Tell us the hourly rate of public servants.

Methinks purplecow1977 is taking the pee. For an educated person not to know exactly what they earn and pay in taxes is unbelievable.

FixdePitchmark

purplecow1977 wrote: »

What an ignorant comment to make.
25 hours a week?
Are you joking?
I'm not getting into this.

Do you know what I mean by annualised ?
Be carefull throwing around ignorant - it is just maths.

You said 35 hours a week.

You work 3/4 of the weeks a normal person does - I'm using your figures.

The answer to question 1 is 26.25 hrs/week. You get breaks too at odd times.

relax carry on

Maryanne84 wrote: »

Methinks purplecow1977 is taking the pee. For an educated person not to know exactly what they earn and pay in taxes is unbelievable.

I have first hand knowledge of a paye customer service area so believe me when I say the vast bulk of people I dealt with over a 2 and a half year period had little to no idea what they earned or paid in tax. This ranged all the way up from school going teenagers to people in their 70s. They were employed in various professions.
Some would come in and had to shown how to read their payslip. Others would appear each January like clockwork demanding tax back when they either had paid no tax or hadn't even worked the previous tax year.

purplecow1977

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Do you know what I mean by annualised ?
Be carefull throwing around ignorant - it is just maths.

You said 35 hours a week.

You work 3/4 of the weeks a normal person does - I'm using your figures.

The answer to question 1 is 26.25 hrs/week. You get breaks too at odd times.

Right grand yeah I'm loaded *rolls eyes* Do you KNOW what a salary is? It has already been stated what my current salary is. Why drone on and on [and on and on] about how many weeks or days I work/don't work. Jealous much?

I lied - I actually get paid so much money that I can't keep track of it all, hence MARY the reason for not knowing how much tax I pay.

I admit, I have a BMW 5 series that is parked in the garage of my very fancy detached house in a very upmarket area of Athlone. I've been playing Farmville all evening on Facebook and don't know what I'm doing in class tomorrow - I'll decide tomorrow. I leave school every day at 3pm and put my feet up on the velvet footstool watching The Afternoon Show. Even if the government taxed me another 10% I'd barely notice.

Over and out.

purplecow1977

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Do you honestly - like honestly - have to do 1 to 2 hours a day after school every single day. Are there not times during the day that the work can be fit in and also - is there not repeatability year to year - this idea that summer holidays are spent devising the next years seems a bit far fetched ?

I'm lstening.

A teacher I had, spent - 2 to 3 hours a day reading the paper. Can a teacher be sacked - how many were sacked last year ?

Honestly yes I would have to spend minimum 1 hour of doing work after school. I can do some things during the day if they're working on a task, or some days I had my lunch at my desk & did my work there, but you'd still have 1/2 hours after school to do.

I don't spend my summer holidays devising plans, but I do admittedly spend the last week or so preparing things. A new class brings new challenges and nobody knows everything - you'll always be met with a new child who turns your world upside down [or at least tries!]

A teacher you had that read the paper for 2-3 hours SHOULD have been sacked. For so many reasons. I don't know of any teacher who has been sacked, and I admit, there are most likely a few around [isn't there in every profession?] but how can that be tackled? Performance related pay? Standardised test results? I'm all for getting rid of the wans who don't do any work - genuinely I am. But please don't lump us all into the same category of teacher as the one you had that read the paper for half the day. I work very hard at my job.

purplecow1977

Deleted User wrote: »

Methinks purplecow1977 is taking the pee. For an educated person not to know exactly what they earn and pay in taxes is unbelievable.

Rather shamefully I must admit then that I had to consult my payslip before typing what tax I paid! All I'm conscious of is what goes into my account each fortnight. So forgive me for thinking I was 'taking the pee' - I genuinely wasn't. My payslips get delivered to my parents house & when I get them generally I rip them open & glance at them in a hurry.

FixdePitchmark

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Right grand yeah I'm loaded *rolls eyes* Do you KNOW what a salary is? It has already been stated what my current salary is. Why drone on and on [and on and on] about how many weeks or days I work/don't work. Jealous much?

I lied - I actually get paid so much money that I can't keep track of it all, hence MARY the reason for not knowing how much tax I pay.

