Future of Tramore’s Metalman and pillars safe

Cabaal

http://www.thejournal.ie/tramore-metalman-803285-Feb2013/

A new limited company has been established to take ownership of the structures and manage it as a tourism attraction.

This seems a good move, especially establishing a proper walkway to the structures

mike65

Saw that, no mention about the two towers on Brownstown Head though, I presume they are included in the new company.

Sully

I'd have concerns with a private company taking over the Metalman and Brownstown. Any private company for that matter, nothing to do with any of the current business people running it. No doubt they have the best interests for Tramore, but its just not sitting comfortably.

Its an awful shame that the council can't take it over and the state haven't stepped in to take control, its just left slip into private control. Its sad that this is the way our country has gone. What should be in public control or what should be public funded, is now slipping into private control.

Even councils look for private funding to clean the town, add bins, add flowers, and so on.

wellboytoo

I believe there was such a gulf of distrust between landowners and WCC the compromise was what we see today, I have been told this from some of the people involved, sad reflection on WCC.

Sully

wellboytoo wrote: »

I believe there was such a gulf of distrust between landowners and WCC the compromise was what we see today, I have been told this from some of the people involved, sad reflection on WCC.

I was always of the understanding WCC couldn't take it over because they didn't have the budget. The government were asked to step in. This solution is old news now.

blankAs

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

looksee

How would anyone make a business out of it? It would cost more to put barriers round it and have someone charging people than they would make.

Sully

blankAs wrote: »

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

Tramore Tourism wouldn't create a new tourism body that competes with itself. Instead, they decided to take hold of the Metalman and Brownstown Pillars but under a private limited company with businessmen involved that would look after it going forward because (it appears) no public body has any interest. This company would be responsible for maintenance of such, the pathway and so on. But not actively promoting tourism in the town or any other business (I can't say 100% but I would be very surprised if they did).

I also don't think its fair to suggest that tourism bodies are promoting the town out of their own interests. I have been running Discover Tramore for over five years. Its non-commercial and I launched it as a small operation to promote Tramore online. I felt that Tramore is not being promoted as well as it could be and so I set out to do something about that. I'm completely independent and I get absolutely no support or positive thumbs up from other tourism organisations - some of which have said they would prefer I wasn't here.

I don't own a tourism business that can benefit from such an organisation (I doubt tourists would have any interest in getting websites, graphic design or printing done!). I am not doing it for my own interests. I am doing it because this is the town I have grown up in, its a town that I care about and its a town that I want as many people as possible to know just how lovely it is, encourage them to visit and when they do visit I supply them with plenty of tourism material to make their stay a pleasant and enjoyable one.

Just to give an example of the work that goes into Discover Tramore. In 2012 I produced a 16 page holiday brochure, detailed glossy town holiday map, driving guides for dolmen drive, south east coastal drive, copper coast drive and a walking guide of Tramore Beach. There were above 40,000 visitors to our website last year (Jan - Dec) and at present we have nearly 4,000 Facebook Fans (largest for tourism in the town). Delivered regularly to local businesses throughout the season and the brochure is distributed to ferry ports, airports and some tourist offices.

In order to do all this, I work with the majority of local tourism businesses and every year we keep on growing as more businesses join. I extended registration for 2013 until February 28th due to the demand. Its fantastic to see so many businesses paying a small fee for a lot of promotion for their business and for the town for a year.

The more tourism bodies the better. It doubles the efforts of promoting Tramore. I never understood why others didn't see this and objected. In some cases, like my own, it creates employment and boosts the local economy. We have had a number come and go in recent years, some indeed came just for the money but businesses are smart and spent their money wisely.

looksee wrote: »

How would anyone make a business out of it? It would cost more to put barriers round it and have someone charging people than they would make.

I assume the fear is that they will charge tourists for using the walkway. There are a number of ways money can be made from a potential walkway. But the organisation is said to be non-profit. I assume most people just would prefer a public state body like the Office of the Public Works looked after it.

wellboytoo

blankAs wrote: »

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

A blanket negative statement backed up by sweet f a , taking a swipe at good honest people who are getting up off their arse and doing something rather than carping on the internet.

Blankas your a whinger

Psychedelic

blankAs wrote: »

just one more private tourism company in the town. why cant the people and business' of the town work together? since the closure of tramore failte, tourism provision has gone to the dogs. now we rely on private companys run by people with their own interests and no interest in serving the town and the people as a whole, this model is never going to work to the advantage of the town.

