Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Paid Parking for all Staff & Students
Options
Comments
-
work.inprocess wrote: »I'd love to be able to drive in in the mornings, even with the paid parking it would be cheaper than getting the (minimum) 4 buses a day but coming from Meath, I'm already getting up at around 5 in the morning to be in on time for a 9 o'clock lecture and that's without having to be there super early to get a car parking space. They really need to sort out some sort of multi story car park in UCD, I would love to drive the 40/45 minutes it would take me rather than the 2.5+ hours it takes on the bus, and I'm not even one of the people that comes from the furthest away every morning
All I can say is far play to you.
Its far, far cheaper to drive. Even when you factor in tax and insurance as long as their is more than one person in the car. (On that note, UCD should be encouraging car pooling)
If I was to get the bus with the other person I drive in with, it would be a minimum of 4 x €2.45 or €9.80 per day in the pocket of Dublin bus. Thats €49 per week. At the moment I'm on work semester so I'm driving about 70km per day per week (About 3 times my distance to UCD) and thats only costing me €55 in petrol per week. I don't car pool but if I did you can clearly see the savings.
Its off topic but the sooner Dublin bus get reformed the better. Its a ludicrously uneconomical outfit.0 -
A couple of points on this "proposal" as it relates to staff:
1) The proposal is to charge .50 per hour on campus. That is effectively a pay cut of €20/week for those staff who must commute by car. This idea will be fought tooth and nail by the unions for just this reason.
2) Staff, unlike students, are here for years, often decades. Multiply €20/week by 35 to 48 weeks by 40 years and that's €28,000 to €38,400 that you're asking staff to give back to their employer for the privilege of doing their jobs.
3) Most institutions privilege staff parking over student parking for a very simple reason (at least in the case of academic staff): if a student can't find parking, that student might miss a class or something else; if a lecturer can't find parking, everyone in the class will miss the class. Given that there isn't enough parking and given the large numbers of students from the local area who drive to campus when alternatives are available, it makes much more sense to let staff park for free and to charge students. Or, alternatively, to charge students who live within a certain distance of UCD. Many other places do one or the other of these things.0 -
Sam the Sham wrote: »A couple of points on this "proposal" as it relates to staff:
1) The proposal is to charge .50 per hour on campus. That is effectively a pay cut of €20/week for those staff who must commute by car. This idea will be fought tooth and nail by the unions for just this reason.
2) Staff, unlike students, are here for years, often decades. Multiply €20/week by 35 to 48 weeks by 40 years and that's €28,000 to €38,400 that you're asking staff to give back to their employer for the privilege of doing their jobs.
3) Most institutions privilege staff parking over student parking for a very simple reason (at least in the case of academic staff): if a student can't find parking, that student might miss a class or something else; if a lecturer can't find parking, everyone in the class will miss the class. Given that there isn't enough parking and given the large numbers of students from the local area who drive to campus when alternatives are available, it makes much more sense to let staff park for free and to charge students. Or, alternatively, to charge students who live within a certain distance of UCD. Many other places do one or the other of these things.
I may be wrong, but I think if UCD starts providing free parking to staff it has different legal implications as its seen as a benefit and I think UCD has to pay tax on each space it provides for staff. So by treating staff and students as equal UCD avoids paying this.
Parking spaces in UCD are also limited to 3,600 by dlrcoco.
Open for correction but I think that's it.0 -
I may be wrong, but I think if UCD starts providing free parking to staff it has different legal implications as its seen as a benefit and I think UCD has to pay tax on each space it provides for staff.
Not so: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/other.html#section11Parking spaces in UCD are also limited to 3,600 by dlrcoco.
Yes. Why shouldn't these be reserved, first, for staff and, second, for students who genuinely need them given their distance from campus?0 -
Sam the Sham wrote: »A couple of points on this "proposal" as it relates to staff:
1) The proposal is to charge .50 per hour on campus. That is effectively a pay cut of €20/week for those staff who must commute by car. This idea will be fought tooth and nail by the unions for just this reason.
2) Staff, unlike students, are here for years, often decades. Multiply €20/week by 35 to 48 weeks by 40 years and that's €28,000 to €38,400 that you're asking staff to give back to their employer for the privilege of doing their jobs.
Throwing around multiples of 0.50c is still meaningless at the moment. Under the current permit system for staff and students, a years parking is €50, that's €2000 for 40 years going with your example. Not unreasonable I think. The cost of an annual permit will represent the real price.
