Milan v Barca

Seaneh

eagle eye wrote: »

What I find funny here is that there are a lot of people who give out about the Stokes of this world that are lauding Milan for their best impression at Stoke football.

You honestly haven't a clue, ever, do you?

Francie Barrett

Sergio Ramos is a headcase. Yes, he has had success with the national team, but when you look at him at Champions League knockout stages, he has been found out. His positional sense is atrocious (even more so when he used to play at full back) and he was specifically at blame for getting Real knocked out on more than one occasion.

Pique isn't a bad player by any means, but he is ridiculously overrated. For the dodgy form he's been in and the mistakes he's made, it's a complete joke that he gets included in these UEFA teams all the time.

Seans_Username

Francie Barrett

eagle eye wrote: »

What I find funny here is that there are a lot of people who give out about the Stokes of this world that are lauding Milan for their best impression at Stoke football.

Eh, defensive football isn't the same as playing like Stoke.

Turtwig

smileyj1987 wrote: »

TBH if I was striker I would rather be one on one with Pique then Puyol . Pique is a terrible defender but he gives Barcelona what they need in terms of going forward with his passing ability . He has also got bags of skill but he is average at best and is not world class . If he was such a great player then why on earth did Manchester United sell him ?

I disagree wholly on this.

Pique is a quality defender. Better than Puyol in my opinion, especially when you consider Pique's age. If he wasn't the 09 UCL final versus Man Utd would have been over in 10 mins. Not to mention, the crucial blocks he made throughout that game. In the last Clasico both him and Varane were immense. Absolutely immense. Against Malaga too. Last season he was off form a bit. But this season he's been very very good.

Terrible defender? Not a chance. He's handled CR7, Falcao this year very competently. The amount of time he makes those last ditch tackles to save Barca's hide is amazing.

Utd, sold him because he wanted to go back to his homeland.

nucker

Oh well, it proves that Barca (my second fave team) are human after all

Andersonisgod

smileyj1987 wrote: »

TBH if I was striker I would rather be one on one with Pique then Puyol . Pique is a terrible defender but he gives Barcelona what they need in terms of going forward with his passing ability . He has also got bags of skill but he is average at best and is not world class . If he was such a great player then why on earth did Manchester United sell him ?

Well no I wouldn't fancy being 1 vs 1 with Puyol either and yes Puyol remains one of the great defenders in world football. I'm not sure how that is relevant. Why did Arsenal sell Fabregas? Because he wanted to go, same with Pique, he wanted to return to his boyhood club. You would also imagine that Guardiola would have told him that he would be his man at the heart of the Barcelona defence, since then he has come on leaps and bounds as a player, he has done it all in football, his quality simply cant be questioned.

Andersonisgod

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Sergio Ramos is a headcase. Yes, he has had success with the national team, but when you look at him at Champions League knockout stages, he has been found out. His positional sense is atrocious (even more so when he used to play at full back) and he was specifically at blame for getting Real knocked out on more than one occasion.

Pique isn't a bad player by any means, but he is ridiculously overrated. For the dodgy form he's been in and the mistakes he's made, it's a complete joke that he gets included in these UEFA teams all the time.

Right on that note I'm out, I give up and I now realise that there is no hope for certain sections of the forum.

adox

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Right on that note I'm out, I give up and I now realise that there is no hope for certain sections of the forum.

Self awareness is a great trait. :pac:

Seaneh

Seans_Username wrote: »

Who is she, I love her.

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Im not saying that Milan didn't execute their plan well. The only thing I am saying in this regard is that I would always rather see the team that tries to play (or bring the game to) the opposition win rather than the team who parks the bus and counter attacks. That's an opinion simply based on how I think football should be playing, nothing more sinister.

Football would be boring if everybody played like that. The best teams would win more often and it would be more predicatable. Watching a plan like Milan's tonight executed so well was a pleasure. Their is more to football than going out attacking. Barca are a better team with better players and Milan executed a plan to give them their best chance of a victory.

