What are the security on Luas lines for?

ResearchWill

Del2005 wrote: »

It was during my Driver CPC that I saw it. Can't find anything about it now as I can never find anything when searching the Statute Book.

I can well imagine a driver being told, to call back up etc., but I can think of no blanket legal requirement to allow minors on public transport, especially if they are intoxicated, or armed or stealing. In fact I would think there is an obligation to deal with the matter.

Take an example, intoxicated children, pushing passengers, driver does nothing, this goes on for 30 mins, nothing done, bus/luas stops person gets on they are pushed they fall back onto platform, serious head injury, the lawyers would have a field day on the company and rightly so.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, I do not know why the person was prevented from boarding the luas but i suspected there may have been some previous case of fare evasion or pickpocketing or anti-social behaviour involved.

Not at all an opportunity to take any pop at on the ground security staff but I do wonder at luas policy in such situations and the effectiveness and costs of 5 security guards at one stop for almost an hour just for one person. wouldn't it be more effective to let him travel but travel with him and patrol the line while watching him and catch him if he committed any offence?

You suspected.....Hmmmm...yet earlier on you said he did'nt "Look like your average scumbag".

The reality is you know absolutely nothing of this incident,the individual concerned,the STT and Veiloa staff involved and/or the reasons for their particular course of action.

You are second guessing and perhaps this once it's best that we were'nt expected to take that as Gospel !!

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

You suspected.....Hmmmm...yet earlier on you said he did'nt "Look like your average scumbag".

The reality is you know absolutely nothing of this incident,the individual concerned,the STT and Veiloa staff involved and/or the reasons for their particular course of action.

You are second guessing and perhaps this once it's best that we were'nt expected to take that as Gospel !!

I suspected because of the persistence of the security people in keeping the person off the trams. are they going to be at every tram stop from now on to watch for this individual??

AlekSmart

ResearchWill wrote: »

I can well imagine a driver being told, to call back up etc., but I can think of no blanket legal requirement to allow minors on public transport, especially if they are intoxicated, or armed or stealing. In fact I would think there is an obligation to deal with the matter.

Take an example, intoxicated children, pushing passengers, driver does nothing, this goes on for 30 mins, nothing done, bus/luas stops person gets on they are pushed they fall back onto platform, serious head injury, the lawyers would have a field day on the company and rightly so.

The head of this particular pin,Research Will,revolves around the children actually gaining admission to your vehicle.

Once the child is on board your vehicle,then both the Busdriver and Vehicle Owner/Operator must observe a somewhat different set of parameters relating to what actions they can or cannot take.

As a Busdriver,I must not put a minor off my bus in any situation without first ensuring it is into the care of a Responsible Adult,Parent or Guardian.

This situation merely reflects the great weight which Courts will give to accusations of improper conduct towards a "child",including putting them off a bus.

Even Gardai are quite significantly hamstrung in relation to general misbehaving by "children",with quite a degree of extra paperwork and administrative work attendant upon securing HSE/Probation & Welfare personnell to act in loco parentis etc

The key,for a Busdriver,is in keeping these disruptive children off the bus in the first instance...then they are not the Drivers problem.....once on-board,they most certainly are...and are well aware of this :mad:

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

I suspected because of the persistence of the security people in keeping the person off the trams. are they going to be at every tram stop from now on to watch for this individual??

Doubtless whilst being observed and chided by your good self on each and every occasion..?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Doubtless whilst being observed and chided by your good self on each and every occasion..?

You don't know much(or anything at all) about me then.

monument

AlekSmart wrote: »

Doubtless whilst being observed and chided by your good self on each and every occasion..?

Please keep away from personalising the discussion.

And the two of you can cut it out - it's going nowhere good.

Mod.

Del2005

ResearchWill wrote: »

I can well imagine a driver being told, to call back up etc., but I can think of no blanket legal requirement to allow minors on public transport, especially if they are intoxicated, or armed or stealing. In fact I would think there is an obligation to deal with the matter.

Take an example, intoxicated children, pushing passengers, driver does nothing, this goes on for 30 mins, nothing done, bus/luas stops person gets on they are pushed they fall back onto platform, serious head injury, the lawyers would have a field day on the company and rightly so.

The law wasn't made with feral children we have today in mind.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The head of this particular pin,Research Will,revolves around the children actually gaining admission to your vehicle.

Once the child is on board your vehicle,then both the Busdriver and Vehicle Owner/Operator must observe a somewhat different set of parameters relating to what actions they can or cannot take.

As a Busdriver,I must not put a minor off my bus in any situation without first ensuring it is into the care of a Responsible Adult,Parent or Guardian.

This situation merely reflects the great weight which Courts will give to accusations of improper conduct towards a "child",including putting them off a bus.

Even Gardai are quite significantly hamstrung in relation to general misbehaving by "children",with quite a degree of extra paperwork and administrative work attendant upon securing HSE/Probation & Welfare personnell to act in loco parentis etc

The key,for a Busdriver,is in keeping these disruptive children off the bus in the first instance...then they are not the Drivers problem.....once on-board,they most certainly are...and are well aware of this :mad:

Thanks, it's been a while since I did the CPC.

Since there is no controlled access to the Luas there in lies the problem. The STT guys can't remove them and it's too much work for the Gardaí. I'm not blaming the Gardaí, as they know that even if they do remove them nothing will happen and they'll be back at it tomorrow.

ShadowFox

ResearchWill wrote: »

Can you point out where it is illegal to remove minors from public transport, does this include if they have a knife, or have committed an assault, or are intoxicated to such an extent they are a danger to themselves or others.

I dont know if its illegal as such but i do know its an unwritten rule regarding public transport It comes from about 10 years ago (maybe longer or shorter) a minor was refused travel on Dublin Bus because s/he had no money to pay the fair said minor walked home but was badly beaten (if memory serves me right) The parents sued Dublin Bus and were awarded a large amount ever since that no minor can or will be refused travel on public transport

ShadowFox

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, I do not know why the person was prevented from boarding the luas but i suspected there may have been some previous case of fare evasion or pickpocketing or anti-social behaviour involved.

Not at all an opportunity to take any pop at on the ground security staff but I do wonder at luas policy in such situations and the effectiveness and costs of 5 security guards at one stop for almost an hour just for one person. wouldn't it be more effective to let him travel but travel with him and patrol the line while watching him and catch him if he committed any offence?

Have you ever watched Road Wars/other cop shows on tv and see how many cops arrest someone ? This is done in this way to minimize injury to person or cops Im not saying it justifies 5 STT to one member of the public but I dont know who or what this member of the public was being stopped for There could have been 1000 reasons was he mentally unstable was he known to be violent was he known to carry weapons was he trying to jump in front of a Luas The only ones that know the answer to this are the 5 members of STT and the member of the public being refused travel