Frontline service workers - are they all that ?

P_1

To be honest I'd say only a lucky select few could say that they'd rather be in work than doing anything else.

Unless you're self employed really all you're doing when working is making money for somebody else

Where To

senordingdong wrote: »

Yeah but I bet you would eat those carrots if someone was giving you money to do it.

Do you think that bin men and jacks scrubbers of our world go home with a smile on their faces? And go to work with an even bigger smile?

Why wouldn't they?

BattleCorp wrote: »

There's a huge difference in not caring about your job and only doing it for the money.

I'm doing my job for the money, but it's incorrect to say that I don't care about my job. I care about my job enough to do it properly and keep the money coming in.

I would argue that only ensuring the money keeps rolling in is caring about yourself and not the job.

Dwork wrote: »

Soo, you've dealt with Businesses in Ireland before, have you? I've yet to notice a "Give it 100% even when you are in bad form" attitude. Even amongst feckers that are getting payed like Biggie.

I don't see it much either, but I live in hope.:)

BattleCorp wrote: »

Or doctors or nurses who have to care for a child rape victim?

If they were only doing it to keep the money rolling in then I would be very concerned indeed.:(

Madam_X

Boombastic wrote: »

Money is only a short term motivator.

Unless the person wants to work up the ranks/make targets for more seniority/money/bonuses.

Where To wrote: »

I would argue that only ensuring the money keeps rolling in is caring about yourself and not the job.

Are both not possible?

Surely making more money requires working particularly hard, which would obviously be the epitome of caring about one's job...?

Oh noez, caring about financial security! :eek:

Where To

Madam_X wrote: »

Unless the person wants to work up the ranks/make targets for more seniority/money/bonuses.

Don't get me started on climbers, I'll be hitting the corner flag next.:pac:

Where To

Madam_X wrote: »

Are both not possible?

Oh noez, caring about financial security! :eek:

Yes both are possible. It's which one you let behind the wheel, that's the thing.

P_1

Ah money, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems

Madam_X

Where To wrote: »

Don't get me started on climbers, I'll be hitting the corner flag next.:pac:

But all companies need managers...

Are you just arguing for the sake of it? Because it really looks that way.

P_1 wrote: »

Ah money, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems

It's great for paying the rent/mortgage, bills, food, clothing, transport, education, funding the kid(s), those kind of luxuries. :pac:

Where To

Madam_X wrote: »

But all companies need managers...

Are you just arguing for the sake of it? Because it really looks that way.

Of course they do, but a manager whose prime motivation is money is a 100 times bigger waster in my eyes.


Na, it is something I actually feel very strongly about.

P_1

Madam_X wrote: »

It's great for paying the rent/mortgage, bills, food, clothing, transport, education, funding the kid(s), those kind of luxuries. :pac:

Yeah its good for those alright, shame we have to give up so much of our time and effort to earn it though :pac:

Madam_X

Where To wrote: »

Of course they do, but a manager whose prime motivation is money is a 100 times bigger waster in my eyes.


Na, it is something I actually feel very strongly about.

But not thinking much about/using logic in relation to. You're also avoiding a lot of points/questions.

How the **** can a manager who works their ass off (even if it's just for the money) be a waster...?

You know it's not possible for every job to be liked.

Where To

I don't think the OP got the discussion he was looking for.:pac:

P_1

Where To wrote: »

I don't think the OP got the discussion he was looking for.:pac:

Probably not :pac:

Boombastic

Madam_X wrote: »

Unless the person wants to work up the ranks/make targets for more seniority/money/bonuses.

...........

Nope that would be the desire to achieve, to get recognition, to take on responsibility, the opportunity to advance and the work itself and as a motivator.



At first you might say, more money this is great, but when the reality of the job sets in what motivates then?

Where To

Madam_X wrote: »

But not thinking much about/using logic in relation to. You're also avoiding a lot of points/questions.

How the **** can a manager who works their ass off (even if it's just for the money) be a waster...?

You know it's not possible for every job to be liked.

If they only do it for the money then they don't care about the job. It's that simple for me. Black and white.

P_1

Where To wrote: »

Of course they do, but a manager whose prime motivation is money is a 100 times bigger waster in my eyes.


Na, it is something I actually feel very strongly about.

To be fair I'd be of the same opinion.

Money shouldn't be the main motivator in what you work at, rather it should be whether or not you enjoy doing what takes up 8 hours plus of your day.

Madam_X

Boombastic wrote: »

Nope that would be the desire to achieve, to get recognition, to take on responsibility, the opportunity to advance and the work itself and as a motivator.

... And money.

