Is it possible to cut €1 Bn from County Council costs

Vizzy

As ye will likely know there is a thread running in relation to Croke Park 2 and the cuts that are necessary to achieve a €1 Bn cut in wage and allowance costs.
Anyway,one of the suggestions (from one poster in particular) is that it is possible to cut it all from County Council costs.Personally I don't think that it is possible at all,but even if it was economically possible it would lead to draconian cuts in service provision.

What do ye think ?

hfallada

Vizzy wrote: »

As ye will likely know there is a thread running in relation to Croke Park 2 and the cuts that are necessary to achieve a €1 Bn cut in wage and allowance costs.
Anyway,one of the suggestions (from one poster in particular) is that it is possible to cut it all from County Council costs.Personally I don't think that it is possible at all,but even if it was economically possible it would lead to draconian cuts in service provision.

What do ye think ?

Well Dublin city council is getting rid of all services that it doesn't have an advantage over the private sector. Eg bins which lose making. The loss making water will be gone soon to Irish water.

The council house residents could contribute more to their rent. Also have the staff that have had there jobs made no longer relevant due to the services that they no longer deal with eg bins been fired.

road_high

They could make savings by amalgamating many councils and sharing of county managers. Is it really neccessary in Kilkenny for instance that 20 mins down the road we have a completely different office and compliment of staff doing the same thing in Carlow? Economies of scale could be achieved in this way. Imagine a private sector co operating in this manner. Different HR offices just because it's a different county. They wouldn't last 5 minutes with such extravegance. The councils should be no different.

Rightwing

Thanks Vizzy. Could you put in a poll there and we'll get a proper reflection.

I believe councils are a complete waste of space. Grossly over staffed, and grossly overpaid. Look at these salaries:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/25497
According to the document, since January 1 this year, the annual salary of the Dublin city manager will be €189,301. The salary for the Cork county manager, the Fingal county manager, and the South Dublin county manager will be €162,062.
The managers of the Cork city council and the county managers of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Kildare, and Meath is €153,260.
The Limerick city manager receives an annual salary of €142,469, however the city managers of Galway and Waterford is €132,511.

They are doing work like digging up footpaths, messing with roads. Axe 50% of them, and you'll get your savings.

itzme

Vizzy wrote: »

As ye will likely know there is a thread running in relation to Croke Park 2 and the cuts that are necessary to achieve a €1 Bn cut in wage and allowance costs.
Anyway,one of the suggestions (from one poster in particular) is that it is possible to cut it all from County Council costs.Personally I don't think that it is possible at all,but even if it was economically possible it would lead to draconian cuts in service provision.

What do ye think ?

Was the suggestion not a €1bn reduction in the deficit? as opposed to a €1bn saving in their budget.

itzme

Rightwing wrote: »

They are doing work like digging up footpaths, messing with roads. Axe 50% of them, and you'll get your savings.

Can you post a link to any source showing that the wage budget for councils in Ireland is €2bn.
As you are stating clearly here that axing 50% will save €1bn.

Vizzy

Now we're making progress,
Road High,there are some amalgamations ongoing at present,North and South Tipp,Limerick City and County,Waterford City and County.
Unfortunately they will have limited savings(in the short term anyway) as people will still want/insist that they want to deal with their local council and this will be reasonable in some instances.
Also the likes of shared services(e,g, One HR office for the entire country) and central purchasing are progressing at pace.
Just to put your suggestion of combining Managers in context,if we get rid of 25 County Managers at €150,000 each,that a saving of €3M.
Only another €997 to go

Rightwing

Vizzy wrote: »

Now we're making progress,
Road High,there are some amalgamations ongoing at present,North and South Tipp,Limerick City and County,Waterford City and County.
Unfortunately they will have limited savings(in the short term anyway) as people will still want/insist that they want to deal with their local council and this will be reasonable in some instances.
Also the likes of shared services(e,g, One HR office for the entire country) and central purchasing are progressing at pace.
Just to put your suggestion of combining Managers in context,if we get rid of 25 County Managers at €150,000 each,that a saving of €3M.
Only another €997 to go

You are forgetting the lump sum payoffs and gold plated pensions .
How many council workers are there in the country ? I'd hazard a guess at about 40,000. It can quickly be seen what a waste of money these are.

