Is multiculturalism wanted??

woodoo

I was reading through a piece on white flight from London on the BBC and was struck by the feedback. Much of the feedback is at odds with the writer. So many people seem to against the idea of multiculturalism, mass immigration and ghettoisation and no longer feel at home in some of their larger cities. Are they being unreasonable? racist? or do they have a genuine grievance that today's hyper-PC society doesn't allow them voice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

David Cameron, Angela Merkel and Sarkozy have all recently cast doubt on multiculturalism. Do we have anything to learn from other European countries that have already seen major change or should we continue on with the project and stifle any decent as racist or hysterical?

CreepingDeath

The Africans haven't brought any decent food or beer over.

wp_rathead

these threads always end well

Nodin

CreepingDeath wrote: »

The Africans haven't brought any decent food or beer over.

That's because they came for the batter burgers and stout.

BillyMitchel

CreepingDeath wrote: »

The Africans haven't brought any decent food or beer over.

When they first started to arrive they brought some seriously good weed though.

Einhard

Multiculturalism should never have been a policy in Europe. By multiculturalism, I mean the notion that every facet of every culture was to be respected, and that to call certain practices or belief into question was an inherently racist attitude. That kind of attitude has caused huge damage across the continent and, ironically, has hieghtened ethnic and racial tensions. I'm all for immigration. I like the diversity that immigration provides. However, I'm in favour of the melting pot where all cultures mix together as part of a broader society, not one where each culture forms its own segregated society. That's no fun. And it's pretty dangerous too. So multiculturalism, meh. Melting pot, yah!

Azure_sky

Not wanting multi-cultural is not racism, it's xeno-phobia. I do believe that they should have the right to voice their opinion but I'd doubt I'd agree with their opinions. Our own culture is far from perfect. The culture of alcoholism for a start.

keelanj69

Will we have to accomodate them all toilet-wise?

ToddyDoody

In many parts of Ireland, multicultural = someone U don't already know living in YOUR town

SirTallaghtban

woodoo wrote: »

I was reading through a piece on white flight from London on the BBC and was struck by the feedback. Much of the feedback is at odds with the writer. So many people seem to against the idea of multiculturalism, mass immigration and ghettoisation and no longer feel at home in some of their larger cities. Are they being unreasonable? racist? or do they have a genuine grievance that today's hyper-PC society doesn't allow them voice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

David Cameron, Angela Merkel and Sarkozy have all recently cast doubt on multiculturalism. Do we have anything to learn from other European countries that have already seen major change or should we continue on with the project and stifle any decent as racist or hysterical?

Of course its not wanted. Not that it matters. If big business wants more cheap labour, then thats what it shall get.

And screw the tens of millions of native Europeans whom are unemployed in their own land.

Nodin

ToddyDoody wrote: »

In many parts of Ireland, multicultural = someone U don't already know living in YOUR town

...though in some parts of Ireland, a lesbian is a woman who says 'its not my turn' when asked to make tay.

philologos

woodoo wrote: »

I was reading through a piece on white flight from London on the BBC and was struck by the feedback. Much of the feedback is at odds with the writer. So many people seem to against the idea of multiculturalism, mass immigration and ghettoisation and no longer feel at home in some of their larger cities. Are they being unreasonable? racist? or do they have a genuine grievance that today's hyper-PC society doesn't allow them voice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

David Cameron, Angela Merkel and Sarkozy have all recently cast doubt on multiculturalism. Do we have anything to learn from other European countries that have already seen major change or should we continue on with the project and stifle any decent as racist or hysterical?

This can be explained rather easily:
People want to live outside of London. I can understand why this would be the case for people, particular those with families.

If you see the map you clearly see what is happening. Quite a lot of the places in blue around London would still be commutable for a lot of people.

SirTallaghtban

Azure_sky wrote: »

Not wanting multi-cultural is not racism, it's xeno-phobia. I do believe that they should have the right to voice their opinion but I'd doubt I'd agree with their opinions. Our own culture is far from perfect. The culture of alcoholism for a start.

Native Britons are a minority in London. Could be Dublin in 20 odd years.

Would you be happy with becoming a minority in your own land?

