A Sign Of Things To Come Perhaps?

El Director

A Sign Of Things To Come Perhaps? I hope not.


A Sign Of Things To Come Perhaps?

From Tri Fingal FB site:

It is with great regret that Fingal Triathlon Club has to announce the cancellation of our second duathlon race which was due to take place this coming Saturday, 2nd March 2013.
I am sure you are aware there is an ongoing industrial dispute involving An Garda Siochána and as a result we do not have the support of the Gardaí and the County Council for our race. Consequently we do not have insurance cover for the race. As we all know ‘no insurance cover = no race’. Unfortunately this situation is totally outside the control of Fingal Triathlon Club.
We sincerely apologise for the late notification in cancelling the event. We completely understand how disappointing this news is for all competitors. For us it is truly disheartening to cancel an event that we have put a tremendous amount of time effort, organising and planning into.
At this time we are still planning the 3rd race for Saturday 30th March. If there are any developments regarding this race you will be informed ASAP.
Triathlon Ireland has been informed and will be issuing refunds to all athletes who had signed up for the race. This will happen over the next 2 weeks.
At this time we thank you most sincerely for the support you have given the club and hope that we will see you at our next event.

tunney

El Director wrote: »

A Sign Of Things To Come Perhaps? I hope not.


A Sign Of Things To Come Perhaps?

From Tri Fingal FB site:

It is with great regret that Fingal Triathlon Club has to announce the cancellation of our second duathlon race which was due to take place this coming Saturday, 2nd March 2013.
I am sure you are aware there is an ongoing industrial dispute involving An Garda Siochána and as a result we do not have the support of the Gardaí and the County Council for our race. Consequently we do not have insurance cover for the race. As we all know ‘no insurance cover = no race’. Unfortunately this situation is totally outside the control of Fingal Triathlon Club.
We sincerely apologise for the late notification in cancelling the event. We completely understand how disappointing this news is for all competitors. For us it is truly disheartening to cancel an event that we have put a tremendous amount of time effort, organising and planning into.
At this time we are still planning the 3rd race for Saturday 30th March. If there are any developments regarding this race you will be informed ASAP.
Triathlon Ireland has been informed and will be issuing refunds to all athletes who had signed up for the race. This will happen over the next 2 weeks.
At this time we thank you most sincerely for the support you have given the club and hope that we will see you at our next event.

It's this "industrial dispute" in any way related to why the Swords CC races are on hold as well.

AFAIK there is no actual Garda industrial dispute m

El Director

tunney wrote: »

It's this "industrial dispute" in any way related to why the Swords CC races are on hold as well.

AFAIK there is no actual Garda industrial dispute m

Yeah you are right. It is the removal of "good will" from the Gardai that is the problem here. That is a shame about the Swords league and yeah I'd say they are related.

This potential problem crossed my mind on Sat on my way to the Conamara Duathlon. In the briefing it stated that a Garda would be present on one of the more dangerous corners. I noted the absence if any Garda on the day. The event still went ahead though (those wildwest cowboys!). The action commenced on Fri night AFAIK

promethius

just out of interst took a look at the TI guidelines for event safety plan, organisers must themselves assess whether the gardai are required, could be a lot of plans being updated with that in mind if this continues to be an issue.

"Will Garda/PSNI presence be required at any specific/key junctions? If yes, please list these junctions/roundabouts where they will be located."

tough going to ensure a safe course without the gardai's cooperation.

sconhome

Isn't the problem that only Gardai can stop or direct traffic? If a normal person attempts to direct traffic or an accident occurs because you stopped traffic you could be held liable.

Maybe the answer is to give all marshals a cow on a lead. (Persons in charge of livestock may instruct traffic AFAIK too)

promethius

amphkingwest wrote: »

Isn't the problem that only Gardai can stop or direct traffic? If a normal person attempts to direct traffic or an accident occurs because you stopped traffic you could be held liable.

