Water purity testing in Waterford?

jh79

changeling wrote: »

The first two links are American government EPA websites hardly independent unbiased information !!!:(

The last link is a personal viewpoint from somebody who just paints the whole anti flouride movement as 'cranks' nothing debunked there!

And when he makes a statement like this one -
''Make no mistake, naturopathy is a hodge-podge of quackery that includes homeopathy, reiki, traditional Chinese medicine and various detoxification woo, while many chiropractic practices are also highly dubious''-
his sole OPINION being that all of the above is just quackery makes this blog one to ignore.

Those links are in no way an argument for flouridation.
Comparing disease rates between countries who do flouridate and those who don't is a good place to start.

The fact that there is any question at all about how safe this practice is should be enough for any right thinking person to demand it is stopped.

A bit disingenuous here, he may paint them as cranks but he back up his stance with some scientific insight. What bits of his interpretation of the data do you disagree with?

changeling

jh79 wrote: »

A bit disingenuous here, he may paint them as cranks but he back up his stance with some scientific insight. What bits of his interpretation of the data do you disagree with?

I am still waiting for those links where you can illustrate dangers of flouridation being debunked? Scientific insight from one individual isn't sufficient, and yes you were being somewhat disingenuous yourself posting those links :rolleyes:

jh79

changeling wrote: »

I am still waiting for those links where you can illustrate dangers of flouridation being debunked? Scientific insight from one individual isn't sufficient, and yes you were being somewhat disingenuous yourself posting those links :rolleyes:

Are you agreeing that his interpretation of the data is valid?

Well you dismissed the epa website for some reason, which just collated the most relevant data

Cabaal

jh79 wrote: »

Are you agreeing that his interpretation of the data is valid?

Well you dismissed the epa website for some reason, which just collated the most relevant data

sure how could they believe the epa website, thats the big bad evil conspiracy government.
:rolleyes:

Of course if you apply the same logic to any environmental agency website/report for a country that doesn't use the stuff you could also say its "hardly independent unbiased information", its great the way you can simply dismiss a proper report by claiming its the big bad government.

Tinfoil hats are great!

kayaksurfbum

Fluoridation has been around since 1945 and no one can prove that its been harmful!

I'm really laughing at the people getting angry here because there is a little bit of fluoride in your tap water. The mobile phone in your pocket, the co2 out of your car, the aluminium from a tin of beans or chemicals in your freeze dried coffee are doing you far more harm that the water in your taps(that you dont need to drink)

spankmemunkey

Your presuming that everybody on here drinks coffee and uses mobile phones to beat the band, I dont drink coffee I dont use my mobile phone that often, I dont even have a microwave.

The whole arguement is about choice.

Why has it been REMOVED and OUTLAWED from all other European country? still havent got a good answere on this?

And why is it that any foods made using water containing fluoride are not allowed be sold withing europe by COURT ORDER!

see link

http://www.oneworldchronicle.com/?p=5402

Yes there are alot of other things in water and alot of other bad things going on, This is about choice, You dont have to buy tooth paste with fluoride in it, go to any health food store and youll get toothpaste without it.

Theres lots of chemicals in our world that are added to stuff and people say oh yeah but its only point blank blank blank but when you add all of these up theres alot of chemicals being consumed by people, and i for one would like to choose what chemicals are going into my body.

Putting Fluoride into water to make peoples TEETH better isnt enough of a justification at any level when you see how the rest of europe views it.

Ive seen plenty of people around with very bad teeth so its a bit of a waste:D

Next they'll be putting beta caroteen in the water to give us a bit of colour eh!
Theres no JUSTIFICATION to ad this to water for the sake of peoples teeth! people know how to brush their teeth today we dont only have to use tooth paste with fluoride before any of you say it.

Why dont the rest of europe ad it?

kayaksurfbum

Your right its all about choice. Choose not to drink the local supply. Problem solved.

spankmemunkey

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

Your right its all about choice. Choose not to drink the local supply. Problem solved.

Yes i will pay for that choice thanks!