Cungi

Broadening of the gene pool is a good thing

Pherekydes

ToddyDoody wrote: »

In many parts of Ireland, multicultural = someone U don't already know living in YOUR town

In South Kerry, it's someone not related to you.

P_1

I suppose it's natural for people to want to associate with people who would be the same as them, be that, speak the same language, eat the same foods, like similar music/sports etc, all the way down to having the same skin colour as them in some cases.

Is there anything wrong with that? Absolutely not (well apart from the skin colour part).

The problem is that if you can't articulate that properly you're automatically branded as a racist and then there's no real comeback from that

SirTallaghtban

philologos wrote: »

This can be explained rather easily:
People want to live outside of London. I can understand why this would be the case for people, particular those with families.

If you see the map you clearly see what is happening. Quite a lot of the places in blue around London would still be commutable for a lot of people.

Yeah, its called white flight.

Already happening in north west Dublin since 2006.

Rtes primetime did a piece on it - then never mentioned it again!

My name is URL

To be fair, the racists and bigots have a tendency to twist the definition of the word to suit their agenda. Multiculturalism, in the context that Merkel & Cameron etc are speaking in; has nothing to do with people of different ethnicities living side by side and so on. It's about the role that the state plays in bringing that about. Currently, the overly involved state places too much red-tape in the way of people to 'integrate' fully with overall populations.. it leads to ghettoization and once that mould is set it's almost impossible to break.

Einhard

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Native Britons are a minority in London. Could be Dublin in 20 odd years.

Would you be happy with becoming a minority in your own land?

Do you have a link for that? What exactly do you mean by "native Britons"?

Nodin

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Native Britons are a minority in London. Could be Dublin in 20 odd years.

Would you be happy with becoming a minority in your own land?

How would you define a "native Briton"?

woodoo

From the BBC article:

Why have the white British left London?


Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 - equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out.

The consequence, as revealed by the latest census, is that white Brits are now in a minority in London, making up just 45% of its residents.

So where have they gone to - and why did they leave?

I've been analysing and mapping the census data, and what emerges is a much more positive story than some headlines would make you think.

The movement of the white British is often characterised as white flight - the indigenous population forced out of their neighbourhoods by foreign migrants. That may be part of the story, but I think the evidence suggests it is also about working class aspiration and economic success.


Trying to track internal migrants is never easy. Just because the population of one place has fallen and another has risen does not mean residents moved between them. But there are some clues as to where London's white British migrated to between the censuses of 2001 and 2011.

While the capital's white British population fell by 620,000, the white British population in the rest of England and Wales increased by 220,000. (The overall fall of 400,000 is explained by a low birth rate and emigration.)

These maps show the change to the white British population in local authorities in England and Wales between 2001 and 2011. (Click between the three headings to see how the white British population is seemingly shifting around the country.)

Biggest decreasesOutside LondonBiggest increases

London's dramatic loss of white British residents is represented by a splash of yellow and orange. Outside the capital, the dominant blues tell a story of an increasing white British population. In some places the rise is quite marked.

Areas with biggest increase

South Derbyshire
13.7%
North Kesteven, Lincolnshire
13%
Uttlesford, Essex
11.8%
East Northamptonshire
10.9%
West Lindsey, Lincolnshire
10.7%
East Cambridgeshire
9.7%
Mid Suffolk
9.7%
South Norfolk
9.7%
Mid Devon
9.5%
Forest Heath, Suffolk
8.8%
St Edmundsbury, Suffolk
8.7%
Kettering, Northamptonshire
8.7%
The dozen authorities with the highest percentage increase in the white British population are almost all found in eastern England. Only mid-Devon falls outside a horseshoe of largely rural authorities extending south and east from the Fens.

It would appear that, in the first decade of the 21st Century, the dream of escaping to the country became a reality for tens of thousands of urban white Britons. But did they leave willingly or were they forced to move?

To find out, I have been to Barking and Dagenham, a London borough which has seen a phenomenal change in its cultural make-up over the past decade or so. In 2001, the census records that more than 80% of residents were white British. By 2011, it was statistically in the minority - just 49% of people in the area described themselves as white and British.

The story of Barking and Dagenham is the story of the white working class EastEnders. In the 1920s and 30s, tens of thousands of families were moved out of the inner city slums and into the huge council estates which had been built in the borough.

