Water purity testing in Waterford?

changeling

These findings have been debunked before, and the topic considered a conspiracy theory by most. Whether it is necessary is debateable, but it is not considered a health risk by mainstream scientists. Ask yourself why this pops up on websites such as "worldtruth" or "fluoride alert".

How do you propose to remove the fluoride naturally occurring in the water supply given that if what you propose is correct it would have the same negative effects and toxicity? If you do not recognise that concentration is important, then you are going to suffer the toxic effects anyways from the fluoride already present.[/QUOTE]


Link please to where they have been debunked, also if it occurring naturally, why add it??
And are you really saying that all the other countries in Europe who have rejected flouridation are wrong??

It is not up to us to prove its toxicity but up to the government to revisit this issue and convince me and others of their reasons to continue, there are a growing number of the Irish population who wish to exercise our freedom of choice and reject this policy.

kayaksurfbum

http://youtu.be/OcHNYenN7OY

jh79

The point with it occurring naturally is that the concentration is too low to illicit a medical effect, the addition of Fluoride improves dental health but with no adverse effects. If you cannot show toxicity at the Irish levels why is it a concern.

Scientific advisors to the government could not find any reason to cease flouridation based on current evidence as recently as 2011, no new evidence has come to light since so why the need to revisit it?

Other Euro countries bowed to public pressure which has no bearing on whether it is an health concern

changeling

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

http://youtu.be/OcHNYenN7OY

Yes indeed now I'm happy with flouridation of my water supply thanks for that...

Bogsnorkler

I think anyone who is somewhat informed about water treatment and distribution would see disinfection byproducts (DBPs) or the growing potential of traces of consumer pharma compounds in drinking water as bigger threats to public health.


Topic du jour of the anti-science conspiracy theory brigade.

jackfrostwins

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

I think anyone who is somewhat informed about water treatment and distribution would see disinfection byproducts (DBPs) or the growing potential of traces of consumer pharma compounds in drinking water as bigger threats to public health.


Topic du jour of the anti-science conspiracy theory brigade.

Why do you think the vast majority of the world do not add this stuff to their water?

spankmemunkey

jh79 wrote: »

changeling wrote: »

Flouride may be at low levels in our water supply but the concern lies in the fact that it builds up in our soft tissue and bones to a toxic level. Some people can tolerate it more than others, but these (eventual) levels of toxicity lead to all sorts of health issues for individuals.

changeling wrote: »

The hydroflourisillic acid (flouride) added to our water supply is a by product of the fertiliser manufacturing industry , it is basically convenient for our water authorities to add it to our water, really doesnt cost them as much as it would to clean up the environment if these places were to dispose of it themselves.

The point is , if I and others do not want it in our water supply, it is not up to us to prove why we dont want to ingest this poison.
The reverse osmosis filters DO NOT remove good minerals from the water, but why should I have to fork out 300 -400 euro to remove something that is absolutely no benefit and is proven by endless peer reviewed scientific studies to harm people over long periods of ingestion?
http://worldtruth.tv/the-poison-in-your-water-is-fluoride/

http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/fluoride.htm [/QUOTE]


These findings have been debunked before, and the topic considered a conspiracy theory by most. Whether it is necessary is debateable, but it is not considered a health risk by mainstream scientists. Ask yourself why this pops up on websites such as "worldtruth" or "fluoride alert".

How do you propose to remove the fluoride naturally occurring in the water supply given that if what you propose is correct it would have the same negative effects and toxicity? If you do not recognise that concentration is important, then you are going to suffer the toxic effects anyways from the fluoride already present.

Theres a huge difference between naturally occuring Fluoride and ADDING FLUORIDE! Why is there a law in europe that says any products made with fluoridated water may not be sold in Europe?

spankmemunkey

jackfrostwins wrote: »

Why do you think the vast majority of the world do not add this stuff to their water?

Thank god the Cavalry!:D

spankmemunkey

jh79 wrote: »

Link please to where they have been debunked, also if it occurring naturally, why add it??
And are you really saying that all the other countries in Europe who have rejected flouridation are wrong??

It is not up to us to prove its toxicity but up to the government to revisit this issue and convince me and others of their reasons to continue, there are a growing number of the Irish population who wish to exercise our freedom of choice and reject this policy.

