Would you have cracked!

Czarcasm

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

And by taking iit away from the child and giving it later (obviously dependent on behaviour) as a treat, wheres the problem?

They're a child, they'll learn to say no with great vim and gusto by the time early childhood is over. It's up to parents to encourage their children to be competent socially (e.g. saying no in situations that they don't want to proceed) by encouraging self esteem and confidence in their own abilities. Not by being rude to someone.

So they can't learn from their parent about how to behave in a mannerly way. Or else you're suggesting that a child shouldn't trust their parents judgement because you can't be interacting with strangers on any level, especially while a parent is present, or you'll be kidnapped/abused- exaggerated stranger danger or what

You do know that children usually learn how to behave by following their parent's cues, and not some random kind stranger. Unless you plan on handing the kid over to the stranger I suppose.

It's awful easy to suck the joy out of life, but jeez some of the best memories I have as a kid are getting a few bits and bobs as a kid that you didn't eggpect (sorry, sorry)! even if it's a silly book as hand me down, (I loved the t-shirts that my older English (they clearly had access to cooler stuff in Engerland!) cousins gave me and the old man who gave 10p after mass to go to the shop.

Your original point stood on the fact that saying no to the man who bought the egg would create a lot of unnecessary drama, but look at the analysis you've just done. This could simply be avoided by saying "NO!", or if you had to be polite about it after having your parental authority usurped by a stranger- "No thank you."

strobe

Madam_X wrote: »

Bet lots of people who say "You shouldn't give a child everything they whinge for" are the same people with unbridled venom towards small children screaming in public.

I bet lots of people who say "sure just let the child have it" are the same ones with unbridled venom for the number of spoilt children running around and flock to threads about hitting children with cries of 'sure you can't reason with a child, sometimes all they understand is a smack.'
Perhaps if they were a little more consistent and didn't always look for the easy way out when the child was small they would know this is bollix.

vitani

Madam_X wrote: »

Well that's not what I mean, because there isn't a double standard in your approach/view.

Fair play to you - that's what I would view as the ideal, but I wouldn't blame a parent for giving their child a treat in public to get them to quieten down, in order to ward off hostility from onlookers who don't understand that small children sometimes have tantrums no matter how competent their parents are.

Thanks - I took you up wrong!

Just to add what I meant by indulging a child - I was in a shared play area a few months back. There was a little boy there with his dad. He'd been playing with a toy but lost interest in it and started playing with something else. My daughter went towards the toy he had stopped playing with and he started to get upset.

His dad picked him up and started making a fuss of him, before bringing him off to get a drink.

I really do try not to judge someone else's parenting but tbh, I think the little lad was old enough to be told (and understand) that it was another child's turn.

I think some parents are almost afraid of tantrums sometimes.

HondaSami

true-or-false wrote: »

What were the "right reasons"? I can only see two reasons the man would have done it. Either he thought the mother couldn't buy it, or wouldn't buy it. In the case of "couldn't", it doesn't sound from the OP that the woman was too impoverished to buy a creme egg. If it was the case that he thought she "wouldn't", then he understood that the mother had made a decision not to get her child a treat, and thought the woman was wrong, and was trying to correct her mistake. Which is incredibly rude. Not to mention the fact that he had no idea about the context of the mother's decision and was probably doing far more harm than good.

Im sure he did not give it much thought other than buying a cream egg for a child. I don't think it's a bad thing, depending on how you look at it i suppose but im sure he did not see it as going against the mother.

Can people not be nice anymore, is everything seen as an ulterior motive?

The mother accepted the cream egg, she did not feel it necessary to have a go at the gentleman.

SimonTemplar

That child learned two important life lessons today:

1) If you don't get what you want, kick up as much of a fuss as possible and you'll eventually get your way (future retail managers beware - so much for your almighty returns policy).

2) It's perfectly OK to accept sweets from complete strangers. Nothing bad could ever come from that.

MrTsSnickers

strobe wrote: »

You believe the best approach when you tell your child they can't have something is to allow someone else to give it to them anyway, then remove it from the crying child's hand, them give it to them later anyway.

I believe the best approach would be to say "sorry, I already told him no". And to explain to the child why they can't have it.

I believe in not embarrassing people that were just trying to be kind by an over inflated sense of righteousness. Like I said it has gotten to the point that my child (in a butchers we go to regularly they give the kids lollipops when you pay) hands it over til later (this has happened through explaining that he cant have it now, but later after lunch/dinner or whatever that's no problem, if you've he's good). Or at birthday parties I've noticed that the kids that have very strict parents re sweets are the kids to really gorge themselves at the treat table. Jeez a balance without rudeness isn't hard to strike.