The 27,000 houses on the Becontree estate were described as homes for heroes, often allocated to the families of World War I servicemen. Another wave of Cockney sparrows built their nests in the area, having been bombed out of the East End during the Blitz in WWII.


The Becontree estate in 1950
This was a real step up for many families. Their new homes had indoor toilets and often a small garden. When Ford opened its giant plant at Dagenham in 1931, tens of thousands of jobs provided income security in the midst of profound economic depression.

Although Barking and Dagenham's population declined slightly in the 1960s and 70s, the last years of the 20th Century saw it rise again. Many families took advantage of the right to buy their council house at 30% of its market value - at least two-thirds of the Becontree estate was sold to the private sector.

In 2000, the borough was among the very few places in Greater London where you could still buy a three-bedroom house for under £100,000. The capital's buoyant property market meant that anyone who got on the housing ladder would see their home become a valuable investment during the first 10 years of the new millennium.

The decade also saw the Ford plant contract and ultimately the company announced it was closing down. The economic engine of the borough was being switched off, leading many of the local people to think about their future. In the first 10 years of the new century, the number of full-time jobs in Barking and Dagenham fell by a quarter.


Ford is cutting jobs at its Dagenham factory
For many white British households, the 2000s had left them without a job but with a sizeable chunk of capital in their home. Some had also benefited from redundancy pay-outs and pension deals offered by Ford. It was a cue for the families who had left London's East End in the middle of the 20th Century to move on again at the start of the 21st.

A closer look at London reveals how many neighbourhoods in the outer boroughs have seen significant falls in the white British population - Newham, Brent, Haringey, Enfield, Ealing, Hounslow, Merton and Lewisham almost form a ring around the capital. Only the affluent boroughs of Richmond and Kingston along the river to the west prevent the completion of the orange doughnut.

Change in white British population in London between 2001 and 2011

No labelsShow borough names

Inner London saw some places losing the white British population, but quite a number - coloured blue - bucked the trend and recorded an increase.

Even central boroughs that experienced a decline in white British may have seen an increase in the number of white residents. Kensington and Chelsea recorded 17,300 fewer white British residents but the category "white other" now makes up 28% of the local population. The immigrants here are rich white Europeans and Russians.

Tea rooms and restaurants have been replaced by takeaway chicken shops and halal supermarkets serving the new arrivals”

It is a different story in Barking and Dagenham.

The people moving into the borough tend to be of black African heritage. I was introduced to Victor and Victoria, whose parents came to Britain from Ghana in the 50s. He works for London Transport and she is a nurse in the NHS - typical of the professional black families who've arrived from inner London to take advantage of available housing as the borough's white residents leave.

With a time-lapse camera, it would appear that London is pulsing as generations and ethnic groups move up and move out.

On Dagenham's main shopping street, I met a number of white locals who were planning to leave the borough. One male pensioner was hoping to relocate to Clacton - a seaside town on the Essex coast now nicknamed Little Dagenham. A local councillor told me how his parents had sold up and bought a large cottage with a quarter-acre of garden in Lincolnshire. Another woman says she had her eyes set on a little cottage in Leigh-on-Sea near Southend.

Leigh is a particular favourite. Many residents from Barking and Dagenham will have taken the train along the Thames Estuary towards Southend on a work excursion - the old beano to the seaside. Some still do, looking out of the window as the industrial landscape gives way to green fields and open wetlands teeming with birds.

Over the past decade or so, towns along the railway line between Fenchurch St and Shoeburyness have seen significant increases to the white British population. In Westcliff, part of Southend, I met a family who recently cashed in their three-bedroom house in Barking for a six-bedroom home by the sea. They keep bumping into old school friends, realising that they were joining a sizeable population of migrants from the borough.


Polish is the second most common language spoken in England
The years between the last two censuses have witnessed significant cultural change in London, particularly in the outer boroughs. Some white British may have moved because their neighbourhood has been culturally transformed, the tea rooms and restaurants replaced by takeaway chicken shops and halal supermarkets serving the new arrivals.

But there is also a story here of white working class families that escaped from the slums and bombed-out East End in the middle of the last century, found new opportunities in London's outer boroughs and then, in the past decade - often having prospered from the housing boom and the capital's economic growth - cashed in their assets and bought themselves that little cottage in the countryside or by the sea.