Gumbo

hfallada wrote: »

Also have the staff that have had there jobs made no longer relevant due to the services that they no longer deal with eg bins been fired.

They have been redeployed.
Some bring centers now open 8am till 9pm because of this.

That is an increase in services IMHO.

Vizzy

itzme wrote: »

Was the suggestion not a €1bn reduction in the deficit? as opposed to a €1bn saving in their budget.

I presume you are referring to CP 2 ?

It is certainly my understanding that the €1Bn saving is from wages/allowances etc.
This will in theory lead to a reduction in the deficit(it would be anything like €1Bn though due to the loss in tax revenue,prsi etc)

Gumbo

Rightwing wrote: »

You are forgetting the lump sum payoffs and gold plated pensions .
How many council workers are there in the country ? I'd hazard a guess at about 40,000. It can quickly be seen what a waste of money these are.

This is a serious forum. Why guess? Go do some research on the topic and you will see how many there are.

The average salary in councils in Ireland is 39k.

How many students get free college in this country, that's a drain. How many farmers get massive grants, that's a drain etc etc

Rightwing

kceire wrote: »

This is a serious forum. Why guess? Go do some research on the topic and you will see how many there are.

The average salary in councils in Ireland is 39k.

How many students get free college in this country, that's a drain. How many farmers get massive grants, that's a drain etc etc

Provide a link. Then we will be able to make progress.

I agree that free education is a waste, and it won't be free for much longer.

Vizzy

Rightwing wrote: »

You are forgetting the lump sum payoffs and gold plated pensions .
How many council workers are there in the country ? I'd hazard a guess at about 40,000. It can quickly be seen what a waste of money these are.

Ah Rightwing you promised you would show me savings of a billion from County Councils and now you are telling me that by sacking half the County Managers will will be worse off because of their lump sums and pensions ?

You disappoint me !

Silentcorner

Ya a poll would be good.

I know it's not €1bn but savings could be made when it comes to wages and pensions at the top of the scale

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/leader-local/retired-limerick-city-manager-gets-310k-payoff-1-3590520

Every penny counts right...

I travel a particular road on a regular basis, it is constantly being resurfaced, I'm talking 6 times a year work is being carried out on sections of this road (approx 20km stretch) this would involve 5/6 pieces of big expensive machinery, 15-20 workers for 3-4 weeks at a time...over the last 5/6 years..now I am no road expert but surely that is unnecessary, I mean the road is and always has been perfectly fine...what would it save if it was left alone for a few years...

34 local authorities, surely savings can be found with centralised HR, purchasing etc...

Its only €30 million per local authority...

Rightwing

Vizzy wrote: »

Ah Rightwing you promised you would show me savings of a billion from County Councils and now you are telling me that by sacking half the County Managers will will be worse off because of their lump sums and pensions ?

You disappoint me !

I'd sack 50% of all council workers. This sounds harsh, but it would eliminate waste imo.

itzme

itzme wrote: »

Can you post a link to any source showing that the wage budget for councils in Ireland is €2bn.
As you are stating clearly here that axing 50% will save €1bn.

Rightwing wrote: »

Provide a link. Then we will be able to make progress.

I agree that free education is a waste, and it won't be free for much longer.

I do believe I asked you for a link first, if you would be so kind

Gumbo

Rightwing wrote: »

Provide a link. Then we will be able to make progress.

I agree that free education is a waste, and it won't be free for much longer.

Show me how to save 1bn euro from the LA's and then ill provide it.
It's your call. You went all in on a bluff, now your being called on it......

