2,900 cattle for the first live export vessel destined for Libya

Twoelles

I have just seen this come up on facebook as an protest group is organising a vigal tomorrow night, but I have to say I was really shocked to discover that we are exporting such a high number, live, and on such a long an dangerous journey. I thought these days most meat was slaughtered and then exported (or is this me being really naive).

and what about the welfare issues, how do they get fed and watered, how many get injured when the crossing gets rough. How stressful it must be to go from a lush irish field to be crammed into a dark space for weeks.

Is this still a normal practice and what do you think about it?

Sully

What's the connection with Waterford? Or did ya post in the wrong forum OP? o_O

Twoelles

Sorry I missed that bit out. All the cattle are being gathered here and loaded on at the waterford port, the vigil i seen is going to be in waterford and I live in waterford

Psychedelic

They're being shipped from the port in Belview.

http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/174605.html
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/first-exports-to-libya-to-leave-in-two-weeks-28956291.html

I'd assume these animals are being exported for breeding purposes and are not going to be just slaughtered on arrival in Libya, so they should be taken care of during shipping.

feelgoodinc27

Stress will affect the condition of an animal and in turn its value. So its in the shippers interest to ensure they are well taken care of, also animal welfare is regulated to a high standard in Ireland.

Twoelles

Interesting articles, thank you. Do you know why the trade stopped 16 years ago

Trotter

They used to export cattle from the dock on the Quay in Waterford when I was a kid. My Grandad used to take me down to stand near the ramp to see the cattle coming off the trucks and up onto the ship. He used to tell me they were going on their Summer holidays to Libya and Egypt.

They were going on their holidays right?

Twoelles

feelgoodinc27 wrote: »

Stress will affect the condition of an animal and in turn its value. So its in the shippers interest to ensure they are well taken care of, also animal welfare is regulated to a high standard in Ireland.

maybe in Ireland but what about once they leave our shores - there are photos circulating that are quite horrific that seem to paint a very different story of the shippers

feelgoodinc27

Thats down to the condition of the animal, if they arrive in a poor state its hardly going to encourage repeat business.

mike65

Twoelles wrote: »

Interesting articles, thank you. Do you know why the trade stopped 16 years ago

BSE, the Libyans suddenly decided they didn't like Irish beef as much as the Irish liked Gadflys guns :pac: They ended the ban years ago but the trade only now resumes and I suspect the controversy that gathered around live exports is the reason.

mccarthy37

Twoelles wrote: »

I have just seen this come up on facebook as an protest group is organising a vigal tomorrow night, but I have to say I was really shocked to discover that we are exporting such a high number, live, and on such a long an dangerous journey. I thought these days most meat was slaughtered and then exported (or is this me being really naive).

and what about the welfare issues, how do they get fed and watered, how many get injured when the crossing gets rough. How stressful it must be to go from a lush irish field to be crammed into a dark space for weeks.

Is this still a normal practice and what do you think about it?

Well I suppose if they buy in on the huff they can be guaranteed it will be 100%
beef. We are such a trust worthy nation in the eyes of the world right now aren't we.

mike65

Getting paid should be the concern of the exporters.

farmer_dave

Psychedelic wrote: »

They're being shipped from the port in Belview.

http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/174605.html
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/first-exports-to-libya-to-leave-in-two-weeks-28956291.html

I'd assume these animals are being exported for breeding purposes and are not going to be just slaughtered on arrival in Libya, so they should be taken care of during shipping.

The fact that these are all beef bulls and they are looking at the possibility of taking Holstein bulls later indicate that these are going for meat processing.

At the weight of 240kg - 350kg they would probably require finishing (continued growth) before being sent to the slaughterhouse.

As there is no mention of heifers or cows then this appears to me to be for meat rather than breeding.

Nypd

I think it's business this city badly needs.

wellboytoo

The farmers need another outlet other than the half dozen meat magnates they are beholding to at the moment since the gov closed all the small slaughter houses in their wisdom.
They are going for meat and the ship is built for live cattle so layerage is catered for.
It is the eventual end user in this case is shipping the animals so one would imagine it is in theor interest to get them there alive and kicking.

wellboytoo

Twoelles wrote: »

I have just seen this come up on facebook as an protest group is organising a vigal tomorrow night, but I have to say I was really shocked to discover that we are exporting such a high number, live, and on such a long an dangerous journey. I thought these days most meat was slaughtered and then exported (or is this me being really naive).

and what about the welfare issues, how do they get fed and watered, how many get injured when the crossing gets rough. How stressful it must be to go from a lush irish field to be crammed into a dark space for weeks.

Is this still a normal practice and what do you think about it?