Again why are the rest of Europe deciding against adding fluoride to their water supply if its so safe? and why was there a court order to stop the sales of products made using added fluoride to be sold in europe? if its so safe why have all these countries decided against it?

ronaneire

changeling wrote: »

I am still waiting for those links where you can illustrate dangers of flouridation being debunked? Scientific insight from one individual isn't sufficient, and yes you were being somewhat disingenuous yourself posting those links :rolleyes:

ronaneire wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by changeling
Flouride may be at low levels in our water supply but the concern lies in the fact that it builds up in our soft tissue and bones to a toxic level. Some people can tolerate it more than others, but these (eventual) levels of toxicity lead to all sorts of health issues for individuals.

The hydroflourisillic acid (flouride) added to our water supply is a by product of the fertiliser manufacturing industry , it is basically convenient for our water authorities to add it to our water, really doesnt cost them as much as it would to clean up the environment if these places were to dispose of it themselves.

The point is , if I and others do not want it in our water supply, it is not up to us to prove why we dont want to ingest this poison.
The reverse osmosis filters DO NOT remove good minerals from the water, but why should I have to fork out 300 -400 euro to remove something that is absolutely no benefit and is proven by endless peer reviewed scientific studies to harm people over long periods of ingestion?
http://worldtruth.tv/the-poison-in-y...r-is-fluoride/

http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/fluoride.htm
Where are you getting your information from?

I am still waiting for your reply!

spankmemunkey

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Yes i will pay for that choice thanks!

Again why are the rest of Europe deciding against adding fluoride to their water supply if its so safe? and why was there a court order to stop the sales of products made using added fluoride to be sold in europe? if its so safe why have all these countries decided against it?

I am also still waiting for a reply!

ManMade

Interesting thread to read a lot like Joe Duffy.
I suggest http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation to anyone boggled by all the facts and SHOUTING. I'll admit floridation of water is a topic that has never grabbed me so I wouldn't claim know much. What I do know is every country in Europe I've been to, drinking tap water is uncommon, not recommended and tastes disgusting. Water in European shops costs next to nothing. Youll see them carrying huge bottles of it back to there apartments. In restaurantss there, there is no such thing as tap water with a meal only bottled muck. None of that water being prepared by any state.Also they add fluoride to salt over there? So it can't be that bad. I don't really care as long as they don't change our water. My reason I like the taste of Irish tap water.

spankmemunkey

ManMade wrote: »

Interesting thread to read a lot like Joe Duffy.
I suggest http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation to anyone boggled by all the facts and SHOUTING. I'll admit floridation of water is a topic that has never grabbed me so I wouldn't claim know much. What I do know is every country in Europe I've been to, drinking tap water is uncommon, not recommended and tastes disgusting. Water in European shops costs next to nothing. Youll see them carrying huge bottles of it back to there apartments. In restaurantss there, there is no such thing as tap water with a meal only bottled muck. None of that water being prepared by any state.Also they add fluoride to salt over there? So it can't be that bad. I don't really care as long as they don't change our water. My reason I like the taste of Irish tap water.

Yes but why have the powers that be decided against adding it in europe if its okay and why was there a court order preventing the sale of products made using fluridated water in the EU?

I know they all drink bottle water i lived in a few european countries myself, but they all use tap water for COOKING making tea making coffee cooking food, Bottle water is for when you want to drink water directly from the tap, Something i dont practice myself, i always drink bottled water if i want to drink water as do my kids!

Cabaal

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I know they all drink bottle water i lived in a few european countries myself, but they all use tap water for COOKING making tea making coffee cooking food, Bottle water is for when you want to drink water directly from the tap, Something i dont practice myself, i always drink bottled water if i want to drink water as do my kids!

I'm very surprised that you've failed to do any research on the issues of drinking bottled water specifically in relation to use of plastics with BPA.

You'll find that Bisphenol A is used in an awful lot of plastics for storing food, baby bottles and yes water bottles.

Some research has shown that BPA can seep into food or beverages from containers that are made with BPA or into your body when you handle products made with BPA.

