Is it Time for the tui &co to step up?

drvantramp

courtesy of asti-fightback


Reasons to vote No to Croke Park 2 by ASTI FIGHTBACK
General
 Since the economic crisis struck in 2008, the Government (whether FF/Green or FG/Labour) has exploited the crisis to repeatedly and relentlessly attack the pay and conditions of public servants.
 The attacks on public servants began a full two years before the Troika arrived (November 2010) and thus the Government cannot claim they have ‘no choice’ but to attack our pay and conditions. They cannot blame it on the Troika.
 The reason the Government is looking for another €1bn in cuts is because its economic policies are not working: “... the Croke Park agreement was on course to deliver €3.3 billion of savings by 2015 — but … lack of growth in the economy meant that the Government now had to find another €1bn… to meet … deficit targets.” (www.impact.ie/12/11/29/Unions-and-management-meet-on-Croke-Park-.htm)
 However, there is nothing that says the Government must take that extra €1 billion from public sector workers. They could simply introduce a higher tax rate for EVERYONE earning over a specific amount, e.g. €80,000. But the Government has made the choice to attack public sectors workers because they see us as an easy target (thanks in no small part to the failure of our union leaders to lead any resistance).
 Read the points below to see what is now being demanded of us in Croke Park 2:
Pay
 Further pays cuts despite promises of CP1: cuts of 5.5–10 per cent in salaries above €65,000; no payment for Supervision & Substitution. Cuts in pension for those above €32,500. Pay cuts will have knock-on effects for future retirees.
 Pause or suspension of increments for 6 months to 3 years. ‘Suspension’ can lead to further cuts or elimination. For example, qualification allowances which were suspended for new entrants in March 2012 were abolished by the end of the same year.
 Performance management at the level of the individual: if you don’t meet the agreed performance criteria, then you could be denied your 12-month, or 15-month, increment. In other words, incremental progression would no longer be automatic.
 Threat to allowances? Qualification and post allowances could be ‘bought out’: “the Parties agree to enter into central negotiations with a view to reaching a generally applicable agreement on measures by which loss arising from the elimination of pensionable allowances can be ameliorated…” (2.29)
Conditions
 Ever-increasing burden of hours: in addition to the retention of the 33 Croke Park hours, we would have to do an additional 45 minutes substitution per week, and be available for five periods instead of the current three.
 New Junior Cycle: Extra hours to come next year with the full introduction of the New Junior Cycle from 2014. Teachers will be expected to administer and mark Standardised Tests as well as the new School Cert. This will also represent a further pay cut for those teachers who currently work under contract in July to mark exams for the State Examinations Commission.
 Continued support for JobBridge (formerly the FAS Work Placement Programme): We’ve already seen how ICT technicians are working for free in our schools under this scheme; the same could happen to unemployed teachers. (CP2, 1.11)
 Casualisation to continue: Despite promises going in to the talks, the problem of part-time and non-permanent teachers is not addressed in CP2. As the Teachers Union of Ireland put it: “Casualisation is a cancer that is eating away at our profession … it was not addressed, it
simply was not addressed in the context of these discussions.” (John MacGabhann, Gen Sec TUI, Morning Ireland, 28 February 2013)
 Next to nothing for new entrants: Promises of a ‘small’ increase in pay is just a sop to new entrants. It would represent a small increase following a large additional pay cut. None of the other issues are being addressed, i.e. the inferior career-average pension scheme (just released in a circular), the elimination of allowances and S&S payments — not to mention the lack of job prospects with further reductions in staffing levels planned (CP2, 2.11)
 New entrants under CP2 to be protected: “The unions have insisted and the Government has agreed that protection of pay under this proposed ‘agreement’ applies to those who enter the public service during the lifetime of the ‘agreement’.” (asti.ie) This finally acknowledges that our union leaders did NOT seek such protection for new entrants under CP1.
Alternative
 A Yes vote would rule out any alternative. We would have to comply with the terms of Croke Park 1 and 2. That means further pay cuts, longer working hours, further threats to increments and allowances via performance management and the review of allowances, and full cooperation with the new Junior Cycle. Despite the promises that it would be the ‘last ask’ of public servants, the Government could easily be back looking for more before 2016 — not to mention that fact that our conditions will be further eroded in the meantime (e.g. we saw how sick leave arrangements were changed substantially under CP1 even though it wasn’t mentioned in the agreement).
 A No vote would raise the possibility of a different approach to dealing with the Government’s unrelenting attacks on public servants and the teaching profession. A number of unions, particularly those on the front line, walked out of the talks and have pledged to defend their members from further Government attacks. This is what trade unions should be doing: fighting for their members rather than selling them out in negotiations.
 The first step is to get a No vote in our own union. Then we need to ensure that we are not bounced into the overall agreement by other unions such as IMPACT and SIPTU. If teachers vote No, that vote must count as a No vote. If that means having to leave the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, then that must happen.
 We are currently operating under Croke Park 1 — remember, it was only two years ago, in January/February 2011, that members voted in favour of that agreement. If the Government moves to legislate for pay cuts, as it has threatened, then they would be in direct conflict with the terms of Croke Park 1, which promises no further pay cuts before 2014.
 When Croke Park ends in March 2014, we can put our demands to Government in terms of a successor to Croke Park, if that is what members want. At that point, however, it might be better not to negotiate any further agreements but instead to restore our right to take industrial action and deal with matters that arise on a case-by-case basis. Ultimately, this would pave the way for a more fighting trade unionism, whereby the union actively seeks to defend and even advance members’ interests.
 Finally, to understand why, sooner or later, we will have to take this approach, we only have to look across the water to England where the Government there is trying to introduce performance-related pay and get rid of national pay scales altogether: the “abolition of national pay bargaining for teachers is a drastic policy. It sweeps away mandatory pay scales… [and will]… allow head teachers to set pay based on individual assessments…” (‘Why teachers and students suffer from performance-related pay’, Richard Seymour, The Guardian, 7 Dec 2012).
 The National Union of Teachers in England has described this move as “a moment of extreme danger for our profession.” (www.teachers.org.uk) How long before we reach this point here in Ireland?

