What is it with Mickey Harte?

April O Neill

Happyman42 wrote: »

Because it's a person, it's call mitigation.

I don't consider a person coming from a stable background a mitigating circumstance, call me crazy.

As for thinking a reference will lessen a sentence, hopefully not. If that's not the purpose of it, then why ask for them at all?

stanley 2

Electric Sheep wrote: »

The Gospel says defend drunks who sexually and physically assault other people? Could you give us chapter and verse?

the Gospel says set prisoners free

Ash.J.Williams

stanley 2 wrote: »

any man or woman who reads the Gospel and trys to put in to affect the world will hate

I'm not a grammar Nazi, but your statement would make more sense with a comma or two!

Rasheed

April O Neill wrote: »

Why? If a person is judged to have committed an offence, they should be sentenced accordingly. And I've never understood the "He comes from a good family and is a good person" type reference. Surely that makes the crime worse? That he/she came from a stable upbringing and still committed the crime they did? No asummption of conspiracy here, whatever you mean by that.

So by that logic, if you come from an unstable upbringing and commit a crime, the blame is lessened?

stanley 2

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I'm not a grammar Nazi, but your statement would make more sense with a comma or two!

yes but then you would not have read it twice

seamus

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I'm not a grammar Nazi, but your statement would make more sense with a comma or two!

It's a haiku, or something


any man or woman who, reads the Gospel and trys to put in;
to affect, the world will hate

sfwcork

Another point

When Mickey was asked for areference he surely looked at both cases

thus he looked at a sexual assault case and a murder case and deemed that the criminals deserved a lesser sentence..surely thats the point of a reference No? Its not just because he fancies a day out and a few brews on o connell street

Mickey is not under any legal requirement to give this reference.He has been asked to do so,studied the case and acted so

April O Neill

Rasheed wrote: »

So by that logic, if you come from an unstable upbringing and commit a crime, the blame is lessened?

No, the sentence should be the same in any case. Though in some cases, upbringing undoubtedly is a factor in a crime. To be topical, the boys who murdered James Bolger. Their backgrounds were horrendous and could not be ignored.

I'm simply pointing out that someone from a more stable background had every chance and still committed a horrible crime, so i don't know how pointing out their upbringing is supposed to be a good thing.

Electric Sheep

stanley 2 wrote: »

the Gospel says set prisoners free

Only the drunks who assault people? Or all mass murderers, child rapist, all prisoners including the ones who may choose to assault your elderly parents in their own home?

Happyman42

April O Neill wrote: »

I don't consider a person coming from a stable background a mitigating circumstance, call me crazy.

I consider somebody showing guilt by pleading guilty a mitigating factor, and if that person shows remorse and the fact that they realise that they have to change, that would also be a mitigating factor. (which may or may not be what MH believes) I could also see how the help and support of a stable family could help in his rehabilitation and that would also be a mitigating factor. Call me human.

As for thinking a reference will lessen a sentence, hopefully not. If that's not the purpose of it, then why ask for them at all?

The judge will consider sentence when he/she gets a picture of who he'/she is sentencing. That's why a judge gets to pick the sentence, otherwise there would be no need for a 'judge'.

mikom

stanley 2 wrote: »

the Gospel says set prisoners free

The Gospel says a lot of thing.......

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

The book of Deuteronomy

stanley 2

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Only the drunks who assault people? Or all mass murderers, child rapist, all prisoners including the ones who may choose to assault your elderly parents in their own home?

thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner

Ash.J.Williams

stanley 2 wrote: »

thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner

He's not a prisoner yet

Grand Moff Tarkin

stanley 2 wrote: »

the Gospel says set prisoners free

Jewish fairy tales have no place in a modern court of law.

Electric Sheep

stanley 2 wrote: »

thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner

No, I have not. I believe in just retribution from the law of the land.

Ash.J.Williams

stanley 2 wrote: »

thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner

Helping a prisoner is an entirely different situation, the prisoner has been sentenced and people can help straighten them out....but sticking your oar in to influence the result of a case is not the same!

stanley 2

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Helping a prisoner is an entirely different situation, the prisoner has been sentenced and people can help straighten them out....but sticking your oar in to influence the result of a case is not the same!

question are there some prisoners who should be helped and some who should not

old hippy

Rasheed wrote: »

What elements? You've proof I'm sure.

Unfortunately, I'd rather not be done for slander/libel etc.