The whole "being charged for doing our jobs" argument is, frankly, BS. Unless an employer contractually obliges you to travel to work by car and then charges for parking, you are not being charged to attend work. You are being charged to facilitate your choice to commute by car which, incidentally, is still the most expensive mode for any workplace to cater for.Sam the Sham wrote: »3) Most institutions privilege staff parking over student parking for a very simple reason (at least in the case of academic staff): if a student can't find parking, that student might miss a class or something else; if a lecturer can't find parking, everyone in the class will miss the class. Given that there isn't enough parking and given the large numbers of students from the local area who drive to campus when alternatives are available, it makes much more sense to let staff park for free and to charge students. Or, alternatively, to charge students who live within a certain distance of UCD. Many other places do one or the other of these things.
Completely agree that staff should be prioritised, but it shouldn't be for free. Many other Irish universities operate the staff first approach including NUIG, Trinity, UCC and Limerick. Not all charge for it though some do. Where they don't, the students end up paying for it obliquely with things like the ever-expanding registration fee.
The distance from campus thing sounds fair but most places that have tried it (Mainly UK afaik, don't know of any in Ireland) need to establish a huge bureacracy to run it (It's a bit like means testing - there's diminishing returns because of drag from the administrative apparatus needed to carry out the testing) and even then it's still wide open to abuse.0 -
Advertisement
-
Throwing around multiples of 0.50c is still meaningless at the moment. Under the current permit system for staff and students, a years parking is €50, that's €2000 for 40 years going with your example. Not unreasonable I think. The cost of an annual permit will represent the real price.
There is no proposal on the table for an annual permit. The only proposal is for .50/hour for everyone.The whole "being charged for doing our jobs" argument is, frankly, BS. Unless an employer contractually obliges you to travel to work by car and then charges for parking, you are not being charged to attend work. You are being charged to facilitate your choice to commute by car which, incidentally, is still the most expensive mode for any workplace to cater for.
What if you have no other options than to commute by car?
What if your employer started to charge you rent for the use of your office? Would that be OK? How about charging staff for the use of the telephone? This is just another form of sharecropping.Completely agree that staff should be prioritised, but it shouldn't be for free. Many other Irish universities operate the staff first approach including NUIG, Trinity, UCC and Limerick. Not all charge for it though some do. Where they don't, the students end up paying for it obliquely with things like the ever-expanding registration fee.
This is nonsense. Student "registration fee" pays for a tiny fraction of the cost of the education they receive.
The cost of the car parking facilities would not even be necessary had a sensible permit system been put in place years ago.The distance from campus thing sounds fair but most places that have tried it (Mainly UK afaik, don't know of any in Ireland) need to establish a huge bureacracy to run it (It's a bit like means testing - there's diminishing returns because of drag from the administrative apparatus needed to carry out the testing) and even then it's still wide open to abuse.
UCD already has a huge bureaucracy. How many people (not to mention outside consultants) do you imagine it took to plan the new multi-storey car parks, to design the "surveys" we're being asked to fill out, etc. etc.? Those energies would be better spent working out a fair permit system (free for staff).0 -
The whole "being charged for doing our jobs" argument is, frankly, BS. Unless an employer contractually obliges you to travel to work by car and then charges for parking, you are not being charged to attend work. You are being charged to facilitate your choice to commute by car which, incidentally, is still the most expensive mode for any workplace to cater for.
It's a change to the terms and conditions of employment. Free parking may not be written in any contract but it was there when employment started so there is an expectation that it would remain.0 -
Sam the Sham wrote: »There is no proposal on the table for an annual permit. The only proposal is for .50/hour for everyone.
That's not a proposal, it's what the governing authority have already decided. Have you done the survey? Half the questions are in relation to a permit system. Can't say for certain that it'll be implemented but I'd rate it as a very high probability. A permit will supercede the .50c an hour rate as is currently the case so it's meaningless until we have more information.Sam the Sham wrote: »What if you have no other options than to commute by car?
This argument always rears up at some point in any discussion of parking in UCD. How will you decide who can and can't commute by car? Distance from campus is a very crude measure and easy to manipulate for assessment purposes. Even if you live a long way out there's options other than parking on campus. Unfortunately this issue is tied into larger problems arising from things like the commuter belt sprawl and the still dismal public transport system.Sam the Sham wrote: »What if your employer started to charge you rent for the use of your office? Would that be OK? How about charging staff for the use of the telephone? This is just another form of sharecropping.
