Willie Frazer arrested- Jamie on the run.

Crooked Jack

SoulandForm wrote: »

I would agree with this. Ed Maloney's brilliant history of the Provos also confirms it. My point is that he should.

I really dont get the Adams hatred. I've never found him to be anything other than an honest and genuine republican. People seem to think his refusal to admit any possible past role in the IRA is some sort of sign of his dishonesty but frankly, it's just common sense.
Why would he risk two years in jail so that people who are going to hate him no matter what he does can get some sense of satisfaction?
Republicans arent going to be bothered wether he was or wasnt in the IRA and people who hate him arent going to find a new respect for him if he says he was.

gallag

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I really dont get the Adams hatred. I've never found him to be anything other than an honest and genuine republican. People seem to think his refusal to admit any possible past role in the IRA is some sort of sign of his dishonesty but frankly, it's just common sense.
Why would he risk two years in jail so that people who are going to hate him no matter what he does can get some sense of satisfaction?
Republicans arent going to be bothered wether he was or wasnt in the IRA and people who hate him arent going to find a new respect for him if he says he was.

Its probably more about admitting to membership of an organisation that killed many irish men women and children.

SoulandForm

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Republicans arent going to be bothered wether he was or wasnt in the IRA and people who hate him arent going to find a new respect for him if he says he was.

Go over to Republican.ie and you will find plenty of Republicans who loathe Adams.

At the end of the day the Provos dragged on a military campaign after it was clear it was going nowhere costing immense suffering and further division between both communities and at the end of it accepted the Unionist veto in PRINCIPLE and the two nations theory in PRINCIPLE while dressing the whole thing up as some great victory.

SoulandForm

Bertie Woot wrote: »

I can understand why you got no reply. Not even SF would go so far as to exclude NI people form joining the British armed forces. Considering that there are many Republic of Ireland citizens who are serving members of the British military, and that the Irish government have no issue with this, for the Shinners to prevent anyone in NI from joining any army they chose would be a form of prohibition, and not the right way to go about manifesting a supposed 'respect' for British and Northern Irish identity.

I like this a lot.

Blackbush1905

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I really dont get the Adams hatred. I've never found him to be anything other than an honest and genuine republican. People seem to think his refusal to admit any possible past role in the IRA is some sort of sign of his dishonesty but frankly, it's just common sense.
Why would he risk two years in jail so that people who are going to hate him no matter what he does can get some sense of satisfaction?
Republicans arent going to be bothered wether he was or wasnt in the IRA and people who hate him arent going to find a new respect for him if he says he was.

Surprise, surprise a Gerry adams fan boy and provo lover from south armagh, a ****ing rare bunch down there!!

Crooked Jack

Blackbush1905 wrote: »

Surprise, surprise a Gerry adams fan boy and provo lover from south armagh, a ****ing rare bunch down there!!

Clearly you aren't worth discussing anything with.

Crooked Jack

SoulandForm wrote: »

Go over to Republican.ie and you will find plenty of Republicans who loathe Adams.

I'm sure there are. That's not really the issue I raised though. I never said all republicans loved Adams, I said his IRA membership is hardly going to be a big concern for republicans one way or the other.

SoulandForm wrote: »

At the end of the day the Provos dragged on a military campaign after it was clear it was going nowhere costing immense suffering and further division between both communities and at the end of it accepted the Unionist veto in PRINCIPLE and the two nations theory in PRINCIPLE while dressing the whole thing up as some great victory.

Well if you hate the provos because (in your own opinion) they dragged on a military campaign then surely you'd be an admirer of Adams who had been doing his best to bring the conflict to an end from the early 90s.

Crooked Jack

SoulandForm wrote: »

Go over to Republican.ie and you will find plenty of Republicans who loathe Adams.

At the end of the day the Provos dragged on a military campaign after it was clear it was going nowhere costing immense suffering and further division between both communities and at the end of it accepted the Unionist veto in PRINCIPLE and the two nations theory in PRINCIPLE while dressing the whole thing up as some great victory.

PS - Just joined Republican.ie by the way. Thanks for that

Happyman42

Blackbush1905 wrote: »

The likes of Gerry Adams will never step aside, he's nothing but a sociopath who will do what ever it takes to further his own personal goals. He wants to write himself in history as the great irish republican, the man who reunited ireland and hes not going to step aside and let someone else take the credit. I never thought i'd admit say it but mcguinness at least seems genuine about reaching out to the unionist community, and his past is pretty much an open book, Gerry adams comes across as a crafty spin doctor and an unflinching pathological liar.

