Please explain what it exactly means.

THENORTHSIDER

My son is registering for a local club and there is a line in it that they want me to sign but I don't understand the significance or why its there could anyone explain the reason for it in real terms.

" I agree that XXXXXXX XXXX XXX Juvenile section, it's trustees or members, shall not be responsible for any loss, damage or injury whatsoever suffered by my child, through the negligence or otherwise of any member of the club"

Procrastastudy

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

My son is registering for a local club and there is a line in it that they want me to sign but I don't understand the significance or why its there could anyone explain the reason for it in real terms.

" I agree that XXXXXXX XXXX XXX Juvenile section, it's trustees or members, shall not be responsible for any loss, damage or injury whatsoever suffered by my child, through the negligence or otherwise of any member of the club"

Pretty standard waiver. You won't sue if he hurts himself playing GAA/sewing/knitting whatever. How enforceable such a waiver is if it was down to negligence is something I should know and have completely forgotten.

Skinnykenyan

Basically they dont want to be liable for anything that happens to members so they ask you to sign this. If you sign it you accept that the club are not responsible which means you won't have any recourse. If you dont sign it then your son wont be able to become a member

THENORTHSIDER

Im not very comfortable signing this part. The other sections before it talk about child protection, welfare, promotion etc and seem very much as one would expect. This last piece seems to pretty much erase the notion of welfare and protection.

Acknowledging this appears to me rules out the club being responsible for anything from injury to abuse.

Paulw

Skinnykenyan wrote: »

Basically they dont want to be liable for anything that happens to members so they ask you to sign this. If you sign it you accept that the club are not responsible which means you won't have any recourse. If you dont sign it then your son wont be able to become a member

But is that clause legally binding? I thought that you couldn't just sign away your legal rights like that?

ldxo15wus6fpgm

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

Im not very comfortable signing this part. The other sections before it talk about child protection, welfare, promotion etc and seem very much as one would expect. This last piece seems to pretty much erase the notion of welfare and protection.

Acknowledging this appears to me rules out the club being responsible for anything from injury to abuse.

To be honest I'd be very surprised if there are any sports/recreational activity clubs in Ireland that don't ask members for a liability waiver. Your son will find it incredibly difficult to take up such activities if you refuse to sign such waivers. Even some non physical activity groups, such as college societies etc. require such waivers.

Where injury/loss is sustained due to negligence of the club/its officers I'm pretty sure the waiver counts for nothing and you can still bring a claim (however I may be wrong, it's been a while)

nuac

Doubt if this waiver would be effective.

Cannot sign away an infant's rights

THENORTHSIDER

Jaylee Wrong Hangar wrote: »

To be honest I'd be very surprised if there are any sports/recreational activity clubs in Ireland that don't ask members for a liability waiver. Your son will find it incredibly difficult to take up such activities if you refuse to sign such waivers. Even some non physical activity groups, such as college societies etc. require such waivers.

Where injury/loss is sustained due to negligence of the club/its officers I'm pretty sure the waiver counts for nothing and you can still bring a claim (however I may be wrong, it's been a while)[/QUOTE

I'm involved in another sporting organisation and on the clubs registration form there is nothing like that on it so I believe its not the norm.

clashburke

what sort of club are you talking about?

THENORTHSIDER

Would that make a differance?

ldxo15wus6fpgm

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

I'm involved in another sporting organisation and on the clubs registration form there is nothing like that on it so I believe its not the norm.

I have been involved in heaps of different sports clubs throughout my years, where there's any chance at all of injury to the participant there's always a waiver somewhere.
That includes GAA (multiple clubs), rugby (multiple clubs and school teams), soccer (multiple clubs), american football, squash, tennis, table tennis, badminton, fighting sports (obviously), numerous adventure sports such as skiing, scuba, rock climbing, mountain biking, and probably a few more I've forgotten.

If it's not on the club's registration form it's probably on a separate disclaimer form that you signed without reading.

To be honest with you you're making a mountain out of a molehill. It's a normal facet of sports. Even if you're not joining up to a club many sports facilities require you to sign a disclaimer. You're basically promising not to try and sue them if you injure yourself - unless it's due to their negligence e.g. facilities in a state of disrepair. It does also cover them for unforseeable accidents, e.g. a light fitting falling on you, but to be honest the chances of such incidents occurring are slim to none.
I, and the vast majority of people, have no issue with signing disclaimer forms (once I've had a quick read through!) and if you do you shouldn't expect to be able to take part in club sports.