So you're comparing two items provided by your employer to do your job with your personal mode of transport? Unless your employer is also providing your car this analogy is irrelevant.
Care to explain this further? I can't see how having a permit system would have prevented the need for the new multi storeys. Aside from anything else, the college wants to build on some of the existing carparks which would require consolidation of the sprawling surface ones anyway.Sam the Sham wrote: »The cost of the car parking facilities would not even be necessary had a sensible permit system been put in place years ago.
You might be interested to know that there was a permit system in use years ago, it was turned into a "registration scheme" in its final year or two but it essentially collapsed under the weight of student commuters as more and more started driving to school, never mind college.Sam the Sham wrote: »UCD already has a huge bureaucracy. How many people (not to mention outside consultants) do you imagine it took to plan the new multi-storey car parks, to design the "surveys" we're being asked to fill out, etc. etc.?
I don't know about planning the multi storeys but they would almost certainly be outside agencies operating under tender. The survey is being done by one person who is definitely a consultant through surveymonkey. Assessing for entitlement to permits would have to be a permanent task for the college infrastructure.Sam the Sham wrote: »Those energies would be better spent working out a fair permit system (free for staff).
I'm guessing you haven't done the survey then? That's really the point of it, it's to decide on the final shape of the charging system which I think is going to include staff and student permits. Free permits aren't on the table (I don't think) but there's a big difference between .50 an hour and €50 a year.
@n2o - That's a valid argument. It was put forward in 2008 when paid parking was first to be introduced and resulted in the plans being abandoned. As the GA must be aware of the Union stance on this, the only conclusion can be is that they have decided to confront them on it regardless. Can the Unions block it again? I just don't see it happening this time around without major industrial action.0 -
@n2o - That's a valid argument. It was put forward in 2008 when paid parking was first to be introduced and resulted in the plans being abandoned. As the GA must be aware of the Union stance on this, the only conclusion can be is that they have decided to confront them on it regardless. Can the Unions block it again? I just don't see it happening this time around without major industrial action.
That's for the Labour Court to decide....0 -
That's not a proposal, it's what the governing authority have already decided. Have you done the survey? Half the questions are in relation to a permit system. Can't say for certain that it'll be implemented but I'd rate it as a very high probability. A permit will supercede the .50c an hour rate as is currently the case so it's meaningless until we have more information.
I see no reason to believe this speculation on your part. The main motivation behind this entire idea is revenue generation. If permits generated significant revenue, they would have been instituted years ago.This argument always rears up at some point in any discussion of parking in UCD. How will you decide who can and can't commute by car? Distance from campus is a very crude measure and easy to manipulate for assessment purposes.
You're blowing smoke. Ever hear of Google Maps? Bing Maps? You can calculate the driving time between any two points. (In the US they also have public transit times and cycling times; this should be coming to Ireland soon). If we take driving time as a suitable proxy for commuting time in general, it is easy to stipulate that any student residing at a location with a commuting time of greater than X is entitled to a permit.Even if you live a long way out there's options other than parking on campus. Unfortunately this issue is tied into larger problems arising from things like the commuter belt sprawl and the still dismal public transport system.
Which this proposal does nothing to solve while putting the burden entirely on commuters. Perhaps you're too young to remember but it was not that long ago that the only residences of any kind that could be afforded by people on UCD salaries were way outside of Dublin 4. For many that's still the case and many who bought outside the city are now in negative equity. Now you want to make them pay again for that fact.So you're comparing two items provided by your employer to do your job with your personal mode of transport? Unless your employer is also providing your car this analogy is irrelevant.
Can I do my job if I can't get to it?Care to explain this further? I can't see how having a permit system would have prevented the need for the new multi storeys. Aside from anything else, the college wants to build on some of the existing carparks which would require consolidation of the sprawling surface ones anyway.
It's really very simple. Introduce a permit system with gates: no permit, no entry. Staff are given free permits. Students within a certain radius of UCD are charged. Park and ride commuters are excluded. No need for multi-storeys. If there is still too much demand, increase the price for students. Rinse and repeat. Problem solved.You might be interested to know that there was a permit system in use years ago, it was turned into a "registration scheme" in its final year or two but it essentially collapsed under the weight of student commuters as more and more started driving to school, never mind college.