HondaSami

SimonTemplar wrote: »

That child learned two important life lessons today:

1) If you don't get what you want, kick up as much of a fuss as possible and you'll eventually get your way (future retail managers beware - so much for your almighty returns policy).

The child did not kick up a fuss.

wolfpawnat

Madam_X wrote: »

Bet lots of people who say "You shouldn't give a child everything they whinge for" are the same people with unbridled venom towards small children screaming in public.

I think a lot of those people just despise children for being outside of the classroom or their home. Some people seem to think they should be allowed go through their lives without having to encounter children, many of which feel that way and have children of their own, they just don't want to deal with any that are not their kids.

strobe

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

I believe in not embarrassing people that were just trying to be kind by an over inflated sense of righteousness. Like I said it has gotten to the point that my child (in a butchers we go to regularly they give the kids lollipops when you pay) hands it over til later (this has happened through explaining that he cant have it now, but later after lunch/dinner or whatever that's no problem, if you've he's good). Or at birthday parties I've noticed that the kids that have very strict parents re sweets are the kids to really gorge themselves at the treat table. Jeez a balance without rudeness isn't hard to strike.

I mentioned nothing of rudeness, in fact I emphasized politeness. Read my posts a little more carefully if you're intent on addressing them, it'll save us both time.

Embarrassing people? Come off it, saying "sorry I told him no" is hardly pulling his trousers round his ankles now is it? Is this man the most sensitive soul who has ever graced our fine and noble land, or what, in your imagination?

HondaSami

HondaSami wrote: »

Im sure he did not give it much thought other than buying a cream egg for a child. I don't think it's a bad thing, depending on how you look at it i suppose but im sure he did not see it as going against the mother.

Can people not be nice anymore, is everything seen as an ulterior motive?

The mother accepted the cream egg, she did not feel it necessary to have a go at the gentleman.

I can see what you mean - I'm sure he didn't actively decide to undermine the mother. However I don't think that the lack of visible anger from the mother means she was ok with it. The likelihood of the mother being a sadist purposely denying her child what it wanted in order to get her kicks is negligible compared to the likelihood of her saying no in order to discipline and instill a sense of patience/"can't always get whatever you want" in her child. I think it's a valuable lesson that a lot of parents don't bother to teach their child because it's easier to buy a creme egg than put up with crying.

I'm a bit biased to be honest because I work at a shop counter a day or two a week and the difference between the kids that take "no" and the kids that don't is huge. As is the difference between the parents of those two types of kids. And I don't say that purely from a judgmental standpoint. They do frequently cause havok at the tills.

puppieperson

nope would certainly not have bought the egg for the kid would have given him the evil eye look and bought the egg for myself and unwrapped it and then dropped it on the floor and then stood on it ha ha ha .......

wolfpawnat

Candie wrote: »

Exactly what I was thinking.

Give the child the egg, you're creating an entitled little brat who expects everything he wants to be handed to him - bad parent!

Don't give the child the egg, the child cries and you studiously ignore it, and the peace of everyone around is disrupted by 'screaming brat who's mother does nothing to shut it up' - bad parent!

To some people you are a bad parent for breathing. But it is so hard in public to ignore the tantrums because of the interferers and the judgemental people who make it so hard. I wouldn't mind, but I would put money they too are/were like that with their children.

Madam_X wrote: »

Fair play to you - that's what I would view as the ideal, but I wouldn't blame a parent for giving their child a treat in public to get them to quieten down, in order to ward off hostility from onlookers who don't understand that small children sometimes have tantrums no matter how competent their parents are.

I do the ultimate faux-pas, go straight to the sweeties, let him choose one and put it in the basket, if he misbehaves it goes back, so I get a good boy the whole way around the shop usually. But again, it is for after he helps with chores or if he eats his dinner.

clairefontaine

It's wasn't his place to buy sweets for a child he doesn't know.

One reason is it undermines the parent's authority.

It may only be a sweet, but some parents take the stance that if you keep giving into the little things when they are young, one day you will have a 12 year old demanding really big expensive things and you will end up with a very disappointed child because you have set a precedent that is very hard to undo.

Secondly, many many children have it drilled into their heads very young not to accept sweets from strangers, not to talk to strangers, so then the child is put into a double bind situation. In fact it would have been an opportunity for the parent to coach the child to say no to the stranger offering the sweets. People watching may have thought he was a rude child for this, but parents would think he is a safe child.

