What is a PC Brigade and how has it stifled you?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Lyaiera wrote: »

I believe poo sounds of your own gender are generally considered less offensive. Or at least that's what I've drawn from this thread.

Toilet paper in the bowl before you start solves that issue.

Lyaiera

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Toilet paper in the bowl before you start solves that issue.

As always it comes down to whether or not there's enough toilet paper.

"I would wear a toilet roll on my belt, as was the fashion at the time."

Honey-ec

StormWarrior, I suggest you steer well clear of Diep Noodle in Ranelagh and Milano in Dundrum if you find the idea of unisex toilets so offensive.

Funnily enough, they're both open years, though, and the floods of sexual assaults in both appear to be unforthcoming.

Ranicand

StormWarrior wrote: »

Of course no-one cares about the indigenous population of women not wanting to share toilets with strange men, but as there's such a huge policy of appeasment towards muslims, I'll also be interested to see what happens when Muslim women complain about this, as I'm sure they don't want to share toilets with men either. Muslim rights vs trans rights, the ultimate showdown.

Also, who really wants their 13 year old daughter using a public toilet alone with an old man?

That don't matter to the PC brigade they will brush things under the carpet and
call it an isolated incident.

Nodin

Honey-ec wrote: »

StormWarrior, I suggest you steer well clear of Diep Noodle in Ranelagh and Milano in Dundrum if you find the idea of unisex toilets so offensive.

Funnily enough, they're both open years, though, and the floods of sexual assaults in both appear to be unforthcoming.

...there's a de-rapeyness filter in the air conditioning, apparently.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Lyaiera wrote: »

As always it comes down to whether or not there's enough toilet paper.

"I would wear a toilet roll on my belt, as was the fashion at the time."

Now you're just tryign to create problems! If I found a solution for you, you'd probably blame the accoustics of the tiling or something!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AMUV10kq_I

Ash.J.Williams

Seachmall wrote: »

My sense of humor often involves taking stupidity and dragging it to the extreme in a very dry manner. It annoys me when people then tell me not to make Jewish or racist jokes because they fail to realise I'm taking the piss out of neo-Nazis or whoever it might be.

It may be low-brow humor but it still seems to go over every-other person's head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YA5UdVhhsI

old hippy

StormWarrior wrote: »

I find it quite odd that people go on about how many transexuals are beaten/abused for being transexual. Stories of that magnitude would make it into the media, and they hardly ever do. I have known 5 transsexuals and none have ever been beaten or even had anything said to them about it. The worst they've had is people staring at them, which is hardly surprising when you're a huge man in a dress.

You're Julie Burchill, aren't you?

hames

Lyaiera wrote: »

No. That's what sex is about. Not gender.

Absolutely not. Gender is frequently used as a term of distinction synonymous with 'sex' within the medical and scientific communities.

e.g.there is an entire field of human medicine named "Gender Medicine" (it is also a well known medical research journal) which studies biological differences between the genders, with papers on topics like gender and irritable bowel syndrome, and the relationship of gender with chronic renal disease.

You are completely wrong to assert that gender as some sort of "malleable", 'inner' identity is some kind of "current thinking". It may be current thinking by those who wish it to be so, but gender, as a term, remains in widespread use as being synonymous with physical sex in science and medicine.

This is what I was talking about when I referred to widespread ignorance of scientific fact as distinct from what "gender studies" may purport among the community you are defending.

However in the past few years as neurological imaging has become more common a lot of transgender (transexual) people have been noted to have neurological sexual characteristics in line with their actual gender.

Perhaps neurological and genetic diagnostic examinations should therefore replace psychological examinations when admitting patients for gender reassignment surgery... surely you agree?

dr.bollocko

You all realise this is the same argument you've had countless times only this time instead of any actual real topic to discuss somebody's just help up a sign saying "round 1590000".

And we all end up talking about toilets.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dr.bollocko wrote: »

You all realise this is the same argument you've had countless times only this time instead of any actual real topic to discuss somebody's just help up a sign saying "round 1590000".

Could say that about a lot of AH threads.

old hippy

Ranicand wrote: »

That don't matter to the PC brigade they will brush things under the carpet and
call it an isolated incident.

Has anyone else had things brushed under the carpet by the PC Brigade? Or perhaps stuffed down the back of the sofa, or hidden behind the curtains?