It is a story of aspiration. It is a story of success.

SirTallaghtban

Einhard wrote: »

Do you have a link for that? What exactly do you mean by "native Britons"?

Read the article in the first post.

Pherekydes

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Native Britons are a minority in London. Could be Dublin in 20 odd years.

Would you be happy with becoming a minority in your own land?

I'm already in a minority; there's only one of me. Don't pool me together with the eFFers!

Einhard

Why is "native Briton" conflated with "white" in that piece?

Nodin

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Read the article in the first post.

....there's no reference to "native Britons" in the article that I can see.

SirTallaghtban

Nodin wrote: »

How would you define a "native Briton"?

Same criteria used to define native Americans. Or native Australians.

3ndahalfof6

multiculturalism, very very dizzy, still falling.

The King of Moo

woodoo wrote: »

Are they being unreasonable? racist? or do they have a genuine grievance that today's hyper-PC society doesn't allow them voice.

The irony of this, as they write a message that appears publicly instantly on one of the most-visited websites in the world and is available for almost the entire world to see, is amazing.

It's important to listen to these voices, but also to consider what they're based on. I've found that most grievances about immigration and multiculturalism have been out of proportion to the scale of the situation, and sometimes only based on a few isolated experiences.

woodoo

Here are the top rated responses to the article FYI:

ravenmorpheus2k
15 HOURS AGO
Why have the white British left London?
---

They have left because they've been pushed out by migrants.

A few weeks ago we heard of some Islamic "men" castigating a man for not being Muslim, asking if he was gay, and telling him to "get out, this is a Muslim area".

Their exact words were played on the radio so there was no doubt over it.

Time for the govt. to do something about such migrants.



+360
Comment number 1. Spindoctor
16 HOURS AGO
This is probably going to be Moderated off the Boards.

It is my opinion having lived in an area where a large influx of non white British arrived (Asian Pakistani and Bangladeshi) that the White people began to feel they were living in a foreign land and left. I know full well the statistics tell me that only 6% of Bradford is of Asian decent but in some areas you hardly see a white face.



+346
Comment number 49. breadsticks
14 HOURS AGO
Wake up smell the coffe and stop being so PC. I lived in Peckham for 25 years and saw it turn form a nice safe pleasant area to what it became. I got sick of the muggings robberies and moved out, looks like I need to move out further now though
Unfortunately the politicians who espouse the "benefits" of mass immigration do not have to live with it!


Comment number 11. U15622642
15 HOURS AGO
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.



+302
Comment number 3. Spindoctor
16 HOURS AGO
Further to my post #1 Some of the Areas have become very Asian oriented with shops that cater more for Asian people Halal Butchers, Bangladeshi Bakers, Mosques and Temples, local shops that are dominated by Asian foods and spices, and that cater very little for non Asian tastes. Is it any wonder the White people move out? People feel like strangers in the town where they were born.



+293
Comment number 61. Another brick in the wall
13 HOURS AGO
Unfortunately it is impossible to discuss topics like this seriously without being called a racist or breaking house rules. Suffice to say that multiculturalism is not everyone's cup of tea. It is not the colour of peoples skin but their attitudes and beliefs that often make people from other parts of the world difficult to get along with.

I will be interested to see if that gets moderated or not



+291
Comment number 19. Roger Byrne
15 HOURS AGO
The majority of the British ppl dont want immigrants, we dont need most immigrants. Even the immigrants that are here dont want to compete for jobs against yet even more immigrants. This is the reason why UKIP have gone from 4% to 16% of the vote this year. This is likely to go higher next year when the Romanians and Bulgarians arrive. Yet more unskilled workers set against 17% youth unemployment.



+265
Comment number 13. hoeby
15 HOURS AGO
Yep I don't care what colour you are but if you bring a culture of bigotry and non-inclusion we don't want you. I don't care who is leaving the city but for those of us that remain we must fight against extremism and the wave of ignorance that follows it.



+249
Comment number 7. blitzkrieg11
16 HOURS AGO
What's positive about this? You have said nothing more than that white people have moved out of London. This is a sad story of mass displacement - there's no disguising it.