Paulw

Jaylee Wrong Hangar wrote: »

Even if you're not joining up to a club many sports facilities require you to sign a disclaimer. You're basically promising not to try and sue them if you injure yourself - unless it's due to their negligence e.g. facilities in a state of disrepair. It does also cover them for unforseeable accidents, e.g. a light fitting falling on you, but to be honest the chances of such incidents occurring are slim to none.

But, my understanding is, that clause is unenforceable in law. You would still have the right to sue them for any incident outside of your own direct control.

So, if a light fitting did fall on you, you would be able to take a legal case against them.

THENORTHSIDER

Jaylee Wrong Hangar wrote: »

I have been involved in heaps of different sports clubs throughout my years, where there's any chance at all of injury to the participant there's always a waiver somewhere.
That includes GAA (multiple clubs), rugby (multiple clubs and school teams), soccer (multiple clubs), american football, squash, tennis, table tennis, badminton, fighting sports (obviously), numerous adventure sports such as skiing, scuba, rock climbing, mountain biking, and probably a few more I've forgotten.

If it's not on the club's registration form it's probably on a separate disclaimer form that you signed without reading.

To be honest with you you're making a mountain out of a molehill. It's a normal facet of sports. Even if you're not joining up to a club many sports facilities require you to sign a disclaimer. You're basically promising not to try and sue them if you injure yourself - unless it's due to their negligence e.g. facilities in a state of disrepair. It does also cover them for unforseeable accidents, e.g. a light fitting falling on you, but to be honest the chances of such incidents occurring are slim to none.
I, and the vast majority of people, have no issue with signing disclaimer forms (once I've had a quick read through!) and if you do you shouldn't expect to be able to take part in club sports.

Far from me making a mountain out of a molehill :cool:. My son has played with the club for a number of years but I have never seen this line before so therefore i think as a concerned parent I should ask the questions.

The club I'm involved with doesn't have it on their registration form and I went through it last nite to check.

It just appears to me that they are for promoting welfare and promotion on one hand and on the other saying if something happens your on your own.

az2wp0sye65487

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

Far from me making a mountain out of a molehill :cool:. My son has played with the club for a number of years but I have never seen this line before so therefore i think as a concerned parent I should ask the questions.

The club I'm involved with doesn't have it on their registration form and I went through it last nite to check.

It just appears to me that they are for promoting welfare and promotion on one hand and on the other saying if something happens your on your own.

Is it not more a case that they are for promoting welfare - ie. doing everything in their power to ensure people's welfare is a priority, however they will not accept responsibility for your child / other member's actions...?

THENORTHSIDER

Ezequiel Rapping Protein wrote: »

Is it not more a case that they are for promoting welfare - ie. doing everything in their power to ensure people's welfare is a priority, however they will not accept responsibility for your child / other member's actions...?

Yes I agree they are not accepting responsibilty and that bothers me because I believe they are attempting to cover themselves no matter what happens.

Thanks for all the replies and I'm going to ask the club the question and see what they say.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Paulw wrote: »

But, my understanding is, that clause is unenforceable in law. You would still have the right to sue them for any incident outside of your own direct control.

So, if a light fitting did fall on you, you would be able to take a legal case against them.

Nope, you can very easily sign rights away. However, some rights you cannot. In this case, the clause attempts to prevent THENORTHSIDER or his child suing the club or it's officers no matter what caused injury/loss. Again, I'm going off foggy memory here, but I seem to remember that Irish courts have stated that claims can still be brought where it can be shown that the injury was caused by the club's negligence.

So if a light fitting which had been well maintained fell on you in a freak accident, you would not be able to take a claim.
However, if that light fitting had been neglected and no repairs made and it then fell, you might have a claim.

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

Far from me making a mountain out of a molehill :cool:. My son has played with the club for a number of years but I have never seen this line before so therefore i think as a concerned parent I should ask the questions.

The club I'm involved with doesn't have it on their registration form and I went through it last nite to check.