I have no intention of career-climbing myself, but Jesus... thank fook I'm not so obnoxiously prejudiced towards those who do.

Where To wrote: »

If they only do it for the money then they don't care about the job. It's that simple for me. Black and white.

Why wouldn't you be bothered putting a bit of thought into it and bearing in mind people are different? Is it more enjoyable to be really prejudiced?

Where To

Madam_X wrote: »

... And money.

I have no intention of career-climbing myself, but Jesus... thank fook I'm not so obnoxiously prejudiced towards those who do.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone who aspires to be the best they can be.

Career climbing is something different entirely.

One is helping everyone off a sinking ship, the other is using them as a human bridge to get off yourself.

P_1

Madam_X wrote: »

... And money.

I have no intention of career-climbing myself, but Jesus... thank fook I'm not so obnoxiously prejudiced towards those who do.

Why wouldn't you be bothered putting a bit of thought into it and bearing in mind people are different? Is it more enjoyable to be really prejudiced?

Some people see things in purely black and white terms, other people see things in varying shades of gray

Boombastic

Madam_X wrote: »

... And money.

I have no intention of career-climbing myself, but Jesus... thank fook I'm not so obnoxiously prejudiced towards those who do.

Why wouldn't you be bothered putting a bit of thought into it and bear in mind people are different? Is it more enjoyable to be really prejudiced?

You should put a bit of thought in to in, in fact try googling it. You might even find out it is a widely accepted business theory, backed up with research that money alone is not a motivator :rolleyes:

Madam_X

P_1 wrote: »

Some people see things in purely black and white terms, other people see things in varying shades of gray

Well thinking purely in black and white and not considering all the variables is... by its very nature... wrong. Fallacies generate out of it. People have differing reasons for climbing the ranks for money.

Boombastic wrote: »

it is a widely accepted business theory, backed up with research that money alone is not a motivator :rolleyes:

So you're agreeing with me - money is a motivating factor.

Can't see where I said it's the only one.

P_1

Madam_X wrote: »

Well thinking purely in black and white and not considering all the variables is... by its very nature... wrong. Fallacies generate out of it.

But are you not being a tad guilty of black/white thinking with that very argument? :pac:

Where To

Fallacies develop when you cloud your black and white to get your shades of grey, black and white stay black and white, they don't change.

Boombastic

Madam_X wrote: »

Well thinking purely in black and white and not considering all the variables is... by its very nature... wrong. Fallacies generate out of it.

So you're agreeing with me - money is a motivating factor.

Can't see where I said it's the only one.

Backtracking now are you?? It's short term motivating factor, not a long term one as I already stated and your reply was :

Unless the person wants to work up the ranks/make targets for more seniority/money/bonuses.

Madam_X

Where To wrote: »

If you do like your job, you do it regardless of money.

Try saying that to people who have children to raise. I know I'm coming down hard on you but you are being extremely unreasonable.

P_1 wrote: »

But are you not being a tad guilty of black/white thinking with that very argument? :pac:

But saying "Anyone who just works for money doesn't care about their job" IS wrong, unless the person saying it knows every person ever who just works for money.

Shur if "black and white" was sufficient, people could say anything about anything.

Boombastic wrote: »

Backtracking now are you?? It's short term motivating factor, not a long term one as I already stated and your reply was :

There is backtracking all right on this thread, but not from me. Money can be a long-term motivating factor, but that doesn't mean it's the only one.

Where To

Madam_X wrote: »

But saying "Anyone who just works for money doesn't care about their job" IS wrong, unless the person saying it knows every person ever who just works for money.

There is backtracking all right on this thread, but not from me. Money can be a long-term motivating factor, but that doesn't mean it's the only one.

I don't even need to know one single person that works only for the money for me to think that they don't care, it's what I believe.

Anyhoo, I'm off to a happy thread before I burst a blood vessel.

P_1

Madam_X wrote: »

But saying "Anyone who just works for money doesn't care about their job" IS wrong, unless the person saying it knows every person ever who just works for money.

Shur if "black and white" was sufficient, people could say anything about anything.

Fair point, a black/white counterargument to a black/white argument if you may.

I can see both sides to the argument to be fair.

Somebody who's motivation to do a job is their enjoyment of the job may well work out as a better employee, then again somebody who is motivated 100% by the pay check may also work out as a better employee.

I guess it all depends on what the job is.

Madam_X

The only people for whom such a judgement is founded are those who have a bad attitude to their job and don't bother making an effort. Grossly unfair to be applying it to unknown people even when they work hard.

Where To wrote: »

I don't even need to know one single person that works only for the money for me to think that they don't care, it's what I believe.

But why believe something that could very well be wrong?