Red Crow

smileyj1987 wrote: »

TBH if I was striker I would rather be one on one with Pique then Puyol . Pique is a terrible defender but he gives Barcelona what they need in terms of going forward with his passing ability . He has also got bags of skill but he is average at best and is not world class . If he was such a great player then why on earth did Manchester United sell him ?

Ferguson sold him because he was too slow and he rated Johnny Evans higher.

World class defenders... Paolo Maldini, Fabio Cannavaro, Alessandro Nesta, Lilian Thuram. Those guys were World Class. Imagine that as a back four?

There are few players that are world class. Piqué definitely isn't one of them. He was fairly solid for a period but has dropped off considerably over the past 2 seasons or so. He's overrated imo

smileyj1987

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well no I wouldn't fancy being 1 vs 1 with Puyol either and yes Puyol remains one of the great defenders in world football. I'm not sure how that is relevant. Why did Arsenal sell Fabregas? Because he wanted to go, same with Pique, he wanted to return to his boyhood club. You would also imagine that Guardiola would have told him that he would be his man at the heart of the Barcelona defence, since then he has come on leaps and bounds as a player, he has done it all in football, his quality simply cant be questioned.

To me Puyol will be a huge loss and it show everybody that Pique is average at best . To be honest he is playing for the best club side in the world with the greatest midfield for holding and passing so he rarely has a whole lot of defending to do . When you look at Barcelona's transfer policy over the last couple of years they have been buying back alot of players they let go . I would say this is down to the fact they will know what it means to play for the club . Fabregas proved himself at Arsenal and even became captain . Pique was horrendous at Manchester United and barely got a game . If he was that good he wouldn't have been let go for a pittance . As much as I dislike Alex Ferguson because of who I follow the man is a great judge of player and he just seemed to let him go . To me Pique is very over rated and should not be ever called world class .

smileyj1987

Eli Manning wrote: »

Ferguson sold him because he was too slow and he rated Johnny Evans higher.

That was the point I was making if he was world class Alex ferguson would have done all he could to keep . If Ferguson didn't really rate him then thats enough for me because if he was world class he would have played more and Man Utd . would have tried everything they could to keep him . Especially due to the fact true world class defenders don't come around that often .

MisterAnarchy

Eli Manning wrote: »

There are few players that are world class.

Spot on,that bloody term seems to be trotted out these days any time a player has one good game .

The_Kew_Tour

eagle eye wrote: »

What I find funny here is that there are a lot of people who give out about the Stokes of this world that are lauding Milan for their best impression at Stoke football.

Thanks for the laugh.

eagle eye

Blatter wrote: »

That performance from Milan was nothing like Stoke. They didn't continuously lump long balls up to the front and completely bypass midfield.

We must have been watching different games then. I seen them pump it up the field quite a bit and try and counter maybe 35/40% of the times they got the ball back. Thats just like what Stoke do.

LuckyLloyd

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Personally I dont agree. One team tried to play football tonight, the other stuck 10 men behind the ball and got a ridiculous decision in their favour that turned the game. The San Siro pitch was hardly doing any favours to the team trying to play football either.

That's not to say that Milan weren't well organised and well drilled, of course they were and there were some impressive performances on the Milan side but I'd much rather applaud a team that try to play than one that comes to park the bus.

The bull**** narrative that gets thrown around after every Barca defeat.

Milan were crisper; passed the ball really well the second half and fully deserved their victory. Aimless short passing does not 'try to play' make.

JPA

Seaneh wrote: »

Who is she, I love her.

Fanny Nequesha. No seriously.

JPA

I'd be a Barca fan, but they were poor, shocking in fact by their standards.

I don't understand all the arguments and debate, a straight forward defeat for them.

dreamers75

eagle eye wrote: »

We must have been watching different games then. I seen them pump it up the field quite a bit and try and counter maybe 35/40% of the times they got the ball back. Thats just like what Stoke do.

Except Milan subbed Crouch and Jones for actual football players.

Stokes game plan is brilliant and it works look back tru the years and many teams have won CLs with that gameplan.

But none with Peter Crouch and Kenwyne Jones up front, the others had good players.....


Greece won the Euros with it, its a solid plan. its what you do when you want to WIN.