I admit, I have a BMW 5 series that is parked in the garage of my very fancy detached house in a very upmarket area of Athlone. I've been playing Farmville all evening on Facebook and don't know what I'm doing in class tomorrow - I'll decide tomorrow. I leave school every day at 3pm and put my feet up on the velvet footstool watching The Afternoon Show. Even if the government taxed me another 10% I'd barely notice.

Over and out.

Well we are getting places now - people are on for a poor mouth - but not a false poor mouth.

It is the best job in the country. And none can get sacked - we have all had one who should have been.

FixdePitchmark

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Honestly yes I would have to spend minimum 1 hour of doing work after school. I can do some things during the day if they're working on a task, or some days I had my lunch at my desk & did my work there, but you'd still have 1/2 hours after school to do.

I don't spend my summer holidays devising plans, but I do admittedly spend the last week or so preparing things. A new class brings new challenges and nobody knows everything - you'll always be met with a new child who turns your world upside down [or at least tries!]

A teacher you had that read the paper for 2-3 hours SHOULD have been sacked. For so many reasons. I don't know of any teacher who has been sacked, and I admit, there are most likely a few around [isn't there in every profession?] but how can that be tackled? Performance related pay? Standardised test results? I'm all for getting rid of the wans who don't do any work - genuinely I am. But please don't lump us all into the same category of teacher as the one you had that read the paper for half the day. I work very hard at my job.

So this is the problem.

You underestimated and gave a net pay - that is why you were tackled.
You went on about 2-3 hours a night - now it is 1/2 hour. (I think zero some nights)
Your summer holidays you can watch Afternoon Show.
You don't understand the 26.25 hour a week annualisation - I'm ignorant.
You think an honours degree is a big deal - you need a 1-1 , 2-1 for most jobs,
You don't understand the value of your time off - it is just me, jealous.

I respect teachers , but the way they go on, only damages themselves.

Sorry , if my grammar is/was wrong - the guy was reading The Times.

amen

I divided my net pay each fortnight by 70 to get the net hourly figure

I'm trying to follow what purplecow1977 is saying and I am very confused.

It is my understanding that teachers are contracted a various number of hours per week which varies depending on contract type, full time, temporary whole time, eligible part time etc. In a secondary school the maximum is a 22 hour teaching week (supervision of extra class may be required but that is outside of the core 22 hours, primary teacher. A bit out of date for primary schools but think it is around 28 hours 20 minutes a week. This is the working day and include break time. Again teachers have to provide supervision but in most Irish primary schools the SNAs now provide break/yard supervision.

I know there will be mention of preparation time, homework correction but I know a lot of teachers and very few of them actually correct homework at home (done during school) and as for lesson plans.....Even though if they did perform this work there are many other professions who also perform work outside of core hours for no pay.

Teachers are not paid for holidays but their salary for contracted hours split over the full year giving them the same salary every two weeks.

The idea of using an net figure is useless as everyone may have different net figures depending on their personal circumstances (mortgage relief, pension plan, married etc)

Hourly figures should always be a Gross figure allowing an easy comparsion of the gross salary of various professions, trades, jobs etc.

Primary schools must be open for 183 days a year.
Taking the 5 hours 40 minute school day we get 1037 teaching hours a year for primary teachers.

Primary schools must be open for 167 days a year.
This 167 can be broken down into 33.4 weeks. Taking the 22 hour contracted week this gives approx 734 teaching hours a year.

A primary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €37.61.

A secondary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

*Figures taken from the INTO and ASTI websites. Teachers also get an allowance for a having a degree, HDip etc. As a degree is required to teach the allowance is just a bonus. There are many jobs that require a degree and the person performing the job is not provided a bonus for having the degree.

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €53.13.

For secondary teachers there is also the option to supervise exams, correct exam papers, provide grinds etc

Teacher attending Exam Marking Seminars also get unvouched over night expenses.

Jogathon

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Do you honestly - like honestly - have to do 1 to 2 hours a day after school every single day. Are there not times during the day that the work can be fit in and also - is there not repeatability year to year - this idea that summer holidays are spent devising the next years seems a bit far fetched ?

I'm lstening.

A teacher I had, spent - 2 to 3 hours a day reading the paper. Can a teacher be sacked - how many were sacked last year ?

No, I don't have to spend 1-2 hours in school every single day. However, I try to do a good job, and so I would spend that time daily on average. I left school today at 4.10 (1 hour and 40 mins after the bell went) and have just spent since about 8 writing an iep for a child with specific learning needs (that's another hour and a half of work). Now I'm going to have a shower, a nice cuppa in front of the fire and go to bed.