Maybe the answer is to give all marshals a cow on a lead. (Persons in charge of livestock may instruct traffic AFAIK too)

that's a good point you could well be right. i've seen many events where stewards are directing and stopping traffic. all goes back to the small print of the insurance contract. nice outside the box thinking on the cattle i like it

couerdelion

amphkingwest wrote: »

Maybe the answer is to give all marshals a cow on a lead. (Persons in charge of livestock may instruct traffic AFAIK too)

If we dressed a horse up as a cow would anyone notice?

promethius

couerdelion wrote: »

If we dressed a horse up as a cow would anyone notice?

you're using simpsons logic there
"Cows don't look like cows on film.... you've got to use horses!"

tunney

El Director wrote: »

Yeah you are right. It is the removal of "good will" from the Gardai that is the problem here. That is a shame about the Swords league and yeah I'd say they are related.

The "issue" relating to the Swords CC races has been ongoing for a year. Nothing to do with Joke Park 2.

fluboy

I am surprised by this. The Gardaí are only withdrawing their goodwill. They still have to carry out all other duties. If they are detailed to look after the traffic management while a race is on-going then they have to do that job. From what I understand they will not do any Non Public duty i.e. duty not paid for by the state such as inside Croke Park, O2, etc.

If a race has been granted permission by the local county council and prior notice given to the Gardaí, then there shouldn’t be any problem.

I may be wrong on this but that is my understanding.

BTH

fluboy wrote: »

I am surprised by this. The Gardaí are only withdrawing their goodwill. They still have to carry out all other duties. If they are detailed to look after the traffic management while a race is on-going then they have to do that job. From what I understand they will not do any Non Public duty i.e. duty not paid for by the state such as inside Croke Park, O2, etc.

If a race has been granted permission by the local county council and prior notice given to the Gardaí, then there shouldn’t be any problem.

I may be wrong on this but that is my understanding.

Gardaí are paid by the organising club to provide these services as races. Hence, the withdrawl of services.

fluboy

Right, therefore its non public duty. Thanks

tunney

fluboy wrote: »

Right, therefore its non public duty. Thanks

So in an effort to get public support they're going to pi$$ off the public.

Mary212

The guards are not paid by the organising club. They are rostered to cover the race. This is obviously viewed as added duties as they have withdrawn this service.
Triathlon Ireland insurance does not require Garda presence but it does require Garda clearance as well as county council clearance.

BTH

Mary212 wrote: »

The guards are not paid by the organising club.

Then why do we (and a host of other clubs) have to make a payment to Garda HQ every year to get them to cover our race??

elvis jones

Mary212 wrote: »

The guards are not paid by the organising club. They are rostered to cover the race. This is obviously viewed as added duties as they have withdrawn this service.
Triathlon Ireland insurance does not require Garda presence but it does require Garda clearance as well as county council clearance.

Welcome Mary, how long have you been a Garda;)

griffin100

BTH wrote: »

Then why do we (and a host of other clubs) have to make a payment to Garda HQ every year to get them to cover our race??

We've never made a payment to the Garda, we just tell them when we run a race and they take note. They have attended on the day and helped with traffic management at some races (and had no problem with club members directing traffic) but not always.

It depends on the size of the race and also the local superintendent. For large events the Guards will impose a charge. For smaller races they wont. I've been involved in much larger events than triathlons where Garda costs have been significant because of the numbers of Garda required and the potential risks. The final cost in my experience is always at the discretion of the super of sergeant.

Given the new rostering arrangement's and the work to rule by Garda it will get harder and harder to get Garda to attend races whether you pay them or not (to be clear the Garda on duty don't get your payment, it goes into a big black central hole).

tunney

Just saw this on TriathlonIreland, a clearer statement.

Perhaps I'm being simple, but how is this meant to do anything other than lower the standing of the Guards in the eyes of the public? Its not really giving a statement to government, have you seen the state of the politicians, I don't think they will give two fvcks about a cancelled duathlon. Joe Public on the other hand..... Cannot see this doing anything other than giving more support to the "gubbermint"

sconhome

Having this discussion with a customer this afternoon and a point that was raised is that even if the Gardai are rostered for duty on a traffic management or road closure during an event, with the cutbacks on funding, staff, vehicles etc attendence at our events may be considered non-critical services.

'sorry I cant attend to the bank robbery, I'm stuck on a junction' kind of way.

What I'm thinking is if a road closure permit is granted why are gardai required?

They are not required to be in attendence at road works where lane closures are permitted (there's a whole rigmarole around permits for this too).

