the landlord was making a profit on the oil?
    well unless they charged more for it then they paid for it, thats incorrect really, it seems like it is a reasonable expense for them and that the person that uses it should pay for the oil?
    I wouldnt pay for a previous tenants utilities or a future tenant, why would a landlord?

    People are getting annoyed because they cant pull a fast one and are unwilling to make arrangements and discuss things, I wouldnt want to deal with anyone like that in any walk of life and I have come across people like that, that will argue with you over the slightest thing. I have had landlords that have been absolute douchebags, but its easy to get around that, particularily these days, reason, if their ability to deal with reason isnt available, then you can go to the PRTB.
    I have taken a landlord to the PRTB, I made reasonable attempts to deal with the situation (that doesnt mean I think all landlords or all tenants are asshats). I believe the PRTB will want to see that you have attempted to defuse and resolve an issue before it came to them. What some posters are suggesting here doesn't equate to that.


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