Leinster schools cup *read mod note in post 1 27/2/13*

rughug

Bridge93 wrote: »

Cant really say they were second best. I'd say overall territory was fairly 50/50 Roscrea were more clinical for a while. But coat it whatever way you want rock had a man less for 30 minutes and were 11 down with 15 to go and won. That's impressive and in my biased view surely they deserve everything they got for that. Roscrea weren't anywhere near as fit. Rock had more of the game when they had 14 which is something. Bar the two tries and one other occasion Roscrea were defending for the last 30

To say Roscrea were not as fit shows a total lack of understanding and respect for the situstion Roscrea find themselves in. Its purely down to strength in numbers off the bench. 2 tries by Dwan and Fitzpatrick .1200 student body v 200 . Give us a break. By the way felt Foley a huge loss as an option at O.H. when Gaffney tired. Foley and Carroll only 15 years. Lavelle and Wharton 16. Any big grizzly forwards welcome into Roscrea for next years adsault. The rubbish about the school closing is totally untrue.Onwards and upwards.

Bridge93

Blackrock generally below the SCT field three 6 year teams and a 6th year social team (Castle), as well as two 4th/5th year teams (house). The house set up also has two less serious strictly 5th year teams and there are two strictly 4th year teams (colts) for those who don't make the house teams. I know rocks numbers are far larger than others but this way of segregating ages gets more people games and playing rugby with their friends and peers at a level they enjoy. Maybe it's the way others should go rather than throwing everyone into senior rugby together.

lurtz

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Luke McGrath, Noel Reid, Dan Leavy, Cathal Marsh.

if you're going down that route David Doyle is in the academy as well..

FrannoFan wrote: »

Hard to claim Keith Gleeson as he moved to Oz at a really young age.

There is a question of how players are treated in Michaels,do they suffer burn out?i asked before about the 2007 cup winning side and who is even playing AIL from that side.
This year Michaels didn't put out a transition year team. They won the cup last year so seems bizarre. Undoubtedly they will start producing players as outlined there are 4 in the academy who should progress but i would question is it proportional to the quality of the sides they manage to field in the SCT

Ive thought for a while that there is a problem with these lads sufffering a burnout or whatever you want to call it. Talking to lads who left recently there is a lack of ambition to continue playing at a level theyre capable of playing at.

Player14 wrote: »

That is true but there are also a lot more people quitting comepetitive rugby in Michaels during school. Apparently there are about 16 sixth years playing competitively every year now.
I'm sure rock have at least a seconds team of just 6th years.

yeah rock field 2 maybe 3 teams of just 6 years,its castle or house one of the other

opinionatedfan

is Lavelle the SH? was pretty impressed by him and his just command in general.

Is Heffernan a 6th year?

No team could suffer the losses of top line players like Moloney and O'Brien and not be affected.

Bridge93

rughug wrote: »

To say Roscrea were not as fit shows a total lack of understanding and respect for the situstion Roscrea find themselves in. Its purely down to strength in numbers off the bench. 2 tries by Dwan and Fitzpatrick .1200 student body v 200 . Give us a break. By the way felt Foley a huge loss as an option at O.H. when Gaffney tired. Foley and Carroll only 15 years. Lavelle and Wharton 16. Any big grizzly forwards welcome into Roscrea for next years adsault. The rubbish about the school closing is totally untrue.Onwards and upwards.

They were playing 14 men for 30 minutes. They were not as fit as Rock and you cannot claim otherwise. And again this small school debate really isn't the same if many of the players are there before heading to Connachts academy

rughug

opinionatedfan wrote: »

is Lavelle the SH? was pretty impressed by him and his just command in general.

Is Heffernan a 6th year?

No team could suffer the losses of top line players like Moloney and O'Brien and not be affected.

Yes. Lavelle has only been at SH since Jan but has done a fine job. Agree O Brien,Moloney , Heffernan huge losses but they will have huge futures in rugby from here on . There are other grizzly forwards out there aged 16 plus and Roscrea do offer scholsrships.

