Is it Time for the tui &co to step up?

byhookorbycrook

The loss of s and s is a paycut for everyone. The loss of sub cove for so many things is also a huge concern. We have 20+ teachers on our staff, who rarely miss days. However, even with a cert now, the first day is not covered by sub, force majeur, bereavement leave the same. So if each teacher only took 1 day, that's 20/183 a teacher would have extra children in their room, on tp of the 30 they already have. This needs to be shouted about,to staff and parents alike.

TheDriver

it will be shouted about when its too late.

I am also concerned that ASTI has something on their website about rostering for 5 periods but only being called for 2? I don't recall seeing that in the details, you can be called for 5 periods a week up to max of 2 hours and so many mins(including your lunch supervision) and max of 49 hours a year.

a NO is needed. Will labour vote through a pay cut on the public service.

Sheila Nunan sounded bad with a vested interest today

Juniorhurler

@ TheDriver.
I would not rely on labour at all to not vote a cut through. After all the minister running these negotiations and calling for us to suck it up is a labour minister. They have done nothing for the working man since being elected. I fear they might go the way if the pd and green parties after another election.

TheDriver

I think they WILL go the way of the PDs just like they did in 1997 after Dick Spring. Sad thing is that FF looks like a much straigher option at this stage. What the hell was Gilmore doing at the white house? was he afraid Enda would take too much limelight??So much for DL beginnings of Kathleen Lynch, Rabbitte and Gilmore and to think marxism was ideology in the past genre, Prionsias would not be liking their tasks....
My labour junior minister never answered by email, needless to say I look forward to his vote seeking door knock in a few years............

Darwin

Got this in an email this morning, perhaps people could circulate it, particularly in schools that have not yet voted.

Message from TUI President

Colleagues

We are into the last few days of voting on the current LRC proposals for an Extension to the Croke Park Deal. The executive committee were emphatic in their recommendation that TUI members vote NO to these proposals. I am concerned that our members may be swayed to vote yes by threats emanating from Kildare Street can I ask you as a branch chair to redouble your efforts to ensure that we get a large majority NO vote. Members must realise that under these proposals there are no winners every teacher and lecturer stands to lose not just money but hard won terms and conditions of employment. Remember the TUI has already stated that it will not be bound by any ICTU vote on these proposals. The executive committee are already considering strategies following a successful NO vote.

Never before was it more important for TUI members to stand shoulder to shoulder please make sure we get a maximum turnout and a maximum NO vote in your branch.

If my office can be of assistance to you in securing a large turn out and a large majority NO vote please feel free to ask.

Kind regards

Gerard P Craughwell
President
Teachers Union of Ireland
73 Orwell Road
Rathgar
Dublin 6

Phone: +353 1 492 2588
Fax: +353 1 492 2953
Mail: president@tui.ie
Web: http://www.tui.ie

Lord TSC

So can someone help me with something here.

Why is it that TUI members are going to be bound by a decision made by non-teachers? I get that we're all part of one larger group in terms of working for the same boss (the government), but if the unions are so against these proposals and a YES vote gets forced through, say the conditions of teachers are worsened despite most teachers voting NO, why do the teaching unions not say "We're not for this", and branch off?

Is there legal reasons (presuming so)? Can the teaching unions not reject the deal for teachers and tell the others to go away?

Juniorhurler

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So can someone help me with something here.

Why is it that TUI members are going to be bound by a decision made by non-teachers? I get that we're all part of one larger group in terms of working for the same boss (the government), but if the unions are so against these proposals and a YES vote gets forced through, say the conditions of teachers are worsened despite most teachers voting NO, why do the teaching unions not say "We're not for this", and branch off?

Is there legal reasons (presuming so)? Can the teaching unions not reject the deal for teachers and tell the others to go away?

That letter states that we will not be bound by ICTU.

spurious

Big 'No' vote in our place. People have had enough.

teacherhead

Should teachers preempt the no vote and begin a withdrawal at voluntary activities?

RealJohn

teacherhead wrote: »

Should teachers preempt the no vote and begin a withdrawal at voluntary activities?