I know some of the people involved in this, and they are decent people with the town's best interests at heart and are the only people actually doing anything to try improve things. They live and work here, they raise their kids here. They are not money-hungry tycoons looking to milk the town's assets for personal gain.

This is a great example of local people and businesses working together. The Co. Council wanted nothing to do with the Metalman and only for these people the Metalman would continue to have no access. At least now there is a chance that a proper tourist attraction is developed.

blankAs

why another tourism company though? could there not just be one umbrella tourism company working for the town.....

Sully

Psychedelic wrote: »

I know some of the people involved in this, and they are decent people with the town's best interests at heart and are the only people actually doing anything to try improve things. They live and work here, they raise their kids here. They are not money-hungry tycoons looking to milk the town's assets for personal gain.

This is a great example of local people and businesses working together. The Co. Council wanted nothing to do with the Metalman and only for these people the Metalman would continue to have no access. At least now there is a chance that a proper tourist attraction is developed.

Ah now that's a little harsh. There not the only people with the towns interest at heart. You don't need to be a member of Tramore Tourism to be passionate about the town and want to improve it.

blankAs wrote: »

why another tourism company though? could there not just be one umbrella tourism company working for the town.....

As I said, its not another tourism company. I assume its not being put under Tramore Tourism because they felt an independent body should be looking after it and the money that it could possibly generate.

Psychedelic

Point taken Sully, I forgot about Tidy Towns, your Discover Tramore, a few others too. It goes without saying too that most of us living in the town have the town's best interests at heart and we all want to see things improve.

As I understand it, and I don't know too much about company law, but this new company is non-profit so no director of the company can legally earn income through the company, and any profit made would be retained in the company. I think it also makes sense for Tramore Tourism to keep the Metalman separate to their own organisation from a finance and administration point of view.

wellboytoo

Psychedelic wrote: »

Point taken Sully, I forgot about Tidy Towns, your Discover Tramore, a few others too. It goes without saying too that most of us living in the town have the town's best interests at heart and we all want to see things improve.

As I understand it, and I don't know too much about company law, but this new company is non-profit so no director of the company can legally earn income through the company, and any profit made would be retained in the company. I think it also makes sense for Tramore Tourism to keep the Metalman separate to their own organisation from a finance and administration point of view.

Agreed but as I said previously this was just a vehicle to solve the impasse that has prevailed for thirty years +, total distrust of the Council, I have some experience of it as i was involved in painting them a few years ago and had no difficulties with getting permission to go in there from the landowners, the opposite in fact, wheras the Council cost us a lot of money with their need of engineering reports et al..

Tramore Tourism

Below is the Statement released by Tramore Tourism.

Tramore Tourism has moved to clarify its stance in relation to the transfer of ownership of the Metalman and its pillars.



“Following the announcement that The Metalman of Tramore and the pillars on opposite headlands will transfer into private ownership, Tramore Tourism has moved to inform the public on the work that is being done to preserve the sacred pillars. The Metalman (and pillars) are currently owned by Irish Lights who are the authority primarily responsible for ships navigation in Irish waters. Due to advancements in technology, Irish Lights no longer considers these structures usable navigational aids and are keen to dispose of them to more suitable custodians.

The Metalman had been offered to Waterford County Council but they declined to take ownership due to budgetary constraints and problems with access to the structures. The long standing problem is that the pillars are on private property and currently there is no legal access or right away to the pillars.

Tramore Tourism was then encouraged to engage with Irish Lights to take ownership. With the support of Failte Ireland, the County Council, and the Mayor of Tramore, a continual effort was and is being made to develop the Metalman as an accessible part of the towns’ landscape and an attraction that will bolster civic pride for the whole county. This effort involves creating a safe walkway from Newtown Cove to the Metalman (a distance of approximately 900 meters) that would be the jewel in the crown of a local heritage trail extending from the Metalman to the sand dunes taking in all the maritime, cultural, and natural heritage of Tramore.

Even though Tramore Tourism is already an established non profit group, a specific legal entity was needed to receive and manage the structures. A separate limited company had therefore been established to deal with the transfer of ownership- Tramore Heritage Limited. This sub-committee, which currently has seven directors, all of whom are active members of Tramore Tourism, is registered as a “non profit” company to manage these monuments of national, historic and cultural importance.

