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Angel Alarms or Other? Price please.

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  • 25-02-2013 3:11pm
    #1
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭


    Hi. I contacted this company on Saturday to ask about an alarm. My best friend used them and i'm thinking of getting a house alarm off them too, but i'm not sure and wanted opinions here first.

    I'm based in North Dublin and I don't know exact specs, but with Angel, I would be getting 4 PIR sensors. 1 real alam box and 1 dummy box. A control panel with GSM unit as a separate item. 2 panic buttons and 2 remotes. I can turn the alarm on/off via mobile phone. Cash cost is €930, but they do a €25 per week plan with a finance company over 1 year....but that adds nearly €250 onto the cost. I could just borrow from the Credit Union, which would be much lower on finance, or I could just pay up front. My budget is 1k. Does that system sound a bit over priced? Any other recommendations? There is no alarm at the moment and the above system would leave no visible wires, which is important.

    The guy called to the house and is a nice chap, but I just want to be sure I am spending my money and getting good value. They have a website, but it doesn't really explain much. Help appreciated.


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    #2
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Shop around would be my advice. Just using PiRs is not a good system as someone has already gained access to your house before the alarm activates. Most good installers will protect the perimeter with contacts & sensors and back that up with a couple of PiRs. For the price quoted you could be able to get all ground floor & accessible windows covered with some PiRs as well.
    I presume when you say cash cost that includes the vat & certification of the alarm system.


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    #3
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Shop around would be my advice. Just using PiRs is not a good system as someone has already gained access to your house before the alarm activates. Most good installers will protect the perimeter with contacts & sensors and back that up with a couple of PiRs. For the price quoted you could be able to get all ground floor & accessible windows covered with some PiRs as well.
    I presume when you say cash cost that includes the vat & certification of the alarm system.

    Thanks KoolKid. I was avoiding door and window sensors to prevent false alarms. I have 2 big dogs out the back and they regulary jump at the back door. I don't know if it includes certification, or not. I assume it does, but i'm not sure.


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    #4
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The alarm would be able to be adjusted to allow for the dog etc. False alarms are not caused by sensors they are caused by faulty devices or badly installed systems.
    Again what ever you decide get at least 3 quotes and advice from other installers.


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    #5
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    KoolKid wrote: »
    The alarm would be able to be adjusted to allow for the dog etc. False alarms are not caused by sensors they are caused by faulty devices or badly installed systems.
    Again what ever you decide get at least 3 quotes and advice from other installers.

    Thanks alot. I will do that. Any recommendations?

    Semi detached house in North Dublin, 3 bed. Front of house consists of Front door to hallway, liviving room window and two bedroom windows. Small window at side of house. Back of house has double door in kitchen, plus one window. 2 windows upstairs into bathroom and bedroom. Ideally looking for GSM dialler. I asked about door sensors, but the Angel Alarm guy said I didn't need them, that the PIR sensor were good enough and the sensors cause false alarms, especially if the dogs jumped at the door.


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    #6
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Sounds to me that he's looking for an easier job. PIRs are cheap and quict to install.
    Inertia sensors are the most popular detection devices. If they were all causes of false alarms none of us would be using them. Going by what your saying you should be able to get perimeter protection with a couple of PiRs for the same price. Why do you want GSM?
    Do you have a home phone?
    Has this guy told you what system he is quoting you for?
    It is a requirement of the standards for him to supply you with a detailed system proposal.


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    #7
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Sounds to me that he's looking for an easier job. PIRs are cheap and quict to install.

    I suppose you're right. There would be less work if just PIR sensors were installed. I was just taking the guy at his word. His brother happens to live on my road and i've known that family my whole life.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Inertia sensors are the most popular detection devices. If they were all causes of false alarms none of us would be using them.

    I will take that on board when seeking out quotes and systems.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Going by what your saying you should be able to get perimeter protection with a couple of PiRs for the same price. Why do you want GSM?

    I thought GSM would be handy, so if the alarm went off while I was out, I would know about it; reset the alarm and if it went off again, I would know that there was a problem and a false alarm would be less likely this way.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Do you have a home phone?

    I did have a UPC phone until Saturday, but it's now disconnected, since I ported the number to blueface.
    KoolKid wrote: »
    Has this guy told you what system he is quoting you for?
    It is a requirement of the standards for him to supply you with a detailed system proposal.

