Sports Extra (TNT/Premier)

Onthe3rdDay

energy1942 wrote: »

I think you are missing the point, BT sport will show all their football in ROI.

As I understand it, Rte, Setanta & Tv3 have never had exclusive rights to the CL in ROI, and don't bid for exclusive rights in ROI, This has only happened with the Europa league.

If you want real information you'd need to get onto someone higher up in BT or their Press Office, and when you do that they'll probably be polite and say nothing at all to you, because they don't know themselves and the republic of Ireland hasn't even been though about yet.

Customer service are never told anything, they're given scripts and that's about all. You might get one or two that have extra info but not from official sources. There's also some that will say anything to keep someone happy on the end of a phone.

radiowaves

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

If you want real information you'd need to get onto someone higher up in BT or their Press Office, and when you do that they'll probably be polite and say nothing at all to you, because they don't know themselves and the republic of Ireland hasn't even been though about yet.

Customer service are never told anything, they're given scripts and that's about all. You might get one or two that have extra info but not from official sources. There's also some that will say anything to keep someone happy on the end of a phone.

I could run a long thread filled with ****e fed to me by CR at Sky, NTL and others. I usually think to ask the pertinent questions, which usually stops them in their tracks.

Not that I would have rang BT's CR team for an answer to this question but if I did the pertinent question would be to ask why, if they themselves are so certain, why is their own PR team not including Ireland.

Based on earlier contributions to this thread I'm guessing Energ1942y was looking for a particular answer and when he got it, didn't think to follow up.

energy1942

As for your last point, only one broadcaster can hold "exclusivity". Neither the CL or EL fall under that banner in Ireland.[/QUOTE]
I thought I had already made that point.

BT sport told me they can show all their sport in ROI in the future, and let's face it they have so far with one exception, Europa league football & that was because that contract was not available to them because Espn had the contract already.

It is clear to me that having spoken to them, this is unlikely to change.

radiowaves

energy1942 wrote: »

I thought I had already made that point.

BT sport told me they can show all their sport in ROI in the future, and let's face it they have so far with one exception, Europa league football & that was because that contract was not available to them because Espn had the contract already.

It is clear to me that having spoken to them, this is unlikely to change.

You said that the Europa League was exclusive to one broadcaster in Ireland. It's not.

BT Sport own ESPN ergo they now own ESPN's contract for Europa League.

icdg

Okay we might calm down on this one a bit

energy1942

radiowaves wrote: »

You said that the Europa League was exclusive to one broadcaster in Ireland. It's not.

BT Sport own ESPN ergo they now own ESPN's contract for Europa League.

TV3 has exclusive right to first pick of Europa league, Setanta second pick, they were the Irish rights, unlike the CL they had joint exclusive rights in ROI.

redabbey

radiowaves wrote: »

Again, what BT might want and what the Irish viewer might want might not tally in with what UEFA will be offering.

I'm sure ESPN considered themselves to be a UK and RoI broadcaster too. Heck I'm sure RTÉ would like to be classed as an all-Ireland broadcaster. When it comes to major sporting rights it doesn't always work that way.

Sky have a lot of clout. And you're right, they are an established broadcaster here. And they also have a lot to offer our channels here (doesn't need to be spelt out?).

BT don't have the presence here (yet) or the clout. And probably won't have the capacity to offer anything more than the indigenous broadcasters are already broadcasting - here's yet another thought: would Sky's guarantee to make EVERY match available have also played a part in the agreement to be made available here?

It's funny no matter how much evidence is placed in front of people, and now even RTÉ News have confirmed it for the doubters, people still seem to be convinced that the Irish CL rights are somehow tied up in the announcement made last week!

The call to BT sport press office as mentioned on this thread might seem to back up my point earlier that it's likely BT Sport have now all rights to Ireland for CL and EL matches during the life of the contract negotiated the other day. I'd still take it with a pinch of salt as to whether the press office actually know that for a fact. Yes, I would say top brass know it, but the press office are mostprobably reading from a script.

Sports contracts going forward will I am sure be negotiated for both isles, Sunday was the last day of Moto GP televised on BBC/Eurosport it's now gone to BT Sport and yes I would say the press office would tell you it's for both jurisdictions which in this case be correct.

