New xbox drm and blocks used games

gizmo

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

or buy a PC

I wonder will the next generation of Console vs. PC arguments take into consideration the need for an internet connection when calculating the costs? :pac:

Icyseanfitz

eugh all this crap makes me want to cancel my live sub, only prob is id have to ring ms's customer support to do so as they dont even have an unsub function on the damn xbox the greedy ****ers

tuxy

I've not be following this thread closely but i get the jist that this is now set in stone and is definitely going ahead. Correct?

stevenmu

tuxy wrote: »

I've not be following this thread closely but i get the jist that this is now set in stone and is definitely going ahead. Correct?

No, still just rumour and speculation.

Almost exactly the same as 6 months ago, when we all thought the PS4 would require an always on connection and block second hand games, which turned out to be completely false. Except this hasn't been proven false yet.

tuxy

Whey are people acting like this then?

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

eugh all this crap makes me want to cancel my live sub, only prob is id have to ring ms's customer support to do so as they dont even have an unsub function on the damn xbox the greedy ****ers

Not picking on that poster just using it as an example of the tone of this thread.

taytothief

Anyone who buys the new xbox is a idiot

tuxy

taytothief wrote: »

Anyone who buys the new xbox is a idiot

And why is that since there is very little info that's not rumors. What are you basing this assertion on?

taytothief

tuxy wrote: »

And why is that since there is very little info that's not rumors. What are you basing this assertion on?

Adam Orth is enough surely? Do you need more? How much more do you need? Being spoken to like an unintelligent child is enough for me to not buy it. Maybe not for you though.

tuxy

taytothief wrote: »

Adam Orth is enough surely? Do you need more? How much more do you need? Being spoken to like an unintelligent child is enough for me to not buy it. Maybe not for you though.

If your trying to convince me PC is the way to go then there's no point. PC has been my main gaming platform for 13 years.
Sony have made many stupid PR mistakes over the years from rootkits to sueing someone for making modifications to his ps3. These examples have been in a far more official capacity than Orths comments.

Some people understandably will still want to buy a Sony or MS console. Neither company has a great track record. Picking one is no more stupid than picking the other.

But blah blah blah lets start the console wars/flaming for the next gen early!!!

Atomicjuicer

Because early indications are that this may in be in the pipeline and if we kick up enough of a fuss at this stage maybe we can get it changed.

No point complaining once its already out. Nothing will change after that point.

Today we can turn on a game from the 90s and it just works. Those validation servers won't run forever. And those saying that generous Microsoft will unlock games that they no longer support need that in stone because it'd be too easy for them not to do it and then release the games on a newer console a few years later and charge customers again.

riclad

IF single player games on xbox, need a net connection, ill just buy a ps4,
OR upgrade my pc ,buy games on steam.
i know people ,even with broadband, if the console is upstairs ,they cant, get a signal.
Many countrys ,have low quality broadband.
IF a developer , say ea, wants to release ,a game ,that requires net drm, always on , they will find it reduces sales of the game.
IT,LL be on the box,net acess needed,
if you dont want it,don,t buy it.

IF every game ,app ,needs net connection ,all the time ,thats just ridiculous.
Why should i need a net connection to play deus ex revolution,eg a single player game.
IF i buy an mmo,i understand,its an online game.it wont work without connecting to the internet.
IT makes no sense to me, and the usa has a mediocre standard ,re broadband speed.
IT seems to me products like chromebook, are being produced by engineers, that live in silicon valley,
eg they think everyone has an 3g iphone, or galaxy s,
and has a 20meg broadband connection.

They don,t live in the real world ,they are part of the 1 per cent.

Many companys get patents ,on drm,etc and never use them,
because it makes no sense in the market place.

Theres loads of games , that need broadband to use all the modes,
eg call of duty,multiplayer
i just play spec ops etc, i never bothered getting xbox live .

Oafley Jones

I moved to the countryside a month ago today, I've gone from a 50mb UPC connection to POS 1mb eircom that constantly craps out. If I'm lucky I might be able to get a decent line of sight connection in September. Even if I was still had great BB I wouldn't buy an always on console on principle. Having said that people need to wait and stop freaking over rumours; sure the noises aren't great, but the reality when it launches could be very different. Rumour also has it that Orth has (deservedly) been ****-canned

Retr0gamer

stevenmu wrote: »

No, still just rumour and speculation.

