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2,900 cattle for the first live export vessel destined for Libya

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13

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    #62
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    The transportation alone would cause any living thing distress (cruelty / suffering whatever you like to call it)...that is not an assumption - I think it is fact - you may disagree.


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    #63
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    The transportation alone would cause any living thing distress (cruelty / suffering whatever you like to call it)...that is not an assumption - I think it is fact - you may disagree.

    Of course It's an assumption - I have no idea how you can call it a fact

    You seem to that that everything that you think is a fact


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    #64
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    I assume you do not like people with differing opinions to your own

    I don't give a damn about people having different opinions to my own - but when they try to pass these opinions off as facts then it annoys me


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    #65
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    You made assumptions in your post regarding water and food supply... you even used the phrase:
    'I also assume that because these boats are being fitted to the highest standards...''
    Yet you don't like when others make assumptions - sounds like double standards to me.
    What do you find so offensive about my opinion that you are starting to use offensive language like 'i don't give a damn'? I don't like to see suffering of any kind. I know that animals suffer distress when transported and distress is suffering.


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    #66
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    The transportation alone would cause any living thing distress (cruelty / suffering whatever you like to call it)...that is not an assumption - I think it is fact - you may disagree.

    It is a fact or you think its a fact? Even if you say its a fact the exact same can be said for cows on trucks or sticking a cow into a "horse box" by a farmer to bring it to the market.

    Its completely unnatural to the cow so its without a doubt going to cause distress, should we outlaw cows being transported on trucks or trailers?

    At the end of the day if the cows are going on ships there is legislation in place to assure there is a level of care to the animal they will have access to food/water.

    Why can we be sure of this? Because a boat of dead cows isn't much good to them, if they wanted that they'd have them killed before leaving Ireland. :)

    Your assumption on the level of distress caused on a ship is purely an assumption, you've not posted any evidence supporting it.

    If you post something to at least backup your claims thats one thing but until then your argument is effectively meaningless.


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    #67
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    You mention ''Its completely unnatural to the cow so its without a doubt going to cause distress'' then you say I should back up MY claims that they suffer distress on a ship with evidence. Am I the only one who has to back up my claims with evidence.
    Also I am not talking about 'outlawing' anything. I am merely giving my opinion - I have a sense of personal social responsibility and live on my own terms. I do not eat meat and so do not partake in the demand for this sort of thing. You can do as you please. I am not saying you should not allowed to be.


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    #68
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    You made assumptions in your post regarding water and food supply... you even used the phrase:
    'I also assume that because these boats are being fitted to the highest standards...''
    Yet you don't like when others make assumptions - sounds like double standards to me.
    What do you find so offensive about my opinion that you are starting to use offensive language like 'i don't give a damn'? I don't like to see suffering of any kind. I know that animals suffer distress when transported and distress is suffering.

    Yes I did clearly state that mine were assumptions - assumptions based on the fact that the boat had 500k to bring it up to Irish standards for cattle transport, based on the fact that a qualified Vet will be on board during the journey, based on the fact that the department of Agri has rules for feed and water supply for the boat for this journey and on the fact that there are many other rules and regulations which must be adhered to

    Unless you are on the boat with the animals then everything is an assumption

    However the rational for my assumptions is based on the sound facts at hand - your assumptions are based on what exactly??


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    #69
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    I think it is an attack on me/ my opinion to say that my argument is meaningless. I did not think I was having an argument, I thought I was voicing an opinion but it does appear to be popular and so I am being marginalised.


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    #70
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    Tipp Man - you've said the same thing in the last 3 posts. I understand you don't have a problem with the transport becasue of your 'sound' assumptions. That's fine. I do not agree with the transportation, and that's all I can tell you - It causes distress to animals. I do not advocate or partake in anything of that nature.


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    #71
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    Cabaal - are you writing as a moderator for the site or just your own personal opinions?


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    #72
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    You mention ''Its completely unnatural to the cow so its without a doubt going to cause distress'' then you say I should back up MY claims that they suffer distress on a ship with evidence. Am I the only one who has to back up my claims with evidence.
    Also I am not talking about 'outlawing' anything. I am merely giving my opinion - I have a sense of personal social responsibility and live on my own terms. I do not eat meat and so do not partake in the demand for this sort of thing. You can do as you please. I am not saying you should not allowed to be.

    A baby in the back of a car on a long journey will often cry loudly whilst on the trip

    Is there any harm done to the child on this trip which is causing it so much distress?

    Should we therefore ban children from car (or any) journey's - especially journey's which will cause distress??


