Tell us the hourly rate of public servants.

fall

Never paid. Detention is held daily in our school by the majority of teachers. I do subject ones in the morning, so no homework, disruption in class etc. and then in the afternoon I detain any student from the group I am in charge of for issues on the corridor, repeat offenders for other subject teachers and so on and I am also available to see parents. I am part if the anti bullying team and we meet weekly during a working lunch to discuss cases. Other hours during the week are used to investigate claims and try to solve the issues. I also find that there are a lot of students coming from troubled homes. This creates a whole other level of work as these children have a huge variety of needs. I spent thirty minutes on the phone to a social worker today and I am attending a case conference for another student next week.
This is the work that has never been quantified. Everday is different.
I am also involved with reviewing school policies. Schools have a huge number of policies and reviewing, rewriting and tweaking these policies takes a lot of time as they have to constantly reflect the current needs of the school. All the admin that teachers do is again unquantified.

FixdePitchmark

fall wrote: »

Never paid. Detention is held daily in our school by the majority of teachers. I do subject ones in the morning, so no homework, disruption in class etc. and then in the afternoon I detain any student from the group I am in charge of for issues on the corridor, repeat offenders for other subject teachers and so on and I am also available to see parents. I am part if the anti bullying team and we meet weekly during a working lunch to discuss cases. Other hours during the week are used to investigate claims and try to solve the issues. I also find that there are a lot of students coming from troubled homes. This creates a whole other level of work as these children have a huge variety of needs. I spent thirty minutes on the phone to a social worker today and I am attending a case conference for another student next week.
This is the work that has never been quantified. Everday is different.
I am also involved with reviewing school policies. Schools have a huge number of policies and reviewing, rewriting and tweaking these policies takes a lot of time as they have to constantly reflect the current needs of the school. All the admin that teachers do is again unquantified.

Fair play.

Going in at 8 to 9 for no time or pay.

sbsquarepants

kceire wrote: »

Depends on the job.
Surely its ridiculous to thrash somebodies salary based on a stastic?

No, not in this case it's not.
That's almost 17% of the "workforce" i don't see much evidence of how this is merited - practically every public service body i've ever had to deal with has been pretty much a shambles, where are all these people deserving this kind of money? What are they doing?
I heard an interesting statistic the other day - New Zealand for a comparable population size, employs 34,000 civil servants. In our system just the super duper core, the cream of the crop, somehow deserving of 60k plus comes to almost 1 and a half times their total, plus a quarter of a million extra employees on top of that.
How can that make sense?

Riskymove

sbsquarepants wrote: »

New Zealand for a comparable population size, employs 34,000 civil servants. In our system just the super duper core, the cream of the crop, somehow deserving of 60k plus comes to almost 1 and a half times their total, plus a quarter of a million extra employees on top of that.

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

Godge

Riskymove wrote: »

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

You didn't expect expert accurate statistics from someone criticising the public service, did you?

antoobrien

Riskymove wrote: »

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

itzme

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

Nor have they much reason to.
However, it's pretty easy to understand that if you're comparing numbers you compare like with like.
Ireland has ~300,000 public servants and 30,000 civil servants
New Zealand has X,000 public servants? and 34,00 civil servants.

Riskymove

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

well if you are gonna claim that NZ has 34,000 Civil servants and we have 300,000 I think tis important to know the difference

Godge

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

Certainly those who are making spurious comparisons with other countries do not care.

sbsquarepants

Riskymove wrote: »

Ireland only has around 30,000 civil servants

Riskymove wrote: »

well if you are gonna claim that NZ has 34,000 Civil servants and we have 300,000 I think tis important to know the difference

antoobrien wrote: »

Most people do not know (or care) that a nurse, teacher or Garda is not a civil servant.

Well you live and learn everyday. The actual statistic i heard was that NZ has 34,00 public sector employees, whereas we have roughly ten times as many (to be perfectly honest, i thought the terms were interchangeable, i'd imagine that most people do)

Gumbo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well you live and learn everyday. The actual statistic i heard was that NZ has 34,00 public sector employees, whereas we have roughly ten times as many (to be perfectly honest, i thought the terms were interchangeable, i'd imagine that most people do)

where did you see the statistic?

antoobrien

Godge wrote: »

Certainly those who are making spurious comparisons with other countries do not care.