Almost exactly the same as 6 months ago, when we all thought the PS4 would require an always on connection and block second hand games, which turned out to be completely false. Except this hasn't been proven false yet.

Didn't Sony turn around and say they will be leaving that up to he publishers discretion?

COYVB

Sony, for the record, have only said the PS4 won't block second hand games. They have NEVER said that second hand games will not need a $14.99 purchase to make them run

Varik

MS have come out with sales statistic of those who've have at least connected their 360, they showed that once they've gotten a user to make that initial jump that they're extremely likely to make a few digital purchase.

It depends on the maths, how many extra new retail and digital sales would they make and compared to how much they would have made otherwise, all these companies are not in it to "win" a console war they want to make as much money as possible so at some point they'll make the jump and go for fewer users and more profit.

Having either console require an initial registration but not requiring a constant connection could lead to a big jump on digital sales if that consumers can be forced to take that initial step.

Icyseanfitz

tuxy wrote: »

Whey are people acting like this then?



Not picking on that poster just using it as an example of the tone of this thread.

acting like what? ive been an avid xbox fan through xbox 1 and most of the 360's life, the way ms are going deserves criticism if you are a core fan, what new ip's have they made in the last few years? look at the garbage that is kinect, and that is 100% going to carry into the next box,
and then rumors of this always online ****e backed up by their damn marketing manager, whats not to be worried over?

and i personally think it deserves to be pointed out that ms make it intentionally hard to unsub from live if you have used a credit card

riclad

IF ms are smart ,they, ll leave things as they are ,
ie if i want to play games online ,i pay for xbox live.
Maybe more companys will charge ten dollars , if you wanna play game x ,online,
THE usa is in a patent war at the moment, tech company,s are taking out patents as a defensive measure.
Most patents are never used on consumer products, or, they are sold on to
other companys.

IF THIS came in ,many people would just use the 360 console,or a pc.
Theres load,s of good games still being released ,on ps3, or 360.
OR leave it up to the publisher s discretion,
I don,t think ms is stupid enough to do this.

COYVB

riclad wrote: »

Theres load,s of good games still being released ,on ps3, or 360.

That's because their successors aren't out yet. Come back in 2 years and try saying the same thing

gizmo

taytothief wrote: »

Adam Orth is enough surely? Do you need more? How much more do you need? Being spoken to like an unintelligent child is enough for me to not buy it. Maybe not for you though.

Why would the comments of the Creative Director of MS Games Studios be of any relevance? He has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the the console ships with such an always online requirement. He's also completely entitled to his opinion either way, doubly so when he's not making anything resembling an official statement. Nevermind the fact that he wasn't talking to you, he was having a bit of banter with a friend in a different studio.

Personally I don't agree with his views at all and found them overly dismissive, regardless of their logical failings. However, the ****storm that it has lead to online is precisely the reason why so few employees will ever actually come out and talk about either their own work or work of others. Companies know damn well how such opinions are taken up by the press and gamers at this stage and employees know how companies will react if they do talk more openly. Instead we're left with the usual PR bull**** and utterly unsubstantiated rumours from various "sources".

COYVB

Orth's comments do suggest that it's something that's planned though. He'd not have gotten so defensive if it wasn't a likely feature

gizmo

COYVB wrote: »

Orth's comments do suggest that it's something that's planned though. He'd not have gotten so defensive if it wasn't a likely feature

It suggests nothing of the sort, he got defensive when he was rounded on personally for his views and when people then assumed because "someone from Microsoft" said it then it must be true. This is the primary danger employees such as him face in such instances and why they don't talk about things, the fear that their own personal comments are attributed to the company they work for and, if said opinions get the company in trouble, they'll be one suffering because of it.

As it happens, MS have even since come out and commented on it saying...

“We are aware of the comments made by an employee on Twitter. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views are not reflective of those of the company. We have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter.”

COYVB

Again though, why would he have gotten so defensive about an always on system if it wasn't something they were looking at?

gizmo

COYVB wrote: »

Again though, why would he have gotten so defensive about an always on system if it wasn't something they were looking at?

As I said above, more than likely for two very simple reasons...