To answer your question I think it is a normal part of the meat trade and assuming it is done professionally I would have no problem with it.
But I suspect you have an idealistic objection to it by the way you phrased your question?

Twoelles

wellboytoo wrote: »

To answer your question I think it is a normal part of the meat trade and assuming it is done professionally I would have no problem with it.
But I suspect you have an idealistic objection to it by the way you phrased your question?

I do indeed have an idealistic objection to it mainly because in my own naivety I didn't even know that animals were transported that distance live (but seen as it hasn't happened for 16 years I think i can be forgiven:)).

I do have an interest in animal welfare and in my ideal little world, livestock wouldn't have to go through this kind of stress, but back in the real world I also understand the importance of this trade to the Irish economy.

wellboytoo

Twoelles wrote: »

I do indeed have an idealistic objection to it mainly because in my own naivety I didn't even know that animals were transported that distance live (but seen as it hasn't happened for 16 years I think i can be forgiven:)).

I do have an interest in animal welfare and in my ideal little world, livestock wouldn't have to go through this kind of stress, but back in the real world I also understand the importance of this trade to the Irish economy.

I know a 72 year old truck driver who specialises in live animal transport and is just back from a run from Azerbaijan!
Now thats a long haul!

TheGormog

wellboytoo wrote: »

I know a 72 year old truck driver who specialises in live animal transport and is just back from a run from Azerbaijan!
Now thats a long haul!

And there was me thinking that the only specialist in live animal transport was the driver of the number 4 bus from Dublin to Tramore.

STIG83

Whats peoples problem with bringing business to Waterford city?
And it wouldn't surprise me the ones protesting never stepped foot on a farm in their life!!

trevm

STIG83 wrote: »

Whats peoples problem with bringing business to Waterford city?
And it wouldn't surprise me the ones protesting never stepped foot on a farm in their life!!

Here Here!
This is good news for the city

SomeGirl123

It doesn't matter whether someone has stepped foot on a farm or not. It doesn't make someones opinion concerning cruelty to animals any less valid. Just cos you have not been to a concentration camp does it mean you can't have an opinion on them.

inforfun

Could tell a few stories from my time working in shipping and dealing with Lebanese shipowners whose core business was cattle transport.
If this shipment is done by those kind of cowboys you ld be "lucky" if 50% of the animals arrive alive.

Twoelles

trevm wrote: »

Here Here!
This is good news for the city

but is it? From what i have been reading not much of the money is going into the city. The cattle are from all over Ireland, the transport lorries are local to where the cattle are coming from so its just the export company....does anyone know how many jobs the export company has created for the city?

hardybuck

I can remember them being loaded onto ships on the quay as well, it's not too long ago now.

Cattle that are allowed leave on the hoof go at a far lower price than meat which has been slaughtered and prepared in Ireland.

At the moment we probably have more international demand for beef than we can supply. We shouldn't be allowing any livestock to leave the country to leave like this, as it takes a great deal of money out of our economy.

That's before we go down the road of animal welfare.

allthedoyles

The ship sailed at 4pm today and is giving ETA Libya 27th February :

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=372273000

Voyage Related Info (Last Received)

Draught: 5.7 m
Destination: MISRAHTAH LIBYA
ETA: 2013-02-27 13:00
Info Received: 2013-02-19

wellboytoo

Its kind of ironic that this thread is trying to get a head of steam going about exporting live cattle from Waterford/Ireland in a negative way, whilst we are exporting 80000 people and families a year because of lack of oppurtunities for them in dear old Ireland.

Max Powers

first off: candle light vigil for the exported cows....give me a break, its like some sort of joke.
2nd: even if you are some cow lover, they are using Irish standards for their trip.
3rd absolutle great news for Waterford Port and the South east.

wellboytoo

Twoelles wrote: »

but is it? From what i have been reading not much of the money is going into the city. The cattle are from all over Ireland, the transport lorries are local to where the cattle are coming from so its just the export company....does anyone know how many jobs the export company has created for the city?

I dont know exactly but 2900 catlle wont appear in one day someone has to feed them, muck out ,do the paper work, act as drovers, farmers will be providing feed to the layerage and the ship etc, if this is ongoing it will provide significant jobs and revenue to the local economy.

DeiseforLiam

I think the reason they are exported live is so that they can be slaughtered in a Halal manner (slit throat and left to bleed out) so maybe that is also a reason for the protests.

wellboytoo

Jenny1 wrote: »

I think the reason they are exported live is so that they can be slaughtered in a Halal manner (slit throat and left to bleed out) so maybe that is also a reason for the protests.

Halal slaughter happens in this country