Keep those calls, coming folks!

old hippy

dr.bollocko wrote: »

You all realise this is the same argument you've had countless times only this time instead of any actual real topic to discuss somebody's just help up a sign saying "round 1590000".

And we all end up talking about toilets.

In that case, let's smash the cistern together, doc!

Nodin

old hippy wrote: »

In that case, let's smash the cistern together, doc!

'PC Transsexual Thugs Vandalise Toilets'

old hippy

Nodin wrote: »

'PC Transsexual Thugs Vandalise Toilets'

Curtain Twitchers Faction to Flush Out PC Loo-natics

Lyaiera

hames wrote: »

Absolutely not. Gender is frequently used as a term of distinction synonymous with 'sex' within the medical and scientific communities.

e.g.there is an entire field of human medicine named "Gender Medicine" (it is also a well known medical research journal) which studies biological differences between the genders, with papers on topics like gender and irritable bowel syndrome, and the relationship of gender with chronic renal disease.

You are completely wrong to assert that gender as some sort of "malleable", 'inner' identity is some kind of "current thinking". It may be current thinking by those who wish it to be so, but gender, as a term, remains in widespread use as being synonymous with physical sex in science and medicine.

This is what I was talking about when I referred to widespread ignorance of scientific fact as distinct from what "gender studies" may purport among the community you are defending.

Perhaps neurological and genetic diagnostic examinations should therefore replace psychological examinations when admitting patients for gender reassignment surgery... surely you agree?

This is from their own about page.

Gender Medicine focuses on the impact of sex and gender on normal human physiology, and the pathophysiology and clinical features of disease. Gender Medicine seeks to publish reports of original scientific investigations that use biological sex and/or gender as a significant variable in the experimental protocol.

...

Specialty Section:
Gender Medicine features a specialty section, Society, Culture, and Health, focused on original reports from the entire spectrum of academic disciplines devoted to the study of the human condition as it relates to both biological sex and the broader concept of gender. One of the difficult tasks in gender medicine is to determine which phenomena are the results of biology and which are consequences of the environment. Therefore, the journal encourages scholars in disciplines such as psychology, anthropology, sociology, and other allied sciences to consider contributions to the journal.

The King of Moo

^^^^hot topic thread detected

^^^^content analysed

^^^^generating automated response

Do you have any proof at all so many illegal immigrants are coming into the country, let alone that they're not contributing to the economy?

The Road Runner

dr.bollocko wrote: »

You all realise this is the same argument you've had countless times only this time instead of any actual real topic to discuss somebody's just help up a sign saying "round 1590000".

And we all end up talking about toilets.

This is a methadone tread. ye know, to come off the real topics

Damn you PC brigade for getting me hooked on homophobia, racism, xenophobia. *shakes fist

hames

Lyaiera wrote: »

This is from their own about page.

That is a recognition of the fact that some people construe gender as something emotional or environmental.

My point, which you have not addressed, is that you are wrong in claiming that gender is something that is distinct from sex. As I said (and as the Journal said), some people (especially those in the humanities, Women's Studies, et al) may construe it as so, but it is clearly in widespread use as synonymous with 'sex' in human medicine and in scientific discourse.

Why are medics not abandoning use of the word gender in discussion of biology?

Lyaiera

hames wrote: »

That is a recognition of the fact that some people construe gender as something emotional or environmental.

My point, which you have not addressed, is that you are wrong in claiming that gender is something that is distinct from sex. As I said (and as the Journal said), some people (especially those in the humanities, Women's Studies, et al) may construe it as so, but it is clearly in widespread use as synonymous with 'sex' in human medicine and in scientific discourse.

Why are medics not abandoning use of the word gender in discussion of biology?

I don't know what you're reading but in that journal you cited there is an explicit acknowledgement that gender and sex can be the same, or it can be different. It's right there. I don't know what you're arguing because your evidence proves my point.

hames

Lyaiera wrote: »

I don't know what you're reading but in that journal you cited there is an explicit acknowledgement that gender and sex can be the same, or it can be different.

It reads to me like an acknowledgement that some people view it differently.I said it is well known that some people, for whatever reason, wish to view gender separately from sex.

But if you look at the Journal, these people who view it differently are put in at the end of the Journal, in a section separate from the contributions on biology. That's also made reference to in the piece you quoted, where people from non medical fields are invited to make submissions; but this does not go into the medical section where references to gender invariably are synonymous with sex.