Look, if you have evidence he was in the IRA, please produce it or retract. How many years since the GFA and not one shred of evidence from military intelligence or anywhere else, just the opinions of journalists (a body of people who have never gotten anything wrong or who have not represented vested interests)

And eh, shock-horror....a politician with goals?
p.s. he has also said many times that reunification is unlikely in his lifetime.

jazz101

Happyman42 wrote: »

Look, if you have evidence he was in the IRA, please produce it or retract. How many years since the GFA and not one shred of evidence from military intelligence or anywhere else, just the opinions of journalists (a body of people who have never gotten anything wrong or who have not represented vested interests)

And eh, shock-horror....a politician with goals?
p.s. he has also said many times that reunification is unlikely in his lifetime.

There are pictures of him in IRA outfit at IRA funerals, after the period in which he claims to have left the IRA. There are numerous instances of numerous people claiming to have acted on his orders, people whose other contribution to clarifying the picture of the IRA has been invaluable.

And he constantly pushes for a referendum on a UI. Hell just last September he was cooing about it again.

Madam

What is an IRA 'outfit'?

Happyman42

jazz101 wrote: »

There are pictures of him in IRA outfit at IRA funerals, after the period in which he claims to have left the IRA. There are numerous instances of numerous people claiming to have acted on his orders, people whose other contribution to clarifying the picture of the IRA has been invaluable.

I said 'evidence'. And I have never seen an IRA 'outfit' that anybody could be identified in. :rolleyes:

And he constantly pushes for a referendum on a UI. Hell just last September he was cooing about it again.

What is the problem with that? Have you just landed from Mars? A United Ireland is kinda core to SF, or am I missing something?

jazz101

Happyman42 wrote: »

I said 'evidence'. And I have never seen an IRA 'outfit' that anybody could be identified in. :rolleyes:



What is the problem with that? Have you just landed from Mars? A United Ireland is kinda core to SF, or am I missing something?

That would be the beret and gloves that every IRA member wore traditionally of the time at funerals of fellow members.



And the point about the UI referendum, which seems to have gone over your head, is that he constantly pushes the government even in our most turbulent economic times for a UI referendum. Of course Adams cares about the fact that he would come out of a successful UI referendum in his lifetime looking pretty damn good. He dreams about it.

junder

Happyman42 wrote: »

Look, if you have evidence he was in the IRA, please produce it or retract. How many years since the GFA and not one shred of evidence from military intelligence or anywhere else, just the opinions of journalists (a body of people who have never gotten anything wrong or who have not represented vested interests)

And eh, shock-horror....a politician with goals?
p.s. he has also said many times that reunification is unlikely in his lifetime.

And how do you know what the extent of information military intelligence has on Adams?

Happyman42

jazz101 wrote: »

That would be the beret and gloves that every IRA member wore traditionally of the time at funerals of fellow members.

Sinn Fein honour guards have always worn black berets to funerals. That's not evidence.

And the point about the UI referendum, which seems to have gone over your head, is that he constantly pushes the government even in our most turbulent economic times for a UI referendum. Of course Adams cares about the fact that he would come out of a successful UI referendum in his lifetime looking pretty damn good. He dreams about it.

Of course he would 'look good' and probably feel pretty 'good' too. It's a fairly ridiculous thing to ask him to put aside a primary political aspiration.

SoulandForm

Jazz honestly that is pretty poor proof. There are things you could have brought up that are much stronger evidence.

Happyman42

junder wrote: »

And how do you know what the extent of information military intelligence has on Adams?

Wouldn't you think that they would have some? How come he was never arrested and charged if 'everyone' is so sure?


p.s. I don't know whether he was or not, but I fail to see the relevance whether he was or not. What difference does it make?

junder

Happyman42 wrote: »

Wouldn't you think that they would have some? How come he was never arrested and charged if 'everyone' is so sure?


p.s. I don't know whether he was or not, but I fail to see the relevance whether he was or not. What difference does it make?

Military intel is not always admissible in courts, moreover intel is not always realeased if they are protecting a source, indeed there is even speculation that Adams could be the very source that needs protected either way there are numerous reasons why intelligence is not realeased

Happyman42

junder wrote: »

Military intel is not always admissible in courts, moreover intel is not always realeased if they are protecting a source, indeed there is even speculation that Adams could be the very source that needs protected either way there are numerous reasons why intelligence is not realeased

So, no evidence. And nothing the British, (who where at war with the IRA) thought enough of to imprison the man for.

kabakuyu

jazz101 wrote: »

That would be the beret and gloves that every IRA member wore traditionally of the time at funerals of fellow members.



And the point about the UI referendum, which seems to have gone over your head, is that he constantly pushes the government even in our most turbulent economic times for a UI referendum. Of course Adams cares about the fact that he would come out of a successful UI referendum in his lifetime looking pretty damn good. He dreams about it.

There were hundreds of beret wearing people at lansdowne road today.

NIMAN

Well that photo proves it all, I can't understand why he wasn't charged and put away for life on the clear evidence in that photo.

The man's wearing a black tie and beret, surely that is enough evidence and will stand up in court?

Chuck Stone

NIMAN wrote: »

The man's wearing a black ... beret,

It's actually really, really, really, dark blue and that's why he was never charged.