Tomorrow I am going to scoot out from school because I have an important personal appointment.

Last Saturday, I paid (yes I paid from my own pocket), for a course on the use of iPads with children. €90, and my Saturday gone. I wanted to do it, but it's an invisible overtime. Please take into account this kind of work which happens more frequently than you think.

purplecow1977

amen wrote: »

I'm trying to follow what purplecow1977 is saying and I am very confused.

It is my understanding that teachers are contracted a various number of hours per week which varies depending on contract type, full time, temporary whole time, eligible part time etc. In a secondary school the maximum is a 22 hour teaching week (supervision of extra class may be required but that is outside of the core 22 hours, primary teacher. A bit out of date for primary schools but think it is around 28 hours 20 minutes a week. This is the working day and include break time. Again teachers have to provide supervision but in most Irish primary schools the SNAs now provide break/yard supervision.

I know there will be mention of preparation time, homework correction but I know a lot of teachers and very few of them actually correct homework at home (done during school) and as for lesson plans.....Even though if they did perform this work there are many other professions who also perform work outside of core hours for no pay.

Teachers are not paid for holidays but their salary for contracted hours split over the full year giving them the same salary every two weeks.

The idea of using an net figure is useless as everyone may have different net figures depending on their personal circumstances (mortgage relief, pension plan, married etc)

Hourly figures should always be a Gross figure allowing an easy comparsion of the gross salary of various professions, trades, jobs etc.

Primary schools must be open for 183 days a year.
Taking the 5 hours 40 minute school day we get 1037 teaching hours a year for primary teachers.

Primary schools must be open for 167 days a year.
This 167 can be broken down into 33.4 weeks. Taking the 22 hour contracted week this gives approx 734 teaching hours a year.

A primary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €37.61.

A secondary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

*Figures taken from the INTO and ASTI websites. Teachers also get an allowance for a having a degree, HDip etc. As a degree is required to teach the allowance is just a bonus. There are many jobs that require a degree and the person performing the job is not provided a bonus for having the degree.

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €53.13.

For secondary teachers there is also the option to supervise exams, correct exam papers, provide grinds etc

Teacher attending Exam Marking Seminars also get unvouched over night expenses.

Someone was busy!!!!

What do I say to that? Eh. Nothing! What CAN I say! But wow, I must be paid incorrectly - because €53.13 per hour you say? Wow. Will really have to ring payroll tomorrow and get them to sort this out for me!!

I gave NET figures as personally, what goes into my hand is all that matters to me.

I shall say no more about the subject as you have said it all!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Edited to add: My bad, was looking at the figures given for secondary. My gross hourly would be €37!

FixdePitchmark

Jogathon wrote: »

No, I don't have to spend 1-2 hours in school every single day. However, I try to do a good job, and so I would spend that time daily on average. I left school today at 4.10 (1 hour and 40 mins after the bell went) and have just spent since about 8 writing an iep for a child with specific learning needs (that's another hour and a half of work). Now I'm going to have a shower, a nice cuppa in front of the fire and go to bed.

Tomorrow I am going to scoot out from school because I have an important personal appointment.

Last Saturday, I paid (yes I paid from my own pocket), for a course on the use of iPads with children. €90, and my Saturday gone. I wanted to do it, but it's an invisible overtime. Please take into account this kind of work which happens more frequently than you think.

Well you are a good one.

But - I do think teachers talk up, this at home work big time. They should know subject, they should be able to do at work.

Just goint around saying, I spend hours every night doing this and that - you hear them on the debates there - hard for anybody to buy into that. They do some - but a bit like your Homework as a kid , you could get it done on the day if needed.

I had teachers who would correct like mad in class, had drink problems, would walk in and say do question 1 to 26, read paper. There is no way they became perfect teacher at home and not in class.

By the way, I think the wages are not great for new teachers now. I'd say very few of the ones on here giving stick, are on below 39,000 euro.

AltAccount

amen wrote: »

The idea of using an net figure is useless as everyone may have different net figures depending on their personal circumstances (mortgage relief, pension plan, married etc)

Hourly figures should always be a Gross figure allowing an easy comparsion of the gross salary of various professions, trades, jobs etc.