Oh how I laugh. That "permit system" was a joke. There were no gates at the entry to the car park and failure to have a permit was never enforced. It didn't "collapse under the weight of student commuters." It was flimsy and half-arsed from the start.I don't know about planning the multi storeys but they would almost certainly be outside agencies operating under tender. The survey is being done by one person who is definitely a consultant through surveymonkey. Assessing for entitlement to permits would have to be a permanent task for the college infrastructure.
I can assure you that UCD has a large bureaucracy (including outside consultants) attending to this.@n2o - That's a valid argument. It was put forward in 2008 when paid parking was first to be introduced and resulted in the plans being abandoned. As the GA must be aware of the Union stance on this, the only conclusion can be is that they have decided to confront them on it regardless. Can the Unions block it again? I just don't see it happening this time around without major industrial action.
Let me tell you the real history of this. This bright idea--identical in all important particulars save one--of charging .50/hour to everyone for parking was first proposed in October 2006, not 2008. That's 6 and a half years ago. The unions objected on similar grounds to those on which they are objecting now but proposed other possibilities that might ameliorate the car parking problem on campus (notably permits). The administration then proceeded to do exactly zero for the next 5 1/2 years. During that time, how much petrol and student and staff time was wasted in an often-futile daily search for parking? They didn't care. It wasn't affecting them: they just made a few more spaces next to AIB into "reserved" spaces so that they wouldn't be the ones tooling around.
Finally, in 2012, having thought about it for 5 1/2 years, they came back with their great plan: "I know! Let's charge everyone .50/hour for parking!" They held open meetings in Spring of 2012 at which they were told, once again and in no uncertain terms that staff considered this a pay cut. The only difference from the 2006 proposals is that now they are claiming that the "need" for multi-storey car parks is what necessitates this charge. Before, they had no justification whatsoever. But of course, this administration's answer to any problem is to build a huge and expensive building. Really, they are little more than property developers (never mind that sinking €10 million on the planning for the never-to-be-built "Gateway Project" hasn't helped the university's finances). Now they are trying to ram this proposal through at exactly the same moment that staff have been told to expect pay cuts of from 5.5 to 10%. Great timing, guys. If it was a non-runner in 2006, it is dead in the water in 2013.
The unions have other options short of industrial action to stop this. First stop: the Labour Relations Commission, where they would point out that this is a change to conditions of employment. From there it might go to the Labour Court. And I'd be willing to bet they'd win in one or the other. But, frankly, I doubt it will come to that: an administration simply cannot piss off a huge percentage of its own employees. Not in a university...
There is another issue, of course: When Hugh Brady took office he made a great deal of noise about wanting to turn UCD into a "24-hour campus" with activity at all hours. It wasn't a bad idea: other universities have a lot more going on on-campus at night-time including lecturers working in the library or their offices. Now ask yourself: how does charging staff .50/hour fit in with this vision?0 -
Advertisement
-
I won't quote your reply because there's nothing more tedious than a quote war. I would like to reply to some of your points though.
It is speculation that permits will feature albeit based on observed facts, so I prefer hypothesis. But it's no more speculation than your assertion that it's going to be 50c 24/7/365. I'm not arguing that the main aim isn't revenue generation, that's been openly stated. Disincentivising parking (further) has been a long term goal as well though, this follows that aim.
I'm well aware of Google maps etc thanks, and if it was that simple it would work. But it isn't. You ignored my point which is that this data is very easy to manipulate. What will you take as proof of address for the purpose of determining eligibility for a permit? How will you handle students renting or sharing? Giving a home address in Gorey while living in Ranelagh?
I never suggested that this system would solve it but commuting strategy should never be designed to validate poor choices. I'm not suggesting they should have to pay for living miles away outside Dublin, I think that they should pay for use of a scarce resource in UCD Belfield which is shared with a lot of users with different circumstances. If they still want to park and ride at a dart station or park in the surrounding estates and walk in for nothing they are free to do that. But you're asking for a specific set of personal circumstances to be taken into account for a small section of car drivers which amounts to special pleading.
This seems to be the main thrust of your argument in general. You want UCD to support and validate your chosen method of commuting - but that's your private business. The college doesn't stipulate that you commute by car or provide a vehicle for your use - it's up to you. If anything, UCD will be looking to discourage car drivers further. The argument "If I can't drive I can't work, what are you going to do to accomodate me?" is simply childish.