Scortho

Can savings be made: yes they can. Savings can always be made.
Can 1 bn be saved over a year I don't think so. Implementing them in that scale would be impossible. 200-300 per year over 2-3 years would be easier to do. People notice those cuts less.
For example I can hardly remember have the cuts made in the budget 3 years ago, but I'd remember the ones made in this years.

itzme

Silentcorner wrote: »

I travel a particular road on a regular basis, it is constantly being resurfaced, I'm talking 6 times a year work is being carried out on sections of this road (approx 20km stretch) this would involve 5/6 pieces of big expensive machinery, 15-20 workers for 3-4 weeks at a time...over the last 5/6 years..now I am no road expert but surely that is unnecessary, I mean the road is and always has been perfectly fine...what would it save if it was left alone for a few years...

The rest of you post couldn't agree more. It is true savings can be made but this part is ... well just giving out when you admit no knowledge on the subject.
You're assuming there is no need to resurface the road, that there are no legal obligations on the council to maintain a very specific standard for specific roads. Is it a motorway, national primary, national secondary, does it come under the councils or the NRA. If it's the NRA they contract out the work of maintenance which would make your rant even more meaningless.
Without more information the only useful piece of information in this rant is you admit you are no road expert

Merch

road_high wrote: »

They could make savings by amalgamating many councils and sharing of county managers. Is it really neccessary in Kilkenny for instance that 20 mins down the road we have a completely different office and compliment of staff doing the same thing in Carlow? Economies of scale could be achieved in this way. Imagine a private sector co operating in this manner. Different HR offices just because it's a different county. They wouldn't last 5 minutes with such extravegance. The councils should be no different.

Rightwing wrote: »

Thanks Vizzy. Could you put in a poll there and we'll get a proper reflection.

I believe councils are a complete waste of space. Grossly over staffed, and grossly overpaid. Look at these salaries:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/25497
According to the document, since January 1 this year, the annual salary of the Dublin city manager will be €189,301. The salary for the Cork county manager, the Fingal county manager, and the South Dublin county manager will be €162,062.
The managers of the Cork city council and the county managers of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Kildare, and Meath is €153,260.
The Limerick city manager receives an annual salary of €142,469, however the city managers of Galway and Waterford is €132,511.

They are doing work like digging up footpaths, messing with roads. Axe 50% of them, and you'll get your savings.

Vizzy wrote: »

Now we're making progress,
Road High,there are some amalgamations ongoing at present,North and South Tipp,Limerick City and County,Waterford City and County.
Unfortunately they will have limited savings(in the short term anyway) as people will still want/insist that they want to deal with their local council and this will be reasonable in some instances.
Also the likes of shared services(e,g, One HR office for the entire country) and central purchasing are progressing at pace.
Just to put your suggestion of combining Managers in context,if we get rid of 25 County Managers at €150,000 each,that a saving of €3M.
Only another €997 to go

All of this would be a start,
I had an issue where I had to approach the council, I was handed from one dept to the next,this was like 6 or so depts, all had some connection to the issue but none had it in their remit, eventually no one dealt with it in the end.
Overstaffed, start at the top.

Rightwing

kceire wrote: »

This is a serious forum. Why guess? Go do some research on the topic and you will see how many there are.

The average salary in councils in Ireland is 39k.

How many students get free college in this country, that's a drain. How many farmers get massive grants, that's a drain etc etc

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/web/Cork%20County%20Council/Departments/Personnel/Council%20Staff
The total number of staff currently employed by Cork County Council is approximately 2,600.

Now how many of these councils do we have? Did someone say 34 ? Gulp.

Cookie_Monster

4 regional councils and two city councils are all that's needed. Removal of the endless duplication of positions, buildings and equipment would get you most of the way there.

Vizzy

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ya a poll would be good.

I know it's not €1bn but savings could be made when it comes to wages and pensions at the top of the scale

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/leader-local/retired-limerick-city-manager-gets-310k-payoff-1-3590520

Every penny counts right...