+218
Comment number 16. realisticlogic
15 HOURS AGO
you can remove all the comments your biased moderators claim break the rules.
BUT we still know the real truth.
Just because the gov't has made it illegal to comment about it, dosn't mean its not happening.



+211
Comment number 45. treetop91
14 HOURS AGO
A very sad article,not the subject but the writer and the organisation that seeks to deny the obvious. White flight is very real but to try and dress it up like this is distasteful.Perhaps we need the BBC to relocate out of London altogether for it to understand and listen to the people of Britain ?



+208
Comment number 51. MiKtheBrit
14 HOURS AGO
Another biased pro mass immigration piece from the BBC who claim to represent us, what a laugh. The country has been ruined and continues to get worse. No one is defending our secular culture, it's already too late, strangers in our own country.



+207
Comment number 92. DisgustedOfDeptford
13 HOURS AGO
"...what emerges is a much more positive story..."

I'm sure that spin makes you feel better about the truth, Mr Easton.

Unfortunately, for the tens of thousands of people who have seen their communities changed beyond recognition, who have been pushed to move to the four corners of the nation to find a new home that resembles their country of origin, your spin is more than a tad nauseating.



+200
Comment number 93. Dave
13 HOURS AGO
Would you stay in a town where most of your neighbours are not of your race? Where half of them don't even speak your language? Where the culture is so radically different that you feel like an alien in your own country?

NOR WOULD THESE PEOPLE! Stop making excuses, we all know why these people left the capital. I have enough friends from London who have told me why they left London.



+198
Comment number 89. WhyStandOnASilentPlatform
13 HOURS AGO
Because it is an overpriced, immigrant driven, crime infested hell hole?



+167
Comment number 132. inchindown
13 HOURS AGO
We all know why white people are moving out of London. It's just that nobody will really say what they feel as the post would be deleted.



+157
Comment number 22. endangeredlogic
15 HOURS AGO
When's the BBC going to do some probing journalism to nail down the big demographic issues? What are the shifts in population ethnicity nationwide and regionally? What are the birth-rates for different cultural groups? What's a sustainable UK population size? The consistent failure to provide the public with answers to these questions appears almost conspiratorial.



+146
Comment number 4. Jack Raymond
16 HOURS AGO
Many people regardless of colour or race or ethnicity etc. still have a romanticised view of Britain with its politeness and beautiful green countryside. I'm afraid that's not London, and probably hasn't been for several centuries now. The more 'different' that London becomes from this view of Britain, the more we want to leave it. And I'm not even white.



+145
Comment number 43. Scarlet_Pimpernel
14 HOURS AGO
Now this is one hot potato the BBC doesnt normally like to take out of the oven. Im sure academia has a multitude of nice, safe, printable, explanations. For the reality of life in most British cities, to which Blair/Brown dispersed Labour's great immigration tsunami, well, you have to be living in them to understand..

Einhard

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Same criteria used to define native Americans. Or native Australians.

So a white person, born and bred in Manchester, but whose parents originated from Ireland in the 1870s, would not be considered a native Briton? That's a pretty narrow definition you've got there!!

philologos

Einhard wrote: »

Why is "native Briton" conflated with "white" in that piece?

The UK census distinguishes between White British, and Asian British, Black British and so on. However, it is important to note that just because one may have a certain ethnic heritage it doesn't preclude them from being wholly British in terms of culture and other things. I know loads of people who fall into that criteria in London.

Zillah

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

NCould be Dublin in 20 odd years.

This is incredibly unlikely. We're not the former capital of a worldwide empire.

The King of Moo

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Native Britons are a minority in London. Could be Dublin in 20 odd years.

Would you be happy with becoming a minority in your own land?

That's compared to all other ethnic groups put together. White Britons are still the single largest ethnic group, not that that's a very cohesive group anyway, taking into account the continued importance of class distinctions in Britain, for one, not to mention the huge mix of DNA these white people are made of.

And personally, I don't care about how many people of different skin colours occupy a particular space. Skin colour isn't important to me.

3ndahalfof6

woodoo wrote: »

Here are the top rated responses to the article FYI:

ravenmorpheus2k
15 HOURS AGO
Why have the white British left London?
---

They have left because they've been pushed out by migrants.

