What is a PC Brigade and how has it stifled you?

old hippy

666irishguy wrote: »

PC brigade have succeeded in what no dictator or crackpot totalitarian regime has succeeded in doing; making people self censor and alter their thought process to suit what is the acceptable or desired official stance in the eyes of the said PC brigade. The amount of people I have hear say; "you couldn't say this in public but I think..." is growing yearly.

Isn't it terrible how we can't call people offensive names and racial slurs anymore. The horror of it all.

old hippy

Caliden wrote: »

The only people offended by that Faulty Tower episode were white.

Which episode? The one with the sterotypical lazy untrustworthy Irishman? The one with the n word? The one with the stereotypical Spaniard?

666irishguy

old hippy wrote: »

Isn't it terrible how we can't call people offensive names and racial slurs anymore. The horror of it all.

Almost as bad as not being able to speak your mind, or more correctly being conditioned to not letting yourself speak your mind.

old hippy

666irishguy wrote: »

Almost as bad as not being able to speak your mind, or more correctly being conditioned to not letting yourself speak your mind.

And how would you like to speak your mind, then? Would you like to be free to use racial slurs against people?

Sometimes I'd like to use certain words to certain individuals here who pursue their narrow minded agenda for a return to archaic less enlightened times but I bite my tongue because calling them ignorant, arrogant c***s would cause offence.

See, I stop to think about that sort of thing, so as not to cause said offence. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all considered other peoples' feelings before opening our gobs?

dttq

old hippy wrote: »

Has the PC Brigade stifled you lately? Has it had a direct impact on your day to day life? Have you any amusing anecdotes about it going mad, somewhere in your locality?

Answers in red crayon, please.

I'm no longer allowed to slag black people to their faces in the office or keep the OH in her place, with a good beating if needs be thanks to the feminazis. It's political correctness gone mad I tell you.

The Road Runner

old hippy wrote: »

And how would you like to speak your mind, then?

What if I wanted to create a piece of art that depicted someone from an 'archaic less enlightened time' ?

old hippy

The Road Runner wrote: »

What if I wanted to create a piece of art that depicted someone from an 'archaic less enlightened time' ?

I'm not stopping you. If you, as an artist, feel the muse stirring you - you must use your talent and wisdom.

The Road Runner

old hippy wrote: »

I'm not stopping you. If you, as an artist, feel the muse stirring you - you must use your talent and wisdom.

So what's your problem with the Fawlty Towers depiction of the major as an archaic mindset?

Daveysil15

old hippy wrote: »

And how would you like to speak your mind, then? Would you like to be free to use racial slurs against people?

You can say a lot less than that and get yourself in trouble with the PC Brigade. Even having an opinion in some cases is too much.

9959

Daveysil15 wrote: »

You can say a lot less than that and get yourself in trouble with the PC Brigade. Even having an opinion in some cases is too much.

If having an opinion is too much for you, then there's not much that we here in the 'PC Brigade' can do for you.
It's probably just the stress of modern living, have you consulted a doctor?

The King of Moo

It's not a phrase I use lightly, but editing out the Major's line is...

PC gone mad.

If the n-word were used in a normal situation by an intelligent character and in other ways the programme were showing black characters to be inferior, then it would be racist.

But there's a big difference between that and a character depicted as senile and out of touch (in the 1970s) using the term as part of one of his many absurd pronouncements.

I don't think we need to worry about kids using it in the playground after hearing the Major use it during one of the many G.O.L.D Fawlty Towers-Open All Hours-Last of the Summer Wine marathons they love.

Of course the programme did rely on some stereotypes like the lazy Irish builder, but we should give people credit and assume they recognise an outdated comedy stereotype when they see one. I've never been offended by O'Reilly.

Though it would be wrong to suggest that this one case illustrates how all society has got too politically correct, when it's only an isolated incident.

Chuck Stone

old hippy wrote: »

Don't forget the lazy, incompetent Irish builder in it.

old hippy wrote: »

The one with the sterotypical lazy untrustworthy Irishman?

Oh come on. Almost everyone in the show is a caricature. Basil Faulty is the biggest, class obsessed, hen-pecked gobshite of the lot and it happens that he's English and English people love the show.

Daveysil15

9959 wrote: »

If having an opinion is too much for you, then there's not much that we here in the 'PC Brigade' can do for you.
It's probably just the stress of modern living, have you consulted a doctor?

Did I say it was too much for me?

Grayson

**** **** ****

That's how the pc brigade has affected me.