I travel a particular road on a regular basis, it is constantly being resurfaced, I'm talking 6 times a year work is being carried out on sections of this road (approx 20km stretch) this would involve 5/6 pieces of big expensive machinery, 15-20 workers for 3-4 weeks at a time...over the last 5/6 years..now I am no road expert but surely that is unnecessary, I mean the road is and always has been perfectly fine...what would it save if it was left alone for a few years...

34 local authorities, surely savings can be found with centralised HR, purchasing etc...

Its only €30 million per local authority...

You are telling us that a 20km section of road in one local authority has been surfaced 5 or 6 times a year for the last 5 or 6 years for 3 or 4 weeks at a time.
Name and shame please.






This will be good:)

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

How many council workers are there in the country ? I'd hazard a guess at about 40,000. It can quickly be seen what a waste of money these are.

http://per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Analysis-of-Exchequer-Pay-and-Pensions-Bill-2007-20121.pdf


Table IX in the link. Local Authority numbers have been cut from 34,987 in 2008 to 29,980 in 2012, a cut of 14.3%. You are quite some distance out in your estimation of 40,000.

Now let us assume that the average salary is 40,000. The total salary bill is €1.2bn. If we fire them all there will still not be a net saving of € 1bn. The welfare payments alone would eat up 200m not to mention the income tax, PRSI, pension levy, USC etc. lost by the government.

By firing every council worker in the country you would be lucky to make €600m net savings.

Who was it that suggested €1 bn could be easily saved from the councils?

Godge

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

4 regional councils and two city councils are all that's needed. Removal of the endless duplication of positions, buildings and equipment would get you most of the way there.

Most of the way to €1bn, are you having a laugh???

Gumbo

Godge wrote: »

http://per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Analysis-of-Exchequer-Pay-and-Pensions-Bill-2007-20121.pdf


Table IX in the link. Local Authority numbers have been cut from 34,987 in 2008 to 29,980 in 2012, a cut of 14.3%. You are quite some distance out in your estimation of 40,000.

Now let us assume that the average salary is 40,000. The total salary bill is €1.2bn. If we fire them all there will still not be a net saving of € 1bn. The welfare payments alone would eat up 200m not to mention the income tax, PRSI, pension levy, USC etc. lost by the government.

By firing every council worker in the country you would be lucky to make €600m net savings.

Who was it that suggested €1 bn could be easily saved from the councils?

I have the exact figures on my work pc. Can't get them now on the phone but your figures look correct. Based on the figures released by the government in January, the average council salary is 39k.

Rightwing

Godge wrote: »

http://per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Analysis-of-Exchequer-Pay-and-Pensions-Bill-2007-20121.pdf


Table IX in the link. Local Authority numbers have been cut from 34,987 in 2008 to 29,980 in 2012, a cut of 14.3%. You are quite some distance out in your estimation of 40,000.

Now let us assume that the average salary is 40,000. The total salary bill is €1.2bn. If we fire them all there will still not be a net saving of € 1bn. The welfare payments alone would eat up 200m not to mention the income tax, PRSI, pension levy, USC etc. lost by the government.

By firing every council worker in the country you would be lucky to make €600m net savings.

Who was it that suggested €1 bn could be easily saved from the councils?

Then take out all the legal fees, all the messing they are doing with equipment, wrecking perfect roads and footpaths,delaying productive people trying to get to work, the future pensions, and €1bln will actually seem small.

No wonder the IMF are here :mad:

Vizzy

Godge wrote: »

http://per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Analysis-of-Exchequer-Pay-and-Pensions-Bill-2007-20121.pdf


Table IX in the link. Local Authority numbers have been cut from 34,987 in 2008 to 29,980 in 2012, a cut of 14.3%. You are quite some distance out in your estimation of 40,000.