A few weeks ago we heard of some Islamic "men" castigating a man for not being Muslim, asking if he was gay, and telling him to "get out, this is a Muslim area".

Their exact words were played on the radio so there was no doubt over it.

Time for the govt. to do something about such migrants.



+360
Comment number 1. Spindoctor
16 HOURS AGO
This is probably going to be Moderated off the Boards.

It is my opinion having lived in an area where a large influx of non white British arrived (Asian Pakistani and Bangladeshi) that the White people began to feel they were living in a foreign land and left. I know full well the statistics tell me that only 6% of Bradford is of Asian decent but in some areas you hardly see a white face.



+346
Comment number 49. breadsticks
14 HOURS AGO
Wake up smell the coffe and stop being so PC. I lived in Peckham for 25 years and saw it turn form a nice safe pleasant area to what it became. I got sick of the muggings robberies and moved out, looks like I need to move out further now though
Unfortunately the politicians who espouse the "benefits" of mass immigration do not have to live with it!


Comment number 11. U15622642
15 HOURS AGO
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.



+302
Comment number 3. Spindoctor
16 HOURS AGO
Further to my post #1 Some of the Areas have become very Asian oriented with shops that cater more for Asian people Halal Butchers, Bangladeshi Bakers, Mosques and Temples, local shops that are dominated by Asian foods and spices, and that cater very little for non Asian tastes. Is it any wonder the White people move out? People feel like strangers in the town where they were born.



+293
Comment number 61. Another brick in the wall
13 HOURS AGO
Unfortunately it is impossible to discuss topics like this seriously without being called a racist or breaking house rules. Suffice to say that multiculturalism is not everyone's cup of tea. It is not the colour of peoples skin but their attitudes and beliefs that often make people from other parts of the world difficult to get along with.

I will be interested to see if that gets moderated or not



+291
Comment number 19. Roger Byrne
15 HOURS AGO
The majority of the British ppl dont want immigrants, we dont need most immigrants. Even the immigrants that are here dont want to compete for jobs against yet even more immigrants. This is the reason why UKIP have gone from 4% to 16% of the vote this year. This is likely to go higher next year when the Romanians and Bulgarians arrive. Yet more unskilled workers set against 17% youth unemployment.



+265
Comment number 13. hoeby
15 HOURS AGO
Yep I don't care what colour you are but if you bring a culture of bigotry and non-inclusion we don't want you. I don't care who is leaving the city but for those of us that remain we must fight against extremism and the wave of ignorance that follows it.



+249
Comment number 7. blitzkrieg11
16 HOURS AGO
What's positive about this? You have said nothing more than that white people have moved out of London. This is a sad story of mass displacement - there's no disguising it.



+218
Comment number 16. realisticlogic
15 HOURS AGO
you can remove all the comments your biased moderators claim break the rules.
BUT we still know the real truth.
Just because the gov't has made it illegal to comment about it, dosn't mean its not happening.



+211
Comment number 45. treetop91
14 HOURS AGO
A very sad article,not the subject but the writer and the organisation that seeks to deny the obvious. White flight is very real but to try and dress it up like this is distasteful.Perhaps we need the BBC to relocate out of London altogether for it to understand and listen to the people of Britain ?



+208
Comment number 51. MiKtheBrit
14 HOURS AGO
Another biased pro mass immigration piece from the BBC who claim to represent us, what a laugh. The country has been ruined and continues to get worse. No one is defending our secular culture, it's already too late, strangers in our own country.



+207
Comment number 92. DisgustedOfDeptford
13 HOURS AGO
"...what emerges is a much more positive story..."

I'm sure that spin makes you feel better about the truth, Mr Easton.

Unfortunately, for the tens of thousands of people who have seen their communities changed beyond recognition, who have been pushed to move to the four corners of the nation to find a new home that resembles their country of origin, your spin is more than a tad nauseating.



+200
Comment number 93. Dave
13 HOURS AGO
Would you stay in a town where most of your neighbours are not of your race? Where half of them don't even speak your language? Where the culture is so radically different that you feel like an alien in your own country?

NOR WOULD THESE PEOPLE! Stop making excuses, we all know why these people left the capital. I have enough friends from London who have told me why they left London.