As opposed to making an honest mistake base on an obscure factoid.

The PS paranoia wagon is in full flow.

sbsquarepants

kceire wrote: »

where did you see the statistic?

I heard it on George Hooks show on newstalk, i'm nearly sure it was this day last week.

Gumbo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I heard it on George Hooks show on newstalk, i'm nearly sure it was this day last week.

Yeah just curious meself, it seems that in 2011, state employee numbers were at 43,000 but this is just state employees, which deal with core state issues etc
They seem to have a different term for say hospital staff (OUR hse).

I would like to see how many actual public servants they do have as they seem to get a lot of acknowledment for their public service from abroad but internally they say its not the best model to use.

NZ, a few years ago split up government departmenst and PS bodies and essentially made them all competitive, but i fail to see how a population of 4.4 million can work with only 43k Civil/Public Servants.

sbsquarepants

I didn't catch the full show, just about 15 mins in the car. I was assuming they must sub out a lot of jobs to private companies or something along those lines. But at least with a system like that (if that is their system?) if you're not happy with the service you can change - you aren't contractually obliged to pay them ever increasing amounts till retirement, then pensions - even after they're dead in some cases!!

Evenstevens

Head The Wall wrote: »

I'm sure we will have people on here deriding the average but when you have clerical officers doing basic work on 35k a year which equates to 20 an hour there is something seriously wrong with the wage levels.

I know a few clerical officers at this level and the work they do does not warrant this wage, this is a role that doesn't even require a leaving cert ffs.

I'm nowhere near that on the bottom grade and have been doing work previously done by a Grade 7 whose contract was not renewed.

2ndcoming

I am a CO in Revenue. I work in the highest population district in Dublin with upwards of 400,000 customers. This is one of 5 districts in Dublin, and in the PAYE area alone per week we receive 2,500 telephone queries approx from taxpayers, employers and tax agents/accountants, and also 1000 items of post/e-mail correspondence. That's this district alone, you could multiply that by 4.5 to get the total figure for Dublin calls/correspondence per week. I would love to see any private sector company that could claim anything even vaguely near these figures. There are 10 full-time COs here and 5 part-time (work sharing).

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

Riskymove

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I didn't catch the full show, just about 15 mins in the car.

It seems their researcher didn't try very hard


see here:

http://www.ssc.govt.nz/state_sector_organisations

what NZ calls Public Service Departments are the equivalent of our Civil service


Police, Education and many more bodies are not counted as "Public Service Departments" but are still part of their equivalent PS

OMD

2ndcoming wrote: »

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

So in 5 years, with all the cuts, pension levy, pay cuts etc your take home pay has increased. Many people would love to be in your position.

Your hourly pay is €16.95. Assuming 39 hour week that means you earn €34,374 a year. Why are you only taking home €413 a week. You should be earning over €470 a week. More if you are married and your spouse is not working. Have you transferred some of your tax credits to your partner? If so you should state this as it makes your pay look substantially less than it actually is.

woodoo

OMD wrote: »

So in 5 years, with all the cuts, pension levy, pay cuts etc your take home pay has increased. Many people would love to be in your position.

Your hourly pay is €16.95. Assuming 39 hour week that means you earn €34,374 a year. Why are you only taking home €413 a week. You should be earning over €470 a week. More if you are married and your spouse is not working. Have you transferred some of your tax credits to your partner? If so you should state this as it makes your pay look substantially less than it actually is.

Its most likely a 35hr week. 9 to 5 hour for lunch.

Head The Wall

2ndcoming wrote: »

I am a CO in Revenue. I work in the highest population district in Dublin with upwards of 400,000 customers. This is one of 5 districts in Dublin, and in the PAYE area alone per week we receive 2,500 telephone queries approx from taxpayers, employers and tax agents/accountants, and also 1000 items of post/e-mail correspondence. That's this district alone, you could multiply that by 4.5 to get the total figure for Dublin calls/correspondence per week. I would love to see any private sector company that could claim anything even vaguely near these figures. There are 10 full-time COs here and 5 part-time (work sharing).

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

What exactly are you looking for here, if it's pity well you're in the wrong place.

You are on the same take home now as you were when you started, you are living proof of the so called joke that is the PS pay freeze.