Neither Tramore Tourism nor Tramore Heritage Ltd has any intention of selling these structures nor will any directors receive any personal profit from their management. In regards to the image and symbol of the Metalman which is widely used by local businesses and in many photographic and printed materials, the committee has said it encourages this in “strengthening the link to our rich past and to increase our pride and sense of place”.

Once we have resolved the access with the landowners, we are confident that this will be a game changer for Tramore greatly increasing visitor numbers throughout the year creating more jobs whilst bolstering civic pride in Tramore and Waterford people. It will be a compliment to the already successful walks throughout the county and other heritage tourism attractions in the Southeast such as the hugely successful Viking Triangle.

A public campaign will soon be underway in Tramore and Waterford to gain support through a “Friends of the Metalman” program. The aim is to secure the necessary funding needed to develop the walk to the Metalman and other elements of a heritage trail.

blankAs

so this friends of the metal man, what will this entail? will this be yet another fundraising campaign?

Sully

blankAs wrote: »

so this friends of the metal man, what will this entail? will this be yet another fundraising campaign?

That's what the statement says it will do. Its the only way they are going to fund it unless the businessmen part of the private company who are "active Tramore tourism members" fund it themselves.

Also, when you say 'yet another fundraising campaign' - what other fundraiser campaigns have been done for the benefit of the town? I don't recall any - this is the first. Its not uncommon (though a sad state of affairs) for the council to seek private funding for the town maintenance, but this is a tad different. The council can't afford it and it appears the state were not put under any pressure to take it so a private company stepped up to see if they could work out a deal with the owner and fund via the public a walkway.

Psychedelic

blankAs wrote: »

so this friends of the metal man, what will this entail? will this be yet another fundraising campaign?

Have a listen:
http://www.wlrfm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=175029&Itemid=1008

mike65

They need to promote the "hop three times round the metal man and you'll be married within the year" legend. Radio (or Nationwide) loves that sort of thing.

Sully

mike65 wrote: »

They need to promote the "hop three times round the metal man and you'll be married within the year" legend. Radio (or Nationwide) loves that sort of thing.

Agreed. There is a lot to Tramore that is untouched in terms of marketing it. This particular gem is part of the Discover Tramore marketing plan for the year.

blankAs

When i say yet another fundraising campaign, im mean yet another fundraising campaign.
This town is saturated by fundraising campaigns for a variety of issues . There are campaigns out there with some fantastic people with great ideas but unfortunately this is making it difficult for others who are trying to fundraise. i know everyone its stretched to the limit financially at the moment but very worthy places and issues that desperately need funds are being passed over and being told 'sorry no, we cant help as we are already funding x,y and z.

so to see yet another fundraising campaign in aid of 3 stone pillars( yes their great and historic but this is a project that is best suited to boom times when money is flung around) it would be an almighty shame when there are people in this town who cant afford to eat, who forgo their portion of intervention rice so as their children might feel full, heat their homes, suffer as they cant afford the doctor or dentist, pay for the extra things in schools such as swimming, pay for childcare to allow them to go to a course or to work.
im not talking out of my hole here, this is going on in our town and there isnt the funds available to help, fix or even just alleviate these problems.
what gets me though is helping inistoige puppys when there are many people suffering within 500 metres of all of us.....

Psychedelic

There is plenty of support available for people who can't afford basic food and heat such as social welfare, children's allowance, Meals On Wheels, St Vincent de Paul, loads of other charities etc.

There will always be people in need, and even more so for as long as this recession lasts, but we shouldn't just stop all fundraisers because of that, otherwise we would never do fundraisers.

And who are the "people in this town who cant afford to eat, who forgo their portion of intervention rice...." ??? Do they not get social welfare, medical cards, rent allowance and other benefits?

blankAs

you want names and addresses of people as proof?!
You make me laugh when you say there is social welfare for that, these payments are not enough to meet the needs of a family for a whole week. meals on wheels is for old people and the svp is quite selective as to who they will help. people in this town are suffering, and suffering badly, worse still children are being affected. children are going to school hungry with no lunches and the schools are not stepping in to help, nobody is realy.
not everybody is entitled to a medical card and in order to get rent allowance you must live in pebble beach or somewhere else that costs e400. try find accomidation in this town that you would be eligible for rent allowance and then somewhere that will accept rent allowance. And please could you tell me what are these other benefits that you speak of??
There is massive poverty in this town alongside massive unemployment, if you are so far removed from this reality, then how very lovely it must be to live in this bubble. Talk to some people who are involved in social care provision or education in this town and you will be painted a bleak and dark picture. take your head out of the sand and look around you.
while i would welcome the metalman being accessable to all, i would not welcome a fundraising campaign for three stone pillars, this project would only benefit a select few, if any realy.