Now let us assume that the average salary is 40,000. The total salary bill is €1.2bn. If we fire them all there will still not be a net saving of € 1bn. The welfare payments alone would eat up 200m not to mention the income tax, PRSI, pension levy, USC etc. lost by the government.

By firing every council worker in the country you would be lucky to make €600m net savings.

Who was it that suggested €1 bn could be easily saved from the councils?

That,and a quick wave of his magic wand and you have the €1Bn

Silentcorner

itzme wrote: »

The rest of you post couldn't agree more. It is true savings can be made but this part is ... well just giving out when you admit no knowledge on the subject.
You're assuming there is no need to resurface the road, that there are no legal obligations on the council to maintain a very specific standard for specific roads. Is it a motorway, national primary, national secondary, does it come under the councils or the NRA. If it's the NRA they contract out the work of maintenance which would make your rant even more meaningless.
Without more information the only useful piece of information in this rant is you admit you are no road expert

My "rant"...I was merely pointing out that is seemed excessive, I pointed out my ignorance of the subject specifically, repair it once, do it right, (5 years ago the road was fine, national primary road), who is responsible for spending that money? Surely someone has the cop on, after the 1st or 2nd resurfacing , that there is a chance we are not taking the right approach? A bucket load of taxpayers money is being spent on this road ( with little real difference to the road user)...and lets not kid ourselves, it wouldn't be beyond a local authority to spend it's annual budget in a meaningless fashion, or do you seriously expect us to believe different.

Gumbo

Silentcorner wrote: »

My "rant"...I was merely pointing out that is seemed excessive, I pointed out my ignorance of the subject specifically, repair it once, do it right, (5 years ago the road was fine, national primary road), who is responsible for spending that money? Surely someone has the cop on, after the 1st or 2nd resurfacing , that there is a chance we are not taking the right approach? A bucket load of taxpayers money is being spent on this road ( with little real difference to the road user)...and lets not kid ourselves, it wouldn't be beyond a local authority to spend it's annual budget in a meaningless fashion, or do you seriously expect us to believe different.

Name the road. It will be on the public record for road closure applications and possibly etender website for the resurfacing contract.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

Then take out all the legal fees, all the messing they are doing with equipment, wrecking perfect roads and footpaths,delaying productive people trying to get to work, the future pensions, and €1bln will actually seem small.

No wonder the IMF are here :mad:

I think the Mods should close this thread. It has been conclusively shown that it is impossible to cut €1 bn from councils alone, even if you fire every council worker in the country.

It is pointless debating ridiculous fantastical claims based on deluded ramblings such as these.

Merch

Vizzy wrote: »

That,and a quick wave of his magic wand and you have the €1Bn

Contract out council work to private firms

Spending on things like resurfacing unnecessarily adds up, road near me was resurfaced, good lenght of it, was not necessary, the costs aren't just in the wages of the staff, but the costs (waste) they preside over.

Unfortunately the country cant afford to pay 10's of thousands of people not including pensions so they wont be on the SW, I feel for those at the bottom, start at the top.

Rightwing

Merch wrote: »

Contract out council work to private firms

Spending on things like resurfacing unnecessarily adds up, road near me was resurfaced, good lenght of it, was not necessary, the costs aren't just in the wages of the staff, but the costs (waste) they preside over.

Unfortunately the country cant afford to pay 10's of thousands of people not including pensions so they wont be on the SW, I feel for those at the bottom, start at the top.

We can also get people from the welfare to do some council work. It's 1 of the better initiatives coming from Government at present.

Victor

Vizzy wrote: »

Is it possible to cut €1 Bn from County Council costs

While I think savings are possible, are they practical? If you cut services by one billion, will this also affect council income? Local government is slightly different from central government in that they are required to have (substantially) balanced budgets.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/LocalGovernment/Administration/FileDownLoad,23021,en.pdf

Net budgeted revenue (i.e. current) expenditure was €4.548 billion in 2011. Capital expenditure was about €2.5 billion.