    I have the quote in front of me. There is no spec included. It's poorly scribbled, but here is what I can make of it:

    Hall - PIR Beam
    Living Room - PIR Beam
    Kitchen - PIR Beam
    Landing - PIR Beam
    Bell Box at Front of House
    Dummy Box at Back
    Panel in Hall
    2 Panic Buttons
    2 Remotes for Keys

    Cost €990 plus finance costing €247 over 1 year (€25pw).

    I called off the install, which was for Wednesday until I have a proper look into it. I'm normally good when it comes to researching, but i've fallen flat here. Thank god I asked here first :eek:


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    #8
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    goz83 wrote: »

    I thought GSM would be handy, so if the alarm went off while I was out, I would know about it; reset the alarm and if it went off again, I would know that there was a problem and a false alarm would be less likely this way.

    I did have a UPC phone until Saturday, but it's now disconnected, since I ported the number to blueface.
    There are blueface adapters that allow you to connect a standard phone. These can be used to connect a standard alarm voice dialler. More secure than GSM in my opinion.
    goz83 wrote: »
    I have the quote in front of me. There is no spec included. It's poorly scribbled, but here is what I can make of it:

    Hall - PIR Beam
    Living Room - PIR Beam
    Kitchen - PIR Beam
    Landing - PIR Beam
    Bell Box at Front of House
    Dummy Box at Back
    Panel in Hall
    2 Panic Buttons
    2 Remotes for Keys

    Cost €990 plus finance costing €247 over 1 year (€25pw).

    That is nowhere near enough information for a system design proposal.
    4 PiRs on there own is nowhere near enough protection for any house.
    Are you not even getting contacts on the doors?
    Where is their risk assessment?
    I don't know any installers who would be happy installing something like this.
    With that system you could walk out of your home leaving every window & door open & the system would still arm.:eek:
    Crazy
    goz83 wrote: »
    I called off the install, which was for Wednesday until I have a proper look into it. I'm normally good when it comes to researching, but i've fallen flat here. Thank god I asked here first :eek:
    Again like I said get at least 3 quotes. Ensure you are comparing like with like.
    Insist on someone calling out to do a proper assessment. After this you should get a written quote listing all devices , locations & protection afforded by each device.


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    #9
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Once again, cheers for your input. About the blueface though; i no longer have a house phone. The landline number is now a virtual number tied to my mobile phone. I will be getting a few quotes and will report back here.


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    #10
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Your welcome , lets know how you get on. If you need any more you know where we are.


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    #11
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Mini update. I went through the angel alarms website and it looks like HKC is the brand they use. Aside from that, I have no more info, so its time to get looking into finding a decent product and installer.


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    #12
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The product is OK as long as its not Securewatch. That panel is around nearly 20 years now. You could be getting the newer Securewave ,Quantum or Siemens for the same sort of money.


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    #13
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    HKC is fine :) I use it in my house ( Irish company ).the system he is proposing(pirs) is useless for night time as it confines you to certain parts of the house.
    It's just as easy to install wireless shock/reeds as it is to install Wireless PIRs.


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    #14
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    I was called back from an installer today. Very long story cut short, he wouldn't email me his quote, stating "commercially sensitive information"!!! At first he was trying to talk me out of perimiter protection and was talking up the PIR only system. He called later and quoted me on perimiter sensors, but the price was "for this week only". Bad feeling in the gut about that one. He said the HKC panels are terrible and are not user friendly. Looks like this is gonna be a pain in the arse.


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    #15
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Tell him it is a requirement of EN50131 to provide you with a written system design proposal. Sounds like he is trying to bully you into something you don't want. Quite simply this system does not suit your security needs & this guy seems more interested in suiting himself rather than you.
    Like I said , shop around. Get 3 more quotes & you will see the differences in attitude & the systems offered.


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    #16
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    I'd say stay away from him ... Sounds like another "Angle alarms".


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    #17
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭altor


    goz83 wrote: »
    I was called back from an installer today. Very long story cut short, he wouldn't email me his quote, stating "commercially sensitive information"!!! At first he was trying to talk me out of perimiter protection and was talking up the PIR only system. He called later and quoted me on perimiter sensors, but the price was "for this week only". Bad feeling in the gut about that one. He said the HKC panels are terrible and are not user friendly. Looks like this is gonna be a pain in the arse.

    I hope you ran a mile from this installer.
    Perimeter protection is always going to provide better security. More expensive than the trap pack he is offering. Cant believe he would not even give you a quote of what he is installing. Sounds like he would just show up and install any type of system. You could be getting bargain basement stuff off him.
    Steer well clear..

    www.altor.ie



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