Sully

In all walks of live, in every single town and county of our beautiful country, you will have fundraisers for various different things. There are many organisations and charities that are seeking donations for different things - for the poor, for the sick, for the disabled, for the seriously ill, for animals of different types, for heritage, the church, voluntary ambulance and so on. The people can decide what, if any, they donate to. Nobody is forcing their hand to donate for our heritage and its just another example of a public service seeking private funds to continue.

It might be an idea to look at the potential positives in your posts rather than only negative. I'm not one bit happy this is going into private ownership regardless of its commercial status. I also think its wishful thinking that the public will donate in such large numbers for our heritage. Its also a shame that it wasn't mentioned to myself who has bent over backwards, despite some stiff opposition, to promote Tramore. But hey, whats the alternative? If Irish Lights don't want it, the council don't want it and nobody is going to apply pressure on the government - what else do we do? It has potential, and while not a game changer for Tramore, it has potential to be a lovely addition and a beautiful tourist attraction if done right.

If we focus on the negatives in life, we won't get anywhere. I can vouch for that!

Psychedelic

blankAs wrote: »

you want names and addresses of people as proof?!
You make me laugh when you say there is social welfare for that, these payments are not enough to meet the needs of a family for a whole week. meals on wheels is for old people and the svp is quite selective as to who they will help. people in this town are suffering, and suffering badly, worse still children are being affected. children are going to school hungry with no lunches and the schools are not stepping in to help, nobody is realy.
not everybody is entitled to a medical card and in order to get rent allowance you must live in pebble beach or somewhere else that costs e400. try find accomidation in this town that you would be eligible for rent allowance and then somewhere that will accept rent allowance. And please could you tell me what are these other benefits that you speak of??
There is massive poverty in this town alongside massive unemployment, if you are so far removed from this reality, then how very lovely it must be to live in this bubble. Talk to some people who are involved in social care provision or education in this town and you will be painted a bleak and dark picture. take your head out of the sand and look around you.
while i would welcome the metalman being accessable to all, i would not welcome a fundraising campaign for three stone pillars, this project would only benefit a select few, if any realy.

I didn't ask for names & addresses, I'll take your word for it. I just don't understand how there is massive poverty like you say, nobody should be going without food, and if they are then they should be entitled to all the benefits like social welfare, medical cards, rent allowance/social housing, fuel allowance, children's allowance, back to school allowance.....

Are these people all in massive debt or something? Or is there a variety of reasons why they are in poverty?

mike65

Lads this really is way off topic!

When I win the euromillions I'll take them over and open a concession stand with plastic Metal Mans. Should be a hit. Maybe someone should do that anyway Or "visit the Metal man and get a free round of pitch and putt". Okay maybe not.

Brick Session

Sully wrote: »

Also, when you say 'yet another fundraising campaign' - what other fundraiser campaigns have been done for the benefit of the town? I don't recall any - this is the first.

Sully perhaps you are too young to remember when every household in Tramore was asked to contribute to the funding of Splashworld, in fact we used to joke that when they would knock on my door collecting for a swimming pool that we would give them a bucket of water . But anyway it has been done before. My only gripe with that was that while the people of Tramore were asked to pay for this "wonderful" public swimming pool, an awful lot of the people who live in Tramore and contributed to the building of Splashworld can't afford the admission prices to get in. Yes, I know they have a loyalty card blaa blaa blaa.

My point is this, if a fundraising campaign is held and the people of Tramore are asked to contribute to the Metal Man etc, then don't price those people out of it when it comes to admission.

I wish you the best of luck with it and yes Tramore is a gem that could be a tourist haven if marketed properly and lost its image of just being an amusement park and another overpriced and dated seaside town. Oh and hopefully we will get our wonderful Guillamene restored in time as well.

