Relationship Finance - what is fair?

Mr. Blank

Hey guys, I really need some advice in a situation I am in. I meet a girl a few months ago. We really like each other and things are going really well. She asked me to move in and i suggested we give it a trail and see how things go?She comes from a well to do family and has money. She is looked after. Me not so much, I come from a working class back ground. I have to rely on myself.

I graduated from college last year and I have got my first job- its part time and it doesn't pay a lot. I drive and I have college loans so what ever I earn goes towards paying bills. I can just about meet my living expenses if i don't spend money on going out. I am currently setting up a small business.

My girlfriend works part-time too, she has a practice. She inherited her house she lives in so she doesn't pay any rent/mortgage.

My question is - what is fair to contribute if i decide to move in?

My judgement tells me that contributing towards the bills 50% is fair. Including all costs of living, food, electricity, internet,phone, bins and TV.

Today she asked me for more than that, saying I was saving money by living with her because I didn't have to pay rent. Which is true, I would save a fair amount of money. I asked her what the money would be going towards considering she wasn't paying rent/mortgage and I am giving 50% towards bills. She replied more money towards her own expenses, i.e. paying for her car etc.

My gut feeling is this is unfair, I have to pay those private expenses also and I do not earn as much as her. But I am saving money by living with her.

What should I do?

I am broke and I want to be able to save some money catch up on my debts, but I don't want to be unfair either. Whats the right thing to do? what is fair?

coffee_cake

Mr. Blank wrote: »

Today she asked me for more than that,

She is absolutely taking the p!ss.
If you split it any way other than 50/50, it should be based on your relative incomes. Tell her to cop herself on, you're not there to bankroll her lifestyle

tell that ho to sling her hook

stargazer 68

Mr. Blank wrote: »

Today she asked me for more than that, saying I was saving money by living with her because I didn't have to pay rent. Which is true, I would save a fair amount of money. I asked her what the money would be going towards considering she wasn't paying rent/mortgage and I am giving 50% towards bills. She replied more money towards her own expenses, i.e. paying for her car etc.

Shes taking the p*** Op. Thats not a relationship - thats a lodger. If you are moving in with her then its because you want to live together and not because she is saving you money.

You are only together a few months so think very carefully before you do this because I imagine it will only get worse!

Gee_G

Yeah I think this is bull OP.
At the beginning of our relationship before we moved in together,I would have been happy to think I could have saved my partner a lot of money on rent by moving in to my house that I had inherited and wasn't paying a penny for. 50% is plenty to pay towards household bills. I think you should discuss this with your girlfriend again.

Boombastic

50% of bills seems fair. Is she just asking you to move in as an extra stream of income for herself or because she see's the relationship going somewhere?

ElleEm

You only met her a few months ago and she wants you to move in with her so she can make money off you? She should not be making a profit from you.
She is well and truly taking the p!ss.

To be honest, if I was you, I would continue to stay where I am. By the sounds of it, she has gotten so used to being "looked after" (as you say) that she is expecting you to do the same.

It sounds like she is a bit of a spolit princess.

Sadderday

I wonder if she realises how lucky she is!!!!!!

the money you saved on rent could have went towards the odd break away for you both if she used her head...

Sounds like she is stingy and expects cash from you rather than a loving, comfortable live in relationship

Doesnt sound like the moving in idea is for the right reasons. share the bills if one earns more than the other chip in a bit when times are hard

sounds like a disaster waiting to happen

Toto Wolfcastle

Ah jaysus. That's terrible. Even if she agreed to a normal arrangement of bills split in half I'd be thinking twice about moving in with her. If this is happening after a few months it doesn't bode well for the future.

tipptopper

Run a mile op in my opinion, life as been a cosy ride for her so far it seems and she is expecting it to stay that way. If she is like this after a few months I couldn’t imagine it getting any better if she is making demands already.

50% of the bills is a fair split in anyone’s language, you’re not there to fund her lifestyle as well. You’ll need to speak to her again I think but thread carefully before you darken that door with your suitcase.Good luck either way

Sadderday

if she is loaded and wants to milk you........ why dont you go all sweetness on her a'ss, tell her you love her, marry her someday blah blah blah no cash right now.... talk her into letting you move in sharing bills 50% ...... stay a few months, milk it, save a bit on the sly to help towards your own situation, you might come home to a couple of home made dinners enjoy the free gaff for a while and then just leggit

clint_silver

As you can guage from above, she's just wrong on this one.

Are you saving money? well yes, but you didnt move in with her to save money and she didnt ask you in to make money. A fair non marital relationship is one where bills are split. not one where money is made. She may argue that youre making money by not paying rent elsewhere, but it doesn't work that way. it just doesn't.

If you explain this and she still doesnt see it then Id be gone. the relationship is doomed as shes obviously got some mental block on reality.

then again, if you agree to it then ask her for some sort of tenancy agreement. Also, while rent-a-room lodgers have far less rights then full tenants you now have no obligation to fix anything or pay for anything, say a new kettle for example so if she turns round and says lets buy some paint for downstairs hall, sorry love, thats your responsibility, thats what I pay rent for.