I heartily agree with this, and believe the use of post-tax figures is a disingenuous tactic that seems to be used by some who argue for the Public and Civil Services.

"That's what I'm paid, because I'm paid by the government, but they take some of it back and therefore my actual pay by my employer is <net figure>".

amen wrote: »

Primary schools must be open for 183 days a year.
Taking the 5 hours 40 minute school day we get 1037 teaching hours a year for primary teachers.

Primary schools must be open for 167 days a year.
This 167 can be broken down into 33.4 weeks. Taking the 22 hour contracted week this gives approx 734 teaching hours a year.

A primary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €37.61.

A secondary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

These sums are equally disingenuous IMHO. I don't think it's fair to break a teacher's salary into only "official hours worked" and use that as a real hourly figure.
I envy teachers their extended holidays and relatively shortened working week, but unless they have the ability to get a job for those weeks off in a consistent manner, with a consistent salary, then you can't presume that they're hours with exactly equal earning potential.

fall

A full time secondary school teacher will have class contact of 22 hours. They will also usually be a tutor to a group of thirty students. A lot of non class contact during the day will be spent dealing with discipline issues, meeting parents, dealing with students with personal issues, illness etc. this is daily. Correcting time during the school day rarely happens. All incidents that occurr have to be documented and records kept. There is a huge amount of administrative work on a daily basis as on an average day will teach over 150 students all with individual needs.
Then you have teachers assigned/ involved in different teams, eg anti bullying, school marketing, students of concern etc.. This all requires meeting time and again record keeping and administration.
In terms of preparation time the courses change quite frequently these days and with the introduction of digital projectors, Internet access and now Moodle, the constant updating and research of new methodologies is endless, but exciting and inspiring. These new resources often require tweaking as they may be from another country. Schemes of work are written year reflecting the new group of students, their ability and needs. It is rare that the same scheme can be used twice as no two groups of students are the same.
This is a brief synopsis of a teachers job before we even mention extra curricular, staff meetings, parent teacher meetings and open nights.
Not all teachers are good, some are appalling and should be sacked but the majority are dedicated and hard working. 35 hours a week? And the rest....

FixdePitchmark

fall wrote: »

A full time secondary school teacher will have class contact of 22 hours. They will also usually be a tutor to a group of thirty students. A lot of non class contact during the day will be spent dealing with discipline issues, meeting parents, dealing with students with personal issues, illness etc. this is daily. Correcting time during the school day rarely happens. All incidents that occurr have to be documented and records kept. There is a huge amount of administrative work on a daily basis as on an average day will teach over 150 students all with individual needs.
Then you have teachers assigned/ involved in different teams, eg anti bullying, school marketing, students of concern etc.. This all requires meeting time and again record keeping and administration.
In terms of preparation time the courses change quite frequently these days and with the introduction of digital projectors, Internet access and now Moodle, the constant updating and research of new methodologies is endless, but exciting and inspiring. These new resources often require tweaking as they may be from another country. Schemes of work are written year reflecting the new group of students, their ability and needs. It is rare that the same scheme can be used twice as no two groups of students are the same.
This is a brief synopsis of a teachers job before we even mention extra curricular, staff meetings, parent teacher meetings and open nights.
Not all teachers are good, some are appalling and should be sacked but the majority are dedicated and hard working. 35 hours a week? And the rest....

I think you are reaching a bit there. A bit too forced, or interview speak.

No doubt all that goes on - but that is a job description for anybody working in a modern job, or any industry.

New technology should improve things , if not - that is not great teaching.
Come on , how many Open Nights do you have to go to.

How many hours a night outside of your normal hours do you need to do these evening hours they go on about.

fall

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I think you are reaching a bit there. A bit too forced, or interview speak.

No doubt all that goes on - but that is a job description for anybody working in a modern job, or any industry.

New technology should improve things , if not - that is not great teaching.
Come on , how many Open Nights do you have to go to.

How many hours a night outside of your normal hours do you need to do these evening hours they go on about.

Not interview speak at all. I am talking about the average full time teacher. I wanted to keep it factual. On a personal note I am on site ready to work at eight every morning ( Here now) and I don't leave before half four. There is also at least one late evening a week which could be Croke park hours, school show, debate competitions etc. an average school show will see a week of not leaving the school until ten at night. People ask for facts and then criticise the style when the information doesn't suit them. Also classroom hours are intense as there is one of you and thirty of them. Please think back to your own school days. Teenagers can be vey difficult to deal with. Have to go. Doing eight o'clock detention

Chris_5339762

I'm up on the mid 40ks at the moment, and was just looking back at old payslips. I've been incrementing as normal but at the moment am getting ~ 12% less NET than I was back in 2008.