I think that that might be counterproductive.

jonseyblub

There was going to be a big yes vote in our place until I held a union meeting to inform them of the conditions we'd be working if we accepted. I reckon I swayed most of them. However I reckon this is the biggest hurdle we have is that for some reason we as teachers seem very lackadaisical regarding these matters and most are happy to get their information from the SIPTU mouthpieces saying that its the best we can possibly get,instead of reading the bloody report themselves.

The swinger for me was the fact that there is so much we DONT know, in that the government could come back in 6 months time and say we have to work June and there will be nothing we can do about it if we vote yes.

I wouldn't sign a contract worth thousands of euro without reading it so I really don't understand why people would vote yes without reading the report which cumulatively will cost them thousands of euro over many years.

Lord TSC

Juniorhurler wrote: »

That letter states that we will not be bound by ICTU.

Oh. Right.

Well, I just displayed my lack of reading abilities

Juniorhurler

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Oh. Right.

Well, I just displayed my lack of reading abilities

No hassle. We all know teachers never read unnecessary details like instructions or letters. Well this one rarely does anyway.

whiteandlight

Whats the feeling in everyones schools now?

acequion

I'm worried.I don't think the ASTI has made enough of an effort to campaign for a NO vote. Our branch meeting during the week was very poorly attended and not much is being said where I work. The defeatism, complacency and general docility makes me want to scream.

I can understand that some people are in mortal dread of another across the board pay cut. However anyone who would vote yes because they just don't have the balls to vote no shouldn't even be in a trade union.

But overall I think the No will be carried by the ASTI members, however it's the size of the margin that I'd be worried about. We really need a big majority in order to send out a strong message.

deiseindublin

spurious wrote: »

Big 'No' vote in our place. People have had enough.

+1 - militantly No in ours yesterday!

Fizzical

Are the ASTI voting papers out yet? I've not got any and I'll be away for Easter. Getting worried that I'll not be able to vote if they arrive when I'm gone.

doc_17

looks like there will be enough votes for ICTU to try and ram down our throats.

In that event, the very least we should do is have a directive issued by the ASTI, TUI, INTO instructing all teachers to simply ignore the Croke Park Detention Hours.

What are they gonna do? Sack 50,000 teachers?

Lord TSC

As if I wasn't annoyed enough already, I got a reply from Ruairi Quinn this morning, care of my local TD. A love letter which had a big tear at the top of it cellotaped together when I opened the envelope. If a kid handed me up it as homework, I'd be giving out :rolleyes:

Says Mr. Quinn...

The proposals put forward [...] arise from an intesive and difficult set of negotiations between the Public Service Committee of ICTU and the government, that took place against a backdrop of continuing significant difficulties in the finances of the State.

(Negotiations? My understanding was these were demands issued to the unions in a take it or leave it mentality...)

It continues...

(Union) members now have an important decision to make and in my view, it is better for us all to allow them the time and space to reflect and come to the decision without any perceived pressure from any side. In light of that, I do not think that it would be helpful to this ongoing process for me to comment or elaborate upon proposals which were very carefully constructed by the LRC.

Two things I take from this;

1. "without any perceived pressure from any side" nearly strikes me as him saying that while he doesn't want to comment on it, he doesn't think I should be commenting on it either. I shouldn't be putting pressure on people to vote NO, even if it would destroy my job prospects.

2. He doesn't even have the guts to say he's for the cuts. The letter clearly gives the vibes that he believes they are unnecessary, but he stops short of actually saying they are what he wants, shifting any blame for the bad aspects of the proposal over to the LRC.

On top of that, compared to the letter I got back from Gerry Adams, this one comes across as if he didn't even bother to read what I sent off; there's a mention of NQTs in the opening line of the letter (omitted since it contained my name, address, etc) and then could have been sent to any person, teacher or not, as a catch-all response to any query about the vote.

TheDriver

doc_17 wrote: »

looks like there will be enough votes for ICTU to try and ram down our throats.

but TUI has stated they will not be bound by ICTU, will they have the balls to do an ASTI on it and leave ICTU?