Let me rephrase it. The GAA community are a shining light of decency, common sense and beyond any criticism whatsoever. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a troublemaker, a fiend and possible deviant.

c_man

As someone who really admires his work in relation to football, all this recent stuff coming from him makes me uneasy and tbh he's bringing all this crap on himself.

Rasheed

old hippy wrote: »

Unfortunately, I'd rather not be done for slander/libel etc.

Let me rephrase it. The GAA community are a shining light of decency, common sense and beyond any criticism whatsoever. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a troublemaker, a fiend and possible deviant.

If you had proof, you wouldn't be done for slander.

There's no doubt that elements within the GAA community are self serving.

That was your original quote. There is 'no doubt' apparently. So show me the proof of these elements are self serving.

I like the GAA, I'm fairly involved but am under no illusion that it's perfect. Criticise it all you want, only if its fair criticism though.

checkyabadself

I don`t really care for Mr. Harte. I`ve nothing personal against him, but I cant help but wonder about how he is perceived in Irish society.

When his daughter was tragically murdered I was shocked at how RTE in particular told the story in the vein of, " The daughter of GAA manager Micky Harte has been killed", as opposed to " An Irish woman, Mickaela MacAreevy honeymooning in the Maldives has been killed."

She happened to be his daughter yet the media portrayed her as a daughter of a hero rather than first and foremost a woman or a wife, but no, the media flocked around Micky Harte for soundbites and weren`t too concerned with the husband being the most affected.

The comments around the GAA being a great community have always irked me. It`s a great community as long as you`re part of it or support their games but to tell someone who is talking about it that you`re not really a fan they are almost instantly "wise to you", "sure he`s probably a rugby snob". Obviously I`m not tarring all GAA fans with the same brush but the minute I tell people that "No, sorry I didn`t watch the match, I`m not a fan really to be honest" the common reaction is a look of "what kind of a wierdo doesn`t watch the All Ireland".

It`s also true that Catholicism, Gaa and rural people are three things that are fiercely interlinked in this country. It`s not a gross exaggeration to claim that there is a certain tribal feel to the community ethos that pervades that comunnity that can be a little intimidating to those who don`t follow that lifestyle.

The GAA are a reasonable well run organisation that provide a great sense of joy and togetherness as long as it`s on their terms. When was the last time you saw a collection outside a church for a kids rugby team, or an atheist GAA manager.

Grand Moff Tarkin

checkyabadself wrote: »

I don`t really care for Mr. Harte. I`ve nothing personal against him, but I cant help but wonder about how he is perceived in Irish society.

When his daughter was tragically murdered I was shocked at how RTE in particular told the story in the vein of, " The daughter of GAA manager Micky Harte has been killed", as opposed to " An Irish woman, Mickaela MacAreevy honeymooning in the Maldives has been killed."

She happened to be his daughter yet the media portrayed her as a daughter of a hero rather than first and foremost a woman or a wife, but no, the media flocked around Micky Harte for soundbites and weren`t too concerned with the husband being the most affected.

The comments around the GAA being a great community have always irked me. It`s a great community as long as you`re part of it or support their games but to tell someone who is talking about it that you`re not really a fan they are almost instantly "wise to you", "sure he`s probably a rugby snob". Obviously I`m not tarring all GAA fans with the same brush but the minute I tell people that "No, sorry I didn`t watch the match, I`m not a fan really to be honest" the common reaction is a look of "what kind of a wierdo doesn`t watch the All Ireland".

It`s also true that Catholicism, Gaa and rural people are three things that are fiercely interlinked in this country. It`s not a gross exaggeration to claim that there is a certain tribal feel to the community ethos that pervades that comunnity that can be a little intimidating to those who don`t follow that lifestyle.

The GAA are a reasonable well run organisation that provide a great sense of joy and togetherness as long as it`s on their terms. When was the last time you saw a collection outside a church for a kids rugby team, or an atheist GAA manager.

There are still a few GAA clubs up and down the country who go out of the way to make sure that their own club training clashes with the training times of other sports.

Electric Sheep

Rasheed wrote: »

If you had proof, you wouldn't be done for slander.



That was your original quote. There is 'no doubt' apparently. So show me the proof of these elements are self serving.

I like the GAA, I'm fairly involved but am under no illusion that it's perfect. Criticise it all you want, only if its fair criticism though.

Harte providing this character reference is proof to me of the self serving element of the GAA.