The point with it occurring naturally is that the concentration is too low to illicit a medical effect, the addition of Fluoride improves dental health but with no adverse effects. If you cannot show toxicity at the Irish levels why is it a concern.

Scientific advisors to the government could not find any reason to cease flouridation based on current evidence as recently as 2011, no new evidence has come to light since so why the need to revisit it?

Other Euro countries bowed to public pressure which has no bearing on whether it is an health concern[/QUOTE]

What about the report issued by the scientist Declan Waugh its on ENVIRON.IE thats no new evidence to say otherwise?

What about Cancer levels in South Ireland compared to the North? thats not enough evidence, The anti fluoride group put things on their site about this of course, what do yo expect them to put up on their site a recipe for soup? they have collected the data and posted it on their site.

NOBDOY HAS GIVEN A DECENT ANSWERE YET TO WHY ITS BANNED IN THE REST OF EUROPE?

Its about choice, i choose not to have this in my water oh wait i dont have that choice for water i will be soon paying for! i can tell you one thing i will be telling the powers that be if theres fluoride in my water no matter at what traces i wont be paying for something i dont use!

jackfrostwins

NOBDOY HAS GIVEN A DECENT ANSWERE YET TO WHY ITS BANNED IN THE REST OF EUROPE?

Its about choice, i choose not to have this in my water oh wait i dont have that choice for water i will be soon paying for! i can tell you one thing i will be telling the powers that be if theres fluoride in my water no matter at what traces i wont be paying for something i dont use![/QUOTE]
Indeed.Save all your receipts for bottled water and when they come looking for cash you can hand them over.

changeling

ahhhh there seems to be some mix up of quotes and posts , I want flouridation banned !!!

jackfrostwins

My mistake. There is no way anyone who does not want industrial waste in there water should have to pay for it. Save your bottled water receipts and demand a refund instead of paying the water charge when the time comes. If people don't want to brush their teeth that's their problem.

Tragamin2k2

wait, are there people here standing up for fluoride?

Cabaal

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Do you think that the governments priority in a recession is to add fluoride to peoples water? its not neccisary any more we have tooth paste these days its not needed the same way it was 50 years ago!

Ok, I'm really confused.

If its so bad why are you sighting that there's no need for it in water because you get it from toothpaste?

Surely if its so bad you'd want it removed from toothpaste as well?

Its about choice, i choose not to have this in my water oh wait i dont have that choice for water i will be soon paying for! i can tell you one thing i will be telling the powers that be if theres fluoride in my water no matter at what traces i wont be paying for something i dont use!

Ok so now you even have an issue with amount of it that occurs in the water naturally?

So now nature is against you? bad nature, bad! :P

Also, you don't use the water?
Must cost you a fortune to wash in the morning with all that bottled water, after all you don't use the water from the tap :pac:

changeling

jh79 you have misquoted me above please fix it , you have made it appear in a post that I support flouridation

Thank you

post #64

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Theres a huge difference between naturally occuring Fluoride and ADDING FLUORIDE! Why is there a law in europe that says any products made with fluoridated water may not be sold in Europe?

What is the difference?

stefan idiot jones

I consider myself a smart enough guy, but I haven't got a clue what to think. The more I read, the more confused I get.
Can we start again ?

ronaneire

changeling wrote: »

Flouride may be at low levels in our water supply but the concern lies in the fact that it builds up in our soft tissue and bones to a toxic level. Some people can tolerate it more than others, but these (eventual) levels of toxicity lead to all sorts of health issues for individuals.

The hydroflourisillic acid (flouride) added to our water supply is a by product of the fertiliser manufacturing industry , it is basically convenient for our water authorities to add it to our water, really doesnt cost them as much as it would to clean up the environment if these places were to dispose of it themselves.

The point is , if I and others do not want it in our water supply, it is not up to us to prove why we dont want to ingest this poison.
The reverse osmosis filters DO NOT remove good minerals from the water, but why should I have to fork out 300 -400 euro to remove something that is absolutely no benefit and is proven by endless peer reviewed scientific studies to harm people over long periods of ingestion?
http://worldtruth.tv/the-poison-in-your-water-is-fluoride/

http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/fluoride.htm

Where are you getting your information from?

spankmemunkey

Cabaal wrote: »

Ok, I'm really confused.

If its so bad why are you sighting that there's no need for it in water because you get it from toothpaste?

Surely if its so bad you'd want it removed from toothpaste as well?