Is it purely a need for traffic management?

tunney

amphkingwest wrote: »

Having this discussion with a customer this afternoon and a point that was raised is that even if the Gardai are rostered for duty on a traffic management or road closure during an event, with the cutbacks on funding, staff, vehicles etc attendence at our events may be considered non-critical services.

'sorry I cant attend to the bank robbery, I'm stuck on a junction' kind of way.

So what you're saying is reduce wages further to enable an increase headcount?

sconhome

No I would have expected its more the cutback on recruitment, reduction in transport, stopping of personal car use, closing of stations, that kind of thing is going to be the 'why' for lack of Garda availability.

I'm looking from the outside in also with no idea of the true reasons for the stopping of the events.

NorthernRaider

Time for the civic-minded volunteers of the Garda Reserve? Only problem is that they might be posted to more important tasks if this dispute widens.....

Mary212

I'm not a guard. Just a member of a triathlon club that has been adversely affected by this dispute.

elvis jones wrote: »

Welcome Mary, how long have you been a Garda;)

ronanmac

El Director wrote: »

This potential problem crossed my mind on Sat on my way to the Conamara Duathlon. In the briefing it stated that a Garda would be present on one of the more dangerous corners. I noted the absence if any Garda on the day. The event still went ahead though (those wildwest cowboys!). The action commenced on Fri night AFAIK

We've always had Gardaí on the course for the previous three Conamara Duathlons, but alarm bells went off on Friday evening when I heard the GRA stance on the news. The local Gardaí weren't contactable on Friday when we tried to confirm their presence for the following day, and sure enough, there was was no sign of a Garda or a squad car on Saturday.

Basically, we doubled up on marshals at key junctions and provided the lead car ourselves. The race went off smoothly (I would have been more comfortable with a Garda at two of the three junctions on the course), and the TI official was happy with our workaround. Certainly, there wasn't any suggestion from TI that the event would have to be postponed due to lack of Garda cover.

peter kern

Mary212 wrote: »

I'm not a guard. Just a member of a triathlon club that has been adversely affected by this dispute.

Thanks Mary for your imput.
Btw I was very impressed how Fingal tri seperated the bike and run course in the first race, that was a brill job.

Mary212

Thanks. We're always striving towards the perfect race!!! Hope your all signed up for the third race.

peter kern wrote: »

Thanks Mary for your imput.
Btw I was very impressed how Fingal tri seperated the bike and run course in the first race, that was a brill job.

El Director

ronanmac wrote: »

We've always had Gardaí on the course for the previous three Conamara Duathlons, but alarm bells went off on Friday evening when I heard the GRA stance on the news. The local Gardaí weren't contactable on Friday when we tried to confirm their presence for the following day, and sure enough, there was was no sign of a Garda or a squad car on Saturday.

Basically, we doubled up on marshals at key junctions and provided the lead car ourselves. The race went off smoothly (I would have been more comfortable with a Garda at two of the three junctions on the course), and the TI official was happy with our workaround. Certainly, there wasn't any suggestion from TI that the event would have to be postponed due to lack of Garda cover.

I can also confirm that the race was run very smoothly and safely without a Garda presence. It would have been nice of them however to drop you a line Ronán to inform you of the situation.

sconhome

Speaking to a Garda today about a cycle that's organised and they've no problem getting outriders and marshals. :rolleyes:

Who you know and all that.

He also suggested the number of retirements, stress on resources as the reasoning behind the lack of availability.

Kurt Godel

There's an article in todays's Irish Times about this issue of Gardai at events (in this specific case a GAA match). Its not looking too good for Tri clubs looking for Gardai to help marshal events.

Gardaí are tonight set to cause the first major disruption to public policing as part of their protest about pay cuts when they refuse to volunteer to work inside Croke Park for an intercounty football game.

The move will have knock-on effects across Dublin with foot patrols having to be scaled back to allow other gardaí to be diverted to police the stadium. Gardaí have refused to volunteer for overtime to work at the game.

The provision of policing inside sports stadiums is known as a non-public duty that the GAA and similar bodies must pay for themselves. Gardaí provide such services by volunteering for overtime. They are not rostered for such work as part of their normal duties.

The reduced patrolling in parts of Dublin city centre and some suburbs tonight to allow rostered gardaí to work at the game means some public order black spots will not be as heavily policed as normal.