I can't download the 2012 figures: http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/LocalGovernment/Administration/FileDownLoad,30964,en.pdf

2013 figures not published yet.

hfallada wrote: »

Well Dublin city council is getting rid of all services that it doesn't have an advantage over the private sector. Eg bins which lose making.

The problem there is they got rid of much of the expenditure, but all of the income, and kept most of the workers.

The loss making water will be gone soon to Irish water.

That is a slightly loaded statement. They have balanced budgets. The issue relating to water is that the majority of residential users aren't paying directly for water, but the money comes from government grants.

The council house residents could contribute more to their rent.

Potentially, but what proportion of those residents can pay a rent increase?

road_high wrote: »

They could make savings by amalgamating many councils and sharing of county managers. Is it really neccessary in Kilkenny for instance that 20 mins down the road we have a completely different office and compliment of staff doing the same thing in Carlow? Economies of scale could be achieved in this way. Imagine a private sector co operating in this manner. Different HR offices just because it's a different county. They wouldn't last 5 minutes with such extravegance. The councils should be no different.

While amalgamations will reduce staff numbers and certain costs, it won't mean a 50% reduction. Street sweepers, park gardeners and planning officials can only do a certain amount of work. It isn't like merging two office buildings, where you now only need one receptionist.

There are of course some one-off costs in amalgamating councils - someone has to merge the county development plan, bye-laws, accounting systems, etc.

Vizzy wrote: »

Also the likes of shared services(e,g, One HR office for the entire country) and central purchasing are progressing at pace.

This will only save a certain amount - you will still need one HR person for each X workers.

Just to put your suggestion of combining Managers in context,if we get rid of 25 County Managers

You then have no ability to run those organisations. Who will act as CEO? Who will carry out executive tasks like waste management (not in the control of the councillors). Who will decide on and sign managerial orders? Who will provide a counter balance to the politicians?

Potentially what you are advocating is a HSE-type organisation that had to do everything but has no focus. Organisations for the delivery of services have a maximum organisation size limit. One organisation employing tens of thousands doesn't work.

Silentcorner

Vizzy wrote: »

You are telling us that a 20km section of road in one local authority has been surfaced 5 or 6 times a year for the last 5 or 6 years for 3 or 4 weeks at a time.
Name and shame please.






This will be good:)

Go back and read again what I said....SECTIONS of a stretch of road, approx 20km in length have been worked on over the last 5/6 years, it is the Adare - Newcastlewest Rd, ask anybody who travels the road regularly...

Godge

Merch wrote: »

Contract out council work to private firms

Spending on things like resurfacing unnecessarily adds up, road near me was resurfaced, good lenght of it, was not necessary, the costs aren't just in the wages of the staff, but the costs (waste) they preside over.

Unfortunately the country cant afford to pay 10's of thousands of people not including pensions so they wont be on the SW, I feel for those at the bottom, start at the top.

contract out work? Have you even looked at e-tenders before you wrote that? There is loads of contracting taking place, how do you think they have coped with the reduction in numbers.

Merch

Rightwing wrote: »

We can also get people from the welfare to do some council work. It's 1 of the better initiatives coming from Government at present.

Id do it, for pay, Id dont get/am not entitled to SW

Godge wrote: »

contract out work? Have you even looked at e-tenders before you wrote that? There is loads of contracting taking place, how do you think they have coped with the reduction in numbers.

I thought this was a brainstorming exercise! thinking out loud, because thinking about wasteful spending doesnt seem to be on the minds of councils or govt depts.
When I say contract out work, I dont just mean the road works, I mean everything, as much as is possible.

kceire wrote: »

Name the road. It will be on the public record for road closure applications and possibly etender website for the resurfacing contract.

Where'd I find that? be interested to see what info was on the road local to me, would it include a why? and who made the decision? because it could have done with a few seperate parts dug up and re done at most, not a whole stretch of it, makes you think they were just spending the budget while they had it, instead of making savings and returning money/value to the tax payer/state.