Mr. Blank

Thanks Guys, I really appreciate your comments/advice, I really like this girl and i want things to work maybe these are some troubling signs about what is to follow. Thanks for taking the time to write, I have a lot to think about.

Evenstevens

On the surface it looks like she is completely in the wrong but the only thing I could think of from her perspective is that maybe she thinks you're only moving in because it's free essentially. Maybe she's afraid that's your only reason for moving in is that there is no rent and asking you to contribute more is just a way of seeing that there might be more of a commitment from your side. Just my two cents.

If that's not the case then her making a profit from you stinks.

Sadderday

with all due respect OP, this is your side... hers may differ. She may feel that it makes financial sense for you to live together and is making it known to you that your not getting a free ride (no pun intended) she may have had men abusing her financial circumstances previously. She may just want you to show that you intend on making an effort to contribute to building a home together.

If you do really like her, could this be feasible?

coffee_cake

Sadderday wrote: »

with all due respect OP, this is your side... hers may differ. She may feel that it makes financial sense for you to live together and is making it known to you that your not getting a free ride (no pun intended) she may have had men abusing her financial circumstances previously. She may just want you to show that you intend on making an effort to contribute to building a home together.

If you do really like her, could this be feasible?

Asking him to move in then demanding more than 50/50 is abusing his circumstances, it's not excusable

wolfpawnat

Exit stage left OP. 50/50 bills is more than fair, but paying for her lifestyle, good luck missis. If she wants a car, the Princess should pay for it herself. As others have said, she is trying to treat you as a lodger if she wants you to pay extra.

Sadderday

bluewolf wrote: »

Asking him to move in then demanding more than 50/50 is abusing his circumstances, it's not excusable

Fair point.... but trying to understand the girl and her way of thinking

wolfpawnat

Sadderday wrote: »

Fair point.... but trying to understand the girl and her way of thinking

Her POV: half the bills paid, plus my own shít, so I have more disposable income ............Score!!!

Yeah, not really worth it IMO.

iba

If she charges you rent you will be able to claim some tax allowance on this.

Also she will have to file a tax return each year for rooms let under the Rent-a-room scheme.

Or if she is saying it is a contribution to the house, you will then have rights on the house if you break-up or the house is sold some time down the line. Actually, I think that you may even get some of these rights even if you dont pay her 'rent' after you have been living together for a certain amount of time.

So you could give her the money but keep an account of everything you give her and then if you break-up you can claim a stake of the house.

The Cool

50% of bills is fair.

If she wants extra money from you, ask her for a rental agreement. You'd essentially be a lodger. Feck that. Moving in together is a big enough adjustment without there being, I suppose, imbalance of authority. You should be moving in together because you are a couple and want to, not to cover her living expenses. This is a life step, not a business/ financial venture.

bbbbb

I'm not sure I agree with most posters here, and I think how you've framed your original post tilts the perspective a little.
- you say she is 'looked after', which suggests she gets money from else where. However I think all you mean is that she has inherited a house?
- you can just about meet expenses. Is this with paying rent now, or will it still be the case when you're living 'rent free'?

I think it's reasonable to split bills 50/50 and ask for some rent.
I would expect this to be reduced given that you're living together and that your financial circumstances are tight at the moment (what she does or doesn't pay in a mortgage is irrelevant).

From her perspective she might want to make sure you are not a freeloader (at least in the early stages of the relationship).

I would offer to pay a token rent, given your current financial situation (maybe half what you're paying currently?).
Say the savings you make will be used to pay off your loans earlier, and you can review the rent situation when your finances improve?

Balmed Out

I disagree with all other posters bar one, I dont see anything wrong with paying ones parents rent if living with them and i wouldnt see anything wrong with paying a girlfriend rent if i lived in her house. You have only known her a few months it would be a very different story if ye were going out a few years and were engaged or whatever.

To those who thiink shes been unfair if you paid youre parents rent and they cleared their mortgage would you feel you should no longer pay rent? If you moved in with a friend who owned a property would you feel any necessity in paying rent to them?

Boombastic

There is a different dynamic between your relationship with your parents and friends than there is with your lover

Mr. Blank

I think I have been quite clear and fair in my description of the situation. I certainly wasn't trying to "tilt" the perspective, that wouldn't be productive in seeking advice.

What I meant by "looked after" is pretty much what it say's, my girlfriend is well looked after, I don't feel the need to go into massive detail but she won't have to worry about money ever, she is quite comfortable.

I think both our financial situation are both relavent in this situation because it's a dilemma relating to personal finances, so if she has a solid income with little expenses and I have a small income with more expenses I think this is very relavent in terms of paying rent.