I'd agree with the gates idea. I've got serious reservations about ANPR given all the shenanigans that happened elsewhere with it (M50, I'm looking at you). Perhaps you remember the gates that used to be in place on some car parks and what happened with them?
Paid parking was due for implementation in 2008, not proposed 2008, I stand corrected. It's also true that the lack of action and imagination from the GA so far is disgraceful. I was just pointing out that there had been a previous skirmish on this already.
My point on industrial action is that surely the other responses (Labour relations etc) would have been anticipated. And remember that LRC recommendations are not legally binding, UCD can proceed with it unilaterally. Industrial action on this issue may be the only way for opponents. I'm not sure how it will play alongside Croke Park 2 though, I think it will be in danger of getting sidetracked.
The permit system was run by Services, it was patchily enforced for a while before devolving and being abandoned. But lack of resources committed and increasing car numbers killed it, the main increase being through student drivers.
Paid parking doesn't harm the 24/7 ideal (Which btw is a pipe dream at the moment I think, UCD is dead out of hours except for some specialist research areas) if restricted to core hours with free parking evenings and weekends. Again, it's speculation until the final system is presented.0 -
I'd agree with the gates idea. I've got serious reservations about ANPR given all the shenanigans that happened elsewhere with it (M50, I'm looking at you).
What's wrong with ANPR? Don't tell me your one of these conspiracy theorists who believes the M50 is tracking us all? :pac:
Barriers won't work in UCD. People can barely managed Dundrum car park with barriers on a quiet Monday, let alone a 8.50am rush in the morning. ANPR is the only way it would work.0 -
Would it really result in industrial action by staff if they lost free parking?
I think it was about 3 years ago that St Vincents Hospital got rid of the free parking for staff (one car park, access controlled by swipe activated barrier, it seemed to be full by 6.30am) and brought in a staff parking rate, think it's 3 euro a day. Staff rate also applies in the multi story car park.
Anyone know of other instances where staff lost previously free parking?0 -
It is speculation that permits will feature albeit based on observed facts, so I prefer hypothesis.
Again: there is no evidence that permits will feature. They have never been proposed by the administration at any time during discussions with the unions. Indeed, when the unions have proposed them (free for staff), they have been resisted by the administration.I'm well aware of Google maps etc thanks, and if it was that simple it would work. But it isn't. You ignored my point which is that this data is very easy to manipulate. What will you take as proof of address for the purpose of determining eligibility for a permit? How will you handle students renting or sharing? Giving a home address in Gorey while living in Ranelagh?
This is a canard. It's the same canard thrown up by those opposed to, for example, assessing university fees based on the ability to pay: "people will cheat!" Funnily enough, other places in other jurisdictions seem to have solved both problems: they have parking systems that are able to discriminate based on difficulty of commuting and they have fees that are assessed based on ability to pay. But, in Ireland, somehow these sorts of things are "impossible."
Most people are honest. If a few around the margins are going to cheat no matter what, that is not a reason for not implementing something.
In any case, the vast majority of UCD students come from the UCD catchment area. Even if every car owner from outside Dublin but living in Dublin cheated, it wouldn't amount to much.I never suggested that this system would solve it but commuting strategy should never be designed to validate poor choices.
I think what you meant to say is that commuting strategy should never be designed to validate the choice to be poor. Because that is what you are arguing. Again: there was a property bubble that made housing unaffordable for large numbers of UCD staff who then went and bought houses and apartments distant from their place of work. These people, most of whom are in negative equity, have no other way of commuting to work. And you want to hit them with an extra €20/week in addition to the pay cut that is coming in CP II (which is in addition to the pay cuts of 15-25% that they have already suffered since 2008). Not realistic.I'm not suggesting they should have to pay for living miles away outside Dublin, I think that they should pay for use of a scarce resource in UCD Belfield which is shared with a lot of users with different circumstances.
It's not a "scarce resource." The problem here arises out of Celtic Tiger cubs with the means to buy cars. Of course no study has been done on it (why would we need to know anything about who is parking at UCD and why?), but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of cars parked at UCD are owned by students who live within 3 miles of the campus.If they still want to park and ride at a dart station or park in the surrounding estates and walk in for nothing they are free to do that.
That's your policy? We'll ram through .50 an hour and let the neighbours suffer the consequences?But you're asking for a specific set of personal circumstances to be taken into account for a small section of car drivers which amounts to special pleading.