Again I will ask you

Why are medics themselves not abandoning widespread use of the word gender in discussion of biology?

Links234

it's quite horrible that transgender people in general are typified as a "big man in a dress" when the reality is you wouldn't even notice the vast majority of trans people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjM-wJYMCg

also, have you not heard of transgender men? or do you think this guy should be pissing in the women's room?

CreepingDeath wrote: »

At the expense of increasing the risk of attack on women I imagine, if they're public toilets.

that's total nonsense and quite the opposite in fact, unisex toilets are safer simply because you've got a higher volume of traffic going in and out thus providing less opportunity for your strawman.

The Road Runner

Is it offensive to transexuals to to say 'i was taking to a woman and a transgender woman today' instead of 'i was talking to a ciswoman and a transgender woman today' ?

As in, does the cis have to be said?

Lyaiera

hames wrote: »

It reads to me like an acknowledgement that some people view it differently.

If you look at the Journal, these people who view it differently are put in at the end of the Journal, in a section separate from the contributions on biology. That's also made reference to in the piece you quoted, where people from non medical fields are invited to make submissions; but this does not go into the medical section where references to gender invariably are synonymous with sex.

Right here.

Gender Medicine focuses on the impact of sex and gender on normal human physiology, and the pathophysiology and clinical features of disease. Gender Medicine seeks to publish reports of original scientific investigations that use biological sex and/or gender as a significant variable in the experimental protocol.

It's explicit acknowledgement that the two can be the same or different. If you can't understand that, right there, in plain text then I don't know how to talk to you. You're obtusely ignoring the journal's own stance. The journal you cited.

The King of Moo

The Road Runner wrote: »

Is it offensive to transexuals to to say 'i was taking to a woman and a transgender woman today' instead of 'i was talking to a ciswoman and a transgender woman today' ?

Surely it'd be simpler to say "I was talking to two women yesterday" unless you needed to specify that one was a transgender woman for some reason.

Links234

The Road Runner wrote: »

Is it offensive to transexuals to to say 'i was taking to a woman and a transgender woman today' instead of 'i was talking to a ciswoman and a transgender woman today' ?

As in, does the cis have to be said?

why not just say you were talking to two women?

hames

Lyaiera wrote: »

Right here.



It's explicit acknowledgement that the two can be the same or different. If you can't understand that, right there, in plain text then I don't know how to talk to you. You're obtusely ignoring the journal's own stance. The journal you cited.

Did you read my post?

Like me, the cat and the kitchen sink, the journal recognizes that some people view gender differently to medics and scientists, and they have explicitly invited submissions from them.

But these submissions go in a different section, separate from the medical and biological sciences, where gender and sex are terms that are used interchangeably, as they are on a widespread level in science generally.

For the third time i will ask you

Why are scientists themselves not abandoning widespread use of the word gender in discussion of biology?

Lyaiera

hames wrote: »

Did you read my post?

Like me, the cat and the kitchen sink, the journal recognizes that some people view gender differently to medics and scientists, and they have explicitly invited submissions from them.

But these submissions go in a different section, separate from the medical and biological sciences, where gender and sex are terms that are used interchangeably, as they are on a widespread level in science generally.

For the third time i will ask you

Why are scientists themselves not abandoning widespread use of the word gender in discussion of biology?

Yet again, you're the only person arguing that that's their current position. I have provided you with a quote from the "About" section twice. Once with a further explanation of the journal's stance on affiliated sciences (although you seem to think they're not sciences.) Twice with the journals stance about its main body of interest where it explicitly allows for both sex and gender to be the same or different. I literally cannot make this more obvious to you.

The Road Runner

The King of Moo wrote: »

Surely it'd be simpler to say "I was talking to two women yesterday" unless you needed to specify that one was a transgender woman for some reason.

Well yeah, if i was talking to a transgender man or woman and we were discussing the topic of transgender and i said the above.

hames

Lyaiera wrote: »

Yet again, you're the only person arguing that that's their current position. I have provided you with a quote from the "About" section twice. Once with a further explanation of the journal's stance on affiliated sciences (although you seem to think they're not sciences.) Twice with the journals stance about its main body of interest where it explicitly allows for both sex and gender to be the same or different. I literally cannot make this more obvious to you.