1. Based on the general response of gamers to things they don't agree with, I'd imagine the abuse he got for expressing his opinion on the matter was pretty horrible.
   
   
2. His comments were being attributed to Microsoft and their official policy on future XBox functionality, something which would more than likely get him in trouble.

COYVB

No I know what you're saying, but I still can't see why he'd have responded in such a way if it wasn't something on the table. Why get defensive about something that's not happening. It looks to me like he was getting pissy for a reason other than the general response of gamers to things - I've not seen him go off on rants like that about anything else in particular

gizmo

COYVB wrote: »

No I know what you're saying, but I still can't see why he'd have responded in such a way if it wasn't something on the table. Why get defensive about something that's not happening. It looks to me like he was getting pissy for a reason other than the general response of gamers to things - I've not seen him go off on rants like that about anything else in particular

Until Microsoft make an official statement on it one way or another it's on the table as far as the public are concerned though. Given the fact that they don't comment on rumour or speculation either way, this isn't going to change any time soon. Orth knows this and I imagine upon seeing how his comments were being projected onto Microsoft as official policy, he chose to respond in the manner he did.

As I said, I don't agree with what he said, but I like the fact that he commented on it. What I really don't like is him (potentially) getting abuse for it, having said comments be taken as official policy when they're not and an end result where we're less likely to see people in positions such as his feel able to comment in such a public manner.

richymcdermott

gizmo wrote: »

As I said above, more than likely for two very simple reasons...

1. Based on the general response of gamers to things they don't agree with, I'd imagine the abuse he got for expressing his opinion on the matter was pretty horrible.
   
   
2. His comments were being attributed to Microsoft and their official policy on future XBox functionality, something which would more than likely get him in trouble.

you want to be very careful on how you handle yourself on the internet , not just developers but actors, actress, sports people etc..

its one thing to have an opinion but orth came out as a douchebag with his comments and maybe everything is been blown out of proportion but you are at the end of the day representing your company. it is a concern cause rumours have being circulating for months , not days or weeks but months that ms is bringing out a drm on console.

so caution is up , its not a witch hunt or consumers jumping to conclusions.

Retr0gamer

It's his own fault for talking about it on twitter. He should know better than to go mouthing off abut work related stuff on a public forum. If he gets fired he brought it on himself in fairness.

gizmo

richymcdermott wrote: »

you want to be very careful on how you handle yourself on the internet , not just developers but actors, actress, sports people etc..

Generally speaking, I completely agree with this however I don't think that should extend to any opinion they share being considered the official policy of the company they work with. If it wasn't, then we wouldn't see the entire internet go ape-**** in such cases.

richymcdermott wrote: »

its one thing to have an opinion but orth came out as a douchebag with his comments and maybe everything is been blown out of proportion but you are at the end of the day representing your company. it is a concern cause rumours have being circulating for months , not days or weeks but months that ms is bringing out a drm on console.

Yea, which means Orth is, quite possibly, a bit of a douchebag, nothing more. If Orth wants to do this, then let him. If Phil Harrison wants to come out and say he doesn't like always online at a console level then let him do that too. It would, as far as I'm concerned, mean about as much as Orth doing it after all.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's his own fault for talking about it on twitter. He should know better than to go mouthing off abut work related stuff on a public forum. If he gets fired he brought it on himself in fairness.

The fact that he could possibly get fired and ultimately turn more people in the industry off talking about it openly is probably the worst thing that could actually come from this.

ShadowHearth

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's his own fault for talking about it on twitter. He should know better than to go mouthing off abut work related stuff on a public forum. If he gets fired he brought it on himself in fairness.

+1.

In fairness, no matter where you work, you got to take responsibility for your words. It applies to any industry.

Retr0gamer

gizmo wrote: »

The fact that he could possibly get fired and ultimately turn more people in the industry off talking about it openly is probably the worst thing that could actually come from this.

Bull****, in any line of work what he did was out of order. If I was working in a pharmaceutical comapny you wouldn't see me harping on about drugs failing clinical trials or if I was a student bad mouthing students on twitter. It's his own stupid fault considering he probably signed a big NDA not to talk about the new XBoc until announcement. He signed a legal contract, he broke it, he deserves to get fired.