Relationship Finance - what is fair?

Aye Bosun

Really, you think you can move in somewhere and not pay rent, regardless of who you are moving in with? The word freeloader comes to mind here OP

Your girlfriend is protecting her assets, if she does not charge you rent and you co-habit after a certain period of time you have a claim to that property under the family home act and as such she cannot remove you or sell the place without your permission as it is regarded as you family home also. It's none of your business what she is going to use the money for, there is plenty of expenses involved in owning a house.

I'm a single girl, who owns my own house and there is zero chance i would allow a boyfriend move in and not contribute to rent and bills.

My view on this would change if you guys had a shared bank account and where engaged and planning a shared future together, up until that point 'what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours'.

westies4ever

Mr. Blank wrote: »

Hey guys, I really need some advice in a situation I am in. I meet a girl a few months ago. We really like each other and things are going really well. She asked me to move in and i suggested we give it a trail and see how things go?She comes from a well to do family and has money. She is looked after. Me not so much, I come from a working class back ground. I have to rely on myself.

I graduated from college last year and I have got my first job- its part time and it doesn't pay a lot. I drive and I have college loans so what ever I earn goes towards paying bills. I can just about meet my living expenses if i don't spend money on going out. I am currently setting up a small business.

My girlfriend works part-time too, she has a practice. She inherited her house she lives in so she doesn't pay any rent/mortgage.

My question is - what is fair to contribute if i decide to move in?

My judgement tells me that contributing towards the bills 50% is fair. Including all costs of living, food, electricity, internet,phone, bins and TV.

Today she asked me for more than that, saying I was saving money by living with her because I didn't have to pay rent. Which is true, I would save a fair amount of money. I asked her what the money would be going towards considering she wasn't paying rent/mortgage and I am giving 50% towards bills. She replied more money towards her own expenses, i.e. paying for her car etc.

My gut feeling is this is unfair, I have to pay those private expenses also and I do not earn as much as her. But I am saving money by living with her.

What should I do?

I am broke and I want to be able to save some money catch up on my debts, but I don't want to be unfair either. Whats the right thing to do? what is fair?

run. run far away as fast as your legs will carry you. imagine what it will be like further down the line. 50% of bills and expenses is fair and nothing else.

D3PO

Gatica wrote: »

Remember though that if you're moving in without any written rental agreement, or tax credit for yourself/her paying a rental income tax, that you're basically at her mercy. If you break-up down the line, she could throw you out on your ear and you'd have no recourse (correct me if I'm wrong), .

wrong under the civil partnerships bill the OP would be better not to sign a rental agreement becasue if they end up splitting after living together for 5 years he will have certain financial entitlements including a possible claim on part of the property.

this might be why his girlfriend wants some kind of rent payment. Yes its a bit much given nobody should enter a relationship thinking it will fail etc but by her getting some level of rent it insulates her in some way.

coffee_cake

Aye Bosun wrote: »

I'm a single girl, who owns my own house and there is zero chance i would allow a boyfriend move in and not contribute to rent and bills.

He's already said he would pay 50% of bills
I am not sure what you mean by "contribute to rent" considering you have no rent, so it's more like "if he didn't pay me rent" which would make him a tenant/lodger

D3PO

Aye Bosun wrote: »

Really, you think you can move in somewhere and not pay rent, regardless of who you are moving in with? The word freeloader comes to mind here OP

Your girlfriend is protecting her assets, if she does not charge you rent and you co-habit after a certain period of time you have a claim to that property under the family home act and as such she cannot remove you or sell the place without your permission as it is regarded as you family home also. It's none of your business what she is going to use the money for, there is plenty of expenses involved in owning a house.

I'm a single girl, who owns my own house and there is zero chance i would allow a boyfriend move in and not contribute to rent and bills.

My view on this would change if you guys had a shared bank account and where engaged and planning a shared future together, up until that point 'what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours'.

totally agree with this (although calling the op a freeloader is a bit OTT) apart from the fact its the civil partnership act not the family home act

sounds serile and very unromantic but in fairness she is entitled to protect her assets. Im sure that with discussion said rent and bills would still leave the OP in a better financial situation.

Merkin

She's bloody right asking you for rent. Do you just expect to live there rent free? I suggest that you offer to pay her half rent you currently pay.Not to do so suggests you are a freeloader.You actually sound resentful that she's from a comfortable background.