Rightwing

Merch wrote: »

Id do it, for pay, Id dont get/am not entitled to SW



I thought this was a brainstorming exercise! thinking out loud, because thinking about wasteful spending doesnt seem to be on the minds of councils or govt depts.
When I say contract out work, I dont just mean the road works, I mean everything, as much as is possible.



Where'd I find that? be interested to see what info was on the road local to me, would it include a why? and who made the decision? because it could have done with a few seperate parts dug up and re done at most, not a whole stretch of it, makes you think they were just spending the budget while they had it, instead of making savings and returning money/value to the tax payer/state.

And judging by the quality of your posts here, you'd do a damn good job.

Why can't you get a welfare payment ?

itzme

Silentcorner wrote: »

My "rant"...I was merely pointing out that is seemed excessive, I pointed out my ignorance of the subject specifically, repair it once, do it right, (5 years ago the road was fine, national primary road), who is responsible for spending that money? Surely someone has the cop on, after the 1st or 2nd resurfacing , that there is a chance we are not taking the right approach? A bucket load of taxpayers money is being spent on this road ( with little real difference to the road user)...and lets not kid ourselves, it wouldn't be beyond a local authority to spend it's annual budget in a meaningless fashion, or do you seriously expect us to believe different.

The short of it is that you are making numerous assumptions from a position of complete ignorance instead of asking questions and looking up information.
The NRA has been taking over the maintenance of national primary roads, so even if all your wild "little real difference to the road user" assertions were true it has nothing to do with this thread as it is on county councils.

Rightwing

Silentcorner wrote: »

My "rant"...I was merely pointing out that is seemed excessive, I pointed out my ignorance of the subject specifically, repair it once, do it right, (5 years ago the road was fine, national primary road), who is responsible for spending that money? Surely someone has the cop on, after the 1st or 2nd resurfacing , that there is a chance we are not taking the right approach? A bucket load of taxpayers money is being spent on this road ( with little real difference to the road user)...and lets not kid ourselves, it wouldn't be beyond a local authority to spend it's annual budget in a meaningless fashion, or do you seriously expect us to believe different.

I've often wondered the same. Do they not know what they are doing, or just a makeshift job that will last a few months? How can a road need to be dug up a year (oe less ) after it was done? :mad:

Merch

Rightwing wrote: »

And judging by the quality of your posts here, you'd do a damn good job.

Why can't you get a welfare payment ?

Why thank you, well, i did think you were taking the mick, but Id happily work for pay, I always did when there were jobs about, can do attitude.

as for the SW, honesty was my problem there, when my living arrangements changed I informed them. I need to cop on and lose that. Having decade plus prsi, dont meant shyite.
I should have become a ward of the state.

edit, if the sate cant afford to pay people and their pensions, then they need to rationalise the services, anything over 100k, hell 80k, it wont make the savings but it will make the bitter pill other people are swallowing easier to take, start at the top.

Silentcorner

itzme wrote: »

The short of it is that you are making numerous assumptions from a position of complete ignorance and instead of asking questions and looking up information.
The NRA has been taking over the maintenance of national primary roads, so even if all you wild "little real difference to the road user" assertions were true it has nothing to do with this thread as it is on county councils.

They have been taking it over for the last 5-6 years have they...seems like a long time to be taking anything over to me...when did the takeover of this particular stretch of road take place...

Calling a road perfectly fine is hardly a wild assertion, I was merely pointing out one particular example of apparent wastage at local authority level...I may be right I may be wrong...

Post a link to the exact date of when the NRA took over this particular stretch of road, if it is less than 5/6 years ago it has everything to do with this thread.

Now, that link please

Paulzx

Rightwing wrote: »

I'd sack 50% of all council workers. This sounds harsh, but it would eliminate waste imo.

As expected you have not got a breeze how to save 1 billion from local authorities.