You know you are wrong on this because you are refusing to answer the question, and I'm going to keep asking you.

Ignoring the section that Gender Studies also publishes so as it can incorporate feminists, anthropologists and sociologists,

Why are scientists themselves -- including those writing in the science section of Gender Studies -- not abandoning widespread use of the word gender to mean 'sex' in discussion of biology?

The King of Moo

The Road Runner wrote: »

Well yeah, if i was talking to a transgender man or woman and we were discussing the topic of transgender and i said the above.

I personally would probably say "a cisgender woman and a transgender woman" to make the distinction clear, and because saying "a woman and a transgender woman" suggests that a transgender woman is not actually a woman.

It just seems like common sense to do so to me.

Chuck Stone

I don't know a huge amount about transexual people and the problems they face so I employ this brilliant strategy when the subject comes up for debate.

I keep my mouth shut and my ears/mind open.

GoldenLight

Ok in answer to the OP question, I probably would appear to people who don't know me to be part of the PC Birgade, I actually have no problem with anyone voicing their own view point (that I disagree with), as long as they willing to back it up with debate and facts, which is what I consider a conversation. I just hate when a discussion is going on and one or either side hasn't a clue, and they throw the PC card on the table (it's like kids playing a magic pokeman card that doesn't exsist). As far as I concerned it happens equally pro and against PCer's.

You give me a good reason you believe the way you do, I will except that is your view point, I will either agree to disagree, or you will have changed my mind. I have many friends I disagree with things on, but that only enriches my life

Now this elephant in the room, please read this next quote

Hunterbiker wrote: »

A quick search on google does indeed show that 'Gender Neutral' toiletgate was reported in The Daily Mail and Mailonline. It is typical of this newspaper.

To clarify this is one development that contains 4 toilets and a cafe. Its not all public facilities in Brighton and Hove.

I'd also suggest that this does not reflect a pattern across the UK. This is headline grabbing. In ttruth there is no harm with shared facilities and it is no different to other coucils in the UK to introduce 'squat toilets' (City of Manchester Council) @ Rochdale Exchange Shoppibg Centre to cater for members of the muslim Asian community.

As for funding seems to a local parish council idea with support from the City Council funds are set aside for maintaining and building new facilities. I'd rather they'd build somewhere for people to pee than not to be honest...

I am Transgendered, and they aren't exactly change ever toliet in the county council, 4 of them (and Brighton and Manchester have a bigger than usual trans community) please don't be so worried about your toilet seat or urinal going away to soon.

Also it is a huge help to us as transgendered people to have "a" (1 or 4) toilets to go too. Because generally we don't want to offend anyone, we just want to live our lives without being ridiculed by everyone in our lives, including strangers.

Now in saying that this thread seems to have become, a transgendered thread, which I'm prity sure the OP didn't want that,

Sorry I also noticed there also seems to be alot of question about jargon, within the words used within the transgendered community, I would suggest someone start a thread on that, it could help people to be less confused about the trans community. I shall leave it at that for this thread

Hamiltonion wrote: »

I'd advise anyone who wants to know more about trans individuals and the trans rights movement to check out http://www.teni.ie/

old hippy wrote: »

Fintan O’ Toole on the PC

We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug.

I actually like this as I said I have no problem with people believing what they do, stating something offensive, or questioning means (to me) that you are open to discussing it, which means friendly banter, debate and discussion (I enjoy all of those things)

I just hate when someone says I'm wrong, thick, gob****e, dick, or any other name (or personnel attack), just because my view point is not fitting to a persons view point.

As I said this happens equally among the PC Birgade, and the Anti PC Birgade.

End of Rant

monkeypants

It's got to the point where you can't write racial abuse in excrement on someone's car without the PC Brigade jumping down your throat.

GoldenLight

monkeypants wrote: »

It's got to the point where you can't write racial abuse in excrement on someone's car without the PC Brigade jumping down your throat.

very true you can't, I'm guessing theres a reason why that sort of carry on became a law breaking offence, just guessing though.

hames

With respect, from what I have read in the more contentious dialogue surrounding human sexuality, it is the so-called 'liberals' who can prove just as casuistic and misleading in their claims and assertions as their so-called 'non PC' opponents. But because what they are often saying 'feels' right, or appeases our naturally liberal outlooks, it just gets accepted and the logical leaps that may be taken en route to the liberal bottom line are ignored.