Ok so now you even have an issue with amount of it that occurs in the water naturally?

So now nature is against you? bad nature, bad! :P

Also, you don't use the water?
Must cost you a fortune to wash in the morning with all that bottled water, after all you don't use the water from the tap :pac:

IF its naturally occuring then thats fair enough what can we do thats another battle we must fight, but ADDING it isnt sane its not allowed in europe nor is food thats made with fluridated water allowed be sold there was a court ruling banning it WHY?

Its about Choice, If the government say its in the water for teeth i will say if people want to use fluoride in their Teeth health then they can buy tooth paste and mouth wash with Fluoride in it they are given the choice where as im not given the choice when its put in my water, You can buy tooth paste without fluoride in it.

spankmemunkey

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

I consider myself a smart enough guy, but I haven't got a clue what to think. The more I read, the more confused I get.
Can we start again ?

Why is it banned in the rest of Europe on health and ethical grounds and oh yeah environmental concerns! I posted a string of links earlier in the thread have a look at the list of european countries that banned it and why!

For the people in favour of fluoride-

STILL I HAVENT GOT AN ANSWERE TO WHY THE REST OF EUROPE BANNED IT?

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

IF its naturally occuring then thats fair enough what can we do thats another battle we must fight, but ADDING it isnt sane its not allowed in europe nor is food thats made with fluridated water allowed be sold there was a court ruling banning it WHY?

Its about Choice, If the government say its in the water for teeth i will say if people want to use fluoride in their Teeth health then they can buy tooth paste and mouth wash with Fluoride in it they are given the choice where as im not given the choice when its put in my water, You can buy tooth paste without fluoride in it.

I agree it is about choice but the evidence isn't there to support that it is a health risk. But why mislead people with scientific papers that only report toxicity at levels way higher than present in our water. If fluoride is as toxic as you think your screwed either way form the natural levels.

What about chlorine? It is a halogen too, used as a chemical weapon in WW2, but is added to the water supply and swimming pools to kill bacteria? Why is fluoride such a fad?

spankmemunkey

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

wait, are there people here standing up for fluoride?

Yes there are unfortunately!

Its banned everywhere else sept here,

Nobodys come up with a decent arguement as to why its banned everywhere else in europe except Ireland

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Why is it banned in the rest of Europe on health and ethical grounds and oh yeah environmental concerns! I posted a string of links earlier in the thread have a look at the list of european countries that banned it and why!

For the people in favour of fluoride-

STILL I HAVENT GOT AN ANSWERE TO WHY THE REST OF EUROPE BANNED IT?

Banned is the wrong word, public opinion not scientific caused them to cease adding it to the supply, but afaik it is available as a supplement.

Fluoride toothpaste wasn't banned was it?

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Yes there are unfortunately!

Its banned everywhere else sept here,

Nobodys come up with a decent arguement as to why its banned everywhere else in europe except Ireland

It is in toothpaste! If it was banned they would have to stop selling fluoride toothpaste!

Cabaal

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Yes there are unfortunately!

Its banned everywhere else sept here,

Nobodys come up with a decent arguement as to why its banned everywhere else in europe except Ireland

In fairness you are completely misrepresenting the situation, banned is the wrong word.

Its just not used, but it still occurs naturally and it still is used in the likes of the uk in certain area's. But again it occurs naturally anyway.

If it was banned and seen as toxic like you suggest then the governments would remove even naturally occuring levels from the water supply, they don't do this! Oh and of course lets not forget its in toothpaste throughout the EU...if it was banned like you claim this would not be the case.

High amounts of anything can kill you.

For example high amounts of dihydrogen monoxide can kill you if you take it into your body,

Infact, dihydrogen monoxide kills thousands upon thousands of people each year, causes of which are

- High levels of it can kill you
- It can cause third degree burns
- It can react violently with other chemicals
- Causes explosive gases
- Its used with other extremely dangerous chemicals and even nuclear material which in the past has caused people to become sick and to get cancer.

These are all known facts!

Given we have actual proper facts and figures for these deaths and injury's which far out way the claimed dangers of fluoride then I think its only reasonable we ban dihydrogen monoxide.

Even if what you claim about fluoride is 100% true, dihydrogen monoxide is still far far more dangerous to people and kills and hospitalises thousands more people. The worst thing of all is its odorless so its hard for people to identify it.