Rekop dog

The victory could also help Silvio win the upcoming election. There's actually a bizarre correlation with huge Milan victories/runs of amazing form before elections in Italy.

Seaneh

Rekop dog wrote: »

The victory could also help Silvio win the upcoming election. There's actually a bizarre correlation with huge Milan victories/runs of amazing form before elections in Italy.

and also "big" signings and elections.

Your Airbag

Seaneh wrote: »

Who is she, I love her.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4699907/mario-balotelli-with-fanny-robert-neguesha-during-daughter-pia-birth.html

Paco Rodriguez

Did many people watch the post match? Milans first goal....the ball hit Muntari in the face and not his hands. Totally legitimate goal.

Ulysses Gaze

castletownman wrote: »

No. A centre back more comfortable going forward with the ball at his feet trying to start attacks but fairly suspect when it comes to the art of defending.

Surely you could say the same about other defenders rated as world class.

Rio Ferdinand is one that comes to mind.

keith16

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Im not saying that Milan didn't execute their plan well. The only thing I am saying in this regard is that I would always rather see the team that tries to play (or bring the game to) the opposition win rather than the team who parks the bus and counter attacks. That's an opinion simply based on how I think football should be playing, nothing more sinister.

So fucking sick of this argument. "Park the bus" is such a simplistic statement to make. Tell me, how exactly did Milan score while parking the bus?

Football is about defending as well as attacking. Barca have been found wanting in BOTH those areas this evening.

Morzadec

That was pretty much like watching Liverpool play this season (Barca's performance).

If anyone who thinks Barca 'deserved' something from that game then I imagine they also think Liverpool 'deserve' to be challenging for the league.

Fantastic game in it's own way (although I found the first half quite boring). But I was expecting to sit down to a no-contest tie, and now we have a very interesting 2nd leg on our hands, and very possibly the favourites out of the tournament. The 2nd legs are shaping up really nicely.

AC Milan a bit lucky with the first goal, but they did everything right defensively and tactically. Barca were poor by their standards and it looked comfortable for the Milan defenders (although Abate looked like he been through a war when the final whistle went!).

DDC1990

Paco Rodriguez wrote: »

Did many people watch the post match? Milans first goal....the ball hit Muntari in the face and not his hands. Totally legitimate goal.

I don't know where Muntari was, but it clearly hit Zapata on the hands.

grenache

Not a Milan fan but thank god they won. Yes i know how amazing Messi and co are, but that doesn't detract from them being very boring to watch. Passing the ball to death, always trying to score the 'perfect goal', never attempting to mix things up a little.

A good victory for Italian football tonight.

MD1990

DDC1990 wrote: »

I don't know where Muntari was, but it clearly hit Zapata on the hands.

hit him on the head

Fuzzy_Dunlop

MD1990 wrote: »

hit him on the head

Great decision. in real time it very much looked like it hit his hand.

DDC1990

MD1990 wrote: »

hit him on the head

Eh don't know what you all are watching, but that 100% hit his left hand, behind his head!

If you move it frame by frame, his arm clearly moves.

The angle behind the goals shows it better.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

DDC1990 wrote: »

Eh don't know what you all are watching, but that 100% hit his left hand, behind his head!

If you move it frame by frame, his arm clearly moves.

The angle behind the goals shows it better.

How could it have hit his left hand if his face is in between his arm and the ball in this image? his arm moves back as if to take it out of the way.

qwabercd

Seaneh wrote: »

Who is she, I love her.

If anyone has ever had the misfortune of seeing the valleys,she is the spit of lateesha. Sorry for ruining her.

MD1990

DDC1990 wrote: »

Eh don't know what you all are watching, but that 100% hit his left hand, behind his head!

If you move it frame by frame, his arm clearly moves.

The angle behind the goals shows it better.

were watching the ball hit the right side of his face
its no where near his left hand

smileyj1987

Seans_Username wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bw8sGWcGII

Moneymaker

2nd goal gets better the more you look at it. Glorious from SES and some finish to top it off.