I wish you well with it.

tbayers

Sully are you still proposed to the new group taking over the the proposed new heritage trail, giving that it has been pointed out in numerous media outlets that its a non profit organisation?? Just wondering as this post is pretty old and a lot has happened since!

BlankAs, again i reiterate that without proposals like the proposed heritage trail out to the metal man, Tramore wont move forward at all. This might improve visitor numbers and in turn might increase the amount of people working in the tourist industry in Tramore. That way the kids that are going hungry to school might have a job in the future!!

blankAs

why not deal with the problem at hand and feed the hungry children and adults in the community instead of having them hanging around, malnourished, waiting for a job that might never come?

invalid

blankAs wrote: »

why not deal with the problem at hand and feed the hungry children and adults in the community instead of having them hanging around, malnourished, waiting for a job that might never come?

Nothing like a bit of hysteria and scaremongering when you have no other argument. You talk of things which are happening as the rule, not the exception they are. There are near 10,000 odd (some very :-) ) people in this town and unless you are a CWO you really haven't a clue what you are talking about.

I'm from Tramore, I live here, i raise my family here and but i work in the city. I never intend living anywhere else.

I applaude the moving of the 5 towers to local ownership and i wish it every success. To progress this project will require the drive and energy of a dedicated group. The last place the towers should reside is with the Council, and i am the last one to bash the council, but it is simply the wrong place for a specialist project like this. They do not have the time or resources to possibly bring this project to fruition, especially at the, moment when the merger has paralyzed the organization completely.

Sully

tbayers wrote: »

Sully are you still proposed to the new group taking over the the proposed new heritage trail, giving that it has been pointed out in numerous media outlets that its a non profit organisation?? Just wondering as this post is pretty old and a lot has happened since!

BlankAs, again i reiterate that without proposals like the proposed heritage trail out to the metal man, Tramore wont move forward at all. This might improve visitor numbers and in turn might increase the amount of people working in the tourist industry in Tramore. That way the kids that are going hungry to school might have a job in the future!!

Proposed to the new group? Not sure I follow what you mean? But at a guess, ill state that I support the initiative in principal by the only group involved in this since 2009 to get it up and running. I think its an absolutely fantastic idea, and I am disappointed some are completely stonewall against it and I am disappointed its only now really reaching the public domain and it hasn't been very open. I'm disappointed with the way both sides of this debate have 'performed' on social media, with some throwing in some very low personal attacks. It seems if you don't agree with one side, your just attacked for not supporting their view. To be frank, I think most people haven't a clue even those who say they do.

I fully agree with those who are simply pointing out facts, or at least, what appears to be facts. There are concerns and the councilors want to go back to the body to address them are not having much luck. There are a small number of individuals who did research and are asking questions. Its right to be asking questions and its right we are 100% sure on our approach to handing over such an important part our heritage.

I think its safe to say this group will make a profit, eventually. There will be excess where they have money left over after spending it on insurance, maintenance, and other associated costs. I understand why they are pushing that message though but no harm in being honest.

There were a number of big questions at the town council. It turns out they voted against this in February, but its back on the table again for a third time after the last vote was postponed. I was surprised the kid Jack didn't turn up after he setup the Voice of The Metal Man page with 'support' but the way the page was run and handled was completely wrong so I guess he decided to shy away from it as the page has, thankfully, died.

The issues people have with this is mostly related to the memorandum of understanding which states that officers can be paid and that assets potentially could be sold. One councilor, Cllr. Power, got legal advise which stated that the group were unlikely to get non profit status as a result of this and confirming that a protected structure can still be sold as a result of this structure. It was asked why the town council didn't get legal advise, of which there was no reply (though Mayor Conway seemed to indicate it would be mentioned later in the meeting). She pointed out that the way this is being done is not similar to other public structures around Ireland. It was also asked that the council buy the land and lease it instead.

The council was split on the letter of support, but it was passed by one vote to send a letter of support to hand over the pillars. Its now up to the County Council to give the final nod of approval and both sides are already claiming victory which is amusing! Tramore Tourism have this in the bag though, they have the support and they will proceed and try finish the job.

If they are successful in getting the land, and all the money to do what they have plans for, I hope its more open and transparent and not just up to themselves to do the jobs. I really do hope the issues people have are addressed, but I don't remain hopeful. I think if we had most educated people on the matter in support, we would be on the pigs back and it would be great news for Tramore.