I agree that political correctness has become a pejorative term and should be scrapped entirely, though.

CreepingDeath

Links234 wrote: »

that's total nonsense and quite the opposite in fact, unisex toilets are safer simply because you've got a higher volume of traffic going in and out thus providing less opportunity for your strawman.

As I specifically said public toilets, and I mentioned on-street toilets, have always had an unsavoury and unsafe reputation.
Making them unisex would only increase the risk to women.

Unisex toilets in a city centre pub staffed with bouncers etc, are not the issue.

This thread was under the broad topic of people stifled by the PC brigade which is much broader than the narrow agenda pushed by the usual suspects here.

GoldenLight

CreepingDeath wrote: »

As I specifically said public toilets, and I mentioned on-street toilets, have always had an unsavoury and unsafe reputation.
Making them unisex would only increase the risk to women.

Unisex toilets in a city centre pub staffed with bouncers etc, are not the issue.

This thread was under the broad topic of people stifled by the PC brigade which is much broader than the narrow agenda pushed by the usual suspects here.

Read back two posts above you, and stop creating an agrument, it 5 toliets, in a very much cities that trans folk bring their money, (so yes it actually makes sense) move along to the next public toliet, and use your board speak on them,

now please tell me how I can help you how you feel comfortable in your minorities (sorry edited by me?)

The Road Runner

Really don't mean any offense to transgendered people here. But if i was getting abuse from people every time i used either toilet i would just use the disabled one to save myself any trouble.

Cookie_Monster

Links234 wrote: »

and you know what? unisex toilets wouldn't be a bad thing either, everyone would have their own cubicles and privacy. oh dear, the sky would fall! :eek:

but there's rarely if ever a queue for the mens and there always is for the wimmins, why should we have to queue for a unisex toilet now :mad:

Links234 wrote: »

it's quite horrible that transgender people in general are typified as a "big man in a dress" when the reality is you wouldn't even notice the vast majority of trans people.

Was actually having a discussion about this a while ago. You can tell from the elbows. If you put your arm out straight, men will have a straight arm, women always have a slight angle due to the elbow joint.

Rasheed

The 'PC Brigade' (stupid term) is mighty when it comes to educating people on terms or notions that are now hurtful to some, that may have been previously harmless.

Any problem that arises is either people steadfastly holding on to ideas or words they use, even when it's explained to them that it's wrong, or the 'PC brigade' not educating, more demanding change without explanation or insulting people's intelligence by saying they are dim to not know all hurtful terms etc.

GoldenLight

I would like to point out to people here, they wouldn't have a clue, if they where talking to a transgendered person, unless they that person was in the public aria, or that person was looking for it (most people take it on face value) it's only trangendered people, and trans admires that look at people differently.

I haven't found this thread at all offensive, I find it interesting, the fact it started off as a anti PC, thread, and it seems to have become statements and questions about the trans community. Believe me I would prefer someone would set up another thread for this. Maybe someone should,

I look forward to the new thread, where I will and others answer question.

Can we for now keep this thread on topic, please and thank you;)

GoldenLight

CreepingDeath wrote: »

As I specifically said public toilets, and I mentioned on-street toilets, have always had an unsavoury and unsafe reputation.
Making them unisex would only increase the risk to women.

Unisex toilets in a city centre pub staffed with bouncers etc, are not the issue.

This thread was under the broad topic of people stifled by the PC brigade which is much broader than the narrow agenda pushed by the usual suspects here.

Now Read (4) post before yours, it is 5 toliets, you can still wee like a man, jesus christ do people not know now to read, or do the read/hear what they like, to proof their own points, (and I guessing that is how they are actually going to call me part of the PC birgade,

it's not my fault no one reads any more (but people are starting to sound like yuck!!!! I don't like vegtables (as my three a day) All I can say is grow the **** up, and I the very person that dosn't eant people to be responsible.

Oh for god sake, atleast I used to banging my head against a wall, calling all head bangers

GoldenLight

GoldenLight wrote: »

Now Read (4) post before yours, it is 5 toliets, you can still wee like a man, jesus christ do people not know now to read, or do the read/hear what they like, to proof their own points, (and I guessing that is how they are actually going to call me part of the PC birgade,

it's not my fault no one reads any more (but people are starting to sound like it's yuck!!!! I don't like vegtables (as I did as three year old) All I can say is grow the **** up, and I'm the very person that dosn't want people to be responsible.