It just appears to me that they are for promoting welfare and promotion on one hand and on the other saying if something happens your on your own.

You obviously have the right to ask questions etc., I'm not saying you shouldn't. I just think you're making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Just because it's not on the registration form does not mean you haven't signed one, it could be a separate form.

Of course they are. No local sports club has the funds to take a massive hit and pay the bills every time billy or mickey falls and breaks something. Some clubs will however, provide insurance cover for it's members.

Kanye

You can't contract away a future cause of action. These liability disclaimers are all BS. Car parks, airports, pubs etc. The only benefit these waivers have is keeping sign printers in business, tbh.

valleyoftheunos

Kanye wrote: »

You can't contract away a future cause of action. These liability disclaimers are all BS. Car parks, airports, pubs etc. The only benefit these waivers have is keeping sign printers in business, tbh.

Well thats just not true, liability disclaimers are of course effective if done fairly and within the rules of contact law.

OP, if the club doesn't limit it's liability to it's members they could be liable for large sums and wouldn't be able to operate. I imagine that insurance either wasn't available or was prohibitively expensive, the result is that everyone has to take part at their own risk or the club can't exist.

As I'm sure you realise the welfare and child protection parts relate to the procedures and vetting they put in place to make sure no child is at risk of abuse while taking part in the club.

Absolutely ask any questions you might have and satisfy yourself that everything is as it should be. However the response could be that if you can't accept the terms your son can't play.

Kanye

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Well thats just not true, liability disclaimers are of course effective if done fairly and within the rules of contact law.

You're going to have to back that up because it doesn't make any sense. How could you possibly contract out of enforcing a right you don't have? Forbearance to sue is only valid consideration where there's an extant cause of action.

valleyoftheunos

Kanye wrote: »

You're going to have to back that up because it doesn't make any sense. How could you possibly contract out of enforcing a right you don't have? Forbearance to sue is only valid consideration where there's an extant cause of action.

You are confusing the right to sue with a cause of action, they are not the same thing.

If I am a member of a football club (and I haven't signed any liability waiver), I have a right, as of this moment, to sue them for any injury I sustain in the future because of a negligent act by them. I already have the right, therefore I can contract out of it.

If I were to suffer an injury because of their negligence then that injury would be a cause of action. my cause of action comes into existence when I am injured, not my right to sue.

Exclusion clauses are valid in law and have been held to be so over and over and over in cases dealing with everything from carparks to massive oil tankers. Once the rules of contract law and fairness are adhered to, an exclusion clause is valid.

Kanye

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

You are confusing the right to sue with a cause of action, they are not the same thing.

I don't think I am.

Exclusion clauses are valid in law and have been held to be so over and over and over in cases dealing with everything from carparks to massive oil tankers. Once the rules of contract law and fairness are adhered to, an exclusion clause is valid.

That's fine, all I'm asking is that you provide a single example of such a case and I'll hold my hands up. I'll still think it's ridiculous but I'll hold my hands up.

Procrastastudy

Kanye wrote: »

I don't think I am.


That's fine, all I'm asking is that you provide a single example of such a case and I'll hold my hands up. I'll still think it's ridiculous but I'll hold my hands up.

You want an example of an exclusion clause or the OPs situation?

Exclusion Clauses:

Cloakrooms - Roche v Cork, Blackrock and Passage Rly Co. [1889] 24 LR (Ir) 250
Missing Turkeys - Leonard v Great Northern Railyway [1912] 46 ILTR 220

Law on signatures is given in L'Estrange

I could go on copying the Contract manual

valleyoftheunos

Kanye wrote: »

I don't think I am.


That's fine, all I'm asking is that you provide a single example of such a case and I'll hold my hands up. I'll still think it's ridiculous but I'll hold my hands up.

I think you are. You are also confusing situations where forbearance is merely a term in a contract and those (rare) situations where such forbearance is also the consideration.

Procrastastudy wrote: »

You want an example of an exclusion clause or the OPs situation?

Exclusion Clauses:

Cloakrooms - Roche v Cork, Blackrock and Passage Rly Co. [1889] 24 LR (Ir) 250
Missing Turkeys - Leonard v Great Northern Railyway [1912] 46 ILTR 220

Law on signatures is given in L'Estrange

I could go on copying the Contract manual

Spot on.