Seaneh

DDC1990

MD1990 wrote: »

were watching the ball hit the right side of his face
its no where near his left hand

I'd just suggest looking at the 2 frames before the ball comes at Zapata, then the following three frames by clicking along. Judge the body position, and especially the arms. His left arm snaps back un-naturally, and there is no change in his head position.

IF you get hit in the face your head will jerk back, in under a second, but there seems to be no reaction from Zapata.

No frame shows it hitting the arm, and no frame shows it hitting the face. Posting screen caps, with a blurry white streak for a ball is hardly conclusive of body position. The streak of the ball in that case, along with Zapata's left arm is blocking his head IMO.

Anyway, Im not going to change your mind, and you aren't going to change mine so we might as well agree to disagree.

I have no agenda, I just think it was a handball.

EDIT: The more I look at it the less im convinced it was a handball. Still think its 60/40 Handball, but I do see what you mean about the angle and where the head is. Still its a completly un-natural reaction to being hit unexpectedly in the face.

EDIT (2): Don't know why I care I've wasted the last hour looking at the same fúcking replay.

AugustusMinimus

Can't workout how you think it was a handball. Clear as daylight to me that it hit him in the face. His movement of his left hand was nothing more than a reaction.

Giggsy11

Milan performance was one of the best performance I have seen against Barca in long time. They executed their game plan so well that Barca hardly had a chance at goal. I don't remember Abbiatti making a decent save (I dont remember any save at all, only shot on target was shot from Xavi from distance which was nothing shot).

Never seen Messi having such a poor game, which shows how good Milan were. Hopefully they will complete the job in the second leg.

iregk

I'm somewhat baffled by the news on the radio and the guys on RTE last night saying how this was a complete shock and indeed according to Nova this morning it's the shock of the round. Now not sure about the rest of you but I watched Barcelona beaten 2-0 in the San Siro by AC Milan, the most successful club in the history of the sport. How is this such a shock to most people?

Jelle1880

iregk wrote: »

I'm somewhat baffled by the news on the radio and the guys on RTE last night saying how this was a complete shock and indeed according to Nova this morning it's the shock of the round. Now not sure about the rest of you but I watched Barcelona beaten 2-0 in the San Siro by AC Milan, the most successful club in the history of the sport. How is this such a shock to most people?

It's only recently that they picked themselves up again and are climbing up the league, while Barca have dominated their league from the start.

I don't think it's that weird that this came as a shock to some people.

AugustusMinimus

The way they were talking about Milan last night would make you think they were a Championship club and not the biggest European club of the last 30 years. Came across as quite bizarre.

iregk

Yes Barca have dominated their league from the start but are not having their best form recently as I understand. Milan are the form team of Seria A which is the most competitive league in Europe and are unbeaten in 2013. They are the form team in Italy so I'm still not sure how most people were shocked by this. Unless of course they don't watch anything outside of the premiership in which case they've probably been told that Italian football is crap, Milan are yesterdays news and Barcelona are the greatest thing ever. In that case probably a shock yes.

AugustusMinimus

Never has a league been written-off as much as Serie A.

Two finalists and 3 semi-finalists in 2003 and people were still saying it was ****. And yes, it seems to be the people who aren't watching it are the ones with the strongest views about it.

Andersonisgod

iregk wrote: »

Yes Barca have dominated their league from the start but are not having their best form recently as I understand. Milan are the form team of Seria A which is the most competitive league in Europe and are unbeaten in 2013. They are the form team in Italy so I'm still not sure how most people were shocked by this. Unless of course they don't watch anything outside of the premiership in which case they've probably been told that Italian football is crap, Milan are yesterdays news and Barcelona are the greatest thing ever. In that case probably a shock yes.

Important to note that Barcelona probably are the best thing to ever happen to football.

Rekop dog

I'd argue you have less understanding of the European game/football in general if you didn't see that as a huge shock.

And most competitive league in the world? I'm a massive Serie A fan but that would be a pretty hard sell for even the most bias fan.

iDave

It was an upset but certainly not a shock.
I think the Milan players over-celebrated a little after though. Looks like the underdog status had permeated into the dressing room