Even the FDA in the USA has expressed some concern about the affects of BPA on brain, behavior, and prostate glands in fetuses, infants, and young children.

Some experts have looked into a connection between BPA exposure and many conditions -- obesity, diabetes, ADHD, and others. The evidence isn't strong enough to show a link. (to be honest this is much the same as the claims against fluoride)

Unlike fluoride you'll find there are actual bans against BPA use
http://www.complianceandrisks.com/taiwan-to-ban-baby-bottles-containing-bisphenol-a/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-grossman/banning-bpa-coated-receipts_b_2359197.html

So your all guns blazing against fluoride with sketchy research but yet you'll continue to use and drink from bottled water and so will your kids?


If anything BPA is a far more real issue and is certainly a real issues when it comes to kids when you base it on the bans against BPA use in childrens products for under three years of age.

changeling

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm very surprised that you've failed to do any research on the issues of drinking bottled water specifically in relation to use of plastics with BPA.

You'll find that Bisphenol A is used in an awful lot of plastics for storing food, baby bottles and yes water bottles.

Some research has shown that BPA can seep into food or beverages from containers that are made with BPA or into your body when you handle products made with BPA.

Even the FDA in the USA has expressed some concern about the affects of BPA on brain, behavior, and prostate glands in fetuses, infants, and young children.

Some experts have looked into a connection between BPA exposure and many conditions -- obesity, diabetes, ADHD, and others. The evidence isn't strong enough to show a link. (to be honest this is much the same as the claims against fluoride)

Unlike fluoride you'll find there are actual bans against BPA use
http://www.complianceandrisks.com/taiwan-to-ban-baby-bottles-containing-bisphenol-a/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-grossman/banning-bpa-coated-receipts_b_2359197.html

So your all guns blazing against fluoride with sketchy research but yet you'll continue to use and drink from bottled water and so will your kids?


If anything BPA is a far more real issue and is certainly a real issues when it comes to kids when you base it on the bans against BPA use in childrens products for under three years of age.

You're absolutely right, another reason why I should feel safe in the knowledge drinking my tap water without flouride is I don't like buying water in plastic bottles , it's like being between the devil and the deep blue sea, and in fairness, the research against flouride isn't sketchy at all, you just need to do a bit of research yourself.
In fact, Ireland imports hydroflourisilicic acid from Holland to add to our water. It is a by- product of the phosphate fertiliser industry, not that expensive in itself, but the shipping of it here costs a fortune as it is very heavy.
Honestly, this policy hasn't been revisited by the Irish government since its inception in 1964, they are probably avoiding its' removal now because of fears of claims on a par with the Redress board for abused children or the army deafness claims.
The main point to this argument is CHOICE. Yes it may be added to salt in other countries but it is still a choice of whether you want to buy that salt or not.
we have no choice if it is added to our water!
Flouride calcifies the pineal gland in our brains, just one of the documented adverse effects it has on the human body. All you need to do is look it up on Youtube (one of many sources of information to make you think more broadly about this issue) to see the damage that causes. In fairness, I honestly don't see why anyone thinks it is ok to have a poison added to our water.

Why on earth would anyone argue for something that hasn't been documented as safe? And to quote a government website is being highly naive, of course they're going to have to present evidence in support of this practice, they've been adding it to our water for years!!
For your own health's sake I suggest researching for the evidence to prove its toxicity as it builds up in the body's tissues and bones, am wasting my time putting links up here, as they are either ignored or dismissed out of hand.

changeling

ronaneire wrote: »

I am still waiting for your reply!