Chuck Stone

Grayson wrote: »

**** **** ****

That's how the pc brigade has affected me.

Love, kiss & hugs?

That's so nice sweetie.

end of the road

a PC brigade who tells one what they can and can't say? just as well i don't let them dictate to me then, in saying that i try my best not to be offensive to people (i do fail sometimes but so be it) still if such brigade makes life hard for some of the people who go on these scrape the barrel talk shows then good.

Nodin

end of the road wrote: »

a PC brigade who tells one what they can and can't say? just as well i don't let them dictate to me then, in saying that i try my best not to be offensive to people (i do fail sometimes but so be it) still if such brigade makes life hard for some of the people who go on these scrape the barrel talk shows then good.

Wtf?

666irishguy

old hippy wrote: »

And how would you like to speak your mind, then? Would you like to be free to use racial slurs against people?

Sometimes I'd like to use certain words to certain individuals here who pursue their narrow minded agenda for a return to archaic less enlightened times but I bite my tongue because calling them ignorant, arrogant c***s would cause offence.

See, I stop to think about that sort of thing, so as not to cause said offence. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all considered other peoples' feelings before opening our gobs?

I know the feeling, the uber politically correct are of the arrogant opinion it is their way or the highway, any differing opinion is either argued with from the point of extreme examples or dismissed as unenlightened, statistics are quoted and facts recycled ad-nauseum. We must tow the line though, lest somebody call us a racist. The day you are afraid to say what you think is the day we might as well elect the glorious leader and tow the line, which is ironic considering individuality and expressing yourself are the ideal for the politically correct modern man.

Millicent

666irishguy wrote: »

I know the feeling, the uber politically correct are of the arrogant opinion it is their way or the highway, any differing opinion is either argued with from the point of extreme examples or dismissed as unenlightened, statistics are quoted and facts recycled ad-nauseum. We must tow the line though, lest somebody call us a racist. The day you are afraid to say what you think is the day we might as well elect the glorious leader and tow the line, which is ironic considering individuality and expressing yourself are the ideal for the politically correct modern man.

Oh noes, statistics and facts. Can't let them get in the way of a good argument. People seem to be arguing that some imagined foe is telling them they can't have an opinion. They can. They just shouldn't be surprised when people call it out for being uninformed or built on empty opinion.

Corkfeen

I'd probably fall into the category of PC based on this discussion. But in regards to censoring episodes of Fawlty Towers, that bares more in common with bureaucratic idiocy. I don't believe that any materials should be censored, in particular older material shouldn't be sanitised for a more modern world. Works that are a product of their time should remain as such.

However this doesn't mean that i'll not critique a person's prejudices for what they are and I believe that is a necessity for society to continue to progress as it has done for centuries. If the internet was around in the sixties, i'm sure there would be objectors to the pc liberals and their civil rights movement. :rolleyes:

666irishguy

Millicent wrote: »

Oh noes, statistics and facts. Can't let them get in the way of a good argument. People seem to be arguing that some imagined foe is telling them they can't have an opinion. They can. They just shouldn't be surprised when people call it out for being uninformed or built on empty opinion.

Oh yessums who isn't sick of the "facts" and "statistics" round on any discussion on a controversial matter. In my experience most statistics and facts collected for what is usually for want of a better description a means to measure political correctness are merely getting the answers that people think are what they should answer, so I'd be warey of anybody quoting this or that "fact" or "statistic" with regards to the usual battlegrounds of the PC brigade, which are Race and Social Equality. But seriously empty opinion?...How is their opinion empty and no less valuable to an argument if it is formed on their own personal experience? Do you mean empty because it doesn't tick the boxes in the acceptable answer form? Or are you just suggesting that those who don't subscribe to whatever way of thinking is deemed by the PC brigade to be the newest and most progressive are uninformed or put bluntly just dumb? I don't think it's as simple as people arguing there is an imagined foe, I think people are arguing that they are being told overtly and more subtlety what to and what not to think and to conform to a way of thinking for fear of being handed a label such as uninformed or getting called out for a good public humiliation on why their empty opinion doesn't count.

Hootanany

StormWarrior wrote: »

In England, where I live, they are now scrapping seperate-sex toilets and making toilets unisex to please transsexuals. I don't want to share toilets with men and see them pissing at the urinals.

What if they reverse in.

pickarooney

old hippy wrote: »

And how would you like to speak your mind, then? Would you like to be free to use racial slurs against people?