Sorry that argument that you mentioned about ESPN holds no water as a dual broadcaster with a plan for the future. They came to the market with a strategy to fill the hole left by the collapse of Setanta UK. They took over the last year of their contract and were happy to use Sky's telephone agents for their subscriptions and also the adds on their channel were sold via Sky and I am sure you will also remember some cross promotions of football matches. In short they were there only to pick up the pieces, but I would also add that they were also rather naive about what rights that they had. In the early days they held a photoshoot in Dublin with I think John Giles and Ray Houghton promoting the channel and showing what games would be available on it. They were promoting their PL coverage but also their EL coverage which as we both know never happened.

In conclusion I'll wait and see what are the outcomes of Saturday's decision. My opinion is different to you but my reasoning is that this is a new and huge company coming to the table with massive resources (and clout). When you are prepared to bid big you expect the full package.

Still think Saturday was a bad day for the consumer.

ftakeith

if you don't subscribe to sky sports you save money
hope Bt sports get the new euro rugby rugby rights

radiowaves

energy1942 wrote: »

TV3 has exclusive right to first pick of Europa league, Setanta second pick, they were the Irish rights, unlike the CL they had joint exclusive rights in ROI.

You can't have joint exclusive rights

Although I now see the point you were making is that Irish broadcasters hold the rights to the exclusion of UK broadcasters.

That's where the misunderstanding arose

channelsurfer2

I would have thought that BT paying 299million a year was for uk rights only. Of course its not to say that they will be able to show them here as well like sky do but a tender for ROI rights will still have to take place early next year. It could then go fully pay if BT decide throwing a few extra million at the irish rights for exclusivity is worth it. Setanta would have to decide as well whether they want to(or have the money) to go against BT or if they just want to re-sell BT sport with the champions league rights for ireland on BT sport and not setanta.

radiowaves

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

I would have thought that BT paying 299million a year was for uk rights only. Of course its not to say that they will be able to show them here as well like sky do but a tender for ROI rights will still have to take place early next year. It could then go fully pay if BT decide throwing a few extra million at the irish rights for exclusivity is worth it. Setanta would have to decide as well whether they want to(or have the money) to go against BT or if they just want to re-sell BT sport with the champions league rights for ireland on BT sport and not setanta.

With the likelihood that BT will be showing some of their matches on platforms exclusive of satellite in the UK, a possible option - as you suggest - is that they jump into bed with Setanta here and bid for Irish joint rights on the Setanta platform. That would possibly allow them to also show all of their matches here.

The FTA situation is an intriguing one. If Irish terrestrial channels take first pick rights here, would BT be in a situation where a match they've chosen for FTA broadcast in the UK would have to be encrypted here? Otherwise those rights would be seriously devalued.

lertsnim

I recall similar mumblings when the last CL contract was awarded to Sky. Sky showed the games in Ireland. I cannot see how it will be different with BT Sport.

icdg

radiowaves wrote: »

The FTA situation is an intriguing one. If Irish terrestrial channels take first pick rights here, would BT be in a situation where a match they've chosen for FTA broadcast in the UK would have to be encrypted here? Otherwise those rights would be seriously devalued.

If it was encrypted at all, it wouldn't be free to air though...

We don't know how BT is going to deliver these "free to air" games (which will be one for each British team - a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 5 teams (in theory it could be more, but in practice it never will) and the final. So 4-6 games per season. However, I'd suggest its likely to be a combination of streaming them on its website and offering them free to view (so available to anyone with a valid Sky viewing card) on satellite.

ftakeith wrote: »

if you don't subscribe to sky sports you save money
hope Bt sports get the new euro rugby rugby rights

Ah, if we knew who was getting those, we'd know everything! Well it will be either BT or BSkyB. Maybe. (remembers that thread on Rugby is now at page 384...)

radiowaves

icdg wrote: »

We don't know how BT is going to deliver these "free to air" games (which will be one for each British team - a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 5 teams (in theory it could be more, but in practice it never will) and the final. So 4-6 games per season. However, I'd suggest its likely to be a combination of streaming them on its website and offering them free to view (so available to anyone with a valid Sky viewing card) on satellite.