Would people consider 12% less as 'enough' of a cut, when coupled with the 2 hour increase in working hours proposed? Assuming also that there is no prospect for promotion, which I am probably due at this stage.

sbsquarepants

Deleted User wrote: »

Some public service workers are on low wage. Not all are on the 35 hour weeks for €60k plus.

That is undoubtably true, however 1 in every 6 (and remember there are over 300,000 of them, so we're talking in excess of 50,000 people) currently earns over 60k- surely that is absolutely ridiculous?

Gumbo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

surely that is absolutely ridiculous?

Depends on the job.
Surely its ridiculous to thrash somebodies salary based on a stastic?

FixdePitchmark

fall wrote: »

Not interview speak at all. I am talking about the average full time teacher. I wanted to keep it factual. On a personal note I am on site ready to work at eight every morning ( Here now) and I don't leave before half four. There is also at least one late evening a week which could be Croke park hours, school show, debate competitions etc. an average school show will see a week of not leaving the school until ten at night. People ask for facts and then criticise the style when the information doesn't suit them. Also classroom hours are intense as there is one of you and thirty of them. Please think back to your own school days. Teenagers can be vey difficult to deal with. Have to go. Doing eight o'clock detention

So - you were in at 8, this morning , but had detention to do. Does the time from 8 to 9 be paid - ever ?

fall

Never paid. Detention is held daily in our school by the majority of teachers. I do subject ones in the morning, so no homework, disruption in class etc. and then in the afternoon I detain any student from the group I am in charge of for issues on the corridor, repeat offenders for other subject teachers and so on and I am also available to see parents. I am part if the anti bullying team and we meet weekly during a working lunch to discuss cases. Other hours during the week are used to investigate claims and try to solve the issues. I also find that there are a lot of students coming from troubled homes. This creates a whole other level of work as these children have a huge variety of needs. I spent thirty minutes on the phone to a social worker today and I am attending a case conference for another student next week.
This is the work that has never been quantified. Everday is different.
I am also involved with reviewing school policies. Schools have a huge number of policies and reviewing, rewriting and tweaking these policies takes a lot of time as they have to constantly reflect the current needs of the school. All the admin that teachers do is again unquantified.

FixdePitchmark

fall wrote: »

Never paid. Detention is held daily in our school by the majority of teachers. I do subject ones in the morning, so no homework, disruption in class etc. and then in the afternoon I detain any student from the group I am in charge of for issues on the corridor, repeat offenders for other subject teachers and so on and I am also available to see parents. I am part if the anti bullying team and we meet weekly during a working lunch to discuss cases. Other hours during the week are used to investigate claims and try to solve the issues. I also find that there are a lot of students coming from troubled homes. This creates a whole other level of work as these children have a huge variety of needs. I spent thirty minutes on the phone to a social worker today and I am attending a case conference for another student next week.
This is the work that has never been quantified. Everday is different.
I am also involved with reviewing school policies. Schools have a huge number of policies and reviewing, rewriting and tweaking these policies takes a lot of time as they have to constantly reflect the current needs of the school. All the admin that teachers do is again unquantified.

Fair play.

Going in at 8 to 9 for no time or pay.

sbsquarepants

kceire wrote: »

Depends on the job.
Surely its ridiculous to thrash somebodies salary based on a stastic?

No, not in this case it's not.
That's almost 17% of the "workforce" i don't see much evidence of how this is merited - practically every public service body i've ever had to deal with has been pretty much a shambles, where are all these people deserving this kind of money? What are they doing?
I heard an interesting statistic the other day - New Zealand for a comparable population size, employs 34,000 civil servants. In our system just the super duper core, the cream of the crop, somehow deserving of 60k plus comes to almost 1 and a half times their total, plus a quarter of a million extra employees on top of that.
How can that make sense?

Riskymove

sbsquarepants wrote: »

New Zealand for a comparable population size, employs 34,000 civil servants. In our system just the super duper core, the cream of the crop, somehow deserving of 60k plus comes to almost 1 and a half times their total, plus a quarter of a million extra employees on top of that.