Czarcasm

Madam_X wrote: »

Bet lots of people who say "You shouldn't give a child everything they whinge for" are the same people with unbridled venom towards small children screaming in public.

I couldn't care less MX about other people's children screaming in public, I understand that's what children do to manipulate a situation- try and embarrass their parents.

When my child does it, I remove them from the situation, by force if necessary. This has meant that once in Dunnes Stores when he kicked off for babybels, I left down my basket, flipped him up over my shoulder and carried him out of the shop bawling and screaming. I had a word with him outside the shop, then went back in and finished our shopping.

Another day when he kicked off I took him by the collar of his jacket and marched him out of the shop. On the way out he whined "You can't do this to me, I'm a child!"

It was all I could do not to burst out laughing and keep a serious face so I could give him a stern talking to outside the shop.

He's a well behaved child now when we go shopping and actually does all the shopping by himself while I just follow around beside him, pays at the checkout and all while I pack the bags.

If I'd given him the babybel back then, I would've taught him that he gets a treat for nothing other than his ability to play on my fear of public embarrassment.

I've taken that ability away from him by turning it on him and showing him I don't have any fear of being embarrassed in public so he's wasting his time trying that tactic.

HondaSami

true-or-false wrote: »

I can see what you mean - I'm sure he didn't actively decide to undermine the mother. However I don't think that the lack of visible anger from the mother means she was ok with it. The likelihood of the mother being a sadist purposely denying her child what it wanted in order to get her kicks is negligible compared to the likelihood of her saying no in order to discipline and instill a sense of patience/"can't always get whatever you want" in her child. I think it's a valuable lesson that a lot of parents don't bother to teach their child because it's easier to buy a creme egg than put up with crying.

I'm a bit biased to be honest because I work at a shop counter a day or two a week and the difference between the kids that take "no" and the kids that don't is huge. As is the difference between the parents of those two types of kids. And I don't say that purely from a judgmental standpoint. They do frequently cause havok at the tills.

Maybe im wrong but i would hope he went away thinking he did something nice and hopefully the mother thought so too.

I agree with all the teaching yes and no with children but we all give in to them sometimes against our better judgement.

Boofle

Seen something similar my self in a supermarket recently. There was a little girl aged about 4 with her mother ahead of me in the queue. She took a Kinder egg from the sweet stand and quietly asked her mother if she could get it. Her mam said no. The little girl just asked once more and was told "no" again. Her mam took the egg from her and put it back on the stand. The child looked so sad. She didn't kick up a fuss or have a tantrum or anything. I think the mother probably just couldn't afford to buy the treat for her daughter; they looked very poor

Guess you just don't know anybody's circumstances; maybe the elderly man who bought the creme egg for the little boy just reckoned he was doing a good deed.

Czarcasm

HondaSami wrote: »

Or the child might remember the kind man who bought him a cream egg and the child might grow up to respect people and to be nice.

Sam with all due respect but it takes a bit more than a stranger with a creme egg to teach a child to respect people and be nice. It only takes seconds for them to learn that there are ways to get around their parents, usually by deferring to someone else, usurping their parents authority and thereby learning that they don't have to respect same when they can just get what they want from somebody else.

HondaSami

Czarcasm wrote: »

Sam with all due respect but it takes a bit more than a stranger with a creme egg to teach a child to respect people and be nice. It only takes seconds for them to learn that there are ways to get around their parents, usually by deferring to someone else, usurping their parents authority and thereby learning that they don't have to respect same when they can just get what they want from somebody else.

I know but can people not see it as a kind gesture rather than seeing it as the gentleman undermining the mother.

wolfpawnat

HondaSami wrote: »

I know but can people not see it as a kind gesture rather than seeing it as the gentleman undermining the mother.

It is a very kind gesture, but as a parent, no, you can only see it as undermining when you have to try and raise a child. There is nothing most parents would love more than to give their child every and any thing they would like, but no means no and people should respect a parents prerogative to say it.

HondaSami

wolfpawnat wrote: »

It is a very kind gesture, but as a parent, no, you can only see it as undermining when you have to try and raise a child. There is nothing most parents would love more than to give their child every and any thing they would like, but no means no and people should respect a parents prerogative to say it.

As a parent i see it as a kind gesture. No often starts out as NO but ends up as yes.

Czarcasm

HondaSami wrote: »

I know but can people not see it as a kind gesture rather than seeing it as the gentleman undermining the mother.