Special pleading? Do you think there is no distinction between staff and students?This seems to be the main thrust of your argument in general. You want UCD to support and validate your chosen method of commuting - but that's your private business.
I didn't say anything about my "chosen method" or even that I was a UCD commuter. But you're quick to read things into all of this that aren't there.The college doesn't stipulate that you commute by car or provide a vehicle for your use - it's up to you. If anything, UCD will be looking to discourage car drivers further. The argument "If I can't drive I can't work, what are you going to do to accomodate me?" is simply childish.
The college doesn't stipulate that staff commute by car or by helicopter but they do insist that staff be there on time. For some--including those living far off in the wilds of Rathfarnham, which is inaccessible by public transportation--this is impossible without parking provision. In addition, this is, as has been argued, part of their longstanding conditions of employment. A change to it is therefore an industrial relations issue, one on which I can tell you they are not going to cave.It's also true that the lack of action and imagination from the GA so far is disgraceful.
Finally, we agree on something. Now, given that there has been a lack of imagination and given a desire to solve the problem, what sort of plan can we come up with that is acceptable to the staff and gives priority access to those who need it most. I've already suggested something very simple that answers all those requirements: enforced permit system, free permits for staff, students living beyond a certain radius get free (or subsidised) permits, everyone else pays. If you think the radius idea is unworkable, fine: free staff permits, everyone else pays, hourly parking for all non-UCD people.
You'd think this was neuroscience the way the administration approach it. It's been done elsewhere quite successfully but I can't think of a single university in the world where staff are charged by the hour to park. But I guess that's what those administrators make all that hefty, illicit bonus money for: reinventing the wheel.0 -
Sam the Sham wrote: »It's not a "scarce resource." The problem here arises out of Celtic Tiger cubs with the means to buy cars. Of course no study has been done on it (why would we need to know anything about who is parking at UCD and why?), but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of cars parked at UCD are owned by students who live within 3 miles of the campus.
Wasn't there a campaign a good while back about the price/standard of food in the UCD restaurant, and it involved posting chips through the internal mail to the then UCD president? Sam, is it one of the left over chips from then that's resting on your shoulder?
There's also plenty of UCD staff living within that magic 3 miles of the campus.
Currently the car parks filling up before 9am is reducing the effective utilisation of the spaces, with people who may not need to be on the campus until 1pm coming in at 8am. There is very minimal turnover during the day.
The sooner paid parking comes in the better - and I don't think that staff should be exempt, and should pay the same annual/semester charge as students. A staff member on campus 5 days a week for the full calendar year will thus still have a lower per day charge than a student attending lectures 3/4 days a week for the college year.0 -
What's wrong with ANPR? Don't tell me your one of these conspiracy theorists who believes the M50 is tracking us all? :pac:
Barriers won't work in UCD. People can barely managed Dundrum car park with barriers on a quiet Monday, let alone a 8.50am rush in the morning. ANPR is the only way it would work.
No, just about accuracy. ANPR is fine up to a point and does work in Dundrum but that's based on a static read by stopping people at barriers. The M50 model has a lot of problems with false reads and mistakes caused by trying to hit moving targets plus there's a lot of ways to actively interfere with it, e.g. IR coatings, tailgating etc. At the very least it'll intoduce a big element of uncertainty. The idea of ANPR is to log car movements, no reason why staff and students can't log in and out using their cards.
Sam - Im basing my hypothesis on the survey which was emailed around and the current permit system. Any future permit won't be free but I think there will be a cheaper rate for staff and possibly students. Can you tell me if you've done done the survey? I'm guessing the answer is no.
6000 people (roughly) trying to park in 3600 spaces = scarce resource. The neighbours are already suffering from this, take a look at the surrounding estates during term time.
I didn't say that it was impossible to introduce the equivalent of distance means testing, just that it will involve a big bureuacracy (Which you seem opposed to) and will be unfair and open to abuse if the current grant means test proposals are anything to go by.
Are you seriously trying to pretend that you're not a UCD car driver? OK... Also, it's a shock to hear that Rathfarnham is so inaccessible seeing as it's served by the 17 bus which goes direct to campus. And of course every other staff member and student who lives within 3 miles will also be arguing that they HAVE to drive.