The FTA games will actually be "at least" one per each British team and they haven't said that the FTA matches will be exclusively British teams either. My guess is they will offer up a similar number that ITV did but the fact that they have indicated a figure of at least one match per each team means they intend to show more than just 3-5 matches prior to the final.

icdg wrote: »

If it was encrypted at all, it wouldn't be free to air though...

Maybe I didn't phrase it as well as I could have.

Let's assume BT do get the rights for here and Irish broadcasters also pick up first picks.

If BT choose a match for FTA broadcast and the same match is also chosen by an Irish broadcaster how would that affect the situation?

The point is, as you say, if it couldn't be broadcast FTA here then it couldn't be broadcast FTA (on satellite).

In that situation would they have to make a lesser pick FTA?

Or would they have to keep their FTA off satellite altogether (if it's a first pick).

Or would any of it matter if they do get the rights?

As I said, it may get intriguing,

radiowaves

Further to my last post, and on re-reading some of the articles, just about every media outlet that reported this (that I've read) mentioned that the selected free matches would be "free to air". Interestingly, this was also how it was reported by ESPN UK!

However, in a possible misunderstanding that might mirror the confusion surrounding Sky's first PL match this season, BT Sport's press release specifies only that the matches would be "free". That changes the landscape quite a bit.

http://sport.bt.com/sportfootball/football/bt-sport-wins-all-live-uk-tv-rights-to-champions-league-and-europa-league-S11363847946944

BT has shaken up the UK TV market with BT Sport and it today pledged to make its new matches far more accessible and affordable for fans who wish to enjoy all the action. It also announced it will show a selection of these new matches for free on BT Sport, even to homes that have not signed up to the channels.

The finals of each tournament will be showcased in this fashion along with a selection of top matches from earlier rounds. Fans will also be delighted to know that each participating British team will feature for free at least once each season

That might suggest a similar arrangement to the one Sky implemented for the aforementioned PL match ie BT will utilise their Freeview channel and broadcast free-to-view on satellite, cable and online in the UK.

radiowaves

redabbey wrote: »

The call to BT sport press office as mentioned on this thread might seem to back up my point earlier that it's likely BT Sport have now all rights to Ireland for CL and EL matches during the life of the contract negotiated the other day.

...

In conclusion I'll wait and see what are the outcomes of Saturday's decision. My opinion is different to you but my reasoning is that this is a new and huge company coming to the table with massive resources (and clout). When you are prepared to bid big you expect the full package.

Still think Saturday was a bad day for the consumer.

There still seems to be confusion about this for reasons I really can't fathom.

The Irish rights have not been tendered yet. They won't be until next year. I'm really not sure what part of that is not resonating with certain people

BT obviously expected the full package with the bid they made. The full package on offer was the pay tv and free tv rights for the UK. They got it. The bid was high in order to secure exclusivity for the UK

Here's some food for thought:
All qualified broadcasters in the contract territory shall have an equal opportunity to bid for the rights.

That's part of UEFA's and the EC's criterion for bids for the CL and is worth repeating:
All qualified broadcasters in the contract territory shall have an equal opportunity to bid for the rights.

And here's another:
All rights packages shall, in principle, be put on the market at the same time.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/25624.pdf

If BT have already been informed the Irish pay tv rights are a formality the EC's anti-competitive measures would be called in to question. And even if that was the case where does that leave their plan to broadcast certain matches free? And it also leaves open the question of other broadcasters being denied the right to bid for exclusivity if BT have been given a nod and a wink.

For BT to secure the Irish rights they will have to hope that Setanta will step aside or joint bid (both likely) and that Sky don't consider the Irish rights alone worth going for. They would be understandably confident about both but neither is automatic.

The pertinent points:
The rights awarded last week were exclusive pay and free tv rights for the UK (there's a reason not even BT Sport's website are mentioning they also got rights for Republic of Ireland);
The Irish rights have not yet been tendered;
All broadcasters in the territory [Republic of Ireland] shall have equal opportunity to bid - everyone for FTA and BT, Sky or Setanta for pay.