Get involved with ASTI FIGHTBACK. Contact us at:
astifightback@gmail.com facebook.com/asti.fightback

drvantramp

dated but still worth reflecting on

http://www.herald.ie/news/cut-for-teachers-but-asti-chief-still-earns-130k-28005393.html

acequion

Thank you so much for that drvantramp. Every teacher needs to print that out and have it up on staff room notice boards tomorrow morning. Teachers have to get bolshy as we are being attacked.Pure and simple. I notice far too much docility and defeatism amongst my collegues at my school and I find that as frightening as the Government attacks.

All teachers must get involved in the fight back!

Lord TSC

So I typed up the letter for the committee as I said I would, outlining my personal situation (and that of everyone my age and experience) and how the new deal would cripple the newly qualified teacher.

When I was done, I realized I only needed to add one or two more paragraphs to make it a letter that could be sent off to my local TDs. I know they cannot do much about it, but it's registering my disgust with someone. I've asked for their stances and their parties stances on the situation. Be interesting to see who replies back, especially living in Louth with Mr. "People's Champion" Gerry Adams representing me in the Dail.

Darwin

Well done Teamshadowclan, I have also written to several TDs, but I'm not holding my breath on getting a reply. Here's a further update on my previous post in relation to a forthcoming rally in Dublin this Saturday.

---

Colleagues,
A grass-roots rally of public servants, both serving and retired, in the education sector will take place in the
Gresham Hotel Dublin at 12:00 on this Saturday 9th March 2013. All public servants are very welcome to come along.

The focuses of the rally will be on:

securing a “NO” vote to Croke Park 2 in as many unions as possible
the need for unity amongst all public servants, both serving and retired, in the face of the on-going attacks on us, and
the way forward to better representation and mobilisation of public servants
sending a message to our unions, to ICTU and to the Government that this so-called agreement will not be accepted
For real equalisation of scales for new entrants!

This rally is not called by the Executive of any union and has absolutely nothing to do with ICTU, which clearly no longer represents public servants at all.
Please attend and advertise the rally to all other public servants you know, both within the Education Sector and outside it: All public servants are very welcome to come along.
The intention is to show our own union leadership and ICTU that in the absence of representation from them, we can and will mobilise ourselves.
We urge you to attend.
Regards,
Martin Marjoram (TUI Branch Chair IT Tallaght)
Michael Carr (TUI Branch Chair Dublin Colleges)
Gregor Kerr (INTO District 14)
Maria Parsons (TUI Branch Chair IADT Dun Laoghaire)
Claus Derenda (TUI Branch Chair IT Carlow)
Gerald Mills (IFUT UCD)
Richard Crowley (TUI Branch Chair Dundalk IT)
Thomas Dooley (TUI Acting Branch Secretary Dundalk IT)
Andrew Phelan (ASTI)
Paddy Healy (TUI Dublin Retired Members Association)
Kevin Farrell (TUI Executive, Area 15)
Eddie Conlon (TUI Executive, Area 16)
Niall Smyth (INTO)
Paul Farrell (TUI IT Tallaght)
Ronan Callanan (TUI Dublin City PP)

Darwin

TUI will be the first union to ballot their members this Friday - needless to say the answer is NO all the way.

km79

What are the asti at ?

deiseindublin

Darwin wrote: »

TUI will be the first union to ballot their members this Friday - needless to say the answer is NO all the way.