When I say I can just about meet my expenses I mean including rent of course. Right now I am paying rent where I am staying. But my household bills are quite low, my girlfriends are quite high, so even though I would be saving money by moving in, it wouldn't be a huge amount and if I were to pay rent also I would have nothing at all. It would how ever be something if i could save and it would help me out a lot and give me some breathing space. But just about. bbbbb i do think you have a fair point in terms of her perspective. But she has been with me long enough to witness my character and she did ask me to move in knowing my exact financial situation. I don't think she views me as freeloader. But I can certainly agree with your point.

Anyway we both spoke about it and she agreed that 50% was quite fair, but maybe giving her a token rent would be a good idea as a jester of faith. But I should also make the point, my girlfriend is already planning our summer holiday so believe me what ever I save will be going strait back into our relationship.

Thank you everyone for your comments, I really appreciate them all and they have helped me gain some perspective on the situation.

Thud

From another perspective by moving in with her you have 500(or whatever rent was a month) extra disposable income a month, if you offer her half of that you are both 250 a month better off from the arrangement.

In long run if things work out the arrangement might change, if things dont work out neither of ye will feel hard done by

RoseBlossom

Mr. Blank wrote: »

My judgement tells me that contributing towards the bills 50% is fair. Including all costs of living, food, electricity, internet,phone, bins and TV.

Today she asked me for more than that, saying I was saving money by living with her because I didn't have to pay rent. Which is true, I would save a fair amount of money.

...

But I am saving money by living with her.

Don't forget that she is saving money by you moving in with her too.

Okay, there will be an increase in some household expenses (e.g. more hot water being used etc.), but the overall costs won't double, so by splitting the bills with you she will save a fair amount each month, which she would have to pay anyway (e.g. UPC doesn't double just because two people are in the house!).

pwurple

iba wrote: »

If she charges you rent you will be able to claim some tax allowance on this.

Also she will have to file a tax return each year for rooms let under the Rent-a-room scheme.

Or if she is saying it is a contribution to the house, you will then have rights on the house if you break-up or the house is sold some time down the line. Actually, I think that you may even get some of these rights even if you dont pay her 'rent' after you have been living together for a certain amount of time.

So you could give her the money but keep an account of everything you give her and then if you break-up you can claim a stake of the house.

You're out of date on these. No tax allowance for renting since it was abolished in 2008. There is a tax return, but she will be exempt.

ahnowbrowncow

pwurple wrote: »

You're out of date on these. No tax allowance for renting since it was abolished in 2008. There is a tax return, but she will be exempt.

Tax credits for rent haven't been abolished since 2008, they've been reducing with the aim of abolishing it in 2018.

Gatica

agree with most posters that bills have to be split 50/50. Maybe she just phrased it badly, i.e. wants you to contribute a rent-like payment towards living there in addition to 50% of the bills. That makes more sense than telling someone to pay, say, 70% of the bills, even if the overall total amount is the same.
I'm glad you've talked about this, but make sure that you're both on the same page as to what represents what.
Remember though that if you're moving in without any written rental agreement, or tax credit for yourself/her paying a rental income tax, that you're basically at her mercy. If you break-up down the line, she could throw you out on your ear and you'd have no recourse (correct me if I'm wrong), unless you can prove you were a tenant. If you're a tenant then she'd be obliged to give you certain amount of notice to move out.
It wouldn't be unfair of her to ask you for rent, even if you are in a relationship, but she should be up-front about it and just call a spade a spade, rather than trying to spin this into "you'll be saving money" (even if that's the case). She doesn't need to tell you what she'll be using the extra rental income for, and to be honest if I were you, I'd rather not know than her telling me it's to subsidise her car repayments. That just reeks of profiteering-off-your-friends.
On the other hand if you're living together as a couple, i.e. basically sharing the same bed and paying the same bills, you'd also have rights as a cohabiting partner some years down the line.

tatli_lokma

OP - if you really like her and potentially see a future with her, why not compromise? As another poster pointed out, she is also better off in having you there as overall the bills she once paid on her own are now being shared with another person.

It might be as others said, she does want you to move in, but after the first flush of romance and excitement, someone might have put the idean in her head that you are perhaps only moving in cos it's financially a better deal for you.

You are both saving a few quid by living together, so why not open a joint account, agree on a set amount each month, and from the money you each save, you EACH put that amount into the joint account. Get an account without laser/debit cards, and maybe even get an account which requires both signatories for withdrawals so that you can both feel confident about it. Each put the same amount in each month. Then use the saved money for things you do together (i.e. not on home improvements, but maybe holidays, meals out, concerts etc). In a few years if you are still together this money could be used towards your wedding.


In fairness to the girl, she is getting slated here and criticised, but to be honest, I worry about this relationship - not due to her, but due to the fact that you are moving in with someone and at the first instance where an adult discussion needs to be had, you run to a forum, insinuate that your GF is a tight b!tch and a pampered princess and ask for strangers advice on how to handle the situation. I'd be more inclined to tell her to run a mile, rather than you. It makes me wonder myself what your motivations are for moving in with her if you are not comfortable having a conversation with her about these kinds of matters???