I can see of course the intention was genuine on the part of the gentleman Sam yes, but it's a bit like the earphone puller- there are some things you just don't do because some genuine gestures of kindness or empathy can be misconstrued and considered unwelcome and you're better in some cases to err on the side of caution.

If the child's mother said no, one would take that as an obvious signal that you don't have the right to usurp her authority just because it'll make you feel better.

MrTsSnickers

strobe wrote: »

I mentioned nothing of rudeness, in fact I emphasized politeness. Read my posts a little more carefully if you're intent on addressing them, it'll save us both time.

Embarrassing people? Come off it, saying "sorry I told him no" is hardly pulling his trousers round his ankles now is it? Is this man the most sensitive soul who has ever graced our fine and noble land, or what, in your imagination?

If I bought a kid in a cue behind me a treat (I wouldn't but that's not really the point), handed it to the parent/child and they said "sorry I told him no", I would be embarrassed, and I'm quite young, simply because, I'd tried to do a nice thing and it's declined in front of a cue of people (I also know many (especially older) people that think buying something for a small child/giving them money is a sign of luck).

We hear so much about the decline of the sense of community, but yet when it's offered, even if it is in kind of a weird way, it's refused. Although, I do draw the line at people trying to touch pregnant lady's bumps or babies in prams etc...ugh (anyone from Galway, Nora tried to touch my child in his pram when he was a few weeks old - bleugh!)

wolfpawnat

HondaSami wrote: »

As a parent i see it as a kind gesture. No often starts out as NO but ends up as yes.

As parents, of course we all say no sometimes and after a few minutes, no can become yes, but that is for us to decide, not anyone else, be they other family members or very nice random strangers, IMO anyway.

JustAddWater

How do you eat yours?

looksee

Creme eggs are horrible. A messy lump of gloop.

Scruffles

toddlers have communication,expression and emotional regulation difficulties so although woud not have automaticaly bought the child chocolate-because do not know her and any issues it woud cause,have also got a lot of understanding of kids and the difficulty they have learning to cope with feelings and being able to express themselves.
it isnt fair for people to assume theyre spoilt little shts when they tantrum in a public place over things such as a chocolate egg,both emotional regulation and expression are big minefields to kids to learn [many of us never get past that or are acutely impaired due to issues like ASDs and intelectual disability] ,they shoud be redirected in what theyre doing; perhaps offer them something non acidic and healthy when get home-no giving in but no punishing them for the way they operate either,they do not have the mental capacity to think like regular older kids or adults woud when it comes to manipulating parents into buying stuff for them.

yep their screaming is like shooting acid covered nails through the brain am saying that as someone with profound hearing sensitivity but having two nieces who are almost two and the other close by,it is so much easier to live with it by understanding them instead of
seeing them as noisy inconveniences.

the sis hates any of us giving the oldest one anything sweet including a drink of ribena, it has to be so diluted that even the niece feels insulted let alone us by watching it,will only give her treats if her ma says yes and a bit more than that when ma isnt here.
-the old guy who is being refered to in the OP is probably a grandad and is well used to sneaking his grandkids stuff as dad does the same to sisters kids.

its funny as people like the sis think healthy eating is unbeateable,she got told by the dentist the little ones teeth were being eroded by the acid from eating fruit and had to cut back on the amount.
and washing kids teeth often to combat sugar/acid isnt a definite sign they wil be good teeth either,mine have been totaly screwed since childhood due to severe dental flurorosis [caused by the fluoride from obsessive tooth paste eating,but thats another issue].

Dwork

I'm still wondering how you insulate a mother. Going with pipe-lag right now, but a warm blanket might be better. Sounds sexy, either way.

Duck Soup

I'd say that was one for the photo albumen.

Royal Legend

mariaalice wrote: »

I was in a shop this morning there was about 5 people there including a woman with a toddler of about 3 in his buggy...he asked for a cream egg with were at his eye line his mother said no...he started to cry.. not scream or have a temper tantrum just a pityful cry of please mama please mama which quietened down to a sob....I just knew all of us in the Que were thinking I'll buy it for him! but of course his mother had said no and you can interfered with her disision...but an elderly man in the Que purchased two of them and gave the child one the motherer graciously accepted it and did not tell yer man to get lost.

So would you have cracked particularity as the child was not bold or screaming I was just too afraid of insulating the mother by interfering.

How did you insulate the mother, did u get a grant from electric Ireland?

Jester252

I would have brought one and ate it in front of the child. I am a bad person