Sometimes I'd like to use certain words to certain individuals here who pursue their narrow minded agenda for a return to archaic less enlightened times but I bite my tongue because calling them ignorant, arrogant c***s would cause offence.

See, I stop to think about that sort of thing, so as not to cause said offence. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all considered other peoples' feelings before opening our gobs?

You're starting to sound like a Viz character at this stage.
Personally, I can't wait for the next series of Mad Men when Peggy has to come to terms with being respected and appreciated for her contributions to the company, achieving promotions commensurate with her abilities and the generally impeccable level of tolerance in her new, smoke-free workplace.

old hippy

pickarooney wrote: »

You're starting to sound like a Viz character at this stage.
Personally, I can't wait for the next series of Mad Men when Peggy has to come to terms with being respected and appreciated for her contributions to the company, achieving promotions commensurate with her abilities and the generally impeccable level of tolerance in her new, smoke-free workplace.

Are moderators allowed trade in insults now? Just curious.

old hippy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Oh come on. Almost everyone in the show is a caricature. Basil Faulty is the biggest, class obsessed, hen-pecked gobshite of the lot and it happens that he's English and English people love the show.

I don't deny it. But the use of offensive words was back in the day. We've moved on.

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

old hippy wrote: »

Ah yes, the glory days when a white man could use the N-word and a wave of hilarity ensued.

As has been pointed out, the Major was shown in a negative light for using those words. Th audience is laughing at him, not sneering with him.

Have you ever seen Love Thy Neighbour, the British sitcom from the early 70's?

That show was far far worse for containing racist words, terms and almost every show is shocking when watched today but not because it was racist, but because society, rightly, no longer speaks in that way. However, if you were to speak with almost any black family that was living in Britain during the early 70's, they will tell you, that despite the constant racial slurs in that show, it was welcomed by them for the simple reason that Eddie, the main racist white character, was portrayed as an uneducated bigot (as also was Alf Garnett, who was a similar type of character).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=549c7QP6e4Q

Same story with Fawlty Towers and I think the only reason anyone could take issue with that scene is when they fail to take note of just how the Major is being portrayed. The only people that should have truly being offended when that aired, were racists, as they are the ones the show is suggesting are an embarrassment to the country at that time and again, that is precisely the same message that Love Thy Neighbour was sending out. Anyone who gets offended on black people's, Indian people's, Pakistani people's (etc etc) behalf all these years later, and doesn't condemn the nonsense editing of these shows is, without a question, a card carrying member of the true PC brigade.

old hippy wrote: »

Which episode? The one with the sterotypical lazy untrustworthy Irishman? The one with the n word? The one with the stereotypical Spaniard?

'Stereotypes' have always been used in comedy but you seem to suggest that they never should be. Faulty Towers had many stereotypical characters but they almost always turned them on their head to make point and I can't think of any other show at the time that attempted to do that, let alone succeeded in doing it. They had a common English guy who turned out to be a police officer and a Lord who turned out to be a thief. Made themselves look racist and unsympathetic to Germans, that just over thirty years before they had been at war with and yet the BBC deem it necessary to edit out the dialogue of a Major who has not moved on from that time. Quite frankly, I'm more offended by that than anything else.

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

old hippy wrote: »

I don't deny it. But the use of offensive words was back in the day. We've moved on.

So, should we have the word nigger removed from To Kill A Mocking Bird?

old hippy

I am not calling for these shows to be edited but I do feel uncomfortable watching certain scenes. I do know that Johnny Speight, who created Alf Garnett, intended to poke fun at the ludicrous stereotypical bigot. However, many people ironically took Alf Garnett to their hearts because he struck a chord with a certain demographic.

Years later, something similar occured when Harry Enfield's "Loadsamoney" was created to parody those brash, all money and no brains types. Yuppies and barrow boys alike failed to see the irony and went round quoting him like the foolish Thatcherites they were.

old hippy

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

So, should we have the word nigger removed from To Kill A Mocking Bird?

I never suggested that, did I?

P_1

old hippy wrote: »

I am not calling for these shows to be edited but I do feel uncomfortable watching certain scenes. I do know that Johnny Speight, who created Alf Garnett, intended to poke fun at the ludicrous stereotypical bigot. However, many people ironically took Alf Garnett to their hearts because he struck a chord with a certain demographic.

Years later, something similar occured when Harry Enfield's "Loadsamoney" was created to parody those brash, all money and no brains types. Yuppies and barrow boys alike failed to see the irony and went round quoting him like the foolish Thatcherites they were.