HondaSami

If Micky Harte says it's ok then it must be ok. I wonder how he feels about the murder of Det Adrian Donohue,it has been said one of those responsible comes from a respected GAA family in the north.

mocata

Driving after 30 units of alcohol while already disqualified doesnt suggest a one-off out of character incident.

Rasheed

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Harte providing this character reference is proof to me of the self serving element of the GAA.

What has the actions of one man (Harte) got to do with the rest of the GAA?

If I made a sweeping generalisation about any other organisation or community like the generalisations here, I'd be ate alive and then banned.

Electric Sheep

Rasheed wrote: »

What has the actions of one man (Harte) got to do with the rest of the GAA?

If I made a sweeping generalisation about any other organisation or community like the generalisations here, I'd be ate alive and then banned.

His behaviour is indicative of the mindset. I am sure his daughter would be very proud.

Rasheed

Electric Sheep wrote: »

His behaviour is indicative of the mindset. I am sure his daughter would be very proud.

One man's behaviour is indicative of the mindset of over a million people?

Happyman42

Electric Sheep wrote: »

His behaviour is indicative of the mindset. I am sure his daughter would be very proud.

Absurd. And not in touch with reality.

yosser hughes

Rasheed wrote: »

One man's behaviour is indicative of the mindset of over a million people?

Who are the million people? Are there a million members of the G.A.A.? I didn't know that, if indeed there are that many members.

ardmacha

Harte provided information on what he knew about this person. This is not support for his actions, at most it is a statement that he wasn't all bad. It is business of the Judge to process the value of such comments, not for Harte to act as judge and jury and refuse a reference. The defendant pleaded guilty, which has probably spared the victim some additional trauma in court, who is to say that Harte did not have a role in convincing him to do this?

HondaSami

ardmacha wrote: »

Harte provided information on what he knew about this person. This is not support for his actions, at most it is a statement that he wasn't all bad. It is business of the Judge to process the value of such comments, not for Harte to act as judge and jury and refuse a reference. The defendant pleaded guilty, which has probably spared the victim some additional trauma in court, who is to say that Harte did not have a role in convincing him to do this?

Giving a reference for someone accused of any sexual offence is not right imo
Why did he need such a reference?

Rasheed

yosser hughes wrote: »

Who are the million people? Are there a million members of the G.A.A.? I didn't know that, if indeed there are that many members.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_Athletic_Association

Electric Sheep

ardmacha wrote: »

Harte provided information on what he knew about this person. This is not support for his actions, at most it is a statement that he wasn't all bad. It is business of the Judge to process the value of such comments, not for Harte to act as judge and jury and refuse a reference. The defendant pleaded guilty, which has probably spared the victim some additional trauma in court, who is to say that Harte did not have a role in convincing him to do this?

Are you suggesting that Harte did have a role? Or are you just kite flying?

ardmacha

Giving a reference for someone accused of any sexual offence is not right imo

It is no different than any witness in court. You are not the judge and it not your place to pronounce the person guilty.

Are you suggesting that Harte did have a role? Or are you just kite flying?

I have no idea. However, it is notable that the accused pleaded guilty, perhaps he received advice from someone.

Benny_Cake

ardmacha wrote: »

Harte provided information on what he knew about this person. This is not support for his actions, at most it is a statement that he wasn't all bad. It is business of the Judge to process the value of such comments, not for Harte to act as judge and jury and refuse a reference. The defendant pleaded guilty, which has probably spared the victim some additional trauma in court, who is to say that Harte did not have a role in convincing him to do this?

This.

A person is allowed to provide a character reference if they wish, and it is entirely up to the judge how much credibility to apply to that. Now personally, I'd bin it, but it's still something that the justice system allows and as others have pointed out the perpetrator pleaded guilty and Harte may have been instrumental in persuading him to do this. We'll never know.

I suspect that much of the hate directed at Mickey Harte is actually for three reasons - his GAA involvement, his support for Sean Quinn, and the fact that he's a Catholic (and a conservative one at that). I have no feeling one way or another about the GAA, not even watching the All-Ireland final when it comes around. His support for Sean Quinn is plain wrong, and his religious and social views are antediluvian, particularly his opposition to contraception. It's amazing that people who consider themselves liberal and tolerant see red when it comes to people whose views differ from their own.