You are now officially embarassing yourself.

itzme

Silentcorner wrote: »

They have been taking it over for the last 5-6 years have they...seems like a long time to be taking anything over to me...when did the takeover of this particular stretch of road take place...

Calling a road perfectly fine is hardly a wild assertion, I was merely pointing out one particular example of apparent wastage at local authority level...I may be right I may be wrong...

Post a link to the exact date of when the NRA took over this particular stretch of road, if it is less than 5/6 years ago it has everything to do with this thread.

Now, that link please

Here you go, according to the NRA its been since at least August 2007.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070826060025/http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/Maintenance/

Merch

Paulzx wrote: »

As expected you have not got a breeze how to save 1 billion from local authorities.

You are now officially embarassing yourself.

well, certainly waste needs to be eliminated, see who is capable and trained for what jobs, re-interview existing staff for positions.
I saw a programme about a council in the UK doing that, they were cutting costs, re-interviewing staff for exisitng posdition as there were less positions and losing the dead wood of course, so long as it is the dead wood that is lost.

The waste in councils needs to be eliminated, regardless of whether it will save 1bn or not,
whats your answer?
It wont work, don't try.

Farmer Pudsey

There is certainly scope to make savings on LA. Take the Fire services there are a load of Chief Fire officers and assistant Chief officers. The amount of LA is being reduced and it is possible that they could be reduced further. it is highly unlikly that 1 billion could be saved but a figure os several hundred million could be achievable.

Less councils should mean less admin/Hr staff. Less Co Councillers, less co managers less Chief Fire Officers and there assistant's.

itzme

Merch wrote: »

well, certainly waste needs to be eliminated, see who is capable and trained for what jobs, re-interview existing staff for positions.
I saw a programme about a council in the UK doing that, they were cutting costs, re-interviewing staff for exisitng posdition as there were less positions and losing the dead wood of course, so long as it is the dead wood that is lost.

The waste in councils needs to be eliminated, regardless of whether it will save 1bn or not,
whats your answer?
It wont work, don't try.

Everything you have said there is valid and also constructive ideas on how to reduce waste while at the same time focusing on providing a better service for the people. I'd agree with all you have written above.

However, rightwing has been asked to back up audacious claims that it is possible to save €1bn from cuts to local government without affecting services. Clearly he/she hasn't done this and is actively avoiding providing any detail. Hence the frustrated post you are quoting.

Boom__Boom

There is massive massive potential for savings in the county council infrastructure.

My favourite story related to a county council was a friend of mine who got a summer job in the county council head offices while in university.

Started the job on a Monday morning at 9:30.
Was given a task to complete.
Finished the job before going for lunch.
Told the person who gave her the job that she was done....only to be told that there was nothing for her to do for the rest of the week as the task she had been allocated was supposed to have taken her the week.

Have a cousin who quit his job in the council offices after a year because he was bored out of his head with nothing to do.

In terms of the services the county councils provide and the money spent on them I think that out of all of the public sector they have to be very close to being the worst in terms of value for money, especially when you take into account the amount of duplication of tasks across the 29 different county councils.

Silentcorner

itzme wrote: »

Here you go, according to the NRA its been since at least August 2007.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070826060025/http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/Maintenance/

Checkmate...it doesn't mean it is not a waste of money. It does remove itself from this argument.

itzme

Silentcorner wrote: »

Checkmate...it doesn't mean it is not a waste of money. It does remove itself from this argument.

Agree on both counts it does remove it from this thread and it doesn't mean that it is not a waste of money.

However, you saying it's a waste doesn't mean it is either. I'm much happier having regular annual checks on a road using international standard metrics judging the condition of the road and it's surface and basing maintenance on this then on your view that the road is "perfectly fine" http://nra.ie/NetworkManagement/Maintenance/PavementMonitoringandMaintenance/

Barracuda1

Merge all the county councils into regions i.e midlands/north east/north west/south east/south west/west/south/Dublin .