Aye Bosun

bluewolf wrote: »

He's already said he would pay 50% of bills
I am not sure what you mean by "contribute to rent" considering you have no rent, so it's more like "if he didn't pay me rent" which would make him a tenant/lodger

Her financial situation is none of the OP's business, as I said that changes once they have a shared bank account or are engaged but up until that point he needs to pay his way just like if he lived anywhere else, 50/50 bills and rent, it's simple really!

coffee_cake

Well if she is living in a house with no mortgage or rent, then asking him to pay her rent IS treating him like a tenant
Especially if you ask him to move in so you can charge him rent!!

tatli_lokma

As Aye Bosun & D3PO point out - regardless of her having no mortgage/rent to pay, it would be wise for her to still get OP to pay some form of rent in order for her to protect her assets, and I can't blame her for doing this. If OP feels it unfair that he 'pay rent' when she has no mortgage, what I said earlier stands - put the money in an account and in a few years if you are still together and the relationship is solid, use that money towards getting married/go on holiday/etc.

clint_silver

Aye Bosun wrote: »

It's none of your business what she is going to use the money for, there is plenty of expenses involved in owning a house.

I'm a single girl, who owns my own house and there is zero chance i would allow a boyfriend move in and not contribute to rent and bills.

My view on this would change if you guys had a shared bank account and where engaged and planning a shared future together, up until that point 'what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours'.

I think youre missing this somewhat. break out bills as to whats fair or not
Food, halved.
bins, halved
water rates when they come in, halved.
electricity? halved
TV? halved
broadband? halved

But If rent being paid:
what about housing tax? If Im paying rent, Im not paying housing tax
what about house insurance? sorry, Im paying rent, nothign to do with me
someone breaks in and door is broken? sorry, Im paying rent, nothing to do with me.
New Lawnmower needed? sorry, I pay rent, nothing to do with me.

now go the other way. Every bill is halved. no matter what it is.

So whats actually fair? a nominal amount of rent so the girl (in this instance) can adequately cover the expenses? sure, for arguments sake, say 200e a month, but ground rules have to be laid out as to what each are responsible for if rent is being paid out, she doesnt get to get the house taxed halved for example.

she may have put this wrong to OP, if she said "an amount to cover my expenses like tax/insurance/maintenance" that would be fair. Lifestyle was the wrong selling point.

Gatica

agree with the above. Probably most reasonable post on split of expenses.

D3PO wrote: »

wrong under the civil partnerships bill the OP would be better not to sign a rental agreement becasue if they end up splitting after living together for 5 years he will have certain financial entitlements including a possible claim on part of the property.

for this to be true, he'd have to have proof that he lived there with her I imagine. At least one bill would have to be in his name for example.

D3PO wrote: »

this might be why his girlfriend wants some kind of rent payment. Yes its a bit much given nobody should enter a relationship thinking it will fail etc but by her getting some level of rent it insulates her in some way.

I'm assuming you're taking the stance from his and then from her point of view.
If from her point of view she wants to get rental income from the property (which will also protect her from him having a claim to it), then she'll have to declare the income and he can claim tax credits for it (assuming he's in a taxable bracket, and he obviously could do with this extra money). Hope she's willing to go down the legal route in that case...

Aye Bosun wrote: »

if she does not charge you rent and you co-habit after a certain period of time you have a claim to that property under the family home act and as such she cannot remove you or sell the place without your permission as it is regarded as you family home also.

I don't think it can be called a family home unless you're married (or at the very least have children together, I'd imagine). Principle of what you're saying is probably true though (as I've said in a previous post).

It's none of your business what she is going to use the money for, there is plenty of expenses involved in owning a house.
I'm a single girl, who owns my own house and there is zero chance i would allow a boyfriend move in and not contribute to rent and bills.

You're right, there's other expenses, which I admit I wouldn't have thought of, Clint has mentioned a few already. But as his breakdown shows, they can be split 50/50 as well, or otherwise an up-front rental agreement should be done which should cover those expenses already.