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

Godge

Riskymove wrote: »

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

You didn't expect expert accurate statistics from someone criticising the public service, did you?

antoobrien

Riskymove wrote: »

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

itzme

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

Nor have they much reason to.
However, it's pretty easy to understand that if you're comparing numbers you compare like with like.
Ireland has ~300,000 public servants and 30,000 civil servants
New Zealand has X,000 public servants? and 34,00 civil servants.

Riskymove

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

well if you are gonna claim that NZ has 34,000 Civil servants and we have 300,000 I think tis important to know the difference

Godge

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

Certainly those who are making spurious comparisons with other countries do not care.

sbsquarepants

Riskymove wrote: »

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

Riskymove wrote: »

well if you are gonna claim that NZ has 34,000 Civil servants and we have 300,000 I think tis important to know the difference

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

Well you live and learn everyday. The actual statistic i heard was that NZ has 34,00 public sector employees, whereas we have roughly ten times as many (to be perfectly honest, i thought the terms were interchangeable, i'd imagine that most people do)

Gumbo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well you live and learn everyday. The actual statistic i heard was that NZ has 34,00 public sector employees, whereas we have roughly ten times as many (to be perfectly honest, i thought the terms were interchangeable, i'd imagine that most people do)

where did you see the statistic?

antoobrien

Godge wrote: »

Certainly those who are making spurious comparisons with other countries do not care.

As opposed to making an honest mistake base on an obscure factoid.

The PS paranoia wagon is in full flow.

sbsquarepants

kceire wrote: »

where did you see the statistic?

I heard it on George Hooks show on newstalk, i'm nearly sure it was this day last week.

Gumbo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I heard it on George Hooks show on newstalk, i'm nearly sure it was this day last week.

Yeah just curious meself, it seems that in 2011, state employee numbers were at 43,000 but this is just state employees, which deal with core state issues etc
They seem to have a different term for say hospital staff (OUR hse).

I would like to see how many actual public servants they do have as they seem to get a lot of acknowledment for their public service from abroad but internally they say its not the best model to use.

NZ, a few years ago split up government departmenst and PS bodies and essentially made them all competitive, but i fail to see how a population of 4.4 million can work with only 43k Civil/Public Servants.

sbsquarepants

I didn't catch the full show, just about 15 mins in the car. I was assuming they must sub out a lot of jobs to private companies or something along those lines. But at least with a system like that (if that is their system?) if you're not happy with the service you can change - you aren't contractually obliged to pay them ever increasing amounts till retirement, then pensions - even after they're dead in some cases!!

Evenstevens

Head The Wall wrote: »

I'm sure we will have people on here deriding the average but when you have clerical officers doing basic work on 35k a year which equates to 20 an hour there is something seriously wrong with the wage levels.

I know a few clerical officers at this level and the work they do does not warrant this wage, this is a role that doesn't even require a leaving cert ffs.

I'm nowhere near that on the bottom grade and have been doing work previously done by a Grade 7 whose contract was not renewed.

2ndcoming

I am a CO in Revenue. I work in the highest population district in Dublin with upwards of 400,000 customers. This is one of 5 districts in Dublin, and in the PAYE area alone per week we receive 2,500 telephone queries approx from taxpayers, employers and tax agents/accountants, and also 1000 items of post/e-mail correspondence. That's this district alone, you could multiply that by 4.5 to get the total figure for Dublin calls/correspondence per week. I would love to see any private sector company that could claim anything even vaguely near these figures. There are 10 full-time COs here and 5 part-time (work sharing).

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

Riskymove

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I didn't catch the full show, just about 15 mins in the car.

It seems their researcher didn't try very hard


see here:

http://www.ssc.govt.nz/state_sector_organisations

what NZ calls Public Service Departments are the equivalent of our Civil service


Police, Education and many more bodies are not counted as "Public Service Departments" but are still part of their equivalent PS

OMD

2ndcoming wrote: »

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

So in 5 years, with all the cuts, pension levy, pay cuts etc your take home pay has increased. Many people would love to be in your position.

Your hourly pay is €16.95. Assuming 39 hour week that means you earn €34,374 a year. Why are you only taking home €413 a week. You should be earning over €470 a week. More if you are married and your spouse is not working. Have you transferred some of your tax credits to your partner? If so you should state this as it makes your pay look substantially less than it actually is.

woodoo

OMD wrote: »

So in 5 years, with all the cuts, pension levy, pay cuts etc your take home pay has increased. Many people would love to be in your position.