Anyhoo, I'm off to a happy thread before I burst a blood vessel.

Can't see what's causing you such annoyance, other than your (not reasonable, very provocative) view being challenged.

P_1

Madam_X wrote: »

The only people for whom such a judgement is founded are those who have a bad attitude to their job and don't bother making an effort. Grossly unfair to be applying it to unknown people even when they work hard.

Yeah, different things motivate different people, seems a tad unfair to bias your thinking against a certain set of people depending on what motivates them

mackg

What is going on in this thread? People who work solely for the money are wasters? I've read some tripe on here but I think that this is the most insulting to me personally yet. My father like loads of his generation left for England to make money to send home no other reason, worked away from his friends and family. The man had a wall collapse on him and spent a month in hospital completely alone. Did it for the money and went back to work after and you're saying people like that aren't committed? Go way to fcuk.

Boombastic

People who strike over a few quid and leave patients to die and others in life threatening situations

Are they motivated by money or because they care about their job?

It would seem, they were motivated to enter the profession on the basis of money. So in that situation money can be a motivator. But when the sh1t hits the fan and the level money decreases or stays the same, they don't care about their job. Have the levels of pay attracted people who don't care?


I've said it before and I'll say it again, Dr. Quinn medicine woman wasn't motivated by money and she wouldn't have went on with this type of crap

Stark

Almaviva wrote: »

Frontline service workers.
Do they really think they are distinct for the rest of the working population ?
Or are they just following a clever cooperative branding campaign by their union leaders ?

Not a big fan of the term. It's pretty much judging the worth of a person's job by the visibility of their job. Just because you're not on the "frontline" doesn't mean your job isn't equally as important. I guess most people draw the distinction because they're afraid of a situation of having to look someone in the eye after advocating for their pay to be cut when it's easier to advocate pay cuts for those working behind the scenes.

Where To

mackg wrote: »

What is going on in this thread? People who work solely for the money are wasters? I've read some tripe on here but I think that this is the most insulting to me personally yet. My father like loads of his generation left for England to make money to send home no other reason, worked away from his friends and family. The man had a wall collapse on him and spent a month in hospital completely alone. Did it for the money and went back to work after and you're saying people like that aren't committed? Go way to fcuk.

My father did the same and and to be honest I've probably picked up my attitude from him. My great Grandad on my mother's side died on the Hoover Dam, thousands of miles from home, it was three months before his family found out, they've always had the same attitude to work as me, 'if your heart's not in it keep your feet out of it' my Granny used to say.

P_1

Where To wrote: »

My father did the same and and to be honest I've probably picked up my attitude from him. My great Grandad on my mother's side died on the Hoover Dam, thousands of miles from home, it was three months before his family found out, they've always had the same attitude to work as me, 'if your heart's not in it keep your feet out of it' my Granny used to say.

I agree with the sentiment but in practice it is probably a bit impractical these days.
Bills need to be paid and all that...

BlaasForRafa

Stark wrote: »

Not a big fan of the term. It's pretty much judging the worth of a person's job by the visibility of their job. Just because you're not on the "frontline" doesn't mean your job isn't equally as important. I guess most people draw the distinction because they're afraid of a situation of having to look someone in the eye after advocating for their pay to be cut when it's easier to advocate pay cuts for those working behind the scenes.

If someone is overpaid, then they are overpaid, no matter what their job is whether it is so-called frontline or not. For years the PS in Ireland has been overpaid, what the economic crisis did is point out the bleedin obvious. It also meant that the money to overpay the PS was no longer there.

Liamalone

Where To wrote: »

Yeah, maybe I'm a silly old fool, but I'm a stubborn one too and nothing is ever going to change my opinion that anyone doing a job when they don't care about it is a waste.

First part of statement correct, last part is laughable.

Contender for the stupidest thing I've read on Boards yet! Stopped reading thread on the back of it lol

Where To

Liamalone wrote: »

First part of statement correct, last part is laughable.

Contender for the stupidest thing I've read on Boards yet! Stopped reading thread on the back of it lol

It's just an opinion, don't let it ruin your enjoyment of the rest of the thread.

mackg

Where To wrote: »

My father did the same and and to be honest I've probably picked up my attitude from him. My great Grandad on my mother's side died on the Hoover Dam, thousands of miles from home, it was three months before his family found out, they've always had the same attitude to work as me, 'if your heart's not in it keep your feet out of it' my Granny used to say.

What's your point? There are more reasons for your heart to be in something then enjoying what you do. That comes across as a somewhat naive way to look at things. What about putting the maximum effort into anything you do purely because you take pride in anything you put your name to and you have to pay the bills. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Where To

mackg wrote: »

What's your point? There are more reasons for your heart to be in something then enjoying what you do. That comes across as a somewhat naive way to look at things. What about putting the maximum effort into anything you do purely because you take pride in anything you put your name to and you have to pay the bills. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me too.