D3PO

lifestyle was the wrong selling point. There are agruments for both sides that you can make ranging from the OP is a freeloader to the OP's girlfirned is a sterile unfromantic selfish wench.

the reality is that the truth probably lies somewhere in between. Look at the positives the OP can have a very candid upfront discussion with her and thats the key to any successful relationship. Her reasons for wanting rent may vary from selfish to her trying to protect her assests until the OP has a chat with her about it then he wont know.

if it is just a case of her protecting her assets OP you can sign away your rights under the civil partnership act so if thats all it is you could go down that route.I forgot to mention this earlier.

If its not so be it but once you are going to be better off financially with the bonus of living with the person you care about, I dont see why you would be resentful of her having the same benefits.

Win Win as I see it.

D3PO

Gatica wrote: »

agree with the above. Probably most reasonable post on split of expenses.




for this to be true, he'd have to have proof that he lived there with her I imagine. At least one bill would have to be in his name for example.

No not exactly you just have to prove you were living together as a couple. Which would be pretty easy to do without having a bill in your name. (Now obviously everything ive written re this is at a very high level nothing legal is every as simplistic iykwim)



I'm assuming you're taking the stance from his and then from her point of view.
If from her point of view she wants to get rental income from the property (which will also protect her from him having a claim to it), then she'll have to declare the income and he can claim tax credits for it (assuming he's in a taxable bracket, and he obviously could do with this extra money). Hope she's willing to go down the legal route in that case...

Im actually not taking a stance either way to be honest. Im just trying to work out the though process of the OP's girlfriend. Re declaring the income thats not really a big deal, she would have no tax liability so its one very very simple form to fill in once and year to file the "rent a room" income to the revenue



I don't think it can be called a family home unless you're married (or at the very least have children together, I'd imagine). Principle of what you're saying is probably true though (as I've said in a previous post).

.

Ive answered in bold

pwurple

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Tax credits for rent haven't been abolished since 2008, they've been reducing with the aim of abolishing it in 2018.

Read the back of form ITF. The phasing out only applies to existing tenancies. New tenancies get 0 tax relief.

jackofalltrades

D3PO wrote:

if it is just a case of her protecting her assets OP you can sign away your rights under the civil partnership act so if thats all it is you could go down that route.I forgot to mention this earlier.

You can sign an agreement, but if it gets to court and the judge thinks it unfair on either parties then he can throw the agreement out quite easily.

clint_silver wrote: »

if she said "an amount to cover my expenses like tax/insurance/maintenance" that would be fair.

I thinks this would be fair too.

If I rented with a girlfriend I would pay half the rent. If they owned the house and wanted money towards the mortgage, then I would be looking for some kind of equity in the house in return. I guess if they owned the house I'd be looking for some kind of equity in return too, although I haven't given it much though because it's a rarer scenario.

Toots

This thread is probably better suited to Relationship Issues, so I'm moving it there. Posters please be aware of the rules of the Relationship Issues forum before posting in the thread.

CaraMay

As others have said There have been cases in this messed up country where a man / woman have move into a partners home and when they have moved out forced the house owner to sell to buy them out. No sh1t. She is covering off this issue by treating you as a tenant as such and rightly so. She is protecting her asset but should be clearer about it with you.

I think you are being tight and shouldn't move in with her.

a posse ad esse

Don't move in with her OP. It is not about the money or what she expects from you, it's because you met her a few months ago. Don't you think this relationship is going a little too fast? Get to know her more first and then move in together. The relationship has just started, what's the rush?

fits

I actually cant believe the response in this thread. Do people really expect the girlfriend to give him free accommodation? There are expenses associated with keeping a property, whether she has a mortgage or not.

I think 50% of bills plus a nominal amount of rent is absolutely fair.

limnam

fits wrote: »

I actually cant believe the response in this thread. Do people really expect the girlfriend to give him free accommodation? There are expenses associated with keeping a property, whether she has a mortgage or not.

I think 50% of bills plus a nominal amount of rent is absolutely fair.

I agree with you. Some of the responses are astonishing. OP you're not been treated like a tenant you're been treated like an adult.

The financial status of the mortgage or lack of is completely irrelevant to you paying your way as is the financial situation of their parents or up-bringing.

50% of bills and if she see's fit, a small % reduction on the market rate for a share in similar accommodation I would see as a fair contribution.

You may not want to be treated like a tenant but I put it to you that you also don't want to act like a sponge.

dellas1979

It sounds like she is a little insecure/concerned about you seeing her as a free-ride. I know the bills are being split 50/50, but I just think she doesnt want you to see her as a way of saving money, which is what most of the posts are about.