Your hourly pay is €16.95. Assuming 39 hour week that means you earn €34,374 a year. Why are you only taking home €413 a week. You should be earning over €470 a week. More if you are married and your spouse is not working. Have you transferred some of your tax credits to your partner? If so you should state this as it makes your pay look substantially less than it actually is.

Its most likely a 35hr week. 9 to 5 hour for lunch.

Head The Wall

2ndcoming wrote: »

I am a CO in Revenue. I work in the highest population district in Dublin with upwards of 400,000 customers. This is one of 5 districts in Dublin, and in the PAYE area alone per week we receive 2,500 telephone queries approx from taxpayers, employers and tax agents/accountants, and also 1000 items of post/e-mail correspondence. That's this district alone, you could multiply that by 4.5 to get the total figure for Dublin calls/correspondence per week. I would love to see any private sector company that could claim anything even vaguely near these figures. There are 10 full-time COs here and 5 part-time (work sharing).

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

What exactly are you looking for here, if it's pity well you're in the wrong place.

You are on the same take home now as you were when you started, you are living proof of the so called joke that is the PS pay freeze.

Did you have your mortgage before joining the PS. If you didn't it looks like "you" decided to get a mortgage that was going to take up 50% of your salary. That is solely your problem and no one else's, the fact that you bought when the recession was either kicking in or was in full swing is a prime example of your bad decision making. Was it a case of riding the PS gravy train where pretty much nobody gets fired and wages only ever go up?

woodoo

2ndcoming wrote: »

I am a CO in Revenue. I work in the highest population district in Dublin with upwards of 400,000 customers. This is one of 5 districts in Dublin, and in the PAYE area alone per week we receive 2,500 telephone queries approx from taxpayers, employers and tax agents/accountants, and also 1000 items of post/e-mail correspondence. That's this district alone, you could multiply that by 4.5 to get the total figure for Dublin calls/correspondence per week. I would love to see any private sector company that could claim anything even vaguely near these figures. There are 10 full-time COs here and 5 part-time (work sharing).

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

I would guess you took out your mortgage before the recession on the basis that you would be earning more money as the years went by with increments etc. Then the recession hit. There are plenty more like you out there. Its unfortunate and i have sympathy for you.

If this deal goes through then your pay will have been cut 3 times. The 2010 paycut , then the pension levy and now the hourly paycut. That along with all the other taxes and charges. A take home wage of €413 is not a great deal for the hard work you do.

ninty9er

These are 2010 rates, since adjusted downwards, but it's the most recent published list

jasonbourne.cs

woodoo wrote: »

I would guess you took out your mortgage before the recession on the basis that you would be earning more money as the years went by with increments etc. Then the recession hit. There are plenty more like you out there. Its unfortunate and i have sympathy for you.

If this deal goes through then your pay will have been cut 3 times. The 2010 paycut , then the pension levy and now the hourly paycut. That along with all the other taxes and charges. A take home wage of €413 is not a great deal for the hard work you do.

you'd swear the public sector was the only area that had pay cuts , I'm on a smaller wage than I was previously in the same timescale , also taking on almost two-three peoples roles as a result of " cost reduction " within the business .

I have no problem with the likes of nurses , gardai or doctors getting a fair wage due to the type of work that they undertake and the level of personal stress that they suffer as a result .

but I have no time for paper pushers who are pretty much guaranteed a job for life regardless of performance , my sympathies that you bought during the boom and that you are suffering as a choice of where you live .

2ndcoming

Head The Wall wrote: »

What exactly are you looking for here, if it's pity well you're in the wrong place.

You are on the same take home now as you were when you started, you are living proof of the so called joke that is the PS pay freeze.

Did you have your mortgage before joining the PS. If you didn't it looks like "you" decided to get a mortgage that was going to take up 50% of your salary. That is solely your problem and no one else's, the fact that you bought when the recession was either kicking in or was in full swing is a prime example of your bad decision making. Was it a case of riding the PS gravy train where pretty much nobody gets fired and wages only ever go up?

I don't usually rise to trolls, but in your case I think I'll make an exception. For starters I'm not sure what your understanding of the term "pay freeze" is, but I'm even more confused as to why you put "you" in inverted commas. Is it some sort of deep philosophical questioning of my existence?