Did you have your mortgage before joining the PS. If you didn't it looks like "you" decided to get a mortgage that was going to take up 50% of your salary. That is solely your problem and no one else's, the fact that you bought when the recession was either kicking in or was in full swing is a prime example of your bad decision making. Was it a case of riding the PS gravy train where pretty much nobody gets fired and wages only ever go up?

woodoo

2ndcoming wrote: »

I am a CO in Revenue. I work in the highest population district in Dublin with upwards of 400,000 customers. This is one of 5 districts in Dublin, and in the PAYE area alone per week we receive 2,500 telephone queries approx from taxpayers, employers and tax agents/accountants, and also 1000 items of post/e-mail correspondence. That's this district alone, you could multiply that by 4.5 to get the total figure for Dublin calls/correspondence per week. I would love to see any private sector company that could claim anything even vaguely near these figures. There are 10 full-time COs here and 5 part-time (work sharing).

I started in 2007 with take home pay of €405 per week, and after 5 years of the income levy, USC, pension levy, pay cut and the much celebrated increments I have take home pay of €413 per week.

Working in Dublin has a doubly-damning effect in that there will naturally be far more work to do but the cost of living is far higher. €413 per week take-home would be a fine wage if I lived and worked as, let's say, a CO in Dept. of Agriculture in Cavan, I could rent a grand 3-bed semi for €400 a month and expect a slower pace to work and life in general.

My mortgage is currently €789 a month, and I'm a lucky one, I bought on the affordable housing scheme and I don't have any kids. I can get by. I fully understand how some of my colleagues with bigger mortgages and kids are actually the working poor.

You can talk all day about hourly rates and other waffle but my hourly rate (€16.95 if you must know) will not change the fact that my mortgage is just shy of 50% of my take home pay. Just like in taxes, we have gross rates (20%, 41%) and effective rates. The bottom line is the effective rate. My effective hourly rate is €11.88. Come July it will be €11.16.

Believe me if I could opt out of the pension I would. I won't see a penny of it til I'm 70 more than likely and hopefully I'll already have my mortgage paid off by then.

I would guess you took out your mortgage before the recession on the basis that you would be earning more money as the years went by with increments etc. Then the recession hit. There are plenty more like you out there. Its unfortunate and i have sympathy for you.

If this deal goes through then your pay will have been cut 3 times. The 2010 paycut , then the pension levy and now the hourly paycut. That along with all the other taxes and charges. A take home wage of €413 is not a great deal for the hard work you do.

ninty9er

These are 2010 rates, since adjusted downwards, but it's the most recent published list

jasonbourne.cs

woodoo wrote: »

I would guess you took out your mortgage before the recession on the basis that you would be earning more money as the years went by with increments etc. Then the recession hit. There are plenty more like you out there. Its unfortunate and i have sympathy for you.

If this deal goes through then your pay will have been cut 3 times. The 2010 paycut , then the pension levy and now the hourly paycut. That along with all the other taxes and charges. A take home wage of €413 is not a great deal for the hard work you do.

you'd swear the public sector was the only area that had pay cuts , I'm on a smaller wage than I was previously in the same timescale , also taking on almost two-three peoples roles as a result of " cost reduction " within the business .

I have no problem with the likes of nurses , gardai or doctors getting a fair wage due to the type of work that they undertake and the level of personal stress that they suffer as a result .

but I have no time for paper pushers who are pretty much guaranteed a job for life regardless of performance , my sympathies that you bought during the boom and that you are suffering as a choice of where you live .

2ndcoming

Head The Wall wrote: »

What exactly are you looking for here, if it's pity well you're in the wrong place.

You are on the same take home now as you were when you started, you are living proof of the so called joke that is the PS pay freeze.

Did you have your mortgage before joining the PS. If you didn't it looks like "you" decided to get a mortgage that was going to take up 50% of your salary. That is solely your problem and no one else's, the fact that you bought when the recession was either kicking in or was in full swing is a prime example of your bad decision making. Was it a case of riding the PS gravy train where pretty much nobody gets fired and wages only ever go up?

I don't usually rise to trolls, but in your case I think I'll make an exception. For starters I'm not sure what your understanding of the term "pay freeze" is, but I'm even more confused as to why you put "you" in inverted commas. Is it some sort of deep philosophical questioning of my existence?