CGD

Leinster5 wrote: »

Well St. Michaels from what I hear struggle to get numbers for competitive rugby, especially from 6th year. Harold{a Leinster rep if I'm not mistaken} and several others supposedly decided not to play rugby this year and I remember seeing a post on last years thread about Allen, who now starts hooker for Michaels', refusing to play last year. In Clongowes, there's no problems with getting players to continue playing competitive rugby after school, even some of my Clongowes classmates{who finished school 5 years ago} still play for AIL teams. It's a problem the IRFU need to address quickly.

Wouldn't be true at all just look at players from sct tems that have left Clongowes in lat 3 years! Plenty of them are doing well but just as many have more or less quit altogether this is not exclusive to Michaels and Clongowes but is a country wide problem with young lad leaving 2nd level.burn out happens but is only one of the many reasons why lads drop out

opinionatedfan

Bridge93 wrote: »

They were playing 14 men for 30 minutes. They were not as fit as Rock and you cannot claim otherwise. And again this small school debate really isn't the same if many of the players are there before heading to Connachts academy

wouldn't say many, maybe Walsh and certainly SOB are probably bound that way.

Others involved with Connacht are Corcoran, Kelly, Gavin.

lurtz

Bridge93 wrote: »

They were playing 14 men for 30 minutes. They were not as fit as Rock and you cannot claim otherwise. And again this small school debate really isn't the same if many of the players are there before heading to Connachts academy

you cant infer that its a sort of sub academy for connacht rugby. Weve seen many schools take in promising club players,including rock,we could name a good few players who've moved to rock. Rocks strength in numbers was clearly evident,when you're able to bring on guys the size of fitzpatrick and dwan (an absolute monster),and have one interpro on the bench and another not in the squad.

rughug

Bridge93 wrote: »

They were playing 14 men for 30 minutes. They were not as fit as Rock and you cannot claim otherwise. And again this small school debate really isn't the same if many of the players are there before heading to Connachts academy

My friend .Where the hell did Loughman appear from. Sean o Brien .Rory Moloney.and Oisin Heffernan have been boarding in Roscrea for the last 5 plus years. This Connacht academy thing is rubbish. It just happens that over half the students there are from west of the Shannon and the school should not be knocked for helping these lads develop.

The Pheasant

rughug wrote: »

To say Roscrea were not as fit shows a total lack of understanding and respect for the situstion Roscrea find themselves in. Its purely down to strength in numbers off the bench. 2 tries by Dwan and Fitzpatrick .1200 student body v 200 . Give us a break. By the way felt Foley a huge loss as an option at O.H. when Gaffney tired. Foley and Carroll only 15 years. Lavelle and Wharton 16. Any big grizzly forwards welcome into Roscrea for next years adsault. The rubbish about the school closing is totally untrue.Onwards and upwards.

Roscrea weren't as fit - In the last minutes of the match they seemed to run out of steam and lost the intensity they'd been maintaining throughout the rest of the match...their "situation" is irrelevant regarding fitness levels at least.

ormond lad

On the issue of lads stopping playing the sport that is the total issue with the schools and schools having no real links with clubs.
Lads go from training 3/4 times a week, being treated like gods at school, having 4000/5000 at games to something completely different.
You go from playing age grade schools to maybe playing junior rugby and training like pros to having games where you are playing with/against 3/4 players who had to be dragged out of bed after a night out
What time is Michaels Newbridge tomorrow?

opinionatedfan

roscrea were also holding on late to beat terenure

rughug

They also did not have the depth on the bench. The fresh legs literally with Dwan and Fitzgerald helped Rock to 2 tries. Roscrea had a15 year old junior cert on their bench .Doesnt happen in Williamstown. as it doesnt have to .

opinionatedfan

ormond lad wrote: »

What time is Michaels Newbridge tomorrow?

4.

also there is a huge drop off even at clubs once guys hit college and drinking

lurtz

The Pheasant wrote: »

Roscrea weren't as fit - In the last minutes of the match they seemed to run out of steam and lost the intensity they'd been maintaining throughout the rest of the match...their "situation" is irrelevant regarding fitness levels at least.

