Immersion switch timer?

beardybrewer

This morning I found that my wife had left the immersion on bath again. Typically we leave it on sink 24hrs a day. I'd like to have the option of keeping the sink on, but have the bath on a timer of some sort.

I did some searching about amazon and ebay and all the switches seem to turn the immersion completely off.

Does anyone know if there is any switch that could keep the immersion at sink mode, press a "boost" button to get 2 hours of bath, and then fall back to sink?

patspost

http://www.heatweb.com/pdf/Grasslin/QE7%20INSTRUCTION.pdf

I have something like this, works well.
With your setup you could possibly have the sink on timer all the time or better again just some of the time and use the timed boost for extra.

I got mine online from UK, cant remember where, they are not that popular for some reason, but they are mighty convenient.

beardybrewer

Thanks, I went looking again and think I see what I'm looking for. The brand is TimeGuard and their timers do generally have a "boost" button (bath) which will turn on the double element for 2 hours and then automatically switch back to economy mode (sink).

The model I'm looking at is the NTT03 which seems to be about £35.



http://www.timeguard.com/products/time/immersion-heater-controllers/ntt03-24-hour-7-day-compact-electronic-immersion-heater-timeswitch

hufpc8w3adnk65

I would install a run down timer on the bath switch wire if it were my house.still operate the sink element with the immersion switch just If some one changes it from bath too sink nothing will happen

I'd mount the run down timer along side of immersion switch (this has 4 options 15 mins 30mins 1hr and 2hr) then and have that controlling the bath element and the maximum anyone can run the bath element for is 2 hours with manually switching it back on

beardybrewer

I looked in to this some more and realize that the product above doesn't work. The "boost" simply turns the unit on a run-down timer when the unit is programmed to be off. So it's just an override and assumes you have a program to run on at night and off during the day.

I'm not so sure this will work for us as a long time ago I tried turning the immersion off during the day but ultimately we kept running out of hot water. Once I learned the elements themselves have a thermostat and the immersion has an insulation jacket I decided to just leave it on SINK 24hrs a day.

@MrMac84: The problem is it is hard to separate control of the elements. I think you are only ever meant to run ONE element at a time (short or long). Otherwise you could probably wire the bath element separately with a fairly cheap rundown switch as you suggested.

hufpc8w3adnk65

newkie wrote: »

@MrMac84: The problem is it is hard to separate control of the elements. I think you are only ever meant to run ONE element at a time (short or long). Otherwise you could probably wire the bath element separately with a fairly cheap rundown switch as you suggested.

Any decent electrician could set it up for you that you cannot run both elements..
I.e feed the run down timer threw the bath switch on the immersion so the immersion switch has too be set too ON and BATH before the run down timer has power

beardybrewer

But wouldn't you then need to remember to switch it back to sink or have no hot water?

I was thinking about this and all I really want to do is have a rundown timer for bath which then switches back to sink. If I recall from my EE days I want a DPDT rundown switch. I even found something close used for industrial automation but it can only handle a 5A load.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AH3-2-AC-220V-8-Pin-DPDT-0-3-Hours-3H-Power-on-Delay-Timer-Time-Relay-/190786450704?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2c6bc23510

I think I need Switch Rating 230V AC 16A Resistive (3.68kW), Inductive 4A

hufpc8w3adnk65

It'll be on sink all the time except when someone wants a bath/shower (I'm guessin) and yes they'll have too switch it back over

madster

patspost wrote: »

http://www.heatweb.com/pdf/Grasslin/QE7%20INSTRUCTION.pdf

I have something like this, works well.
With your setup you could possibly have the sink on timer all the time or better again just some of the time and use the timed boost for extra.

I got mine online from UK, cant remember where, they are not that popular for some reason, but they are mighty convenient.

Hi Pat, I have a question about this controller, as I found it in my new apartment.

If I press the Boost button once, it works for (let say) 15 minutes, but it never turns off (the light behind the boost button keeps glowing). What happens after 15 minutes if I don't press the button again?

Does it turn on again automatically every time the water temperature falls down?

Thank you,
Max

frankmul

I want to find out a bit more about this stat and came across this. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=258033

There was a product recall on this product at some stage!

http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?p=103&n=127&a=783

They are still replacing them

Bruthal

One possibility for your setup is the count back timer, and a contactor with a n/o and n/c contact. Sink fed through the n/c contact. Bath through the n/o.