Without sounding insulting, if you feel uncomfortable watching certain scenes, then just don't watch them.

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

old hippy wrote: »

I never suggested that, did I?

With your replies regarding the Major's sketch, you did - as you spoke about consideration and the like and how we've moved on etc.

Thereby implying that the BBC were right to edit it.

Simple question: do you condemn the editing of the show?

Oranage2

old hippy wrote: »

I am not calling for these shows to be edited but I do feel uncomfortable watching certain scenes. I do know that Johnny Speight, who created Alf Garnett, intended to poke fun at the ludicrous stereotypical bigot. However, many people ironically took Alf Garnett to their hearts because he struck a chord with a certain demographic.

Years later, something similar occured when Harry Enfield's "Loadsamoney" was created to parody those brash, all money and no brains types. Yuppies and barrow boys alike failed to see the irony and went round quoting him like the foolish Thatcherites they were.

Jeez old hippy it's a big bad world out there. We all love your work on debunking racism here but people have the right to think what they want or laugh at what they want to laugh at. You forcing your opinions on people is exactly the same as some right wing racist forcing their opinions on people.

Millicent

666irishguy wrote: »

Oh yessums who isn't sick of the "facts" and "statistics" round on any discussion on a controversial matter. In my experience most statistics and facts collected for what is usually for want of a better description a means to measure political correctness are merely getting the answers that people think are what they should answer, so I'd be warey of anybody quoting this or that "fact" or "statistic" with regards to the usual battlegrounds of the PC brigade, which are Race and Social Equality. But seriously empty opinion?...How is their opinion empty and no less valuable to an argument if it is formed on their own personal experience? Do you mean empty because it doesn't tick the boxes in the acceptable answer form? Or are you just suggesting that those who don't subscribe to whatever way of thinking is deemed by the PC brigade to be the newest and most progressive are uninformed or put bluntly just dumb? I don't think it's as simple as people arguing there is an imagined foe, I think people are arguing that they are being told overtly and more subtlety what to and what not to think and to conform to a way of thinking for fear of being handed a label such as uninformed or getting called out for a good public humiliation on why their empty opinion doesn't count.

Contrary to popular thinking, not all opinion is equal. It has nothing to do with political stance. If you build an opinion based on prejudice or anecdotal experience, it is worth less than one that is based on fact, reasoned argument and verifiable information. Nothing to do with being PC.

old hippy

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

With your replies regarding the Major's sketch, you did - as you spoke about consideration and the like and how we've moved on etc.

Thereby implying that the BBC were right to edit it.

Simple question: do you condemn the editing of the show?

Yes but I understand why it had to happen. Do you condemn the showing of an episode of Tweenies with a Jimmy Saville like character in it? It certainly made a lot of people uncomfortable...

Is it being stifling to excise all Saville related programmes from telly?

clairefontaine

Comedy is a high risk form of entertainment and often subversive. In many ways in needs something to violate, it needs to be naughty. So there will never be any moral consensus on it, that to me a good thing.

However old hippy, I'm curious as to how you feel about the Dolmio ads with the caricature Italians making spaghetti sauce? Or are they not on you protected species list?

old hippy

clairefontaine wrote: »

Comedy is a high risk form of entertainment and often subversive. In many ways in needs something to violate, it needs to be naughty. So there will never be any moral consensus on it, that to me a good thing.

However old hippy, I'm curious as to how you feel about the Dolmio ads with the caricature Italians making spaghetti sauce? Or are they not on you protected species list?

I wouldn't compare use of the "n word" with a bunch of muppets, would you?

clairefontaine

old hippy wrote: »

I wouldn't compare use of the "n word" with a bunch of muppets, would you?

No one uses the N word except for certain black Americans and it's certainly not on mainstream advertising. BUt the Dolmio ad is an acceptable widely broadcast stereotype which gets people to buy their product. You are just used to it, so you don't see it. Or you think it's ok, therefore you don't see it.

Yes I would compare, not the same, but same continuum.

old hippy

clairefontaine wrote: »

No one uses the N word except for certain black Americans and it's certainly not on mainstream advertising. BUt the Dolmio ad is an acceptable widely broadcast stereotype which gets people to buy their product. You are just used to it, so you don't see it. Or you think it's ok, therefore you don't see it.

Yes I would compare, not the same, but same continuum.

I think I've seen it and it's pretty silly stuff but there's more pressing negative attitudes be tackled.