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    #73
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    I think it is an attack on me/ my opinion to say that my argument is meaningless. I did not think I was having an argument, I thought I was voicing an opinion but it does appear to be popular and so I am being marginalised.
    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    Tipp Man - you've said the same thing in the last 3 posts. I understand you don't have a problem with the transport becasue of your 'sound' assumptions. That's fine. I do not agree with the transportation, and that's all I can tell you - It causes distress to animals. I do not advocate or partake in anything of that nature.

    The problem is that you passed off your opinions as facts

    When you start talking about animal welfare, cruelty and suffering then you need a lot more than just your opinion to back it up

    In fact you are doing it above - you have no idea how much or little distress the journey is causing the animals.


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    #74
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    Again, I never mentioned banning anything. Live as you please and I will leave as I please. But I do not agree with the transportation and I would not partake in it or the demand for it. I personally sleep better at night.


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    #75
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    Again, I never mentioned banning anything. Live as you please and I will leave as I please. But I do not agree with the transportation and I would not partake in it or the demand for it. I personally sleep better at night.

    Can you show me where i said you wanted anything to be banned?? or even mentioned the word banned?


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    #76
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    okay tipp man, opinion fact whatever.. i don't agree with it, thats all I was saying. I don't know their exact current conditions.....I'm sure they are sitting on the deck now sipping champagne listening to piano music...


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    #77
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    You did say 'ban' as follows: ''Should we therefore ban children from car (or any) journey's'' - I responded saying i did not want anything banned. Keep up man!! :)


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    #78
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    okay tipp man, opinion fact whatever.. i don't agree with it, thats all I was saying. I don't know their exact current conditions.....I'm sure they are sitting on the deck now sipping champagne listening to piano music...

    No champagne but they have it fairly cushy


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    #79
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    You mention ''Its completely unnatural to the cow so its without a doubt going to cause distress'' then you say I should back up MY claims that they suffer distress on a ship with evidence.

    Its a fact its unnatural for a cow to be on a truck....it has feet after all not wheels :)

    Its also very likely certainly to cause a certain level of stress....of course if you'd like I can say it causes no stress. It makes no difference to me.

    Even if i say it causes no stress your claims stem from the fact that you claim that transport on a ship causes far more stress then any truck transporting does.

    If this wasn't the case then you'd be posting about animals being transported alive on trucks and how awful this is, but your not doing that so this suggests that trucks perhaps aren't all that bad but ships are very bad.

    So its reasonable to expect evidence to backup your claims of the higher amount of stress caused and/or mistreatment which you claim occurs when they are transported via ships.

    Nobody's attacking you like you stated, its merely a request to provide something to backup what your saying. Otherwise they are just assumptions.

    Bottom line is dead cow = lost money as they want them alive when they get to the destination, its in their interest and they also have to ensure they meet Irish legislation when transporting them from Ireland.


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    #80
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    First off cows cant swim so based on your logic (of not having wheels) they should not be going over water either.
    You make a huge amount of assumptions about me in your post - I am unsure why - does my opinion agrivate you in some way?
    I never said shipping is any more or less stressful than truck transportation - I've stated that I am a vegetarian and do not partake in the demand or need for any of this. I do not have to post about truck transportation just to validate my opinion on the shipping. Anyhow I only posted a comment on boards.ie as I thought it was a place for open coversation and debate - I am not an activist & not trying to change the world.


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    #81
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    First off cows cant swim so based on your logic (of not having wheels) they should not be going over water either.
    .

    WOW just WOW

    Of course they can swim - they can swim a damn sight better than you or I can


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    #82
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    are you speakng as a moderator for the site in asking me for 'evidence / backup' for my 'claims' or is this just your personal post?


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    #83
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    why cant they swim over then :)


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    #84
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    although the ones I've met couldnt'.....


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    #85
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    and just in case you think i'm lying to you - here is the proof

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7wkifwp_1k


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    #86
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    I just looked that up too ...haha


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    #87
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    SomeGirl123 wrote: »
    although the ones I've met couldnt'.....

    couldn't what?? Swim??


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    #88
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    I can't swim so they prob would get there faster than me


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    #89
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    this is all very strange - do you want me to say I am wrong and that it is fine to transport animals and causes no problems for them? I have an opinion - I don't have evidence Im not in court. But my opinion stands whether you like it or not. If one is a farmer of course they will not agree with me and I respect that others have their own opinions on what is right and wrong but somethings are fact. And captivity and transporation causes distress to animals/ any living thing. End of story (in my mind anyway).


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    #90
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    Yeah they were nervous....it was a beginners class :))


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    #91
    SomeGirl123
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭SomeGirl123


    just joking...obviously I was wrong about cows not being able to swim.


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