+198
Comment number 89. WhyStandOnASilentPlatform
13 HOURS AGO
Because it is an overpriced, immigrant driven, crime infested hell hole?



+167
Comment number 132. inchindown
13 HOURS AGO
We all know why white people are moving out of London. It's just that nobody will really say what they feel as the post would be deleted.



+157
Comment number 22. endangeredlogic
15 HOURS AGO
When's the BBC going to do some probing journalism to nail down the big demographic issues? What are the shifts in population ethnicity nationwide and regionally? What are the birth-rates for different cultural groups? What's a sustainable UK population size? The consistent failure to provide the public with answers to these questions appears almost conspiratorial.



+146
Comment number 4. Jack Raymond
16 HOURS AGO
Many people regardless of colour or race or ethnicity etc. still have a romanticised view of Britain with its politeness and beautiful green countryside. I'm afraid that's not London, and probably hasn't been for several centuries now. The more 'different' that London becomes from this view of Britain, the more we want to leave it. And I'm not even white.



+145
Comment number 43. Scarlet_Pimpernel
14 HOURS AGO
Now this is one hot potato the BBC doesnt normally like to take out of the oven. Im sure academia has a multitude of nice, safe, printable, explanations. For the reality of life in most British cities, to which Blair/Brown dispersed Labour's great immigration tsunami, well, you have to be living in them to understand..

All posted by the same person, Comment, so it holds no bearing.

Einhard

philologos wrote: »

The UK census distinguishes between White British, and Asian British, Black British and so on. However, it is important to note that just because one may have a certain ethnic heritage it doesn't preclude them from being wholly British in terms of culture and other things. I know loads of people who fall into that criteria in London.

Yes, it distinguishes between Black British and Asian British, but it doesn't confer Britishness on one ethnic group, as appears to be the case in certain posts here.

Herb Powell

PC Brigade here, please state your emergency

ABajaninCork

You do know there is no such thing as a Native Briton - right?

The White British are a mix of Saxon (German); Viking (Scandinavia); Norman (French); Roman (Italian and others) and yes. Irish (Well Celt anyway!) blood too! Even the Royal Family aren't British by descent. The Queen is essentially German and Phil as we all know is Greek! And he is of Danish descent. It is said that Queen Mary's first language was German. Queen Victoria spoke German to her family.

SirTallaghtban

Einhard wrote: »

So a white person, born and bred in Manchester, but whose parents originated from Ireland in the 1870s, would not be considered a native Briton? That's a pretty narrow definition you've got there!!

Would a white person, born and bred in Arkansas, but whose parents originated from ireland in the 1870s, be considered a native American?

Id define a native briton as someone whose ancestry is British as far back as he can find.

SirTallaghtban

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You do know there is no such thing as a Native Briton - right?

The White British are a mix of Saxon (German); Viking (Scandinavia); Norman (French); Roman (Italian and others) and yes. Irish (Well Celt anyway!) blood too! Even the Royal Family aren't British by descent. The Queen is essentially German and Phil as we all know is Greek! And he is of Danish descent. It is said that Queen Mary's first language was German. Queen Victoria spoke German to her family.

Native britons are purely of northern european descent.

philologos

Einhard wrote: »

Yes, it distinguishes between Black British and Asian British, but it doesn't confer Britishness on one ethnic group, as appears to be the case in certain posts here.

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

That was my point.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You do know there is no such thing as a Native Briton - right?

The White British are a mix of Saxon (German); Viking (Scandinavia); Norman (French); Roman (Italian and others) and yes. Irish (Well Celt anyway!) blood too! Even the Royal Family aren't British by descent. The Queen is essentially German and Phil as we all know is Greek! And he is of Danish descent. It is said that Queen Mary's first language was German. Queen Victoria spoke German to her family.

And there is no such thing as native Irish either as much as some people mightn't like to hear it

The King of Moo

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Would a white person, born and bred in Arkansas, but whose parents originated from ireland in the 1870s, would be considered a native American?

Id define a native briton as someone whose ancestry is British as far back as he can find.

What do you define by British? Are you only going as far back as the Acts of Union?