Cuckoo - Vincents tightening up their parking is another reason why the problem has shifted further onto us.0 -
I don't think anywhere is actually served by the 17 bus.0
-
My Education Week: Diarmaid Ferriter, Professor of modern Irish history at University College Dublin
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2013/0226/1224330507411.html
THURSDAY
Seminars in UCD with third-year students on the meaning of a republic in the early 1920s. A latecomer, who said she couldn’t get parking, temporarily interrupts spirited contributions. She lives in Milltown, a 10-minute walk away. The mind boggles.0 -
Iwannahurl wrote: »My Education Week: Diarmaid Ferriter, Professor of modern Irish history at University College Dublin
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2013/0226/1224330507411.html
THURSDAY
Seminars in UCD with third-year students on the meaning of a republic in the early 1920s. A latecomer, who said she couldn’t get parking, temporarily interrupts spirited contributions. She lives in Milltown, a 10-minute walk away. The mind boggles.
You and your stupid, irrelevant, unfounded statistics.
http://goo.gl/maps/lYkMp
Milltown is at least a 20 to 30 minute walk from UCD. Its a 10 minute drive or cycle. And I'll point out the 'A' on that map is a junction in Milltown, not a housing estate. So easily add 5 mins at that end. And the 'B' is closest to the Arts building where the lecture was most likely talking place. Even from the extremities of UCD, closest to Milltown, to that building is a 10 mins walk. A quick 10km road run takes about 40 mins. So at 2km its about 8 minutes and that would be a damn fast pace.
EDIT: Went abit overboard.0 -
Cuckoo - Vincents tightening up their parking is another reason why the problem has shifted further onto us.
UCD health science students never had access to the staff parking in Vincents, so the introduction of staff charges didn't affect students. I mentioned it because the introduction of paid parking for staff in Vincents didn't result in industrial action (and while i'd like my lecturers to be on time in UCD, I might really, really need a surgeon/ICU staff member to be on time if I'm a patient in Vincents). And with on call and shift work, public transport can be less of an option for hospital staff than for UCD employees - but there wasn't protest at the change to paid parking.
The Vincents overflow of parking tends to be on the roads and estates around Nutley, and at the Montrose hotel. Health science students parking in UCD would be Mater/Holles Street, again it's the N11 front car parks as they'd be using the bus stop.0 -
Advertisement
-
The Vincents overflow of parking tends to be on the roads and estates around Nutley, and at the Montrose hotel. Health science students parking in UCD would be Mater/Holles Street, again it's the N11 front car parks as they'd be using the bus stop.
I have to say I have no issue with students using the car park in UCD when on placement in the various hospitals or in any field of study, on the condition they actually had business in UCD on that day be that in the morning or later in the afternoon. If someone had a lecture at 11 and was in at 8.30 to go into town shopping, I'd have no problem with that either.
However using it as a park n' ride car park for the day for weeks on end really and truly isn't on. If you parked in Stillorgan Shopping Centre or any business premises for weeks on end so that you could avoid getting the bus that little bit further you'd be quickly (And rightly) clamped or towed.
We don't need paid parking we just need a little, somewhat aggressive, action from the UCD Authorities to combat those who are using UCD as a public transport dodge. Even put in decent barriers that open to the RFID chip in the U-Card. Problem instantly solved.0 -
You and your stupid, irrelevant, unfounded statistics.
Statistics?!
It's a direct quote from a UCD professor. A couple of "" added below to make it even clearer.Iwannahurl wrote: »My Education Week: Diarmaid Ferriter, Professor of modern Irish history at University College Dublin
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2013/0226/1224330507411.html
"THURSDAY
Seminars in UCD with third-year students on the meaning of a republic in the early 1920s. A latecomer, who said she couldn’t get parking, temporarily interrupts spirited contributions. She lives in Milltown, a 10-minute walk away. The mind boggles."0 -
Iwannahurl wrote: »Statistics?!
It's a direct quote from a UCD professor. A couple of "" added below to make it even clearer.
Your regular statistics, facts and figures over in Motors especially the Speed Cam thread. Except this time you didn't check your information and I'm frankly delighted you got caught out. I'm going to frame that post.
What is your connection with UCD anyway? (Genuine question)0 -
Your regular statistics, facts and figures over in Motors especially the Speed Cam thread. Except this time you didn't check your information and I'm frankly delighted you got caught out. I'm going to frame that post.