Last time I checked you needed sufficient endurance to get back into the opposition half and win a penalty in the last 2 mins of an intense game after a long period of defense on your own line..but maybe not seeing as you seem to have a vast knowledge of the cardiovascular capabilities of the roscrea players

lurtz

rughug wrote: »

They also did not have the depth on the bench. The fresh legs literally with Dwan and Fitzgerald helped Rock to 2 tries. Roscrea had a15 year old junior cert on their bench .Doesnt happen in Williamstown. as it doesnt have to .

which lad was that? the sub 9 with the bowl haircut?

rughug

The Pheasant wrote: »

Roscrea weren't as fit - In the last minutes of the match they seemed to run out of steam and lost the intensity they'd been maintaining throughout the rest of the match...their "situation" is irrelevant regarding fitness levels at least.

In the last minutes of the match they went away from their style of play which ought to have been to keep it tight within the pack. Perhaps they also had one eye on the finishing line. Do not say that fitness was the relevant issue here. More, focus and game plan.

The Pheasant

lurtz wrote: »

Last time I checked you needed sufficient endurance to get back into the opposition half and win a penalty in the last 2 mins of an intense game after a long period of defense on your own line..but maybe not seeing as you seem to have a vast knowledge of the cardiovascular capabilities of the roscrea players

Touched a nerve have I? Alright then it must have just been a coincidence that they conceded both tries so late in the game

Player14

lurtz wrote: »

which lad was that? the sub 9 with the bowl haircut?

Please say the reference to his hair as a bowl was not a pop at a 17 year old?

Leinster196

The Pheasant wrote: »

Touched a nerve have I? Alright then it must have just been a coincidence that they conceded both tries so late in the game

blackrock got a surge of energy after their 15 made that brilliant break through the midfield which was nothing to do with fitness. From then on the momentum was with them as well as the adrenaline due to them being down and it's easier to attack than to defend anyway so obviously roscrea were going to struggle. Also with their limited numbers roscrea clearly lacked the impact off the bench that rock had (dwan for example). Roscrea still had the energy to get back inside the rock half at the end

WiseSam

Wow, hardly a word about the second semi final tomorrow?

Bridge93

lurtz wrote: »

Last time I checked you needed sufficient endurance to get back into the opposition half and win a penalty in the last 2 mins of an intense game after a long period of defense on your own line..but maybe not seeing as you seem to have a vast knowledge of the cardiovascular capabilities of the roscrea players

Penalty was out of range though wasn't it so they weren't that far into opposition half. And they weren't on their line for long Rock scored two phases after the scrum. AND the long periods of defence in their own 22 didn't seem to affect the 14 Rock men. The most telling sign for me that Roscrea tired was when the maul that had been comfortably on top suddenly got smashed towards the end up in the Rock 22.

opinionatedfan

WiseSam wrote: »

Wow, hardly a word about the second semi final tomorrow?

it will be close, but Micheal's will win.

Interested to see Darcy for bridge though. 4 tries so far.

themont85

FrannoFan wrote: »

Hard to claim Keith Gleeson as he moved to Oz at a really young age.

There is a question of how players are treated in Michaels,do they suffer burn out?i asked before about the 2007 cup winning side and who is even playing AIL from that side.
This year Michaels didn't put out a transition year team. They won the cup last year so seems bizarre. Undoubtedly they will start producing players as outlined there are 4 in the academy who should progress but i would question is it proportional to the quality of the sides they manage to field in the SCT

4 is a fantastic number. The Academy is not that big.

Swords2

I think blackrocks 13 has been stand out all campaign excelled in defense, linked up attacks with poise and not to mention his 16/17 strike ratio from the tee never seen a schools player so accurate off the kicking tee. this lad is the real deal

opinionatedfan

Make up of the current Leinster academy:

Clongowes: 6 (Brian Byrne, Ed Byrne, Tadhg Beirne, Jordan Coghlan, Conor Gilsenan, Jack O'Connell)
Micheals: 4 (Noel Reid, Luke McGrath, Cathal Marsh, Dan Leavy)
Youths: 3 (Tadhg Furlong, Andrew Boyle, Adam Byrne)
Newbridge: 2 (James Tracy, Sam Coghlan-Murray)
Blackrock: 1 (Gavin Thornbury)
Gerards: 1 (Jack Conan)
Gonzaga: 1 (David Doyle)
Marys: 1 (Darren Hudson)
Castleknock: 1 (Martin Moore)
Andrews: 1 (Ben Marshall)
Belvo: 1 (Colm O'Shea)
Wesley: 1 (Josh Van Der Flier)