Fair enough I did state it didnt remove the minerals, in fairness I was taking the easy way out.
Reverse Osmosis (RO) removed more than 90-99.99% of all the contaminants including minerals from the drinking water supply (see Figure 1). RO removes minerals because they have larger molecules than water. The subject of minerals and RO created controversy and disagreement among water and health professionals. The World Health Organization (WHO) made clarification that majority of healthy minerals are needed for human body is from food or dietary supplementary sources and not from drinking tap water. In addition, minerals found in water can be harmful to human health. The evidence is strong that calcium and magnesium are essential elements for human body (WQA, 2011). However, its a weak argument to suggest that we should make up this deficiency through water consumption (WQA, 2011). Tap water presents a variety of inorganic minerals which human body has difficulty absorbing (Misner, 2004). Their presence is suspect in a wide array of degenerative diseases, such as hardening of the arteries, arthritis, kidney stones, gall stones, glaucoma, cataracts, hearing loss, emphysema, diabetes, and obesity. What minerals are available, especially in "hard" tap water, are poorly absorbed, or rejected by cellular tissue sites, and, if not evacuated, their presence may cause arterial obstruction, and internal damage (Dennison, 193; Muehling, 1994; Banik, 1989).

I should have gone into far more detail on that at the time , I was posting a quick response as this thread is about flouridation anyway there is the reply you are insisting on having, though your request is off topic, and I feel you are more interested in ''being right'' than actually learning something that might benefit your health.

spankmemunkey

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm very surprised that you've failed to do any research on the issues of drinking bottled water specifically in relation to use of plastics with BPA.

You'll find that Bisphenol A is used in an awful lot of plastics for storing food, baby bottles and yes water bottles.

Some research has shown that BPA can seep into food or beverages from containers that are made with BPA or into your body when you handle products made with BPA.

Even the FDA in the USA has expressed some concern about the affects of BPA on brain, behavior, and prostate glands in fetuses, infants, and young children.

Some experts have looked into a connection between BPA exposure and many conditions -- obesity, diabetes, ADHD, and others. The evidence isn't strong enough to show a link. (to be honest this is much the same as the claims against fluoride)

Unlike fluoride you'll find there are actual bans against BPA use
http://www.complianceandrisks.com/taiwan-to-ban-baby-bottles-containing-bisphenol-a/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-grossman/banning-bpa-coated-receipts_b_2359197.html

So your all guns blazing against fluoride with sketchy research but yet you'll continue to use and drink from bottled water and so will your kids?


If anything BPA is a far more real issue and is certainly a real issues when it comes to kids when you base it on the bans against BPA use in childrens products for under three years of age.

You can buy water in Glass! Hmmmm:rolleyes: and alot of bottles are BPA free nowadays! you just have to be careful which one you pick!

spankmemunkey

Also theres a difference between Fluoride thats naturally occuring and fluoride thats added to water.

Fluoride from Nature is Calcium Fluoride.

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Also theres a difference between Fluoride thats naturally occuring and fluoride thats added to water.

Fluoride from Nature is Calcium Fluoride.

What's the difference ?

spankmemunkey

jh79 wrote: »

What's the difference ?

One is naturally occuring and the other is artificial.



http://www.fluoridationfacts.com/science/papers/aspects_of_toxicity.htm

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

One is naturally occuring and the other is artificial.



http://www.fluoridationfacts.com/science/papers/aspects_of_toxicity.htm

What is the chemical formula for the two types of flouride ?
Would you be ok with fluoridation if calcium fluoride was added to the water?

spankmemunkey

jh79 wrote: »

What is the chemical formula for the two types of flouride ?
Would you be ok with fluoridation if calcium fluoride was added to the water?

Neither, but if you look at the link i posted youll see theres a significant PPM difference between naturally occuring one and the one thats added to our water!

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Also theres a difference between Fluoride thats naturally occuring and fluoride thats added to water.

Fluoride from Nature is Calcium Fluoride.

I know there is a difference in concentration but what is the difference chemically? Are you saying one is more toxic?

spankmemunkey

jh79 wrote: »

I know there is a difference in concentration but what is the difference chemically? Are you saying one is more toxic?

Yes! just read the link

changeling

http://www.nofluoride.com/Irish_fury_over_fluoride.cfm

some more food for thought on this issue in the link above

http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/

jh79

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Yes! just read the link

Fluorine is an element it cannot exist in different forms. I don't really see the point of that link. The final concentration of fluoride is all that is important the source is immaterial. The concentration in the supply in Waterford is only 0.7ppm. Have they shown toxic effects at this level?

changeling

jh79 wrote: »

Fluorine is an element it cannot exist in different forms. I don't really see the point of that link. The final concentration of fluoride is all that is important the source is immaterial. The concentration in the supply in Waterford is only 0.7ppm. Have they shown toxic effects at this level?