Contactor powered by the timer.

Just use a normal 20 amp dp switch then instead of a sink-bath immersion one to enable switching it all off.

When you switch on the dp switch, the sink is on all the time. Press the timer button, and it swaps to bath for the timer duration, then switches back to sink when the timer runs out.

If the countback timer has 2 way contacts, it would probably work without the contactor.

johnwest288

What about a simple boost button

Would that not cost a bomb leaving the immersion on "sink" setting 24 hours a day 365 days a year????

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=immersion+boost+timer&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.ZG4&biw=1024&bih=653&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=xmg4Ub3PMOeR7Aar44GAAQ#imgrc=xz9YasXXbP43fM%3A%3Byl1xBrYBtOO4uM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.onlinelightingshop.com%252Fuploads%252F2hr_electronic_boost_timer_2_tgbt4.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.onlinelightingshop.com%252Fproducts%252F2hr-electronic-boost-timer.html%3B600%3B517

beardybrewer

Bruthal wrote: »

One possibility for your setup is the count back timer, and a contactor with a n/o and n/c contact. Sink fed through the n/c contact. Bath through the n/o.

I was going that route (see my subsequent post on an industrial timer) but I couldn't find one that could handle the amperage required.

I ended up buying an Economy 7 timer from TimeGuard.



This actually has 2 channels to control a 2 element immersion. I plan to reverse the hookups to have the short element on the timer and the long element on the boost. This would be closest to how we currently use the immersion in that normally it is on sink (short element) and need to switch it to bath (long elemennt BOOST) when we need more hot water. They actually intend you do it the other way around: use the long element at night whent he rates are cheap. And then top up during the day with the short element if you run out. I checked with them and it doesn't matter which element you hook up to timer/boost.

beardybrewer

johnwest288 wrote: »

What about a simple boost button

Would that not cost a bomb leaving the immersion on "sink" setting 24 hours a day 365 days a year????

I had hoped that at first, but it turns out the boost button is usually for a single element. Their idea of how you would use it is to have the single element on a timer at night for the low rates. Then if you need to top up you press the BOOST button to turn on your single element during the day.

The whole 2 element thing pushed me in to another price bracket. I ended up spending £55 for the controller above.

As far as the sink 24/7, it's not that costly in the scheme of things. Keep in mind the element has it's own thermostat so it's not really running the whole time and with the boiler on in winter it has even less to do. I tried it one month on and one month off and it seemed to cost about €30 to have hot water on demand. At the time this seemed reasonable but energy costs have surely gone up since I ran this experiement 6 years ago.

Now that I've gotten a timer I plan on trying to program it be smarter. I don't think my rates change at night (on my list to check) and I'm not sure about the efficiency of the insulation even if I did have night rates... as in, could I heat water cheaply in the middle of the night yet still have enough hot water to do the dishes after dinner?

madster

I have that system too and a night-saver tariff. However I can't really use most of the hot water generated at night, because during the day I'm not at home.

What could happen to my bill if I don't schedule any hot water during the night, and keep the 'Boost' button turned on 24/7 ?

beardybrewer

madster wrote: »

I have that system too and a night-saver tariff. However I can't really use most of the hot water generated at night, because during the day I'm not at home.

What could happen to my bill if I don't schedule any hot water during the night, and keep the 'Boost' button turned on 24/7 ?

Does the hot water generated from the previous night last until the following evening when you get home? I'm guessing from your follow on question that it does not.

The boost button is a manual 1/2, 1, 1.5, or 2 hour countdown timer. Apparently you can program it to come on up to 4 intervals during the day. My thinking is to program it at 4pm for an hour's boost (of the long element) as the kids bathtime would be about an hour later. I then hope to use the timer to warm some water (with the short element) for the morning and evenings for washing up but am not planning on heating it all night when we sleep as I don't think we have a special night tarrif.

Dotsie~tmp

The newer apartments often have a dual day night meter. Heating the water before 8am saves money. It should stay hot for seveal hours with a properly insulated modern system. Check your meter to see if you have this (2 meter readings on it). It will save you money.