Player14

Swords2 wrote: »

I think blackrocks 13 has been stand out all campaign excelled in defense, linked up attacks with poise and not to mention his 16/17 strike ratio from the tee never seen a schools player so accurate off the kicking tee. this lad is the real deal

You obviously didn't watch Ross Byrne's cup campaign last year.

FellasFellas

Player14 wrote: »

You obviously didn't watch Ross Byrne's cup campaign last year.

I remember Byrne being exceptional, but Ringrose is something else.

FrannoFan

When you look at the breakdown of the leinster academy it does look like Michaels are delivering proportionally.

Also its great to see the distribution of schools represented. really shows the days of having to go to one of the big rugby schools to get noticed is gone.

I would imagine Ross Byrne will be joining the ranks in the academy, if not immediately after a season in the Sub-Academy. Wouldn't think too many would be going straight in this year. all depends on what kind of pressure is coming from other sources. I heard a rumor leicster have been in contact with a number of players, nothing confirmed but wouldn't be surprising.

FellasFellas

Bridge93 wrote: »

Penalty was out of range though wasn't it so they weren't that far into opposition half. And they weren't on their line for long Rock scored two phases after the scrum. AND the long periods of defence in their own 22 didn't seem to affect the 14 Rock men. The most telling sign for me that Roscrea tired was when the maul that had been comfortably on top suddenly got smashed towards the end up in the Rock 22.

First of all, you don't choose where you get your penalties on a rugby pitch. Plus, if Rock hadn't given it away, who knows if Crea could have trundled on for 20 more phases? It's nothing to do with fitness, cup matches ebb and flow. I know about Roscrea's training programme and it has copious amounts of fitness on it, as I assume Rocks does as well.

CGD

FellasFellas wrote: »

First of all, you don't choose where you get your penalties on a rugby pitch. Plus, if Rock hadn't given it away, who knows if Crea could have trundled on for 20 more phases? It's nothing to do with fitness, cup matches ebb and flow. I know about Roscrea's training programme and it has copious amounts of fitness on it, as I assume Rocks does as well.

Saying it has nothing to do with fitness is completley wrong. The fresh legs in Blackrocks pack that came on made a huge difference and turned the game.

FellasFellas

CGD wrote: »

Saying it has nothing to do with fitness is completley wrong. The fresh legs in Blackrocks pack that came on made a huge difference and turned the game.

But that has nothing to do with CCR being unfit? It's got something to do with fresh legs off the bench.

rughug

FellasFellas wrote: »

CCR is in danger of closing down due to poor numbers.

CCR is not even contemplating that as an option. Yes there was a blip on the intake last year but there are many lads out there considering a move to the school after Junior Cert and into their fantastic TY programme
And of course their Rugby Scholarship programme is only now kicking into action. All the Past Pupils of Roscrea are very proud of the lads achievements over the last 2 years. I think time will show that in 2012 beaten by champions Michaels in a replay after being robbed in the drawn game. 2013 beaten by the champions in waiting Rock, 11 points up with 15 minutes to go. When u have never won it . It really is a game of INCHES. And Roscrea can hold their heads high, right now.

backrower8

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Kev McLaughlin and Tony Ensor (fullback in the 70s)

Doh! re Kev and I remember Ensor alright but didn't know he was a Zaga man

11393551

More about todays game, how do people see it going?i reckon new bridge to put up a good fight until michaels pull away in the last 20 min

backrower8

11393551 wrote: »

More about todays game, how do people see it going?i reckon new bridge to put up a good fight until michaels pull away in the last 20 min

It doesn't really matter about today. The cup is 'coming home' :rolleyes: to Rock and Paddy Power agrees quoting odds of Rock at 4/11; Michaels 2/1 and Newbridge 20/1!!