I don't know how we can vote on this on Friday when the full details don't appear anywhere yet.

I know that they are recommending a NO vote but how can one make an educated decision for themselves? There are far too many grey areas.

TheDriver

grey areas = No for me on that alone. Seems you won't get any more detail than whats already there.....

joebloggs32

Darwin wrote: »

TUI will be the first union to ballot their members this Friday - needless to say the answer is NO all the way.

It takes weeks to organise a ballot of members. There is not a chance of it being done this Friday

km79

joebloggs32 wrote: »

It takes weeks to organise a ballot of members. There is not a chance of it being done this Friday

Unless they knew for weeks what the "deal" was ....

Trotter

Im a primary teacher and I've been paying pension from my annual supervision payment since I started getting paid that money in 2008 ish.

Am I right in saying that the money I put into that pot is now gone?!!

ShamoBuc

Trotter wrote: »

Im a primary teacher and I've been paying pension from my annual supervision payment since I started getting paid that money in 2008 ish.

Am I right in saying that the money I put into that pot is now gone?!!

To the best of my knowledge.....yup!

km79

ShamoBuc wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge.....yup!

So we will get that refunded ?

byhookorbycrook

km79 wrote: »

So we will get that refunded ?

Not on my understanding, no.

ShamoBuc

km79 wrote: »

So we will get that refunded ?

I very much doubt it. If we would, the union would have mentioned it - but I'm not certain.

Trotter

Eh.. Where's my money gone?

This is pure and utter madness!?!

ShamoBuc

Trotter wrote: »

Eh.. Where's my money gone?

This is pure and utter madness!?!

Totally agree.

implausible

Surely, that s/s superannuation payment will turn up in our pensions at some stage?


What happens if we say "no". What then?

TheDriver

one for the pensions board.
However we officially get the average of last 3 years salary however if you become principal for last 3 years, you benefit as if you paid it for 40 years so its a win some loose some I'm afraid. Its only pi$$ amount to be honest but I will be asking the pensions board about it IF the deal goes through........

Darwin

joebloggs32 wrote: »

It takes weeks to organise a ballot of members. There is not a chance of it being done this Friday

We were told Friday by both our area rep and the Assistant General Secretary.

Chris68

TUI ballot papers are issued on Friday but don't have to be returned for 2 or 3 weeks.

km79

Has anyone seen or heard from an Asti rep ?

teacherhead

TUI are to issue a special of TUI news and I heard talk of regional meetings in advance of a ballot.

http://www.tui.ie/news-events/proposed-public-service-agreement-ballot-papers-to-issue-on-march-8-tui-executive-calls-for-emphatic-rejection.2972.html

trihead

Got this in a email today:


Dear colleague,

Information Meetings on proposed Public Service Agreement
The following information meetings on the proposed draft Public Service Agreement have been organised by TUI for the coming week and next week. Some venues are still to be confirmed and details will be sent as soon as possible. Members should attend the meeting that is most convenient for them. Our apologies for the short notice.

Wednesday 6th March
7pm Cavan (Kilmore Hotel) – branches in the north east

Thursday 7th March
7pm Galway (Menlo Park Hotel) – branches in the west
7pm Kilkenny (Newpark Hotel) – branches in south east

Tuesday 12th March
7:30pm Cork – branches in south
7:30pm Limerick – branches in mid-west

Wednesday 13th March
7:30pm Dublin West
7:30pm Mullingar – branches in midlands

Thursday 14th March
7:00pm Dublin city


Cathy Glavey

Teachers’ Union of Ireland
73 Orwell Road
Rathgar
Dublin 6

T: + 353 1 4922588 W: www.tui.ie E: cglavey@tui.ie

acequion

I've been told by a very good source that the standing committee of the ASTI have a meeting this Thursday 7th March and they will be deciding then on their recommendation.

It will be very interesting to see what they recommend!

deiseindublin

Anybody going to the meeting in IT Tallaght tomorrow at 4pm? I'll be still in school so can't go but would love a report back from it here if anybody has the time.