To conclude, and this has been said already, this is just to present the case for why it cannot be automatic that BT (already) have the pay TV rights for Republic of Ireland but I do believe that they will get them.

TAFKAlawhec

icdg wrote: »

We don't know how BT is going to deliver these "free to air" games (which will be one for each British team - a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 5 teams (in theory it could be more, but in practice it never will) and the final. So 4-6 games per season. However, I'd suggest its likely to be a combination of streaming them on its website and offering them free to view (so available to anyone with a valid Sky viewing card) on satellite.

Probably the following...

Freeview - BT Sport's barker/preview channel is on channel 57 via the Arqiva multiplex which has been used to show some "free weekends" without unencrypting BT Sport 1 or 2 (channels 58 and 59) so this would probably go down the same route. How much longer BT Sport will continue to have a barker channel though is up in the air, access to BT Sport 1 & 2 via Freeview is only given to those BT TV customers who don't have their Infinity service available yet.

Satellite - easy enough to do via Sky, just switch off the encryption or switch it to "Free to view". Freesat is obviously more troublesome in (a) if they just simply can't switch encryption off and (b) securing a Freesat EPR number.

BT TV - BT I'm sure will almost certainly direct customers via IPTV to the channels where appropriate.

Virgin - AFAIK BT Sport is already available to Virgin TV customers on the lowest "M" package so little change there.

energy1942

After my Telephone conversation with BT sport , it was made quite clear to me that it is certain that BT sport will show from 2015-16 the same coverage of CL & Europa league in ROI as in the UK, the only doubt is whether other broadcasters get coverage in ROI, I think this may happen, but no Irish broadcaster has the funds to outbid BT sport for exclusive rights, Sky sports will not bid for ROI rights only, they never have done that.

ftakeith

well done bt sports/setanta



From: @setanta.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: champions league and europa league in ireland
To: Keith


Hi Keith,

The Setanta Pack will have all these matches live as BT Sport rights also include the Republic of Ireland on this deal. We will announce how the games can be seen much closer to the time.

The Cush

ftakeith wrote: »

well done bt sports/setanta

From: @setanta.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: champions league and europa league in ireland
To: Keith


Hi Keith,

The Setanta Pack will have all these matches live as BT Sport rights also include the Republic of Ireland on this deal. We will announce how the games can be seen much closer to the time.

Does this mean when the Irish TV rights go to tender it will be for the FTA terrestrial rights?

redabbey

ftakeith wrote: »

well done bt sports/setanta



From: @setanta.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: champions league and europa league in ireland
To: Keith


Hi Keith,

The Setanta Pack will have all these matches live as BT Sport rights also include the Republic of Ireland on this deal. We will announce how the games can be seen much closer to the time.

Well that would seem to be pretty definite and just go on to show that when Ireland (ROI) rights are being considered by the PL and Uefa we are always treated as a special case. The exception being that this is the first time the EL rights have been sold this way. Personally I never expected anything different from when the announcement was made despite the counter arguments.

The Cush wrote: »

Does this mean when the Irish TV rights go to tender it will be for the FTA terrestrial rights?

Would say that there will be FTA Irish TV rights to still be decided, The crucial question is though if the rights would allow the terrestrial broadcaster have 1st pick on each matchweek for the games offered as has always been the case to date. I would not like to speculate on this.

radiowaves

A very interesting development and, considering a pretty much similar broadcasting situation exists in Germany/Austria yet rights are distinctly separate there, a surprising one.

I would still love to know why BT don't consider this country worthy in their press releases! Nor UEFA for that matter. But congratulations to BT anyway. I personally like lots about their way of showing football.

channelsurfer2

Setanta seem very sure they will have the rights but as it cost BT an arm and a leg it could cost us an arm and a leg to watch them as well!

The Cush

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

Setanta seem very sure they will have the rights but as it cost BT an arm and a leg it could cost us an arm and a leg to watch them as well!

BT Sports via Setanta on Sky/UPC probably have the same rights to the RoI as Sky Sports had to show the games via Sky and UPC. The Irish broadcasters RTÉ/TV3 and Setanta in their own right, if they choose, will have a chance to bid for the Irish TV rights when they come up for tender.