7 7 12

Cungi wrote: »

Broadening of the gene pool is a good thing

Seems to work well in USA

SirTallaghtban

Zillah wrote: »

This is incredibly unlikely. We're not the former capital of a worldwide empire.

Some electoral wards in dublin already have non Irish people in the majority. The north inner city, for example.

Ditto for parts of Dublin 15 (and that was reported in 2006!).

It is already taking place.

Einhard

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Id define a native briton as someone whose ancestry is British as far back as he can find.

WTF does that even mean? Seriously it's gobbledygook. What you're essentially saying, is that anyone who can trace a foreign ancestor is not British. And that a black person who cannot trace his ancestry beyond the Britain is conclusively British. Are you just making this up as you go along?

Lou.m

I hate monoculturalism a a concept they want everyone to be like them...which is oppressive.

Multiculturalism is a relief.

I HATE the small town tribal mentality..not just in Ireland anywhere.

Native Britons are a minority in London. Could be Dublin in 20 odd years.

Would you be happy with becoming a minority in your own land?

Yes i would be exotic and different. Besides you could argue real Irish culture already is....we speak English...which is not the native tongue so it's already happened.

Roll on multiculturalism.

Irish people move abroad so they must like it.

P_1

+293
Comment number 61. Another brick in the wall
13 HOURS AGO
Unfortunately it is impossible to discuss topics like this seriously without being called a racist or breaking house rules. Suffice to say that multiculturalism is not everyone's cup of tea. It is not the colour of peoples skin but their attitudes and beliefs that often make people from other parts of the world difficult to get along with.

I will be interested to see if that gets moderated or not

+265
Comment number 13. hoeby
15 HOURS AGO
Yep I don't care what colour you are but if you bring a culture of bigotry and non-inclusion we don't want you. I don't care who is leaving the city but for those of us that remain we must fight against extremism and the wave of ignorance that follows it.

You see multiculturism is a two way street.

You can't expect the new culture to conform to how things were done in the 'old country' and similarly you can't impose your culture on new immigrants.

Give and take is needed from both sides

southsiderosie

woodoo wrote: »

I was reading through a piece on white flight from London on the BBC and was struck by the feedback. Much of the feedback is at odds with the writer. So many people seem to against the idea of multiculturalism, mass immigration and ghettoisation and no longer feel at home in some of their larger cities. Are they being unreasonable? racist? or do they have a genuine grievance that today's hyper-PC society doesn't allow them voice.

Multiculturalism, mass immigration and ghettoization are three separate phenomena. What are you actually interested in here: multicultural policy, having a multicultural population, or the emergence of ethnic clusters?

Terrontress

Are additional workers from areas with excess supply wanted during labour shortages wanted? Yes.

Should those who have come here and worked have the same rights ad Irish people who have contributed an equal amount to the economy? Yes.

Should all people, regardless of origin be allowed to practice their culture if it impinges on nobody else? Yes.

southsiderosie

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Some electoral wards in dublin already have non Irish people in the majority. The north inner city, for example.

Ditto for parts of Dublin 15 (and that was reported in 2006!).

It is already taking place.

Immigrants are heavily clustered in some neighborhoods, but they are far from becoming a majority in Dublin.

P_1

Terrontress wrote: »

Are additional workers from areas with excess supply wanted during labour shortages wanted? Yes.

Should those who have come here and worked have the same rights ad Irish people who have contributed an equal amount to the economy? Yes.

Should all people, regardless of origin be allowed to practice their culture if it impinges on nobody else? Yes.

The problem is that the practice of culture is impinging on others, hence one of the reasons behind this so-called 'white flight'.

SirTallaghtban

Lou.m wrote: »

I hate monoculturalism a a concept they want everyone to be like them...which is oppressive.

Multiculturalism is a relief.

I HATE the small town tribal mentality..not just in Ireland anywhere.



Yes i would be exotic and different. Besides you could argue real Irish culture already is....we speak English...which is not the native tongue so it's already happened.

Roll on multiculturalism.

Irish people move abroad so they must like it.

How many Irish people moved to asia, africa or the middle east?

Very few.

Such a logical fallacy. Irish people moved to new world countries, so that means we have to welcome anyone who rocks up here?

Ps- a relatively homogenous society can also be a multicultural society.