I fail to see what facts, figures, statistics and other established evidence concerning the subject of speed cameras has to do with the accurately quoted words of a UCD professor of history.
But frame away all the same. Everyone needs a hobby.
0 -
.. has anyone heard of any updates on the Car Parking situation?0
-
Protest tomorrow I hear...0
-
Hmm not looking good if the proposed charges list circulating about is genuine. No sign of permits at all, 0.50c per hour for staff, students and service providers 24/7/365 but capped at a max of 5 hours per day chargeable for 0.50c. Higher charges for visitors, varied at different times of the day.
Total cost to a student driving every day during term time and staying the max per day is €315, for staff it's going to be higher with an extra 24 weeks working days out of term (less holidays presumably).
Designed to give a 17 year payback on the multistorey.
No mention of how it will be managed or operated.
Assumes 100% term time occupancy for purposes of revenue collection meaning demand for spaces is still expected to exceed capacity even with charges introduced (probably a safe bet though).0 -
In response to the protest, the Governing Authority has apparently instructed UCD senior management to engage with the unions (who are all united in opposition to the charges and have been calling for negotiations on the matter for years).
It is not clear whether the GA also changed its stance by which staff and students are to be treated equally. The problem with the unions could be resolved in a heartbeat by giving all staff free annual permits and charging everyone else. But the administration is no doubt counting on the revenue from all parking spaces and doesn't want to give up that revenue from staff.
The failure even to consult the unions does show the contempt they have from their own staff. The sooner Brady and his crowd are gone, the better, IMO.0 -
Sam the Sham wrote: »In response to the protest, the Governing Authority has apparently instructed UCD senior management to engage with the unions (who are all united in opposition to the charges and have been calling for negotiations on the matter for years).
It is not clear whether the GA also changed its stance by which staff and students are to be treated equally. The problem with the unions could be resolved in a heartbeat by giving all staff free annual permits and charging everyone else. But the administration is no doubt counting on the revenue from all parking spaces and doesn't want to give up that revenue from staff.
While I agree no one should have to pay to park at their place of work, theres a huge difference between going to paid employment and attending the college as a student. I'll probably have to fork out the bones of €6k next year for continuing my course alone. Plus the, if Tayto is correct, another €300 or so just to park. Thats the equivalent of about 5 weeks worth of Petrol. I'm not in a position to use public transport and its cheaper anyway to drive because I have one person extra in the car.
The fee should be based on your distance to UCD, car pooling and time spent there. Its easily achievable and examples exist in the US. I'm not saying UCD owe me anything but asking for more money is ludicrous especially when there is no need to charge for parking in my eyes. Paid parking is a revenue generator, nothing more. And no amount of multi stories could ever cover the amount of parking required. UCD is just too big and too constrained by the surrounding city in my view.
Also, cannot wait for the field day NCPS are going to have when all this comes into force. I'll be renting angle grinders by Eng if anyone wants one :pac:0 -
Advertisement
-
While I agree no one should have to pay to park at their place of work, theres a huge difference between going to paid employment and attending the college as a student.
Indeed, there is. You attend college for 3-4 years, during which it might cost €900 total. Staff work at UCD for up to 40 years. 40 years x the administration's very conservative estimate of €515 per annum = at least €20,600 paid by a UCD worker over the course of his/her career for the privilege of going to work.I'll probably have to fork out the bones of €6k next year for continuing my course alone. Plus the, if Tayto is correct, another €300 or so just to park.
I have a couple of responses to this:
1) your fees still don't come close to paying the actual cost of your education;
2) this is an issue for your union.
I have no doubt that, were the UCD students' union to make common cause with the three workers' trade unions at UCD, it would be quite easy to get the administration to climb down on this. Unfortunately, the UCD students' union seems more interested in antagonising the workers' unions (with calls for further pay cuts, notably) and, trust me, that hasn't been forgotten. In that context, students and their union are probably on their own. And if they are too weak to fight it (and all signs are that they are), I expect the resolution here to be something like this:
Staff get free parking permits while students pay a higher than .50/hour fee to compensate for the lost revenue from staff.I'm not saying UCD owe me anything but asking for more money is ludicrous especially when there is no need to charge for parking in my eyes.
Well, surely you can admit that there is a need for something to be done about the parking problem. How many wasted student and staff hours are spent looking for parking? Those wasted staff hours cost money. Wasted student hours, on the other hand, cost nothing.0
Advertisement