I'm not looking for pity, I'm stating facts. The language of your post is almost abusive and deliberately provocative so you're clearly an ignorant, embittered and over-opinionated person person armed to the teeth with misinformation. You question the right of someone who has worked full-time for 10 years since finishing school and intends to work for the next 30 to buy a basic apartment in their hometown? Really?! In retrospect I should probably wish the bank had your sour negativity back in 2007. If anything I feel sorry for you, not the other way round.

It's too easy to dismantle your argument by saying if public service was such a gravy train with guaranteed free money how on Earth did you let it pass you by, but I'll just say if you think my job is easy I would like to see you try it for a few weeks and see if you still feel that way. I've been very transparent with the work I do and how much I'm paid for it, would you care to enlighten us as to the details of your employment?

Can you give me an example of the salary of someone in a similar role in a large nationwide business in the private sector with a similar customer base and workload? I didn't think so. The non availability to the public of these kinds of figures is vital to people who spout your particular brand of bile, but in my line of work, I see these figures everyday so I get a fuller picture than you or your average Indo hack, and I can assure I am not overpaid. I am relatively not well paid at all.

woodoo

jasonbourne.cs wrote: »

you'd swear the public sector was the only area that had pay cuts , I'm on a smaller wage than I was previously in the same timescale , also taking on almost two-three peoples roles as a result of " cost reduction " within the business .

If you can take on 2 or 3 peoples rolls then none of you had a full role in the first place.

OMD

2ndcoming wrote: »

I don't usually rise to trolls, but in your case I think I'll make an exception. For starters I'm not sure what your understanding of the term "pay freeze" is, but I'm even more confused as to why you put "you" in inverted commas. Is it some sort of deep philosophical questioning of my existence?

I'm not looking for pity, I'm stating facts. The language of your post is almost abusive and deliberately provocative so you're clearly an ignorant, embittered and over-opinionated person person armed to the teeth with misinformation. You question the right of someone who has worked full-time for 10 years since finishing school and intends to work for the next 30 to buy a basic apartment in their hometown? Really?! In retrospect I should probably wish the bank had your sour negativity back in 2007. If anything I feel sorry for you, not the other way round.

It's too easy to dismantle your argument by saying if public service was such a gravy train with guaranteed free money how on Earth did you let it pass you by, but I'll just say if you think my job is easy I would like to see you try it for a few weeks and see if you still feel that way. I've been very transparent with the work I do and how much I'm paid for it, would you care to enlighten us as to the details of your employment?

Can you give me an example of the salary of someone in a similar role in a large nationwide business in the private sector with a similar customer base and workload? I didn't think so. The non availability to the public of these kinds of figures is vital to people who spout your particular brand of bile, but in my line of work, I see these figures everyday so I get a fuller picture than you or your average Indo hack, and I can assure I am not overpaid. I am relatively not well paid at all.

Using the same argument you made, why not just leave and get a better, easier job in private sector?

jasonbourne.cs

woodoo wrote: »

If you can take on 2 or 3 peoples rolls then none of you had a full role in the first place.

2-3 three peoples roles with an overall poorer end result and stats , you pay for what you get ... you could have 1 person in a restaurant taking orders , cooking the food and serving the customers but its gonna be a sh1tty restaurant

skafish

Xenophile wrote: »

8.65 euro is our hourly minimum wage rate. Forget about telling us about groups that are paid from the public purse in terms of 30k,40k,50k,or 60k. etc per annum. Lets talk about the hourly rate for a better comparison. So when highly paid people are watching the operator checking out their groceries in the supermarket maybe they might reflect on the difference between their hourly wage rates.

Why start with the minimum wage? Most prople I know across all walks of life earn more that that (purely for example, my local German supermarket is currently looking for an 6 additional staff on a starting wage of €12.40 p/h). In addition, most people in the public sector have at least a degree, and in a lot of cases, higher qualifications.

If you want to start a rant against the P/S wage structure, at least make it a fair comparisson, and compare like with like.

beeno67

skafish wrote: »

In addition, most people in the public sector have at least a degree, and in a lot of cases, higher qualifications.

.

Are people still really impressed by degrees? Having a degree is nothing major. 30-40 years ago it was impressive. Now it is the equivalent of having done the leaving 30 years ago. Get over it. It is a piece of paper no more.