Miss Lockhart

deiseindublin wrote: »

Anybody going to the meeting in IT Tallaght tomorrow at 4pm? I'll be still in school so can't go but would love a report back from it here if anybody has the time.

Same here - way too early to be holding it I think.

teacherhead

There is a discrepancy between the info in the email reps received and the detail on the website, the email makes no reference to daytime meetings.

Details are a couple of posts back there. I'm living in kildare here and there is no local meeting! The website which was updated today has info about a meetingr in IT Carlow yesterday evening. It's not good enough in the middle of what could be a defining ballot for our profession.

The unions would want to get their act together, I'm not just a sideline critic, I want to be informed and inform others. It's not being made easy.

Lockedout

If the ASTI does not reject this deal then I'm leaving and Im on CEC. Think back to 1987 those old enough to. Terrible recession. Finances didnt collapse so quickly but we had nearly 15-20% unemployment. Unions did not get pay cuts and bully boy tactics. They actually managed to get modest pay increases!

Reject and then work to rule. Available for five periods a week-my arse. Where Will I get time to fill in for "voluntary " tutorship. However-teachers as a species are largely spineless so dont be surprised if the lemmings do vote YES.

km79

Lockedout wrote: »

If the ASTI does not reject this deal then I'm leaving and Im on CEC. Think back to 1987 those old enough to. Terrible recession. Finances didnt collapse so quickly but we had nearly 15-20% unemployment. Unions did not get pay cuts and bully boy tactics. They actually managed to get modest pay increases!

Reject and then work to rule. Available for five periods a week-my arse. Where Will I get time to fill in for "voluntary " tutorship. However-teachers as a species are largely spineless so dont be surprised if the lemmings do vote YES.

What does CEC mean ?

TheDriver

central executive I think. I love the username: Lockedout! Larkin here we come....

Iused2likebusts

after earlier stating I was considering voting yes. Im 100 % no now having considered the facts more and reading the arguments put forward here.

Darwin

I see there have been some questions about briefings from TUI. I was at a branch meeting where Aidan Kenny, AGS of TUI, gave a presentation. He spoke a lot about implications for 3rd level (my interest is in both second and third level). He basically said there were no negiotiations at all, despite what the media is reporting, and the CPA 2 document was nothing less than a dictat or bill of demands from the government side.

The original Croke Park agreement was an industrial relations agreement - and such agreements are not legally binding. I can't comment on the implications of this as I'm no legal expert, but I think what he is saying is that they require the agreement of the unions to change conditions of service. He also said that if they have to legislate as a result of a no vote to CPA 2, they can only cut pay and not conditions of service which are written into your contract.

doc_17

I was at a TUI meeting last night and some very inteesting things came out of it.

Take SNAs for example. What extra work or pay sacrifice is being asked of them? Nothing, bar theincrement pause which applies to everyone. How many SNAs are there? Maybe 10,000? That number almost cancels out the TUI if vote no when it comes to ICTU voting.

First they came for the communists but i didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the.....................

You all know the rest

drvantramp

Hey Doc17- copyright!!!! from september 2012




have great sympathy for the part timers I work with who have crap hours, no hope of securing 22 hours anytime in the next 10 years but if they weren't worried enough about their jobs last may to try and do something to protect their conditions, I'm not sure I'll be thanked for losing any sleep over it.[/QUOTE]


And you expect these people in above precarious positions to rock the boat?? No union meetings where I am btw, no steward in place...

As far I can see, the apathy is from the middle down, not the other way round. (Sure I'm alright Jack)



First they came for the basic payscale and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a NQT.
Then they came for the allowances and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a NQT.
Then they came for the rest of teachers and trade unionists and there was no one left in the union to speak for me.

teacherhead

We are where we are. It's where we go from here that is the issue.

I think the notion that this deal is good for new entrants needs to be exposed for the myth it is. There is an extra point at the top of the scale full stop.

There is by implication of the s&s in fact a likelihood that there will be less hours for these teachers and less chance of any security of tenure on a meaningful contract.

Thats an interesting point about the legal aspects of the so called agreement Re contracts, I'm going to get to one of the tui meetings this week or next.

I hope that we are not carried by an ictu majority, siptu and the into could carry the deal on their own. Do we need to leave ictu? We got done over by the same thing during the sustaining progress deals in the past, the so called TUI problem....