Oh for god sake, atleast I used to banging my head against a wall, calling all head bangers

at least I now have people who will do it for me

Annasopra

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but there's rarely if ever a queue for the mens and there always is for the wimmins, why should we have to queue for a unisex toilet now :mad:


Was actually having a discussion about this a while ago. You can tell from the elbows. If you put your arm out straight, men will have a straight arm, women always have a slight angle due to the elbow joint.

That elbow thing is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on boards.ie. I have quite a few trans male and trans female friends. Some of these would actually be impossible to tell that they were trans unless you actually knew.

Scruffles

awec wrote: »

Treating everyone with the same respect is the glossed up way of saying you shouldn't offend anyone.

If someone disagrees with gay marriage for example, should they tell that to gay people or should they just outright lie to their face if it comes up in conversation?

I'm just using that as a completely random example.

if someone disagreed with gay marriage,they shoudnt outright lie about what they think if the subject came up but they shoud only give their opinion if the subject was brought up and also choose their language wisely-whether people agree with what someone does or not they do deserve to be treated respectfuly and mannerly; not have an opinion forced on them by someone who thinks they are the only being who speaks honesty when in all actuality what they are doing is knowingly upsetting people in a bid to get their opinion aired,honesty is a different beast and its used way to much as an excuse and disguise by people who have got fuk all care and consideration for anyone-that is being an arsehole; not honesty.

respect is about having consideration for others,by having basic respect for everyone it doesnt mean the person is avoiding offending people,but it means are choosing not to deliberately offend.
am someone who has respect for everyone bar accute bullies/pyschopaths/animal abusers but am also one of the most brutaly honest people woud probably ever meet.

efb

StormWarrior wrote: »

Most women don't want to share a toilet with strange men pissing at urinals. Secondly, the city of Brighton alone is spending £140,000 changing the toilets to unisex. In France they already have unisex toilets with no cubicles, looks like we are heading that way. I seriously doubt most people want to share toilets with the opposite sex with or without cubicles but of course it's only fair that the majority should be displeased to please a minority.

You ever use the toilet on the train?

GoldenLight

Scruffles wrote: »

if someone disagreed with gay marriage,they shoudnt outright lie about what they think if the subject came up but they shoud only give their opinion if the subject was brought up and also choose their language wisely-whether people agree with what someone does or not they do deserve to be treated respectfuly and mannerly; not have an opinion forced on them by someone who thinks they are the only being who speaks honesty when in all actuality what they are doing is knowingly upsetting people in a bid to get their opinion aired,honesty is a different beast and its used way to much as an excuse and disguise by people who have got fuk all care and consideration for anyone-that is being an arsehole; not honesty.

respect is about having consideration for others,by having basic respect for everyone it doesnt mean the person is avoiding offending people,but it means are choosing not to deliberately offend.
am someone who has respect for everyone bar accute bullies/pyschopaths/animal abusers but am also one of the most brutaly honest people woud probably ever meet.

That was/is said a hell of a better than I could have said/ say it, it's exactly what I meant, thank you.

How why the **** do we still have a trans issue in this thread, I'm diffently not your PC/anti PC issue, I actually have a life, thank you:cool:

MadsL

StormWarrior wrote: »

In England, where I live, they are now scrapping seperate-sex toilets and making toilets unisex to please transsexuals. I don't want to share toilets with men and see them pissing at the urinals.

Then don't look. It is actually quite hard to see anything other than the arse of someone's trousers if you are not actually standing beside them and look.

Honestly.

As to people being asshats to transgendered/TVs, I used to have a prick I worked with at a late night coffee place in D1 a good few years ago regularly say "Here's your coffee, Sir" to a full dressed elderly TV, I'd make a point of going over just after him and saying "How's the coffee ma'am? Alright? Let me know if you need anything else. You are always welcome here, ma'am".

Absolute arsehole to treat someone like that.

Cookie_Monster

mango salsa wrote: »

That elbow thing is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on boards.ie. I have quite a few trans male and trans female friends. Some of these would actually be impossible to tell that they were trans unless you actually knew.

if you think so but actually ask people to do it, its notable.

Also finger length ratios change between male and female at a developmental stage as does the length of your forearm in relation to arm length; all much much less obvious though.