2ndcoming

Where To wrote: »

If you don't like your job, why do it?

Yeah, sure ye can always make a tax-free living being one of the 10,000 too many taxis on our streets.

krudler

Where To wrote: »

Someone who does the job because the actually like doing it, wouldn't bother me if they were a millionaire or a pauper.

It's all about attitude.:)

I'm sure everyone who stacks shelves or hands people burgers wakes up every day thinking how awesome their lives are, some people just work for the money or to fund their education or for whatever reason, yes there are crap jobs that people would prefer to not be doing but have to if they need the cash, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. You can just do a job for the money and still do it well, I do.

Czarcasm

krudler wrote: »

I'm sure everyone who stacks shelves or hands people burgers wakes up every day thinking how awesome their lives are, some people just work for the money or to fund their education or for whatever reason, yes there are crap jobs that people would prefer to not be doing but have to if they need the cash, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. You can just do a job for the money and still do it well, I do.

I think it really all comes down to attitude, if you're passionate about what you do, you excel at it and therefore the corollary of that is promotion and an increase in income.

I know my experience is only anecdotal, individualistic at best, but I worked as a burger flipper, bar man, etc, and with the right attitude, I always found a reason to be passionate about what I did, which led to promotions and an increased income.

I am now self employed and because I am passionate about what I do, I excel at it and the corollary of that is an increased demand for my services, which means an increase in my income.

I also do voluntary unpaid work (haven't seen that aspect mentioned in this thread yet), and I am just as passionate about it.

It's too easy to say money can be a motivator in a job and you can do your job well, but in order to increase your income, you need to be passionate about what you do, and when you excel at your job, the increases in promotion and income come as a secondary result of that.

Your first motivation should be job satisfaction, otherwise you just end up like the proverbial hamster in a treadmill, caught up in just doing the daily grind, just doing a job for the sake of it because it keeps a roof over your head and the baliffs from the door.

It's my firm belief that nobody HAS to do a job they don't WANT to do, and nobody should stay in a job where they are not satisfied. Not only are you doing those around you a dis-service, but the most unfortunate thing is the person you are doing the biggest dis-service to, is yourself.

tayto lover

Where To wrote: »

Someone who does the job because the actually like doing it, wouldn't bother me if they were a millionaire or a pauper.

It's all about attitude.:)

I got a rich plumber to fix a leak.
The neck of the fcuker wanting money for doing that.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

People who strike over a few quid and leave patients to die and others in life threatening situations

Are they motivated by money or because they care about their job?

It would seem, they were motivated to enter the profession on the basis of money. So in that situation money can be a motivator. But when the sh1t hits the fan and the level money decreases or stays the same, they don't care about their job. Have the levels of pay attracted people who don't care?


I've said it before and I'll say it again, Dr. Quinn medicine woman wasn't motivated by money and she wouldn't have went on with this type of crap

A starving nurse is not much good to you either even if she likes her job.

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

A starving nurse is not much good to you either even if she likes her job.

Who's starving on their wages? And if they are, it's because they've got their spending priorities wrong

Czarcasm

tayto lover wrote: »

A starving nurse is not much good to you either even if she likes her job.

A person who feels their income is insufficient to support the aspirational lifestyle they feel they are entitled to, instead of complaining about it, should educate themselves by upskilling or re-training on a different career path.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Who's starving on their wages? And if they are, it's because they've got their spending priorities wrong

Well there's not many taking up the offer of jobs on 80% of their wages.

For Paws

What is a 'Front Line Worker' ?

tayto lover

Czarcasm wrote: »

A person who feels their income is insufficient to support the aspirational lifestyle they feel they are entitled to, instead of complaining about it, should educate themselves by upskilling or re-training on a different career path.

Hard to do if they're in their late 40's or 50's in fairness.

HondaSami

tayto lover wrote: »

Well there's not many taking up the offer of jobs on 80% of their wages.

It's laughable that the government actually thought people would be falling over themselves applying for these positions, it's even more laughable that lots of posters on here would not apply either even though they like to berate the PS they would not work for the money offered.

Czarcasm

tayto lover wrote: »

Hard to do if they're in their late 40's or 50's in fairness.

It's a cliche, but nothing worth doing was ever easy. It might be hard to do, even harder if you're older again, but it's not impossible.

I have friends that were nurses here, went off to Scotland and Australia, one of them is back now having landed herself a good position in Beaumont because she upskilled herself while she was away.