Seriously have you read any of the posts AT ALL in this thread, time and again I have repeated and have thrown up links for you to READ and you come out with that??

I REPEAT : it is not the levels present in the water but the TOXIC BUILD UP in the body's tissues and bones

changeling

jh79 wrote: »

What's the difference ?

Paul Fassa - NaturalNews
You can rid you body of most fluorides with some easy natural remedies. Fluorides have been linked to a variety of severe chronic, even acute health issues. First a quick review summary of fluoride. Fluoride is a soluble salt, not a heavy metal. There are two basic types of fluoride. Calcium fluoride appears naturally in underground water sources and even seawater. Enough of it can cause skeletal or dental fluorosis, which weakens bone and dental matter. But it is not nearly as toxic, nor does it negatively affect so many other health issues as sodium fluoride, which is added to many water supplies.

Sodium Fluoride is a synthetic waste product of the nuclear, aluminum, and phosphate fertilizer industries. This fluoride has an amazing capacity to combine and increase the potency of other toxic materials. The sodium fluoride obtained from industrial waste and added to water supplies is also already contaminated with lead, aluminum, and cadmium. It damages the liver and kidneys, weakens the immune system, possibly leading to cancer, creates symptoms that mimic fibromyalgia, and performs as a Trojan Horse to carry aluminum across the blood brain barrier. The latter is recognized as a source of the notorious "dumbing down" with lower IQ's and Alzheimer's effects of fluoride.

spankmemunkey

http://bestmeal.info/food/fluoridation.shtml

jh79

changeling wrote: »

Paul Fassa - NaturalNews
You can rid you body of most fluorides with some easy natural remedies. Fluorides have been linked to a variety of severe chronic, even acute health issues. First a quick review summary of fluoride. Fluoride is a soluble salt, not a heavy metal. There are two basic types of fluoride. Calcium fluoride appears naturally in underground water sources and even seawater. Enough of it can cause skeletal or dental fluorosis, which weakens bone and dental matter. But it is not nearly as toxic, nor does it negatively affect so many other health issues as sodium fluoride, which is added to many water supplies.

Sodium Fluoride is a synthetic waste product of the nuclear, aluminum, and phosphate fertilizer industries. This fluoride has an amazing capacity to combine and increase the potency of other toxic materials. The sodium fluoride obtained from industrial waste and added to water supplies is also already contaminated with lead, aluminum, and cadmium. It damages the liver and kidneys, weakens the immune system, possibly leading to cancer, creates symptoms that mimic fibromyalgia, and performs as a Trojan Horse to carry aluminum across the blood brain barrier. The latter is recognized as a source of the notorious "dumbing down" with lower IQ's and Alzheimer's effects of fluoride.

Look fluorine is an element on the periodic table. Fluoride is the ionic form of it. It has the formula F-. It would have the same chemical properties regardless of its source. There is no such thing as natural and synthetic fluoride.

The link you previously provided suggests that sodium fluoride dissociates quicker than calcium fluoride leading to a higher concentration of fluoride. This newly introduced fluoride is not more toxic than the so called "naturally" occurring fluoride you just have a higher concentration of an known toxin.

The bit in bold says the "naturally" occurring is toxic, what I am saying is that there is no distinction between the two. It is whether the addition of sodium fluoride increases the fluoride concentration to a dangerous level is the issue. The EPA recommends a level below 4ppm, Waterford has 0.7ppm.

spankmemunkey

This practice costs the country 4 million a year! 4 million a year in a recession to ad a poison to our water thats only meant to be good for peoples teeth when we all have tooth paste at home and mouth wash?

Thats a no brainer for me to cut this out.


This is also one of the ingredients in Rat Poison. It doesnt matter what levels they are at Fluoride builds up in your system!