It will be interesting to see how those prices change once today's semi is over but 4/11 is an amazing vote of confidence...or maybe they have taken enough money for Rock and are trying to tempt bets on the others.

Before the last semi Rock were about 10/11; Michaels 6/4; Roscrea 6/1 & Newbride 14/1

.ak

Off topic posts deleted. TBH we've been pretty lenient. Next thing that even looks like an infraction will warrant a ban.

CGD

backrower8 wrote: »

It doesn't really matter about today. The cup is 'coming home' :rolleyes: to Rock and Paddy Power agrees quoting odds of Rock at 4/11; Michaels 2/1 and Newbridge 20/1!!

It will be interesting to see how those prices change once today's semi is over but 4/11 is an amazing vote of confidence...or maybe they have taken enough money for Rock and are trying to tempt bets on the others.

Before the last semi Rock were about 10/11; Michaels 6/4; Roscrea 6/1 & Newbride 14/1

I think I will take Michaels at 2/1! Providing theyl get through today it will be a cracking game, 2 very evenly matched teams in Rock & Michaels and other than 9 (advantage Rock) & 10 (advantage Michaels) a lot of 50/50 match ups you could argue Rock have a better back row or that Michaels have a better back 3. It will be a a very interesting game and nothing really between them for me after seeing all their cup matches this season.

backrower8

rughug wrote: »

CCR is not even contemplating that as an option. Yes there was a blip on the intake last year but there are many lads out there considering a move to the school after Junior Cert and into their fantastic TY programme
And of course their Rugby Scholarship programme is only now kicking into action. All the Past Pupils of Roscrea are very proud of the lads achievements over the last 2 years. I think time will show that in 2012 beaten by champions Michaels in a replay after being robbed in the drawn game. 2013 beaten by the champions in waiting Rock, 11 points up with 15 minutes to go. When u have never won it . It really is a game of INCHES. And Roscrea can hold their heads high, right now.

Clongowes were the Champions in Waiting before the final last year

FellasFellas

Lawton, Ringrose, Power, 5th or 6th years?

CGD

backrower8 wrote: »

Clongowes were the Champions in Waiting before the final last year

& Terenure were champions in waiting this year. As a neutral have picked Michaels to win but very hard to split Rock & Michaels

CGD

FellasFellas wrote: »

Lawton, Ringrose, Power, 5th or 6th years?

Lawton & Ringrose both 6th years

Bridge93

FellasFellas wrote: »

First of all, you don't choose where you get your penalties on a rugby pitch. Plus, if Rock hadn't given it away, who knows if Crea could have trundled on for 20 more phases? It's nothing to do with fitness, cup matches ebb and flow. I know about Roscrea's training programme and it has copious amounts of fitness on it, as I assume Rocks does as well.

Who's to say they would? They hadn't for 15 mins and hadn't in the phases leading to the penalty. And we seem to be ignoring the fact that for 28 mins they had an extra man.

Bridge93

Michaels should win comfortably they're a very good team.

opinionatedfan

Bridge93 wrote: »

Michaels should win comfortably they're a very good team.

I think bridge who area pretty young team will stick in there and give them a game but eventually Micheal's will be too much and they will stretch away in the second half.

BallHandling Hooker

opinionatedfan wrote: »

I think bridge who area pretty young team will stick in there and give them a game but eventually Micheal's will be too much and they will stretch away in the second half.

I'd go along with that. Michael's haven't been great starters thusfar in the competition anyway

Bridge93

opinionatedfan wrote: »

I think bridge who area pretty young team will stick in there and give them a game but eventually Micheal's will be too much and they will stretch away in the second half.

Yeah I'd have Newbridge has a far larger threat next year.

Joe D'Arcy

Does anyone know how I can pick up a live stream for outside Ireland

opinionatedfan

Micheal's Team:

1. Harry Redmond
2. Richie Allen
3. Denis Coulson
4. Ross Molony
5. James Ryan
6. Charlie Cregan
7. Alex Penny
8. Josh Murphy
9. Nick McCarthy
10. Ross Byrne
11. Danny Green
12. Matthew Gilsenan
13. Adam Leavy
14. Mikey O'Hare
15. Cian Kelleher