Peanut2011

Ah, we will see Mickey Harte run for a Dail seat very soon. He is just using all these cases to build up his public profile.

brandon_flowers

He'll be the greatest Republican hero of all time if he manages to run for a Dail seat in Tyrone!

fasttalkerchat

Its an important part of the legal system that a defendant who is pleading guilty is allowed to give evidence to back up his assertions that his crime was out of character. This is what is happening here. I'd imagine Mickey took into account the fact that he's owning up to what happened.

ProudDUB

I think this is pretty sickening imo.

A family member of mine suffered a similar assault over 20 years ago, only no alcohol was involved. The courts were bombarded with " ah sure he's a grand lad, wouldn't hurt a fly, he comes from a good family, plays GAA, his parents are pillars of the local community etc etc character reference crap, that MH is now peddling on this other a$$holes behalf.

Our a$$hole got off with a 12 month suspended sentence, and got on with his life. Twenty years on, my relation is still dealing with the life of poverty she has had to live ever since. She has never able to hold down a job for long, due to the crippling headaches she still gets from being hit over the head with a brick in the back of a van when she was 19.

Let's all feel sorry for the poor wee lad who lost the run of himself. What about the victims in these kinds of cases? What a bloody maddening country this is to be sure ! :mad::mad::mad:

darced

This post has been deleted.

Happyman42

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This was in Tyrone...'GAA always have close links with the RUC' ...yeh, right!

Could you show me one instance(North or South) where somebody who pleaded guilty walked free because of a character ref. from a GAA member?

Your post is just Livelinesque/Daily Mail hysteria if you can't.

padd b1975

checkyabadself wrote: »

I don`t really care for Mr. Harte. I`ve nothing personal against him, but I cant
help but wonder about how he is perceived in Irish society.

Mickey Harte has every right to live his life however he sees fit.
If you have a problem with how he is percieved in Irish society, I would suggest you direct your opinions towards Irish society and not Mickey Harte.

checkyabadself wrote: »

the media flocked around Micky Harte for soundbites and weren`t too concerned
with the husband being the most affected.

I think he was very brave to speak out on behalf of his family and son in law so soon after his daughter was murdered.

Of course the media was going to pounce on this story, the wife of an inter county footballer and daughter of a multiple AI winning manager is murdered on honeymoon.

Like it or not, it was a massive news story at the time.

FYI, a large proportion of his media comments consisted of pleadings to the media for space for his son in law.

checkyabadself wrote: »

The comments around the GAA being a great community have always irked me. It`s a
great community as long as you`re part of it or support their games but to tell
someone who is talking about it that you`re not really a fan they are almost
instantly "wise to you", "sure he`s probably a rugby snob". Obviously I 'm not
tarring all GAA fans with the same brush but the minute I tell people that "No,
sorry I didn`t watch the match, I`m not a fan really to be honest" the common
reaction is a look of "what kind of a wierdo doesn`t watch the All Ireland".

Could have fooled me.

checkyabadself wrote: »

The GAA are a reasonable well run organisation that provide a great sense of joy
and togetherness as long as it`s on their terms

Could you tell me more about these terms please?

checkyabadself wrote: »

When was the last time you saw a collection outside a church for a kids rugby team, or an atheist GAA manager.

I see collections for other sports all the time.
Atheist GAA manager?? Can't think of one off the top of my head, but I would be fairly certain there are lots.

Jack Boothman, former president of the association and one of its most conservative leaders was Church of Ireland.

c_man

Happyman42 wrote: »

This was in Tyrone...'GAA always have close links with the RUC' ...yeh, right!

Ah c'mon, no facts please!

darced

This post has been deleted.

c_man

checkyabadself wrote: »

The comments around the GAA being a great community have always irked me. It`s a great community as long as you`re part of it

So it's not a great community, if you're not part of the community... Right.

Happyman42

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I know a girl, who knows the great uncle twice removed of another girls cousin who swallowed a lizards egg on holidays and never went to the doctors and the lizard grew inside her and ate her from the inside out over 4 and half weeks. That may or may not be an urban myth, I'm not sure, but please accept it as fact, because this is the interweb.





* I'm not sure if it was beyond a joke for the lizard or the girl though. But it was for one of them.

flanzer

Word has it that he's on his way to South Africa to do a character reference for Oscar Pistorius

Halloween Jack

flanzer wrote: »

Word has it that he's on his way to South Africa to do a character reference for Oscar Pistorius

Hope it's better than the one he did for fritzl...

darced

This post has been deleted.