Should we ban it?

More info on http://www.dhmo.org/

Hoffmans

a pea sized piece of toothpaste has the same flouride as 1500 litres of water
should'nt they be attacking it first...:pac::)

changeling

If any of you reading this thread are unsure about whether the flouridation of our water supply is good for your health please take the time to read the following:


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fluoride-in-our-water-are-we-brushing-with-danger-26123011.html

And jh79 where is the link to show where any of the studies showing it to have adverse health effects were ''debunked'' ? This is not the case AT ALL.

The ONLY reason the government and Department of Health are continuing with this mass medication against a growing number of Irish people's wishes is because it is afraid of the massive fallout it will have to deal with by admitting it was harmful to us all along.
What does it take for people to realise our government does not give a s*** for us and is only concerned about mass claims that may arise from years of POISONING the Irish population

We have a choice whether we want to buy flouridated toothpaste , we don't have any choice if it is added to our water.

Do any of you who are still in doubt seriously think all of the following governments are wrong?

http://www.fluoridation.com/c-country.htm

jh79

changeling wrote: »

If any of you reading this thread are unsure about whether the flouridation of our water supply is good for your health please take the time to read the following:


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fluoride-in-our-water-are-we-brushing-with-danger-26123011.html

And jh79 where is the link to show where any of the studies showing it to have adverse health effects were ''debunked'' ? This is not the case AT ALL.

The ONLY reason the government and Department of Health are continuing with this mass medication against a growing number of Irish people's wishes is because it is afraid of the massive fallout it will have to deal with by admitting it was harmful to us all along.
What does it take for people to realise our government does not give a s*** for us and is only concerned about mass claims that may arise from years of POISONING the Irish population

We have a choice whether we want to buy flouridated toothpaste , we don't have any choice if it is added to our water.

Do any of you who are still in doubt seriously think all of the following governments are wrong?

http://www.fluoridation.com/c-country.htm

No direct evidence at all, comparing disease rates between countries than fluoridate and those that don't doesn't provide strong evidence of a health risk.

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/fluoride.cfm

http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/drinking/fluoride_index.cfm

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/12/02/anti-fluoridation-crankery-how-1960s/

Why the fuss over fluoride but not chlorine, very similar chemicals? The final link explains it pretty well.

changeling

jh79 wrote: »

No direct evidence at all, comparing disease rates between countries than fluoridate and those that don't doesn't provide strong evidence of a health risk.

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/fluoride.cfm

http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/drinking/fluoride_index.cfm

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/12/02/anti-fluoridation-crankery-how-1960s/

Why the fuss over fluoride but not chlorine, very similar chemicals? The final link explains it pretty well.

The first two links are American government EPA websites hardly independent unbiased information !!!:(

The last link is a personal viewpoint from somebody who just paints the whole anti flouride movement as 'cranks' nothing debunked there!

And when he makes a statement like this one -
''Make no mistake, naturopathy is a hodge-podge of quackery that includes homeopathy, reiki, traditional Chinese medicine and various detoxification woo, while many chiropractic practices are also highly dubious''-
his sole OPINION being that all of the above is just quackery makes this blog one to ignore.

Those links are in no way an argument for flouridation.
Comparing disease rates between countries who do flouridate and those who don't is a good place to start.

The fact that there is any question at all about how safe this practice is should be enough for any right thinking person to demand it is stopped.

jh79

changeling wrote: »

The first two links are American government EPA websites hardly independent unbiased information !!!:(

The last link is a personal viewpoint from somebody who just paints the whole anti flouride movement as 'cranks' nothing debunked there!

And when he makes a statement like this one -
''Make no mistake, naturopathy is a hodge-podge of quackery that includes homeopathy, reiki, traditional Chinese medicine and various detoxification woo, while many chiropractic practices are also highly dubious''-
his sole OPINION being that all of the above is just quackery makes this blog one to ignore.

Those links are in no way an argument for flouridation.
Comparing disease rates between countries who do flouridate and those who don't is a good place to start.

The fact that there is any question at all about how safe this practice is should be enough for any right thinking person to demand it is stopped.

Believing in any of these ruins your credibility. Honestly you are ok with the idea that water has "memory" and the more you dilute something the more potent it gets, test that theory out with some whiskey! Or that waving your hands around a la reiki has any effect! And the only thing that can detox you are your kidneys.