Darwin

Quinn (and most of Labour) speak with forked tongues - I clearly remember him saying in an interview with Matt Cooper before the elections that we need 'increased performance from our academics', i.e. I will have the knife out out for them and low and behold here it is.

Benicetomonty

TUI vote no, overwhelmingly, at over 80%. ASTI ballots to be received this week.

doc_17

TUI VOTES NO.

80% of returned ballots vote against the LRC Proposals.#

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0326/378522-tui-rejects-croke-park-extension-deal/

doc_17

So. If TUI follows through with this are we to expect a few directives in the summer?

According to the government the first CP agreement will end immediately if it is rejected.

Lord TSC

Benicetomonty wrote: »

TUI vote no, overwhelmingly, at over 80%.

Benicetomonty

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Also

doc_17

Be very interesting to see how ASTI vote goes

doc_17

66% turnout

MacGyver007

doc_17 wrote: »

Be very interesting to see how ASTI vote goes

I would hope and expect that the TUI vote would strongly influence their ASTI colleagues.

doc_17

Yeah, we'll see. Just wondering if many of them have voted already?

TheDriver

doc_17 wrote: »

So. If TUI follows through with this are we to expect a few directives in the summer?

According to the government the first CP agreement will end immediately if it is rejected.

i would expect a wait until the Govt breaks the deal i.e. pay cuts which should come in July. Then the directives would start i.e. work to rule, no more CP hours, no more POR shuffles etc etc

doc_17

Yeah I should have said "when/if they break it".

Wonder how long it'll take for this legislation to appear? It's very disappointing that with Labour in government a Divide & Conquer approach is being used, and appears to be working

teacherhead

Hopefully it will encourage the asti and into yo reject also. Strong words Re ictu.

http://www.tui.ie/news-events/tui-members-reject-emphatically-the-proposals-on-an-extension-to-the-public-service-agreement.3064.html

Danger is they'll be invited back for more talks andwere back where we started, gonna get my ass to congress next week

Miss Lockhart

I'm delighted with the result but unfortunately what happened last time makes me sceptical anything good will actually come of this.

acequion

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Also

:D:D:D

joebloggs32

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I'm delighted with the result but unfortunately what happened last time makes me sceptical anything good will actually come of this.

The last time we were nearly on our own un opposition to cp1. This time there will also be the nurses and guards along with some others.
There is strength in numbers.

acequion

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

:D:D:D Fair play to TUI!

Midnight Sundance

Fair play to the TUI for having the guts to stand up!! I only hope the INTO will have the balls to follow suit. Sadly from listening round the staffroom it could be a yes.

acequion

I got the special ballot edition of Nuacht in the post today from ASTI but no sign of the ballot papers yet.

Any ASTI members out there got theirs yet?

Benicetomonty

acequion wrote: »

:D:D:D Fair play to TUI!

Oh. GIF not apt so, based on my (grantedly limited) knowlege of Citizen Kane. Im a sensitive soul, god help me

Lord TSC

I typed "Applause gif" into Google and used it to express how I felt :P

Benicetomonty

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I typed "Applause gif" into Google and used it to express how I felt :P

Only hope ASTI inspire similar reaction! Got an email today, ballot papers being mailed this week.

teacherhead

so...We know the result of the TUI ballot. What about the poll here?

TheDriver

So the President of TUi has now said we won't leave ICTU but won't be bound by their decision???

teacherhead

TheDriver wrote: »

So the President of TUi has now said we won't leave ICTU but won't be bound by their decision???

Playing it safe id say. It's early days yet

acequion

My ASTI ballot paper arrived today.

Must be returned by Friday,April 12th, which, thankfully, means that no one away for the holidays will miss out.

solerina

I filled in my ballot paper as soon as it arrived...its going in the post tomorrow !!!
No all the way for me !!

MacGyver007

My ballot paper also arrived today and was promptly popped back in the post with a big X in the NO box

tvnutz

MacGyver007 wrote: »

My ballot paper also arrived today and was promptly popped back in the post with a big X in the NO box

Just got mine this morning, big X in the no box and sent straight back.

sitstill

ASTI here also. Sent mine back this morning and voted No!