I'm not looking for pity, I'm stating facts. The language of your post is almost abusive and deliberately provocative so you're clearly an ignorant, embittered and over-opinionated person person armed to the teeth with misinformation. You question the right of someone who has worked full-time for 10 years since finishing school and intends to work for the next 30 to buy a basic apartment in their hometown? Really?! In retrospect I should probably wish the bank had your sour negativity back in 2007. If anything I feel sorry for you, not the other way round.

It's too easy to dismantle your argument by saying if public service was such a gravy train with guaranteed free money how on Earth did you let it pass you by, but I'll just say if you think my job is easy I would like to see you try it for a few weeks and see if you still feel that way. I've been very transparent with the work I do and how much I'm paid for it, would you care to enlighten us as to the details of your employment?

Can you give me an example of the salary of someone in a similar role in a large nationwide business in the private sector with a similar customer base and workload? I didn't think so. The non availability to the public of these kinds of figures is vital to people who spout your particular brand of bile, but in my line of work, I see these figures everyday so I get a fuller picture than you or your average Indo hack, and I can assure I am not overpaid. I am relatively not well paid at all.

woodoo

jasonbourne.cs wrote: »

you'd swear the public sector was the only area that had pay cuts , I'm on a smaller wage than I was previously in the same timescale , also taking on almost two-three peoples roles as a result of " cost reduction " within the business .

If you can take on 2 or 3 peoples rolls then none of you had a full role in the first place.

OMD

2ndcoming wrote: »

I don't usually rise to trolls, but in your case I think I'll make an exception. For starters I'm not sure what your understanding of the term "pay freeze" is, but I'm even more confused as to why you put "you" in inverted commas. Is it some sort of deep philosophical questioning of my existence?

I'm not looking for pity, I'm stating facts. The language of your post is almost abusive and deliberately provocative so you're clearly an ignorant, embittered and over-opinionated person person armed to the teeth with misinformation. You question the right of someone who has worked full-time for 10 years since finishing school and intends to work for the next 30 to buy a basic apartment in their hometown? Really?! In retrospect I should probably wish the bank had your sour negativity back in 2007. If anything I feel sorry for you, not the other way round.

It's too easy to dismantle your argument by saying if public service was such a gravy train with guaranteed free money how on Earth did you let it pass you by, but I'll just say if you think my job is easy I would like to see you try it for a few weeks and see if you still feel that way. I've been very transparent with the work I do and how much I'm paid for it, would you care to enlighten us as to the details of your employment?

Can you give me an example of the salary of someone in a similar role in a large nationwide business in the private sector with a similar customer base and workload? I didn't think so. The non availability to the public of these kinds of figures is vital to people who spout your particular brand of bile, but in my line of work, I see these figures everyday so I get a fuller picture than you or your average Indo hack, and I can assure I am not overpaid. I am relatively not well paid at all.

Using the same argument you made, why not just leave and get a better, easier job in private sector?

jasonbourne.cs

woodoo wrote: »

If you can take on 2 or 3 peoples rolls then none of you had a full role in the first place.

2-3 three peoples roles with an overall poorer end result and stats , you pay for what you get ... you could have 1 person in a restaurant taking orders , cooking the food and serving the customers but its gonna be a sh1tty restaurant

skafish

Xenophile wrote: »

8.65 euro is our hourly minimum wage rate. Forget about telling us about groups that are paid from the public purse in terms of 30k,40k,50k,or 60k. etc per annum. Lets talk about the hourly rate for a better comparison. So when highly paid people are watching the operator checking out their groceries in the supermarket maybe they might reflect on the difference between their hourly wage rates.

Why start with the minimum wage? Most prople I know across all walks of life earn more that that (purely for example, my local German supermarket is currently looking for an 6 additional staff on a starting wage of €12.40 p/h). In addition, most people in the public sector have at least a degree, and in a lot of cases, higher qualifications.

If you want to start a rant against the P/S wage structure, at least make it a fair comparisson, and compare like with like.

beeno67

skafish wrote: »

In addition, most people in the public sector have at least a degree, and in a lot of cases, higher qualifications.

.

Are people still really impressed by degrees? Having a degree is nothing major. 30-40 years ago it was impressive. Now it is the equivalent of having done the leaving 30 years ago. Get over it. It is a piece of paper no more.