Darwin

The executive commitee of TUI said they would not be bound by the aggregate vote of ICTU, but we have heard that before after croke park 1. I agree fully, ICTU do not give a toss for our conditions and service, and the irony is TUI members indirectly pay a subscription to ICTU for the pleasure of getting shafted. TUI should disaffiliate from them immediately.

teacherhead

http://www.tui.ie/news-events/tui-president-tui-news-editorial-on-labour-relation-commission-proposals.2984.html

Inspector Coptoor

All well & good, but the TUI need to back off from supporting the government taking money from the 55 private schools in the country.

The figures published by the Times the other Morning were shockingly wrong.

All unions, all schools & all teachers need to come together on this. If everyone keeps shafting everyone else, the governments divide & conquer approach will keep working

teacherhead

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

All well & good, but the TUI need to back off from supporting the government taking money from the 55 private schools in the country.

The figures published by the Times the other Morning were shockingly wrong.

All unions, all schools & all teachers need to come together on this. If everyone keeps shafting everyone else, the governments divide & conquer approach will keep working

I'm not up to speed on this and it's off topic but if you're making an argument you should explain your position. Not saying you're wrong I just dont know that youre right, inform me please.

Inspector Coptoor

Basically - the TUI, as a union, are against private schools in this country.
It would also appear Ruairi Quinn & some members of government are.

Figures released on Monday quoted figures of "discretionary expenditure" for private schools of around €3700 per pupil.

This figure is just wrong as it doesn't take into account the fact that private schools pay their own capital costs.

I know it's a little off topic, but this kind of attitude will end up losing even more teacher jobs as private schools pay teachers privately to reduce the PTR & if this keeps going the way it's going teachers who are paid privately will be coming looking for jobs in public schools are already very thin on the ground.

Lord TSC

teacherhead wrote: »

http://www.tui.ie/news-events/tui-president-tui-news-editorial-on-labour-relation-commission-proposals.2984.html

Glad to see the impact on NQTs being discussed so early on, even if it subsequently disappears later on in the editorial.

On a follow-up, two days ago I said I posted emails off to all five of the Louth TDs.

Two days later, only one reply back, it being from Fergus O'Dowd. He said he'd further my concerns to Mr. Quinn and then get back to me. Not much yet, but a damn sight more than the other four who have yet to acknowledge my message...

joebloggs32

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

All well & good, but the TUI need to back off from supporting the government taking money from the 55 private schools in the country.

The figures published by the Times the other Morning were shockingly wrong.

All unions, all schools & all teachers need to come together on this. If everyone keeps shafting everyone else, the governments divide & conquer approach will keep working

The TUI is opposed to the idea of the state funding private schools, and quite rightly so in my opinion. However this is a completely different issue than the one at hand. If you want to air your views on private education then kick it off in a new topic

TheDriver

I got replies from FG TD only, nothing from Labour or opposition (surprisingly). FG response was quite frankly rude

acequion

That really is a disgrace that the FG TD would be rude. Just shows the arrogance of the majority government party.

I mailed my local Labour TD last week,26th Feb and so far, no reply.

Rudeness and silence.Says a lot about what they think of their public servants!

Darwin

I too got a reply from one FG TD and one Labour Senator. The TD gave the party line - this is the fairest deal on offer, how we are all making a great sacrifice and how it will deliver certainty on pay and conditions over the next 3 years - just like CPA 1 eh? (oh wait that didn't run 3 years did it?). The Labour response was much the same. No reply from another FG TD and nothing from FF.

Lord TSC

Darwin wrote: »

I too got a reply from one FG TD and one Labour Senator. The TD gave the party line - this is the fairest deal on offer, how we are all making a great sacrifice and how it will deliver certainty on pay and conditions over the next 3 years - just like CPA 1 eh? (oh wait that didn't run 3 years did it?). The Labour response was much the same. No reply from another FG TD and nothing from FF.

I hope they dare send that as a response to me....

TheDriver

f**king sacrificial lamb more like....

lennyloulou

joint union meeting in our school earlier this week. 30 out of 60plus staff turned up.staff very down and have given up. no fight left. out union reps on the staff are pro management anyhow they never fight our corner- we get 2 hours allocated towards CP1 hours even though we all come in to school from 5pm to 9pm to run the open night/tours/dems- big event- no extra hours given in lieu towards preparing/setting up class rooms. anyhow because of the bad feeling of this (and many more extra hours given without recognition for other events eg grad masses, awards ceremonies) now the CP2 being brought in ( Yes it will come in- ASTI are a joke- no back bone in them) our staff morale will be at an all time low - hard to keep up the good spirit!