Maybe offer to take one/two of the bigger bills on full. And leave her with the smaller ones.

Tar.Aldarion

fits wrote: »

I actually cant believe the response in this thread. Do people really expect the girlfriend to give him free accommodation? There are expenses associated with keeping a property, whether she has a mortgage or not.

I think 50% of bills plus a nominal amount of rent is absolutely fair.

Do you think he would not be paying half of those additional expenses as things stand?

ahnow

Hold on a minute, I cannot believe what people are saying on this thread! OP you cannot expect to move in with someone and live rent free-she might have inherited the house but if theres an extra person living in it there is additional wear and tear, and hidden costs that have to be paid for. Things break, things have to get repaired, general upkeep. You simply cannot expect to live somewhere rent-free--that is unbelievable!!!

fits

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Do you think he would not be paying half of those additional expenses as things stand?

I think that the owner of a property is responsible for some rather large expenses that a relatively new partner should not have to think about. Would be better that he pay rent rather than half the cost of a new roof, to use an extreme example. or washing machine etc. Clearly he doesn't have the means for those large one off expenses anyway.

Chucky the tree

I've no problem with her asking for something extra. Even if someone offer me rent free and 50% bills I'd still throw in a bit more because I'm feel like scab otherwise tbh. I think simply paying some form of rent and then not having to deal with the extras will make life easier, but explain this to her. As it stands you'll have to cover the cost of everything in the house if you don't pay extra - new washing machine, TV, all repairs, new carpet, tiles etc. Problem is if you break up and move out obviously this causes a bit of hassle.

Katy89

Mr. Blank wrote: »

Anyway we both spoke about it and she agreed that 50% was quite fair, but maybe giving her a token rent would be a good idea as a jester of faith. But I should also make the point, my girlfriend is already planning our summer holiday so believe me what ever I save will be going strait back into our relationship.

from your original post I found it quite difficult to give a statement to the situation, but after reading this, I would count myself to the 'warning of this girl group'.

so she's planning the holidays and are you taking part in this plannings and therefore where your hard earned and very little savings go??
it doesn't sound like...
OP, I don't know you and your personality, maybe you like somebody is planning with your money and life in general.
this girl sounds to like being in control of your affairs.

your decision whether you want this.

good luck

ShaShaBear

Katy89 wrote: »

from your original post I found it quite difficult to give a statement to the situation, but after reading this, I would count myself to the 'warning of this girl group'.

so she's planning the holidays and are you taking part in this plannings and therefore where your hard earned and very little savings go??
it doesn't sound like...
OP, I don't know you and your personality, maybe you like somebody is planning with your money and life in general.
this girl sounds to like being in control of your affairs.

your decision whether you want this.

good luck

+1 on this. It sounds like she is trying to extend her "looked after" lifestyle. If you are paying her rent, half of her bills AND saving towards taking her on holidays that she is planning, then you're in for a bumpy ride. Did she ask if you could afford this holiday? Is she paying her own way on this holiday, ie paying for her own accommodation and travel expenses? Or is she booking it all and expecting you to foot the bill?

clint_silver

ShaShaBear wrote: »

+1 on this. It sounds like she is trying to extend her "looked after" lifestyle. If you are paying her rent, half of her bills AND saving towards taking her on holidays that she is planning, then you're in for a bumpy ride. Did she ask if you could afford this holiday? Is she paying her own way on this holiday, ie paying for her own accommodation and travel expenses? Or is she booking it all and expecting you to foot the bill?

Its seems to be the common consensus here that some figure is due as rent. What that figure is has to be decided but one would have thought it should be agreeable figure less than any market rate.

As soon as he moved, in its half their bills, not half hers.

Saving towards holidays is what couples do.

kaiserjim

Both move into new rented accomadation split everything down the middle. That's truly fair. She can rent out her house but what you both earn is your own business.

ShaShaBear

clint_silver wrote: »

Its seems to be the common consensus here that some figure is due as rent. What that figure is has to be decided but one would have thought it should be agreeable figure less than any market rate.

As soon as he moved, in its half their bills, not half hers.

Saving towards holidays is what couples do.

If they can both afford them. Doesn't sound like the OP is very enthusiastic about this holiday his GF is planning or the fact that any money he saves by moving will go towards it.