Elmo

Setanta did try very badly to replace Setanta Sports News simulcasts on Setanta Ireland with programmes like The Hub.

I don't really see why there is a need for 2 Setanta channels, though if they pick up more champion league rights they may need those extra channels. Also be interesting to see what they do with BT coverage of those same matches if they get any of the Irish rights.

It would be interest if Sky came along and bought all Irish rights to Champions League and set up a separate Irish Sports channel specifical for those rights.

What will sky put on instead of Champions League?

icdg

Elmo wrote: »

I don't really see why there is a need for 2 Setanta channels, though if they pick up more champion league rights they may need those channels

Off topic for this thread of course, but there isn't really two Setanta channels any more, there is Setanta Ireland and Premier Sports now and there isn't much shared between them bar NHL and the GAA leagues when they come up.

Worth noting though Setanta is opting out to show a second Champions League game on Tuesday nights during the group stages though. They're supposed to show two on a Wednesday as well but haven't been this season.

The Cush

icdg wrote: »

Worth noting though Setanta is opting out to show a second Champions League game on Tuesday nights during the group stages though. They're supposed to show two on a Wednesday as well but haven't been this season.

From the UEFA 2012 press release

Pay-television operator Setanta Sports has been awarded the right to broadcast all remaining live matches and will broadcast each matchnight a highlights programme and a minimum of two live matches on Setanta Ireland and Setanta Sports 1.
http://www.uefa.org/events/marketing/media-rights-and-services/news/newsid=1791613.html

Does this mean a minimum of 2 live matches per matchnight or 2 live matches per match week and a highlights programme each matchnight?

icdg

Means two live matches and a highlights programme each match night, or that's how I read it anyway. I guess only UEFA and Setanta know what the fine print says, but they were broadcasting two matches each night during the group stages last year, as well as showing up to four Europa League games per night, now that's down to two).

We might continue the Setanta discussion in the Setanta/BT thread, I'll move these posts later.

irishfeen

Just updated the the January fixture list for Sky Sports, BT and Setanta - https://www.dropbox.com/s/run9lbl20orvf0i/Prem%20League%20Fixtures%201.docx

Seems BT have slightly better games overall e.g Tottenham v Man City, Everton v Liverpool and Man Utd v Tottenham... Sky have a lot of games but most are not box office stuff.

batistuta9

Highlights of the Champions League and Europa League will remain on ITV after the broadcaster agreed a three-year deal with Uefa from 2015.
News UK, owner of the Times and Sun newspapers, will share internet and mobile clip rights with BT Sport.

...

ITV's new deal will allow it to show highlights of all the week's Champions League games on a Wednesday night. There will be no separate highlights show on Tuesdays.
The broadcaster will also be able to show Europa League highlights on Thursday nights.
Highlights of both finals and the Super Cup will be on ITV. In addition, highlights of both competitions will be made available on ITV's website and via mobile.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25058618

---

Under the terms of the three-year digital highlights deal BT and News UK – which also publishes the Times and Sunday Times – will have the rights to show highlights clips of 146 Champions League and 205 Europa League matches on mobile, tablet, laptop, desktop as well as apps.

"BT Sport has already pledged to make UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League action far more accessible and affordable for customers," said the chief executive of BT Consumer, John Petter. "The addition of clips rights means that fans need not worry about missing any of the vital moments from matches."

News UK said that its deal, for an undisclosed sum, covers rights in the UK and Ireland.

The News UK chief executive, Mike Darcey, said that the deal with UEFA was "groundbreaking" and "proved that our renowned news brands are the only choice for sports fans in the digital era".

From next Wednesday subscribers to the Sun's £2-a-week digital service will also be able to catch action from the Scottish Premiership.

In January News UK paid more than £30m in a three-year deal to show Premier League football highlights on mobile devices and the internet.

News UK also has a four-year deal for the FA Cup running from the 2014/15 season, which will allow it to provide clips of goals to online and mobile users immediately after they are scored.

ITV holds the digital rights for this season's tournament but News UK is in negotiations to take over the last year of the broadcaster's contract.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/nov/22/itv-champions-league-highlights-bt-sport